IRC log of prov on 2013-03-28

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:50:52 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #prov
14:50:52 [RRSAgent]
logging to
14:50:54 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
14:50:54 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #prov
14:50:56 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be PROV
14:50:56 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
14:50:56 [Luc]
zakim, this will be PROV
14:50:57 [trackbot]
Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
14:50:57 [trackbot]
Date: 28 March 2013
14:50:58 [Zakim]
ok, Luc; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 10 minutes
14:51:07 [Luc]
14:51:22 [Luc]
Chair: Luc Moreau
14:52:00 [Luc]
Scribe: dgarijo
14:52:23 [Luc]
rrsagent, make logs public
14:53:14 [dgarijo]
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14:55:35 [dgarijo]
14:56:39 [Luc]
Hi daniel, are you OK to scribe?
14:57:04 [khalidBelhajjame]
khalidBelhajjame has joined #prov
14:57:55 [Zakim]
SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
14:58:03 [Zakim]
+ +44.238.059.aaaa
14:58:32 [Zakim]
14:58:53 [Luc]
zakim, +44.238.059.aaaa is me
14:58:54 [Zakim]
+Luc; got it
14:59:01 [GK]
GK has joined #prov
14:59:08 [Luc]
Hi daniel, are you OK to scribe?
14:59:12 [Zakim]
14:59:13 [zednik]
zednik has joined #prov
14:59:15 [GK]
zakim, ??p2 is me
14:59:15 [Zakim]
+GK; got it
14:59:27 [Paolo]
Paolo has joined #prov
14:59:34 [dgarijo]
Hi Luc, yes, I'm ok.
15:00:03 [Zakim]
15:00:09 [dgarijo]
Zakim, ??P13 is me
15:00:10 [Zakim]
+dgarijo; got it
15:00:42 [jcheney]
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+ +1.818.731.aabb
15:01:20 [hook]
hook has joined #prov
15:01:24 [Zakim]
- +1.818.731.aabb
15:01:47 [Zakim]
+ +1.818.731.aacc
15:01:59 [dgarijo]
scribe: dgarijo
15:02:23 [dgarijo]
Luc: today we are going to Luc at the documents we are going to release+ organize reviews.
15:02:25 [Luc]
15:02:26 [GK]
15:02:32 [christine]
christine has joined #prov
15:02:34 [Luc]
Proposed: approved last week's minutes
15:02:43 [Zakim]
15:02:46 [dgarijo]
dgarijo:+0 (I wasn't)
15:02:51 [Luc]
zakim, who is here?
15:02:51 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Luc, GK, [IPcaller], dgarijo, +1.818.731.aacc, jcheney
15:02:54 [Zakim]
On IRC I see christine, hook, jcheney, Paolo, zednik, GK, khalidBelhajjame, dgarijo, Zakim, RRSAgent, Luc, GK-alt, TallTed, ivan, stain, trackbot
15:02:58 [Zakim]
15:03:06 [GK]
I'm here
15:03:08 [dgarijo]
me :)
15:03:10 [jcheney]
15:03:16 [hook]
15:03:16 [christine]
Zakim, [IPcaller.a] is christine
15:03:16 [Zakim]
+christine; got it
15:03:18 [jcheney]
15:03:19 [Zakim]
15:03:19 [GK]
Wasn't present last week meeting.
15:03:21 [hook]
15:03:23 [dgarijo]
15:03:24 [TomDN]
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15:03:35 [khalidBelhajjame]
15:03:35 [ivan]
zakim, code?
15:03:35 [Zakim]
the conference code is 7768 (tel:+1.617.761.6200, ivan
15:03:36 [Luc]
RESOLVED: last week's minutes
15:03:39 [Paolo]
0 (not present)
15:03:51 [dgarijo]
Luc:a few open actions left
15:03:57 [Zakim]
15:04:00 [dgarijo]
... Paul -> prov overview document
15:04:07 [Zakim]
15:04:14 [dgarijo]
... another one for Graham. Is it done (about PAQ).
