20:59:31 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #indie-ui
20:59:32 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-indie-ui-irc
20:59:33 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
20:59:35 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be INDIE
20:59:35 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see WAI_Indie()5:00PM already started
20:59:36 <trackbot> Meeting: Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference
20:59:36 <trackbot> Date: 10 April 2013
20:59:37 <janina> Meeting: IndieUI Task Force Teleconference
20:59:37 <janina> Chair: Janina_Sajka
20:59:37 <janina> agenda+ Editor's Update
20:59:37 <janina> agenda+ Proposed Key Value Pair Approach http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Mar/0029.html
20:59:40 <janina> agenda+ User Context, Media Queries, CSS, and the IDPF http://w3c-test.org/csswg/mediaqueries3/
20:59:43 <janina> agenda+ User Context Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/3
20:59:46 <janina> agenda+ Events Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/2
20:59:49 <janina> agenda+ Privacy and Security: The cases for exposing AT
20:59:52 <janina> agenda+ Renaming POR: Open Discussion
20:59:54 <janina> agenda+ Scribe for our Next Teleconference (on 3 April at 21:00Z)
20:59:57 <janina> agenda+ Be Done
20:59:59 <janina>  Thanks, Ted!
21:00:08 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
21:00:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0
21:00:11 <Zakim> +Rich_Simpson
21:00:17 <janina> zakim, ??P0 is Janina_Sajka
21:00:17 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
21:01:01 <Zakim> +??P2
21:01:33 <jcraig> jcraig has joined #indie-ui
21:01:40 <janina> zakim, agenda?
21:01:40 <Zakim> I see 19 items remaining on the agenda:
21:01:41 <Zakim> 1. Editor's Update [from janina]
21:01:41 <Zakim> 2. Upcoming Teleconference Time Shifts Redux [from janina]
21:01:41 <Zakim> 3. Prospects for a F2F at TPAC 2013 [from janina]
21:01:41 <Zakim> 4. Proposed Key Value Pair Approach http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Mar/0029.html [from janina]
21:01:42 <Zakim> 5. Events Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/2 [from janina]
21:01:42 <Zakim> 6. User Context Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/3 [from janina]
21:01:42 <Zakim> 7. Privacy and Security: The cases for exposing AT [from janina]
21:01:42 <Zakim> 8. Renaming POR: Open Discussion [from janina]
21:01:43 <Zakim> 9. Scribe for our Next Teleconference (on 3 April at 21:00Z) [from janina]
21:01:43 <Zakim> 10. Be Done [from janina]
21:01:43 <Zakim> 11. Editor's Update [from janina]
21:01:43 <Zakim> 12. Proposed Key Value Pair Approach http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Mar/0029.html [from janina]
21:01:44 <Zakim> 13. User Context, Media Queries, CSS, and the IDPF http://w3c-test.org/csswg/mediaqueries3/ [from janina]
21:01:44 <Zakim> 14. User Context Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/3 [from janina]
21:01:44 <Zakim> 15. Events Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/2 [from janina]
21:01:44 <Zakim> 16. Privacy and Security: The cases for exposing AT [from janina]
21:01:44 <Zakim> 17. Renaming POR: Open Discussion [from janina]
21:01:46 <Zakim> 18. Scribe for our Next Teleconference (on 3 April at 21:00Z) [from janina]
21:01:46 <Zakim> 19. Be Done [from janina]
21:02:04 <Zakim> +[Apple]
21:02:07 <andy> andy has joined #indie-ui
21:02:13 <jcraig> Zakim, Apple has jcraig
21:02:13 <Zakim> +jcraig; got it
21:02:25 <jcraig> Zakim, who is on the phone?
