IRC log of prov on 2013-04-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:40:16 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #prov
14:40:16 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:40:18 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:40:18 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #prov
14:40:20 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be PROV
14:40:20 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 20 minutes
14:40:21 [trackbot]
Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:40:21 [trackbot]
Date: 04 April 2013
14:50:38 [dgarijo]
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14:53:45 [TallTed]
TallTed has changed the topic to: Provenance WG -- -- agenda
14:55:14 [Zakim]
SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
14:55:21 [Zakim]
14:55:23 [pgroth]
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14:55:36 [pgroth]
trackbot, start telcon
14:55:38 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:55:40 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be PROV
14:55:40 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM already started
14:55:41 [trackbot]
Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:55:41 [trackbot]
Date: 04 April 2013
14:55:43 [pgroth]
Zakim, this will be PROV
14:55:44 [Zakim]
ok, pgroth, I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM already started
14:56:19 [pgroth]
14:56:30 [pgroth]
Chair: Paul Groth
14:56:37 [pgroth]
rrsagent, make logs public
14:56:38 [GK-ALT]
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14:56:42 [pgroth]
zakim, who is on the call?
14:56:42 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [IPcaller]
14:56:50 [pgroth]
Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
14:56:50 [Zakim]
+pgroth; got it
14:57:16 [Zakim]
14:57:19 [christine]
christine has joined #prov
14:58:06 [Paolo]
Paolo has joined #prov
14:58:08 [GK]
GK has joined #prov
14:58:49 [Zakim]
14:59:15 [pgroth]
can anyone scribe?
14:59:17 [christine]
Zakim, [IPcaller.a] is christine
14:59:17 [Zakim]
+christine; got it
14:59:33 [Zakim]
14:59:37 [jun]
jun has joined #prov
14:59:48 [Zakim]
14:59:49 [GK]
zakim, ??p6 is me
14:59:51 [Zakim]
+GK; got it
14:59:51 [smiles]
smiles has joined #prov
14:59:56 [dgarijo]
Zakim, ??P10 is me
14:59:56 [Zakim]
+dgarijo; got it
15:00:13 [pgroth]
scribe: christine
15:00:25 [Luc_]
Luc_ has joined #prov
15:00:31 [Zakim]
15:00:32 [Zakim]
+ +1.661.748.aaaa
15:00:46 [pgroth]
Zakim, who is on the call?
15:00:46 [Zakim]
On the phone I see pgroth, [IPcaller], christine, GK, dgarijo, [IPcaller.a], +1.661.748.aaaa
15:00:50 [khalidBelhajjame]
khalidBelhajjame has joined #prov
15:00:53 [stain]
zakim, « and » is me
15:00:53 [Zakim]
I don't understand '« and » is me', stain
15:00:56 [stain]
15:01:00 [Zakim]
15:01:12 [smiles]
zakim, +1.661.748.aaaa is me
15:01:12 [Zakim]
+smiles; got it
15:01:13 [Luc_]
zakim, +[IPcaller.aa] is me
15:01:13 [Zakim]
sorry, Luc_, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller.aa]'
15:01:17 [stain]
zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
15:01:17 [Zakim]
+stain; got it
15:01:22 [Zakim]
15:01:22 [pgroth]
Topic: Admin
15:01:28 [Luc_]
zakim, [IPcaller.aa] is me
15:01:28 [Zakim]
+Luc_; got it
15:01:29 [pgroth]
15:01:36 [pgroth]
Minutes of March 28, 2013 Telcon
15:01:41 [dgarijo]
15:01:45 [christine]
Vote on minutes of last week
15:01:48 [satya]
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15:01:48 [khalidBelhajjame]
15:01:51 [GK]
15:01:58 [smiles]
15:02:01 [khalidBelhajjame]
zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
15:02:02 [stain]
15:02:03 [Zakim]
+khalidBelhajjame; got it
15:02:23 [Zakim]
15:02:26 [Paolo]
15:02:26 [pgroth]
accepted: Minutes of March 28, 2013 Telcon
15:02:33 [hook]
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15:02:38 [Zakim]
+ +1.818.731.aabb
15:02:38 [christine]
Review of Open Action Items
15:02:48 [christine]
Update to editorial (for Paul)
15:02:49 [Zakim]
15:02:54 [ivan]
zakim, code?