15:04:25 [TomDN]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:25 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Luc, GK, [IPcaller], dgarijo, +1.818.731.aacc, jcheney, christine, SamCoppens, ivan, [IPcaller.a]
15:04:34 [Luc]
15:04:39 [GK]
15:04:40 [Luc]
15:04:40 [trackbot]
ACTION-166 -- Graham Klyne to add a bit of text explaining the inconsistency between html/rdf and http -- due 2013-03-21 -- OPEN
15:04:40 [trackbot]
15:04:44 [TomDN]
Zakim, tomDN is with SamCoppens
15:04:44 [Zakim]
+tomDN; got it
15:04:51 [GK]
Yes, did it.
15:04:58 [TomDN]
Zakim, tomDN is me
15:04:58 [Zakim]
sorry, TomDN, I do not recognize a party named 'tomDN'
15:05:01 [dgarijo]
GK: (can't understand).
15:05:06 [smiles]
smiles has joined #prov
15:05:08 [GK]
I'm going to re-connect
15:05:10 [TomDN]
Zakim, mute me
15:05:10 [Zakim]
sorry, TomDN, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
15:05:12 [Zakim]
15:05:22 [TomDN]
Zakim, TomDN is with SamCoppens
15:05:22 [Zakim]
tomDN was already listed in SamCoppens, TomDN
15:05:41 [Zakim]
15:05:47 [dgarijo]
Luc: Action to Paul to talk to james about reviewing xml
15:05:51 [smiles]
zakim, ??P32 is smiles
15:05:53 [Zakim]
+smiles; got it
15:05:59 [Zakim]
15:06:02 [Luc]
15:06:06 [GK]
zakim, ??p1 is me
15:06:06 [Zakim]
+GK; got it
15:06:37 [dgarijo]
jcheney: ran across Henry Thompson, who is willing in principle o take a look, but not sure. Will try to ask other people
15:06:45 [dgarijo]
Luc: Action is now closed.
15:06:48 [Luc]
topic: prov-xml
15:06:50 [dgarijo]
15:07:07 [dgarijo]
... we had a few issues. The first one is about the media type
15:07:21 [dgarijo]
... we have received some feedback this morning
15:07:33 [dgarijo]
... stephan, have you had a chance to look at it?
15:07:54 [dgarijo]
zednik:will read it and provide a response before the end of the day
15:08:12 [Luc]
15:08:25 [dgarijo]
Luc: next item is the jaxb issue
15:08:53 [dgarijo]
hook: we may have a potential candidate solution.
15:09:27 [dgarijo]
... it may be depending the jaxb implementation.
15:10:40 [CraigTrim]
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15:10:44 [Luc]
zakim, who is noisy?
15:10:50 [dgarijo]
... One possible solution is to remove the sequence inside to ??? (I'm getting a lot of noise).
15:10:55 [Zakim]
Luc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Luc (8%), GK (18%), +1.818.731.aacc (94%), ivan (43%)
15:11:09 [GK]
That\'s odd - I'm muted.
15:11:18 [GK]
Reconnecting again.
15:11:21 [Zakim]
15:11:23 [ivan]
I muted myself
15:11:26 [ivan]
is it better?
15:11:29 [Zakim]
15:11:39 [satya]
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15:12:00 [Zakim]
15:12:08 [GK]
zakim, ??p1 is me
15:12:08 [Zakim]
+GK; got it
15:12:17 [dgarijo]
Luc: what is the timetable, was it today? How are you planning to move towards a decission.
15:12:26 [zednik]
15:12:59 [Luc]
ack z
15:13:02 [dgarijo]
hook: we may need to get some confirmation. The possible solution requires one edit, but that will be the only change (adding the document bundling class).
15:13:10 [Zakim]
15:13:48 [Luc]
15:13:55 [dgarijo]
zednik: We are going to add a level of indirection to the xml serialization. I was not aware that we were going to release something today.
15:14:41 [dgarijo]
Luc: somebody said that in the current timetable. If that's not the case then we should correct it. This will be the final internal review.
15:14:49 [Luc]
15:15:05 [dgarijo]
Luc: when could we hope to have a proposal to the group.
15:15:08 [dgarijo]
... ?