21:02:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see Janina_Sajka, Rich_Simpson, ??P2, [Apple]
21:02:27 <Zakim> [Apple] has jcraig
21:02:45 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #indie-ui
21:02:55 <jcraig> Zakim, ??P2 is Jason_White
21:02:55 <Zakim> +Jason_White; got it
21:02:58 <Zakim> +??P4
21:03:17 <jcraig> Zakim, ??P4 is Andy_Heath
21:03:17 <Zakim> +Andy_Heath; got it
21:03:28 <Zakim> +Rich.a
21:04:01 <janina> zakim, drop item 1
21:04:01 <Zakim> agendum 1, Editor's Update, dropped
21:04:06 <janina> zakim, drop item 2
21:04:06 <Zakim> agendum 2, Upcoming Teleconference Time Shifts Redux, dropped
21:04:08 <janina> zakim, drop item 3
21:04:08 <Zakim> agendum 3, Prospects for a F2F at TPAC 2013, dropped
21:04:09 <janina> zakim, drop item 4
21:04:09 <Zakim> agendum 4, Proposed Key Value Pair Approach http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Mar/0029.html, dropped
21:04:12 <janina> zakim, drop item 5
21:04:12 <Zakim> agendum 5, Events Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/2, dropped
21:04:14 <janina> zakim, drop item 6
21:04:14 <Zakim> agendum 6, User Context Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/3, dropped
21:04:15 <janina> zakim, drop item 7
21:04:15 <Zakim> agendum 7, Privacy and Security: The cases for exposing AT, dropped
21:04:18 <janina> zakim, drop item 8
21:04:18 <Zakim> agendum 8, Renaming POR: Open Discussion, dropped
21:04:23 <janina> zakim, agenda?
21:04:23 <Zakim> I see 11 items remaining on the agenda:
21:04:24 <Zakim> 9. Scribe for our Next Teleconference (on 3 April at 21:00Z) [from janina]
21:04:24 <Zakim> 10. Be Done [from janina]
21:04:24 <Zakim> 11. Editor's Update [from janina]
21:04:24 <Zakim> 12. Proposed Key Value Pair Approach http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Mar/0029.html [from janina]
21:04:24 <Zakim> 13. User Context, Media Queries, CSS, and the IDPF http://w3c-test.org/csswg/mediaqueries3/ [from janina]
21:04:26 <Zakim> 14. User Context Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/3 [from janina]
21:04:26 <Zakim> 15. Events Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/2 [from janina]
21:04:26 <Zakim> 16. Privacy and Security: The cases for exposing AT [from janina]
21:04:26 <Zakim> 17. Renaming POR: Open Discussion [from janina]
21:04:27 <Zakim> 18. Scribe for our Next Teleconference (on 3 April at 21:00Z) [from janina]
21:04:27 <Zakim> 19. Be Done [from janina]
21:04:37 <janina> zakim, drop 9
21:04:37 <Zakim> sorry, janina, I do not see a party named '9'
21:04:43 <janina> zakim, drop item 9
21:04:43 <Zakim> agendum 9, Scribe for our Next Teleconference (on 3 April at 21:00Z), dropped
21:04:46 <janina> zakim, drop item 10
21:04:46 <Zakim> agendum 10, Be Done, dropped
21:04:49 <janina> zakim, agenda?
21:04:49 <Zakim> I see 9 items remaining on the agenda:
21:04:50 <Zakim> 11. Editor's Update [from janina]
21:04:50 <Zakim> 12. Proposed Key Value Pair Approach http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Mar/0029.html [from janina]
21:04:50 <Zakim> 13. User Context, Media Queries, CSS, and the IDPF http://w3c-test.org/csswg/mediaqueries3/ [from janina]
21:04:50 <Zakim> 14. User Context Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/3 [from janina]
21:04:51 <Zakim> 15. Events Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/2 [from janina]
21:04:51 <Zakim> 16. Privacy and Security: The cases for exposing AT [from janina]
21:04:51 <Zakim> 17. Renaming POR: Open Discussion [from janina]
21:04:51 <Zakim> 18. Scribe for our Next Teleconference (on 3 April at 21:00Z) [from janina]
21:04:51 <Zakim> 19. Be Done [from janina]
21:05:07 <richardschwerdtfeger> agenda?
21:07:07 <Zakim> +??P6
21:08:15 <jasonjgw> James: still planning to separate clearly those items in User Contexts that correspond to operating system settings. Other minor changes have been made.