15:02:54 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7768 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, ivan
15:02:59 [christine]
Closed - Graham took care of this
15:03:14 [Zakim]
15:03:16 [TallTed]
Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
15:03:16 [Zakim]
+TallTed; got it
15:03:18 [TallTed]
Zakim, mute me
15:03:18 [Zakim]
TallTed should now be muted
15:03:21 [christine]
Blog post action items are also closed
15:03:38 [pgroth]
Topic: AC Rep Reminder
15:03:52 [pgroth]
15:04:01 [christine]
Results of current voting see link above
15:04:07 [christine]
16 votes so far
15:04:25 [christine]
Quite good. It would be good to have more votes.
15:04:43 [christine]
Still waiting for some replies. We may get up to 19 votes by next week.
15:04:56 [TomDN]
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15:04:58 [Zakim]
15:05:06 [TomDN]
Zakim, mute me
15:05:06 [Zakim]
TomDN should now be muted
15:05:09 [christine]
Paul: Please make sure your AC Reps vote.
15:05:12 [pgroth]
15:05:14 [pgroth]
15:05:25 [pgroth]
Topic: Blog Posts
15:05:33 [pgroth]
15:05:40 [pgroth]
15:05:43 [christine]
Paul: 2 blog posts in the last week - see links above
15:05:59 [zednik]
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15:06:13 [dgarijo]
15:06:16 [stain]
15:06:29 [christine]
Thanks to Daniel and Stain for two additional blog posts
15:06:34 [dgarijo]
no problem :)
15:06:35 [christine]
They will be posted in the next week
15:06:50 [jcheney]
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15:06:59 [Zakim]
15:07:03 [pgroth]
15:07:04 [SamCoppens]
SamCoppens has joined #prov
15:07:05 [christine]
Paul: review of outstanding items
15:07:23 [SamCoppens]
zakim, I am with TomDN
15:07:23 [Zakim]
+SamCoppens; got it
15:07:25 [Zakim]
15:07:25 [Zakim]
15:07:26 [pgroth]
15:07:27 [christine]
Paul: is PROV-SEM ready to be sent out for review?
15:07:35 [jcheney]
just tried calling in will try again
15:07:46 [jcheney]
15:07:47 [christine]
Moving to another item
15:07:50 [pgroth]
Topic: PROV-Overview
15:08:17 [christine]
Paul: Not ready - edits not finished - more time needed - hopefully can sent out by Monday of next week
15:08:22 [pgroth]
15:08:45 [pgroth]
15:08:46 [Zakim]
15:08:59 [jcheney]
zakim, +[ipcaller.aa] is me
15:08:59 [Zakim]
sorry, jcheney, I do not recognize a party named '+[ipcaller.aa]'
15:09:01 [christine]
Update from Stephen
15:09:05 [jcheney]
zakim, aa is me
15:09:05 [Zakim]
sorry, jcheney, I do not recognize a party named 'aa'
15:09:08 [jcheney]
zakim, aa] is me
15:09:08 [Zakim]
sorry, jcheney, I do not recognize a party named 'aa]'
15:09:13 [jcheney]
zakim, [ipcaller.aa] is me
15:09:13 [Zakim]
+jcheney; got it
15:09:24 [christine]
Stephen: is ready for review but is missing the FAQ entry
15:09:38 [christine]
but the note content is ready for review
15:09:48 [Luc_]
15:09:51 [christine]
Paul: is the schema finalised?
15:10:21 [christine]
Stephen: yes but FAQ may introduce a modification to the new schema but not a change to the schema - so my intention that it is finalised
15:10:29 [christine]
Paul: review by what date?
15:10:54 [christine]
Stephen: staged last night - not sure
15:11:10 [christine]
Paul: original reviews by 4 and changes by 15
15:11:29 [christine]
Paul: if reviewed by 11 can you incorporate changes by 15
15:11:52 [christine]
Stephen: hope so - small changes ok - but 11th and 15th should work
15:11:59 [christine]
Paul: reviewer?
15:12:03 [Luc_]
15:12:16 [pgroth]
15:12:22 [TomDN]
15:12:45 [christine]
Paul: any responses from our last publication of it?
15:12:57 [christine]
? from Luc
15:13:18 [christine]
Paul: will try to get someone from Oracle to take a look
15:13:58 [christine]
and would be good for Henry to review
15:14:10 [pgroth]
15:14:28 [pgroth]
Topic: PROV-AQ
15:14:34 [SamCoppens]
zakim, unmute me
15:14:34 [Zakim]
sorry, SamCoppens, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
15:14:52 [SamCoppens]
My review is following tonight
15:15:06 [christine]
Graham: we have reviews in now from Stain and Luc - not one from Sam yet - had a cursory look at the review - not aware of any blocker there
15:15:09 [SamCoppens]
but no blocking issues from my side
15:15:50 [christine]
Graham: plan to review in detail in the coming week and finalise the document by this time next week - and then aim to hand over to Paul to finish up as will be out of circulation in 2 weeks time
15:16:05 [christine]
Paul: Stain and Luc, could we vote to be a final note?