15:15:27 [Luc]
15:16:26 [dgarijo]
hook: it will be a very small edit change. It can be done shortly after we get confimration to the solution.
15:16:37 [dgarijo]
zednik: by next thursday would be good?
15:16:52 [dgarijo]
Luc: we need to have the document staged by the 23 of April.
15:17:23 [dgarijo]
... If there is a vote on the 4th and a release on the 11th then we are tight on time.
15:17:37 [dgarijo]
zednik: ok, we will have it by tuesday.
15:17:39 [dgarijo]
Luc: ok
15:18:07 [dgarijo]
... the we don't need to set up reviewers yet.
15:18:16 [Luc]
15:18:17 [dgarijo]
zednik: ok. I'll stage the document as well.
15:18:21 [dgarijo]
Luc: thanks.
15:18:27 [Luc]
topic: prov-aq
15:18:41 [dgarijo]
Luc: Is the doc ready for review?
15:18:54 [GK]
Yes, dpocument is ready
15:19:00 [dgarijo]
GK: I'll write down my responses
15:19:03 [GK]
15:19:18 [TomDN]
Sam volunteers
15:19:24 [dgarijo]
Luc: reviewers for PROV-AQ?
15:20:07 [Zakim]
15:20:08 [dgarijo]
Luc: it would be nice to have Tim's input as well.
15:20:16 [stain]
Zakim, IPcaller.aa is me
15:20:16 [Zakim]
+stain; got it
15:20:31 [TomDN]
(I'll take a look at it as well, but will integrate my comments in Sam's review)
15:20:35 [dgarijo]
Luc: stian?
15:20:58 [dgarijo]
stain: ok, I'll do a quick one
15:21:06 [stain]
log that Stian won't do an evil review this time
15:21:17 [dgarijo]
15:21:21 [GK]
For reviewers, the comments in the tracker may help you locate the chamnges
15:21:30 [dgarijo]
Luc: anything else?
15:21:38 [GK]
15:21:48 [GK]
Also change log in document.
15:22:02 [dgarijo]
... the intent is that we'd like to have the reviews complete by the 4th of April.
15:22:06 [GK]
Mercurial can provide diffs if required.
15:22:08 [Luc]
15:22:22 [dgarijo]
Luc: prov-primer
15:22:24 [Luc]
topic: prov-primer
15:22:46 [dgarijo]
Luc: status?
15:23:04 [dgarijo]
smiles: I thiyght that it was going to be easy, but I'm struggling a bit.
15:23:18 [dgarijo]
15:23:27 [dgarijo]
... I'm aiming to finish tomorrow
15:23:29 [dgarijo]
Luc: ok
15:23:43 [dgarijo]
... will the document be staged tomorrow?
15:23:49 [dgarijo]
smiles: I don't know.
15:24:00 [dgarijo]
... working as fast as I can
15:24:23 [dgarijo]
Luc: ok, as soon as you can stage the document
15:24:30 [dgarijo]
smiles: sure.
15:24:59 [stain]
zakim, who is noisy?
15:25:09 [dgarijo]
I can have a look at the primer
15:25:10 [Zakim]
stain, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds
15:25:22 [stain]
zakim, who is noisy?
15:25:33 [Zakim]
stain, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Luc (36%), smiles (91%)
15:26:02 [dgarijo]
smiles: influence relationship. Should that be included in the primer?
15:26:13 [Luc]
15:26:20 [Luc]
15:26:51 [Luc]
15:27:27 [Luc]
15:27:30 [dgarijo]
smiles: I have the feeling that it might not be that important. Is there any objection to include bundles and collections?
15:27:31 [stain]
+1 - it could also be used for "other provenance" we don't quite cover - like I've used wasInfluencedBy as a superproperty of
15:28:01 [dgarijo]
Luc: you can include a small section for provenance of provenance.
15:28:06 [Luc]
15:28:13 [Luc]
ack Luc
15:28:20 [dgarijo]
+1 for provenance of provenance section
15:28:40 [Luc]
15:28:44 [dgarijo]
Luc: Simon, please update the timetable.
