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13:56:57 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/03/22-wcag2ict-irc
13:56:59 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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13:57:01 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2428
13:57:01 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
13:57:02 <trackbot> Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
13:57:02 <trackbot> Date: 22 March 2013
13:57:41 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag2ict-tf/2013Mar/0013.html
13:59:24 <David> David has joined #wcag2ict
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14:00:05 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has now started
14:00:11 <Judy> Judy has joined #wcag2ict
14:00:12 <Zakim> +Mary_Jo_Mueller
14:00:14 <Zakim> +??P12
14:00:15 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
14:00:16 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P12 is Michael_Cooper
14:00:16 <Zakim> +Michael_Cooper; got it
14:00:16 <Zakim> +??P16
14:00:34 <MaryJo> MaryJo has joined #wcag2ict
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14:00:38 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P16 is Mike_Pluke
14:00:38 <Zakim> +Mike_Pluke; got it
14:00:42 <MichaelC> chair: Mike_Pluke
14:00:43 <Zakim> +Judy
14:00:54 <Judy> trackbot, start meeting
14:00:56 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:00:58 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2428
14:00:59 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM scheduled to start now
14:00:59 <trackbot> Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
14:01:00 <trackbot> Date: 22 March 2013
14:01:04 <MaryJo> scribe: Mary_Jo_Mueller
14:01:13 <MaryJo> scribenick: MaryJo
14:01:14 <MichaelC> zakim, this is 2428
14:01:14 <Zakim> ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM
14:01:43 <Judy> agenda?
14:01:45 <Judy> agenda+ Discuss the 'Closed Functionality - compare/contrast with M376' survey [2]
14:01:45 <Judy> agenda+ priorities for remaining sections to address
14:01:45 <Judy> agenda+ confirming next meetings, including holiday break
14:02:10 <MaryJo> zakim, next item
14:02:10 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Discuss the 'Closed Functionality - compare/contrast with M376' survey" taken up [from 2]
14:03:04 <Zakim> +[Oracle]
14:03:05 <korn> Zakim, Oracle has Peter_Korn
14:03:05 <Zakim> +Peter_Korn; got it
14:04:27 <korn> q+
14:04:41 <Zakim> +Bruce_Bailey
14:04:59 <BBailey> BBailey has joined #wcag2ict
14:05:27 <MaryJo> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/cross-cutting-issues-and-notes/comparison-to-m376#TOC-Comparison-for-closed-list
14:05:46 <MaryJo> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20130321/results
14:06:37 <MaryJo> We want to make sure that we consense on any changes to our wording, not on any advice for M376.
14:07:34 <Judy> Judy has joined #wcag2ict
14:09:02 <Mike_P> q+
14:09:20 <Judy> q+
14:10:03 <MaryJo> The M376 team and access board are finding our observations and rationale valuable.
14:10:06 <BBailey> q+
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14:12:25 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:12:35 <korn> q-
14:14:38 <MaryJo> We will do cleanup of the individual notes in the tables so there isn't any information in there that shouldn't be in the final output.
14:16:47 <korn> q+
14:16:56 <MaryJo> The statements about what M376 'should do' will have to be cleaned out, as it is part of the regulatory process that is outside the scope of our task force.
14:19:33 <MaryJo> The wiki is a work in progress, and the third column is useful for the discussions on what we need to do in the WCAG2ICT document.
14:19:40 <Judy> s/as it is part of the regulatory process/as it appears to be pro-active efforts at reconciliation of active regulatory processes/
14:20:32 <Judy> q+
14:23:15 <korn> q?
14:23:25 <Mike_P> q+
14:23:29 <BBailey> q-
14:24:37 <greggvanderheiden> ack m
14:24:41 <greggvanderheiden> ack j
14:24:43 <greggvanderheiden> ack g
14:25:57 <MaryJo> The column before the last column with the suggestions, it was always the understanding this column will be deleted once our discussions are complete.
14:26:42 <greggvanderheiden> ack k
14:29:05 <MaryJo> Actually 2 columns would be removed from the documentation and software tables: 1) where the initial observations and then 2) the survey compilation of comments.
14:30:54 <MaryJo> When we're done, we'll have 5 columns left in each table.
14:32:00 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:32:20 <korn> ack
14:35:32 <MaryJo> WCAG2ICT cannot be creating guidance for what the regulatory groups should do. Even if we do this temporarily, it is a concern. This is beyond the scope of this task force.
14:37:23 <MaryJo> There was an issue with timing of our work and the M376 work, and if there are things the group consenses on we can make a statement about our consensus.
14:38:21 <korn> q+
14:39:07 <MaryJo> Proposal that we remove anything in bold yellow at the end of our meeting today.