15:16:08 [Luc_]
15:16:45 [SamCoppens]
zakim, unmute TomDN
15:16:45 [Zakim]
TomDN should no longer be muted
15:16:49 [pgroth]
ack Luc_
15:17:15 [SamCoppens]
15:17:21 [christine]
Luc: we want to publish the note - some comments are more serious than Graham said - related to ping back - would like to see some responses to my comments
15:17:23 [pgroth]
ack SamCoppens
15:17:40 [christine]
Sam: read the document today - will send review tonight - no blocking issues
15:17:48 [stain]
15:17:51 [GK]
I'll need to look in more detail at Luc;s comments, and the others - I'll respond when I do so.
15:18:10 [pgroth]
ack stain
15:18:27 [christine]
Stain: no blocking issues but some of my issues are more serious
15:18:32 [SamCoppens]
zakim, mute TomDN
15:18:32 [Zakim]
TomDN should now be muted
15:18:44 [christine]
Paul: then let's wait for next week for the vote
15:19:06 [christine]
to ensure issues are addressed before vote
15:19:06 [jcheney]
15:19:15 [pgroth]
ack jcheney
15:19:29 [christine]
James: need reviewers for PROV-SEM
15:19:48 [pgroth]
15:19:56 [jcheney]
draft almost done:
15:20:05 [GK]
I'd like to review PROV-SEM, but cannot be sure I'll have time in the coming week.
15:20:38 [christine]
James: vote on everything next week?
15:20:45 [christine]
Paul: yes (if not today)
15:21:16 [christine]
James: better if reviewers can look now rather than waiting for it to be completely done
15:21:22 [khalidBelhajjame]
I ll review it
15:21:23 [TomDN]
Zakim, unmute me
15:21:23 [Zakim]
TomDN should no longer be muted
15:21:26 [TomDN]
15:21:32 [christine]
Paul: reviewers
15:21:33 [pgroth]
ack TomDN
15:21:55 [smiles]
I can review it
15:21:55 [christine]
Tom: a colleague (logic/maths background) and Tom will review
15:22:00 [Paolo]
when is it due again?
15:22:02 [GK]
I'd like to review PROV-SEM, but cannot be sure I'll have time in the coming week
15:22:06 [TomDN]
Zakim, mute me
15:22:06 [Zakim]
TomDN should now be muted
15:22:09 [christine]
Paul: review due by next Thursday
15:22:24 [Paolo]
would love to but on leave, sorry...
15:22:48 [Luc_]
15:22:48 [satya]
I will try to complete
15:22:53 [christine]
James: goal to have something complete - anything controversial will have to be left out
15:23:10 [pgroth]
ack Luc_
15:23:28 [christine]
Luc: What change has been regarding this issue [?]
15:24:11 [christine]
James: to get semantics general enough to not constrain the formal constraints - less of the connection to the inituitve model but necessary
15:24:27 [christine]
James: takes a while to figure out the right way to do that
15:24:33 [pgroth]
reviewers - Tom, Khalid, (tom's colleague), simon, satya,
15:24:41 [Luc_]
+1 will attempt a quick review
15:24:53 [pgroth]
Topic: PROV-Primer
15:25:14 [christine]
Simon: received some reviews - only outstanding is from Craig
15:25:34 [christine]
Simon: don't see any blocking issues - will make the changes by next week - timeframe is okay
15:25:36 [pgroth]
15:25:42 [khalidBelhajjame]
It read well, no comment really
15:26:01 [christine]
Paul: agree, only a need for some minor changes
15:26:07 [christine]
Paul: vote now
15:26:25 [pgroth]
proposed: release prov-primer as a final note
15:26:28 [ivan]
15:26:31 [khalidBelhajjame]
15:26:32 [GK]
15:26:36 [jcheney]
15:26:37 [zednik]
15:26:38 [satya]
15:26:39 [TomDN]
15:26:40 [dgarijo]
15:26:41 [hook]
15:26:42 [stain]
15:26:55 [SamCoppens]
15:27:01 [Paolo]
15:27:12 [Luc_]
15:27:22 [pgroth]
accepted: release prov-primer as a final note
15:27:30 [smiles]
Great, thanks :)
15:27:37 [pgroth]
Topic: PROV-DC
15:27:38 [christine]
Paul: congrats Simon and Yolanda
15:28:01 [christine]
- received a couple of reviews - no blocking issues
15:28:06 [stain]
15:28:09 [christine]
- missing a review by Stain
15:28:27 [pgroth]
ack stain
15:28:43 [christine]
Stain: almost finished - some changes re mapping but should be able to be done in the week
15:28:53 [christine]
Paul: given that, do not want to vote now
15:29:04 [christine]
Paul: Tom's review was very long. What was the main issue?