15:28:56 [pgroth]
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15:29:24 [dgarijo]
smiles: sure. The timetable should be left as it is.
15:29:32 [Luc]
topic: prov-dc
15:29:34 [pgroth]
i'm not on the call
15:29:39 [pgroth]
but will follow irc
15:31:39 [Luc]
15:32:06 [Luc]
15:32:23 [stain]
I can volunteer as I've been doing something similar mapping with dcterms recently
15:32:40 [pgroth]
i'm already going to read it
15:32:47 [stain]
what is the deadline for the review?
15:32:49 [pgroth]
assuming we're talking about prov-dc
15:32:58 [stain]
and the URI for what to review
15:33:05 [stain] ?
15:33:34 [Luc]
15:33:37 [dgarijo]
Paul and Stian will review prov-dc
15:33:45 [Luc]
topic: prov-dictionary
15:33:47 [dgarijo]
Daniel: 2 issues remain to be added to tghe document: 1- finish the dc:references debate. 2) add something about prov:hasProvenance.
15:34:00 [Luc]
15:34:03 [dgarijo]
Reviews complete by: 2013-04-04
15:34:20 [dgarijo]
Daniel: Will finish and stage the document tomorrow for internal reviw.
15:34:21 [TomDN]
15:35:02 [dgarijo]
Tom: we are running a bit behind but it will be done by the end of today/tomorrow morning.
15:35:16 [stain]
dgarijo, is it just the default/dc-note/dc-note.html in mercurial?
15:35:31 [dgarijo]
@stian: yes.
15:35:34 [stain]
15:36:01 [TomDN]
changed prov:KeyValuePair to prov:KeyEntityPair; prov:keyValuePair to prov:keyEntityPair; prov:pairValue to prov:pairEntity.
15:36:04 [dgarijo]
Tom: I have done a little change to key entity pair in order to make it less ambiguous.
15:36:34 [dgarijo]
... makes things a lot more consistent
15:36:44 [stain]
15:36:44 [Luc]
+1 to this change
15:36:52 [dgarijo]
... if there are objections I can change it back
15:36:53 [Luc]
15:37:22 [Luc]
ack L
15:37:24 [Zakim]
- +1.818.731.aacc
15:37:56 [Luc]
15:38:00 [dgarijo]
Tom: we don't want to touch the definition of influence, so the proposal is to leave things as they are.
15:38:09 [dgarijo]
Luc: what is the implication for the owl file?
15:38:15 [pgroth]
+1 for not touching influence
15:38:23 [dgarijo]
Tom: it still needs to be updated. And the xml schema.
15:38:51 [dgarijo]
Luc: once you've completed the doc it will be fine to inform Tim and Stephan about the latest changes
15:39:21 [Luc]
15:39:26 [dgarijo]
Luc: we had identified some reviewer: Luc, Simon. Anybody else?
15:40:03 [Luc]
15:40:06 [dgarijo]
... the reviews are due by next week.
15:40:10 [dgarijo]
... anything else?
15:40:13 [Luc]
topic: prov-overview
15:40:44 [pgroth]
suggestions due today
15:40:57 [dgarijo]
Luc: There was a call for suggestions and the deadline was today. Paul was going to produce the next version for next week
15:41:03 [Luc]
document ready for review next week?
15:41:09 [pgroth]
I had some from Tim, Graham, and also outside
15:41:16 [pgroth]
it will be ready for review next week
15:41:17 [pgroth]
15:41:26 [Luc]
15:41:48 [dgarijo]
We have craig also. Anybody else?
15:41:58 [pgroth]
it's not long :-)
15:42:11 [dgarijo]
Ivan, it would be nice if you could have a look with your w3c hat.
15:42:26 [Luc]
15:42:32 [dgarijo]
Ivan: I have to go to China, I don't think I'll be able.
15:42:42 [Luc]
15:42:58 [dgarijo]
... if the doc is ready at the beggining of next week, I'll do it.