14:39:12 <Judy> s/cannot be creating guidance for what the regulatory groups should do/should not be telling the regulatory groups what to do, nor creating the perception that they may be doing so/
14:43:51 <korn> ack
14:45:24 <MaryJo> Proposal made to remove working notes for items we have closed and directions toward what M376 should do.
14:45:40 <korn> I propose I will make the following edits to the compare doc:
14:45:40 <korn>  1. change final column title to be "TF resolution, with dates"
14:45:40 <korn>  2. remove all boldface "suggestion" text from "Comparison" column
14:45:40 <korn>  3. Remove highlighted in yellow introdoctory text
14:46:00 <MaryJo> s/introdoctory/introductory/
14:46:40 <greggvanderheiden> To remove non-consensus language and any comments on what M376 should do.
14:49:03 <MaryJo> Columns 1, 2, 3, 4 and the last column will be all that remains when we're done.
14:49:03 <greggvanderheiden> To remove any comments on what M376 should do and remove non-consensus language as we complete the items.  Comments from individuals will be signed.
14:50:14 <MaryJo> RESOLUTION: Task force agreed to remove any comments on what M376 should do and remove non-consensus language as we complete the items.  Comments from individuals will be signed.
14:53:30 <MaryJo> Closed Products survey SC 1.1.1 - the resolution that we document should be in the same format as the others.
14:55:50 <korn> WCAG2ICT text includes brief description noting the problematic issue with this SC for Closed Functionality. M376 notes a 5.x.y.z provision addressing the closed requirement raised by this SC.
14:55:50 <korn> No change. 
14:55:50 <korn> Rationale: WCAG2ICT does not have these additional provisions.
14:55:50 <korn> -22Mar13.
14:58:37 <korn> WCAG2ICT text includes brief description noting the problematic issue with this SC for Closed Functionality. M376 notes a 5.x.y.z provision addressing the closed requirement raised by this SC.  M376 splits 1.2.1 into two parts
14:58:37 <korn> No change. 
14:58:37 <korn> Rationale: WCAG2ICT does not have these additional provisions.
14:58:37 <korn> -22Mar13.
14:58:42 <korn> ===============================
14:58:43 <korn> WCAG2ICT text includes brief description noting the problematic issue with this SC for Closed Functionality. M376 notes a 5.x.y.z provision addressing the closed requirement raised by this SC.  M376 splits 1.2.1 into two parts
14:58:43 <korn> No change. 
14:58:43 <korn> Rationale: WCAG2ICT does not have these additional provisions.
14:58:43 <korn> -22Mar13.
15:00:54 <MaryJo> The original WCAG 2.0 SC (and our WCAG2ICT notes for the SC) isn't split, but M376 needed to split to cover 2 scenarios.
15:01:47 <MaryJo> WCAG2ICT doesn't include specific provisions for closed functionality.
15:01:50 <korn> ====== new rationale: Rationale: WCAG2ICT does not have specific provisions for closed products functionality. =======
15:02:15 <MaryJo> s/closed products functionality/closed functionality/
15:03:07 <korn> ========================
15:03:08 <korn> WCAG2ICT text includes brief description noting the problematic issue with this SC for Closed Functionality. M376 notes a 5.x.y.z provision addressing the closed requirement raised by this SC.  M376 splits 1.2.1 into two parts
15:03:08 <korn> No change. 
15:03:08 <korn> Rationale: WCAG2ICT does not have specific provisions for closed functionality. 
15:03:08 <korn> -22Mar13.
15:03:10 <korn> =====================
15:04:08 <MaryJo> 1.2.1 a and b would have this comment.
15:04:40 <MaryJo> SC 1.2.3 - this has some 'should' language that needs to be removed.
15:05:47 <korn> ==============
15:05:48 <korn> WCAG2ICT text includes brief description noting the problematic issue  with this SC for Closed Functionality. M376 notes a 5.x.y.z provision  addressing the closed requirement raised by this SC.  Further, M376  makes more clear what is needed.
15:05:49 <korn> RESOLUTION: modify WCAG2ICT text for closed to read: "one of the options  available to authors for success criterion 1.2.3 is that of providing a  media alternative that is text - which necessarily relies on a  connected assistive technology to be presented"
15:05:49 <korn> Rationale: WCAG2ICT text cannot introduce or reference additional provisions.  WCAG2ICT text can be made more clear and helpful.
15:05:49 <korn> -22Mar13.
15:06:49 <korn> WCAG2ICT text includes brief description noting the problematic issue with this SC for Closed Functionality. M376 notes a 5.x.y.z provision  addressing the closed requirement raised by this SC. Further, M376 makes more clear what is needed.