15:29:49 [christine]
- issue with how we declare the classes - specialising the ontology and also a lot of editorial issues with intro and also with naming spaces - no criticism of the mapppings - so i think no blocking issues
15:29:59 [christine]
Paul: Stain, which mapping to change?
15:30:05 [christine]
Stain: the is version
15:31:10 [christine]
- analysed defns and realised they are equivalent - version and revisions {/}
15:31:57 [christine]
- not necessarily a directional element - don't want to go into the detail now
15:32:06 [christine]
Paul: only one?
15:32:10 [christine]
- yes
15:32:15 [pgroth]
15:32:22 [christine]
Paul: debate the issue online and delay the vote to next week
15:32:31 [TomDN]
Zakim, unmute me
15:32:31 [Zakim]
TomDN should no longer be muted
15:32:33 [pgroth]
Topic: PROV-Dictionary
15:33:08 [pgroth]
15:33:08 [Luc_]
15:33:17 [christine]
Craig: review from Luc and Simon, thanks, no blocking issues, have enough time, give an update next week, do not forsee problems
15:33:18 [Luc_]
15:33:20 [TomDN]
15:33:27 [pgroth]
ack Luc_
15:34:07 [christine]
Luc: in my review, indicated I have implemented PROV-Dictionary, but it turns out it was not working - it took a while to find problem - extensibility production and the new productions conflict
15:34:37 [christine]
Luc: problem will also occur in PROV-LINKS
15:34:47 [Luc_]
15:35:07 [christine]
Luc: fix in both
15:35:11 [Luc_]
15:35:17 [pgroth]
ack TomDN
15:35:21 [pgroth]
ack Luc_
15:35:24 [christine]
Craig: suggest holding off on voting until the document is in a more final state
15:35:38 [christine]
Craig = Tom
15:35:38 [pgroth]
15:35:47 [pgroth]
15:35:54 [christine]
Luc: agree useful to have time to discuss issues further
15:36:03 [pgroth]
15:36:16 [pgroth]
Topic: PROV-Links
15:36:19 [TomDN]
Zakim, mute me
15:36:19 [Zakim]
TomDN should now be muted
15:36:44 [zednik]
I have to leave now
15:36:56 [christine]
Luc: 4 reviews received - thank you - have not had time to read them in detail - but you seem to be happy with the document - some small changes
15:37:00 [smiles]
No blocking issues from me
15:37:04 [Zakim]
15:37:06 [pgroth]
15:37:06 [TomDN]
none from me either
15:37:08 [GK]
No blockers that I recall
15:37:12 [khalidBelhajjame]
No bloking issues from me either
15:37:21 [pgroth]
Topic: PROV Implementations
15:38:20 [christine]
Paul: held it open a little longer - nothing to change in the text - just to rerun scripts to update the tables (essentially) - no need to review
15:38:22 [ivan]
15:38:28 [Luc_]
15:38:45 [christine]
Paul: one or two people who said they want to register another implementation
15:38:59 [pgroth]
15:38:59 [christine]
Paul: there is still time
15:39:28 [pgroth]
Topic: Provenance of Docs
15:39:35 [Luc_]
15:39:36 [christine]
Paul: status?
15:39:48 [Luc_]
15:39:57 [Luc_]
15:40:01 [Luc_]
15:40:26 [christine]
Luc: tried to recreate the history of all our documents assuming the specs were out
15:40:43 [ivan]
15:40:57 [GK]
Third link returns "error: provenance/test/prov-family.provn@e1fa26593295: not found in manifest" for me
15:41:25 [christine]
Luc: covering all versions of the reports we publish - will ask all editors to check when finalised - also should add authorship - do we have URIs for everybody?
15:41:56 [christine]
Paul: Ivan, can we use URLs for the name in the tracker to represent people?
15:42:11 [Paolo]
@Luc: provn version, I get: error: provenance/test/prov-family.provn@e1fa26593295: not found in manifest
15:42:26 [GK]
How many of us have ORCID IDs?
15:42:31 [pgroth]
15:42:34 [christine]
Ivan: hmm, it can be used ... but ... often people put a page about themselves on the wiki ... can you give me an example URL to look at in tracker?