15:43:08 [pgroth]
15:43:11 [TomDN]
(Small note on prov-dictionary: there is a small change in the prov-n grammar: the production rules keyValuePairs and keyValuePair changed to keyEntityPairs and keyEntityPair. Will update the grammar file and notify Luc, sorry)
15:43:14 [pgroth]
i'll try and make sure it's up-to-date
15:43:18 [pgroth]
before then
15:43:20 [Luc]
topic: prov-links
15:43:29 [dgarijo]
Luc: PROV-Links is ready for review.
15:43:45 [smiles]
15:43:46 [GK]
I just sent a brief review of prov-links to the mailing list
15:43:53 [dgarijo]
... I sent an email earlier today. smiles had volunteeres. Is it still the case?
15:43:59 [TomDN]
I volunteer for prov-links as well
15:44:00 [GK]
(Just now!)
15:44:06 [dgarijo]
...anybody else'
15:44:10 [dgarijo]
15:44:36 [dgarijo]
Tom, Simon and Graham will review prov-links.
15:44:39 [Luc]
15:44:47 [smiles]
15:44:54 [dgarijo]
Do any editors want to bring any issues ?
15:45:03 [Luc]
ack sm
15:45:58 [dgarijo]
smiles: section about collections and bundles to the primer. My concern is about prov-o examples. There is no "official" way.
15:45:58 [Luc]
15:45:58 [stain]
that sounds like the most obvious way to do it
15:46:04 [stain]
15:46:15 [Luc]
ack st
15:46:20 [GK]
(I'm checking what PROV-AQ says here - I think it's compatible)
15:46:43 [Zakim]
15:46:54 [dgarijo]
stian: yes, prov-o examples are fine. But it's not the only way.
15:46:58 [stain]
for instance when using SPARQL it would make more sense to do them as named graphs
15:47:10 [smiles]
yes thanks
15:47:21 [dgarijo]
Luc: are you fine with this?
15:47:24 [dgarijo]
simon: yes
15:47:27 [Luc]
topic: Updates to FAQ / posts / other
15:47:28 [ivan]
15:47:52 [dgarijo]
Luc: stian, were you preparing a blog post?
15:47:53 [GK]
Confirm no disagreement with note in PROV-AQ (re bundles in primer discussion)
15:48:04 [dgarijo]
stian: yes, it's a bit long.
15:48:14 [Luc]
15:48:29 [dgarijo]
... I can post it in my blog and then referr from the w3c blog
15:48:33 [dgarijo]
Luc: up to you
15:48:38 [Luc]
15:48:46 [Luc]
zakim, who is noisy
15:48:46 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who is noisy', Luc
15:48:48 [Luc]
zakim, who is noisy?
15:48:59 [Zakim]
Luc, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: smiles (60%)
15:49:07 [dgarijo]
ivan: we have slightly more than 2 weeks to take all the votes together.
15:49:11 [ivan]
iMinds, Apple, VU, NASA, Newcastle Univ, OpenLink, IBM, Pacific Northwest, Wright Univ, INRIA
15:49:22 [dgarijo]
... large nubmer of members that have not voted.
15:49:29 [Luc]
I am talking to my acrep!
15:49:40 [dgarijo]
@ivan: UPM has voted.
15:49:47 [GK]
Hmmm… I did ask our AC rep (Oxford)
15:50:06 [Luc]
@tallted, last week you said you would talk to your acrep?
15:50:14 [dgarijo]
... there are a number of companies that they are not anymore here.
15:50:29 [dgarijo]
ivan: yes, UPM has voted.
15:50:56 [dgarijo]
... we have to get emails to the missing persons in the group and their acrep.
15:50:59 [GK]
@Ivan, only AC rep can vote? Or can we as members do it?
15:51:28 [dgarijo]
Luc: we have already contacted all members individually, last week.
15:51:33 [stain]
9 days ago I got the reminder from Luc
15:51:55 [dgarijo]
ivan: do you have the list with the AC rep?
15:52:07 [dgarijo]
Luc: very few of them responded to me directly.
15:52:22 [dgarijo]
ivan: some of them are here.
15:52:52 [dgarijo]
ivan: Edinbourgh? Manchester?
15:52:59 [dgarijo]
... those are here.