15:06:49 <korn> RESOLUTION: modify WCAG2ICT text for closed to read: "one of the options available to authors for success criterion 1.2.3 is that of providing a media alternative that is text - which necessarily relies on a connected assistive technology to be presented"
15:06:49 <korn> Rationale: WCAG2ICT does not have specific provisions for closed functionality.  WCAG2ICT text can be made more clear and helpful.
15:06:49 <korn> -22Mar13.
15:09:17 <MaryJo> SC 1.2.8
15:09:42 <MaryJo> This version of the WCAG2ICT document doesn't address Level AAA SC's.
15:10:39 <Judy> q+
15:10:54 <MaryJo> We had never previously made a resolution as a group that we would not address Level AAA SC's in our document.
15:11:54 <korn> q-
15:11:57 <MaryJo> However, there is no indication that anyone will be picking up Level AAA.
15:14:35 <MaryJo> It would be good to get a resolution from the task force by putting it in a survey and then we can communicate it forward to the WCAG working group.
15:15:16 <Mike_P> M376 doesn't include this on the list. This is a AAA SC.  RESOLUTION: drop this SC from the list  Rationale: This version of WCAG2ICT doesn't address any AAA SC.  -22Mar13.
15:15:22 <korn> ================
15:15:23 <korn> M376 doesn't include this on the list. This is a AAA SC.
15:15:23 <korn> RESOLUTION: drop this SC from the list.
15:15:23 <korn> Rationale: This version of WCAG2ICT doesn't address any AAA SC.
15:15:23 <korn> -22Mar13.
15:17:53 <MaryJo> SC 1.3.1 and 1.3.2
15:18:27 <MaryJo> The survey comments are both straighforward.
15:19:17 <MaryJo> That we are in agreement that the formatting changes are needed.
15:19:51 <korn> ===================
15:19:52 <korn> WCAG2ICT text includes brief description noting the problematic issue with this SC for Closed Functionality. M376 notes a 5.x.y.z provision addressing the closed requirement raised by this SC.  WCAG2ICT includes logic referencing programmatic determinability.
15:19:52 <korn> No change. 
15:19:52 <korn> Rationale: WCAG2ICT does not have specific provisions for closed functionality. Programmatic determinability language helpful to developers.
15:19:52 <korn> -22Mar13. 
15:23:18 <MaryJo> SC 1.4.2 - This SC is covered in M376 by 3 provisions rather than using this SC.
15:24:09 <korn> =================
15:24:10 <korn> WCAG2ICT doesn't place this on the closed list.
15:24:10 <korn> No change. 
15:24:10 <korn> Rationale: audio control is important also for self-voicing apps.
15:24:10 <korn> -22Mar13.
15:27:25 <MaryJo> SC 1.4.4 - a lot like 1.3.2, but is not a programmatic determinability reference
15:29:24 <MaryJo> We can say in the rationale that the WCAG2ICT text is helpful.
15:30:05 <korn> ====================
15:30:06 <korn> WCAG2ICT text includes brief description noting the problematic issue with this SC for Closed Functionality. M376 notes a 5.x.y.z provision addressing the closed requirement raised by this SC.  WCAG2ICT describes potential text rendering limitations in closed.
15:30:06 <korn> No change. 
15:30:06 <korn> Rationale: WCAG2ICT does not have specific provisions for closed functionality. WCAG2ICT text is helpful.
15:30:06 <korn> -22Mar13.  
15:31:16 <Zakim> -Judy
15:32:14 <MaryJo> We'll start with SC 1.4.5 at the next meeting.
15:33:31 <MaryJo> We also need to finish the final 4 SC and conformance.
15:33:46 <MaryJo> This survey can be kept open until the next meeting.
15:34:30 <Zakim> -Bruce_Bailey
15:34:32 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
15:34:33 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
15:34:34 <Zakim> -Gregg_Vanderheiden
15:34:36 <Zakim> -Mary_Jo_Mueller
15:34:44 <Zakim> -[Oracle]
15:34:46 <Zakim> -Mike_Pluke
15:34:46 <MaryJo> The next meeting will be on Friday 5 April.
15:35:23 <Zakim> -Kiran_Kaja
15:35:24 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has ended
15:35:24 <Zakim> Attendees were Mary_Jo_Mueller, David_MacDonald, Michael_Cooper, Mike_Pluke, Judy, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Kiran_Kaja, Peter_Korn, Bruce_Bailey
15:37:38 <MaryJo> regrets: Loic_Martinez_Normand, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Alex_Li
15:37:44 <MaryJo> zakim, bye
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15:37:50 <MaryJo> rrsagent, make minutes
15:37:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/22-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
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16:00:29 <MaryJo> s/ack//
16:00:38 <MaryJo> rrsagent, make minutes
16:00:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/22-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
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