15:42:54 [christine]
Ivan: not ideal
15:43:08 [TallTed]
WebID! :-)
15:43:09 [stain]
you would have hoped for W3C to provide an ontology or dataset of every member!
15:43:13 [christine]
Paul: wiki user pages?
15:43:19 [pgroth]
15:43:19 [Luc_]
15:43:20 [christine]
Ivan: not sure those are public
15:43:33 [dgarijo]
dgarijo has joined #prov
15:43:38 [christine]
Ivan: what I was suggesting - if they are all complete that is fine
15:43:48 [christine]
Ivan: they will be frozen
15:43:53 [stain]
in foaf they might or might not be seen to represent accounts rather than people..
15:44:09 [pgroth]
15:44:14 [pgroth]
ack Luc_
15:44:14 [christine]
Paul: use wiki ones - so if you want your proper info recorded update your wiki page
15:44:19 [christine]
Luc: fine with that
15:44:44 [stain]
it might be easiest to identify people like [ a prov:Person, foaf:homepage <> ]
15:45:09 [stain]
foaf:homepage is inverse functional, thus identifying (but not being) the person
15:45:19 [christine]
[?] useful to add the link from the RDF files ...
15:45:20 [pgroth]
15:45:31 [pgroth]
15:45:42 [pgroth]
15:45:44 [christine]
Paul: can we do content negotation on SVG?
15:46:02 [christine]
Ivan: not exactly - not a serialisation
15:46:06 [Luc_]
15:46:12 [pgroth]
ack pgroth
15:46:17 [pgroth]
ack Luc_
15:46:44 [christine]
Luc: when the file is more or less finalised - post a blog explaining provenance - could put the SVG file there
15:47:02 [pgroth]
15:47:04 [stain]
you COULD define a prov-diagram that is a formal language that says how to describe prov-dm as a diagram - and then the SVG could still be a representation of the provenance
15:47:09 [TallTed]
possibly better pages than wiki -- e.g.,
15:47:11 [christine]
Ivan: could point to as wekk
15:47:24 [pgroth]
15:47:30 [stain]
TallTed: except they are seeecret :(
15:47:37 [pgroth]
15:47:39 [TallTed]
Zakim, unmute me
15:47:39 [Zakim]
TallTed should no longer be muted
15:47:53 [smiles]
15:47:56 [TomDN]
I get Sorry, Insufficient Access Privileges
15:47:59 [GK]
No, browser is asking for login
15:48:08 [pgroth]
ack smiles
15:48:24 [Luc_]
up to editors
15:48:29 [christine]
Simon: re provenance for primer - what is the preference?
15:48:40 [christine]
Luc: editors can decide to use the same provenance, don't have to
15:49:06 [ivan]
15:49:12 [pgroth]
ack ivan
15:49:16 [christine]
Paul: thanks everyone, good work, keep it up
15:49:18 [dgarijo]
@Simon: we did already a file for prov-o. You can base yours in that one, if you want
15:49:55 [christine]
Ivan: votes ends on Tuesday - well send an official transition request to publish - expect to get green light by email - try to take care of this next week
15:50:14 [dgarijo]
15:50:17 [Zakim]
15:50:18 [Luc_]
15:50:18 [Zakim]
15:50:19 [Zakim]
15:50:19 [GK]
15:50:20 [Zakim]
- +1.818.731.aabb
15:50:21 [Zakim]
15:50:21 [Zakim]
15:50:23 [Zakim]
15:50:24 [stain]
15:50:24 [Zakim]
15:50:26 [Zakim]
15:50:27 [SamCoppens]
15:50:28 [Zakim]
15:50:29 [Zakim]
15:50:29 [Zakim]
15:50:33 [pgroth]
rrsagent, set log public
15:50:34 [Zakim]
15:50:36 [Zakim]
15:50:36 [pgroth]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:50:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate pgroth
15:50:39 [Zakim]
15:50:39 [pgroth]
rackbot, end telcon
15:50:40 [Zakim]
SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended
15:50:40 [Zakim]
Attendees were pgroth, [IPcaller], christine, GK, dgarijo, smiles, stain, Luc_, khalidBelhajjame, Satya_Sahoo, +1.818.731.aabb, ivan, TallTed, TomDN, SamCoppens, jcheney
15:50:40 [SamCoppens]
SamCoppens has left #prov
15:50:43 [pgroth]
trackbot, end telcon
15:50:43 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
15:50:43 [Zakim]
sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
15:50:51 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:50:51 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate trackbot
15:50:52 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
15:50:52 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items