21:08:56 <jasonjgw> Andy raises the question of how to draw the distinction, given differences between settings available on different systems.
21:10:39 <jasonjgw> James: suggests prefixing each item with "setting" or "preference"; "setting" would mean that the item is on at the moment, e.g., that colour inversion is active already. The application need not respond to this. The related preference would be light on dark or the inverse, to which the application would respond with style sheet changes.
21:10:59 <richardschwerdtfeger> q+
21:13:56 <jasonjgw> This is a response to the objection that having such parallel keys (inverse and light/dark) is confusing.
21:15:02 <jasonjgw> In response to discussion: the preference is needed for captions, for example, where the native caption format is not supported by the Web application.
21:15:14 <janina> q?
21:15:18 <andy> q+
21:15:18 <richardschwerdtfeger> q
21:15:19 <janina> ack ri
21:15:22 <richardschwerdtfeger> q
21:15:25 <richardschwerdtfeger> q
21:15:29 <richardschwerdtfeger> q_
21:15:34 <richardschwerdtfeger> q-
21:18:27 <jasonjgw> After discussion: it is noted that there are difficulties that arise when there are both settings and preferences (e.g., for captions) and each may be true in different circumstances.
21:19:51 <jasonjgw> Example: HTML 5 video player that doesn't use one of the available timed text formats. Janina and James discuss this and related cases that may arise in an HTML 5 environment to delineate the use case clearly.
21:21:48 <jasonjgw> Janina notes that regulatory requirements may impose uniformity upon the implementation of captions/descriptions/video requirements, shifting away from proprietary implementations of such features.
21:22:25 <jasonjgw> James: in that case we could specify captions as a setting, not a preference.
21:24:21 <jcraig> s/we could specify captions as a setting, not a preference./let's specify captions as a setting only, not a secondary preference./
21:25:21 <jasonjgw> zakim, next item
21:25:21 <Zakim> agendum 11. "Editor's Update" taken up [from janina]
21:25:36 <MichaelC> zakim, close this item
21:25:36 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, MichaelC
21:25:39 <MichaelC> q?
21:25:44 <MichaelC> q- andy
21:25:47 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
21:25:47 <Zakim> agendum 11 was just opened, MichaelC
21:25:51 <MichaelC> zakim, close this item
21:25:51 <Zakim> agendum 11 closed
21:25:52 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
21:25:52 <Zakim> 12. Proposed Key Value Pair Approach http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Mar/0029.html [from janina]
21:25:54 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
21:25:54 <Zakim> agendum 12. "Proposed Key Value Pair Approach http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2013Mar/0029.html" taken up [from janina]
21:27:45 <jasonjgw> Michael has no further remarks to make, other than to note that inference derivation need not be closely connected to the lexical form of the preferences.
21:29:02 <jasonjgw> He suggests taking this discussion to the detailed level.
21:29:26 <jasonjgw> Andy raises the issue of how well this scheme corresponds to the properties defined by other existing and emerging specifications.
21:30:53 <jasonjgw> Michael clarifies that the use of key-value pairs (or not) doesn't affect the vocabulary and therefore shouldn't influence the viability of mapping our properties to those defined elsewhere.
21:31:47 <jasonjgw> Andy proposes to consider the consequences of this change further.
21:33:18 <jasonjgw> Michael clarifies that the proposal changes syntax, not the technical content - in particular, not the question of which properties are included in 1.0.
21:34:48 <jasonjgw> Janina raises the question of scheduling the next meeting.
21:36:11 <jasonjgw> There is a widespread preference for 1 May.
21:36:42 <MichaelC> action: Andy to review user preferences for implications of key-value pair proposal
21:36:42 <trackbot> Created ACTION-49 - Review user preferences for implications of key-value pair proposal [on Andy Heath - due 2013-04-17].
21:37:39 <jasonjgw> zakim, next itme
21:37:40 <Zakim> I don't understand 'next itme', jasonjgw
21:37:51 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
21:37:51 <Zakim> agendum 13. "User Context, Media Queries, CSS, and the IDPF http://w3c-test.org/csswg/mediaqueries3/" taken up [from janina]
21:40:36 <jasonjgw> Janina notes the recent engagement of the e-publishing industry in the development of HTML 5 and recent meetings identifying their requirements.