15:53:03 [stain]
I have just reminded my Manchester contact again, but he's been on holiday this week
15:53:28 [dgarijo]
ivan: how do you want to handle that? WHat is the best to do it?
15:53:43 [dgarijo]
Luc: Ted said he would talk to his acrep. Ted?
15:53:58 [pgroth]
open link already voted ?
15:54:05 [dgarijo]
ivan: at some point in time we have to contact the acreps
15:54:58 [dgarijo]
... I don't want to contact the acreps again. If I have the list of those acreps that don't have an active member, I can contact them
15:55:04 [christine]
apologies - moving to next call - thank you Luc, all
15:55:10 [stain]
2013-04-09 23:59 boston time
15:55:16 [Zakim]
15:55:23 [dgarijo]
...^^deadline for votes
15:55:37 [dgarijo]
... next thursday is sort of ok.
15:56:04 [dgarijo]
Luc: thx for bringing that up
15:56:15 [GK]
I've just sent a chasing email to our AC Rep.
15:56:44 [Luc]
action pgroth to post daniel'post
15:56:44 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-169 - Post daniel'post [on Paul Groth - due 2013-04-04].
15:56:51 [satya]
Daniel has sent blog post to Paul
15:57:11 [dgarijo]
Luc: many people have given tutorials.
15:57:36 [dgarijo]
Paolo: I how do I do it?
15:57:38 [pgroth]
will do
15:57:48 [pgroth]
paolo: you can send the blog post to me
15:58:14 [Luc]
zakim, mute ivan
15:58:14 [Zakim]
ivan should now be muted
15:58:16 [Paolo]
@pgroth I did send it earlier today
15:58:19 [dgarijo]
Luc: send the tutorials to Paul
15:58:22 [Paolo]
will send a slightly revised version
15:58:42 [pgroth]
15:58:51 [Luc]
15:58:53 [dgarijo]
Luc: FAQ brainstorm
15:59:02 [dgarijo]
... what do we want to add?
15:59:03 [dgarijo]
15:59:16 [dgarijo]
who is going to add it?
15:59:25 [Zakim]
15:59:37 [Luc]
zakim, unmute ivan
15:59:37 [Zakim]
ivan should no longer be muted
15:59:50 [Luc]
zakim, mute ivan
15:59:50 [Zakim]
ivan should now be muted
15:59:58 [Luc]
ack iv
16:00:13 [Luc]
zakim, mute ivan
16:00:13 [Zakim]
ivan should now be muted
16:00:35 [Paolo]
need to go...
16:00:39 [Zakim]
16:00:52 [Luc]
action dgarijo to draft blog post on provenance as rdfa in html documents
16:00:52 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-170 - Draft blog post on provenance as rdfa in html documents [on Daniel Garijo - due 2013-04-04].
16:00:53 [dgarijo]
Daniel: draft blog post on rdf-a and PROV.
16:01:17 [pgroth]
@daniel, I can help with this
16:01:18 [dgarijo]
Luc: If you think on something, could you circulate it to the list?
16:01:24 [dgarijo]
@paul: thanks
16:01:27 [Zakim]
16:01:27 [dgarijo]
Luc goodbye
16:01:30 [Zakim]
16:01:33 [Zakim]
16:01:34 [Zakim]
16:01:36 [GK]
16:01:40 [Zakim]
16:01:41 [Zakim]
16:01:47 [Zakim]
16:03:41 [GK]
GK has left #prov
16:03:55 [Zakim]
16:11:14 [Zakim]
16:11:16 [Zakim]
SW_(PROV)11:00AM has ended
16:11:16 [Zakim]
Attendees were Luc, [IPcaller], GK, dgarijo, +1.818.731.aabb, +1.818.731.aacc, jcheney, christine, SamCoppens, ivan, tomDN, smiles, Satya_Sahoo, CraigTrim, stain
16:36:08 [TallTed]
Luc - sorry, failed to attend today... our rep voted last week -- within hours of meeting. unless I sent him to the wrong poll?
17:42:03 [TallTed]
TallTed has changed the topic to: Provenance WG -- -- agenda
18:27:58 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #prov