21:41:25 <jasonjgw> This led to suggestions (reflecting prior proposals from the accessibility community) for CSS to reflect users' colour contrast preferences, e.g., for night-time reading of an e-published book.
21:42:10 <jasonjgw> An inverted colours setting would need to be different according to context (e.g., image vs. surrounding text).
21:42:38 <jasonjgw> Janina will cite the minutes of the relevant meeting when they become available.
21:44:04 <jasonjgw> James recalls additional media queries' being proposed by PF.
21:44:21 <jasonjgw> Janina notes that further steps need to be taken with respect to this proposal.
21:45:14 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
21:45:19 <jasonjgw> James notes a new draft of CSS Media Queries and acknowledges overlap with the User Preferences; items supported by Media Queries (contrast settings for example) need not be duplicated in the User Preferences spec.
21:45:48 <jasonjgw> He suggests that the privacy issues would be different in the case of media queries and there might be greater uptake.
21:46:18 <andy> q+
21:46:29 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
21:46:53 <jasonjgw> He clarifies that it's possible to change CSS properties based on the queries and it might (but this needs to be checked) allow a notification to be given to the application when a boundary is reached.
21:47:06 <Zakim> +Cooper
21:47:45 <MichaelC> q+
21:47:48 <jasonjgw> Rich notes the use case of changes in lighting conditions that require the device to modify contrast settings; this should be supported either in media queries or a notification to the Web application.
21:48:36 <jasonjgw> James notes that if the result of the media query changes, the CSS properties are updated.
21:49:36 <MichaelC> ack a
21:50:08 <jasonjgw> James clarifies in response to a question from Andy that changes in environmental conditions, detected by the device, could result in property changes by virtue of a CSS media query.
21:50:48 <Zakim> +??P0
21:51:03 <Zakim> -??P0
21:52:11 <jasonjgw> James suggests preparing a proposed list of items that should be taken up in media queries. These would be matters that can be well handled in CSS and would not then be duplicated in User Contexts.
21:52:54 <jasonjgw> Michael suggests inquiring with the CSS WG as to which items should be covered by media queries and which in User Contexts; active dialogue is reuired.
21:54:11 <jasonjgw> He notes that there are needs/preferences that can obviously be treated as media queries and others which are less clear; these need to be discussed.
21:54:19 <MichaelC> action: james to prepare a list of user context properties that might be able to be covered by media queries
21:54:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-50 - Prepare a list of user context properties that might be able to be covered by media queries [on James Craig - due 2013-04-17].
21:54:26 <jasonjgw> James proposes to draw up a preliminary list for media queries.
21:54:53 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #indie-ui
21:56:49 <jasonjgw> James notes font size and contrast as the obvious candidates for media queries.
21:57:23 <jcraig> http://w3c-test.org/csswg/mediaqueries3/
22:00:00 <Zakim> -[Apple]
22:00:02 <Zakim> -Rich.a
22:00:02 <jcraig> jcraig has left #indie-ui
22:00:04 <rich_simpson_> rich_simpson_ has left #indie-ui
22:00:04 <Zakim> -Cooper
22:00:09 <Zakim> -Rich_Simpson
22:00:10 <jasonjgw> Michael notes that a call for agenda will be issued by 26 April; participants should propose items for discussion at the meeting.
22:00:11 <Zakim> -Andy_Heath
22:00:31 <MichaelC> zakim, list attendees
22:00:31 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Rich_Simpson, Janina_Sajka, jcraig, Jason_White, Andy_Heath, Rich, Michael_Cooper, Cooper
22:00:40 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
22:00:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/04/10-indie-ui-minutes.html MichaelC
22:01:15 <Zakim> -Jason_White
22:01:16 <Zakim> WAI_Indie()5:00PM has ended
22:01:16 <Zakim> Attendees were Rich_Simpson, Janina_Sajka, jcraig, Jason_White, Andy_Heath, Rich, Michael_Cooper, Cooper