15:02:24 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
15:02:24 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/03/08-wcag2ict-irc
15:02:26 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:02:28 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2428
15:02:29 <trackbot> Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
15:02:29 <trackbot> Date: 08 March 2013
15:02:29 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago
15:02:29 <BBailey> zakim, i am bbailey
15:02:32 <Zakim> sorry, BBailey, I do not see a party named 'bbailey'
15:02:44 <BBailey> zakim, who is here
15:02:44 <Zakim> BBailey, you need to end that query with '?'
15:02:47 <alex_> alex_ has joined #wcag2ict
15:02:52 <BBailey> zakim, who is here?
15:02:52 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has not yet started, BBailey
15:02:53 <Zakim> On IRC I see alex_, RRSAgent, Zakim, MaryJo, Loic, Mike_P, BBailey, Judy, shadi, MichaelC, trackbot
15:03:10 <MaryJo> scribe: Mary_Jo_Mueller
15:03:10 <janina> janina has joined #wcag2ict
15:03:17 <MaryJo> scribenick: MaryJo
15:03:48 <greggvanderheiden> greggvanderheiden has joined #WCAG2ICT
15:03:55 <janina> zakim, who's here?
15:03:55 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has not yet started, janina
15:03:57 <Zakim> On IRC I see greggvanderheiden, janina, alex_, RRSAgent, Zakim, MaryJo, Loic, Mike_P, BBailey, Judy, shadi, MichaelC, trackbot
15:04:11 <Mike_P> agenda+ Survey on text proposals for M376 comparison rationale for 2.4.1
15:04:29 <janina> zakim, this will be WAI_(WCAG2ICT)
15:04:29 <Zakim> ok, janina, I see WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM already started
15:04:35 <Mike_P> agenda+ Continue discussion of comparison with M376 [3] starting with 2.4.2
15:04:42 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:04:42 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P3, Peter, [Microsoft], Gregg_Vanderheiden, ??P21, Bruce_Bailey, +1.512.255.aaaa, ??P28, Judy
15:04:47 <Mike_P> agenda+ priorities for remaining sections to address agenda+ confirming next meetings
15:04:54 <janina> zakim, ??P3 is Janina_Sajka
15:04:54 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
15:05:03 <Mike_P> agenda+ confirming next meetings
15:05:03 <BBailey> zakim, i am bruce
15:05:04 <MaryJo> zakim, aaaa is MaryJo
15:05:04 <Zakim> ok, BBailey, I now associate you with Bruce_Bailey
15:05:04 <Zakim> +MaryJo; got it
15:05:09 <Loic> Zakim, ??P21 is me
15:05:09 <Zakim> +Loic; got it
15:05:10 <BBailey> zakim, mute me
15:05:10 <Zakim> Bruce_Bailey should now be muted
15:05:11 <Loic> q-
15:05:32 <Judy> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:05:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see Janina_Sajka, Peter, [Microsoft], Gregg_Vanderheiden, Loic, Bruce_Bailey (muted), MaryJo, ??P28, Judy
15:06:03 <alex_> zakim, microsoft has alex
15:06:03 <Zakim> +alex; got it
15:06:17 <Judy> zakim, ??P28 is Mike_Pluke
15:06:17 <Zakim> +Mike_Pluke; got it
15:07:21 <Mike_P> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/mar082013/results
15:07:27 <MaryJo> zakim, next item
15:07:27 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Survey on text proposals for M376 comparison rationale for 2.4.1" taken up [from Mike_P]
15:07:33 <Zakim> +Shadi
15:07:40 <shadi> zakim, mute me
15:07:40 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
15:07:52 <Judy> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/mar082013/results
15:08:23 <greggvanderheiden> q+
15:08:55 <shadi> q- ??p21
15:09:57 <Mike_P> Revised Option 5: WCAG2ICT is chartered to describe how to apply all SCs to non-web ICT, not change them or their scope, nor state whether they should or should not apply.
15:10:01 <Judy> q?
15:10:19 <korn> korn has joined #wcag2ict
15:10:21 <MaryJo> The 5th proposal had the most support.
15:10:52 <Zakim> +[Oracle]
15:10:52 <shadi> ack g
15:10:59 <Zakim> -Peter
15:11:08 <korn> Zaklm, Oracle has Peter_Korn
15:12:30 <Mike_P> q+
15:13:19 <MaryJo> Most of these proposals make a declaration that may mislead the reader that WCAG2ICT would have chosen the M376 interpretation if we were allowed to by our charter.
15:14:21 <greggvanderheiden> q+
15:15:52 <MaryJo> The next to the last proposal may be more accurate - that different members of our group have different rationales for keeping our original text.
15:15:56 <korn> "WCAG2ICT was operating under a set of constraints (see the TF Work Statement).  Had we not been, we might have come up with different language.  Things the TF explored include..."
15:16:00 <korn> q+
15:16:34 <MaryJo> However, the 5th proposed rationale is stating a fact of the constraints we are working under.
15:18:44 <Mike_P> q+
15:21:22 <Loic> ack Mike
15:21:27 <Loic> ack g
15:22:55 <greggvanderheiden> q+
15:23:06 <Mike_P> q+
15:24:40 <korn> q-
15:24:46 <MaryJo> We were formed as a group to be an informative body, so there could be value in stating why we are doing something different than EU M376. By stating the constraints, it indicates also areas where we were not able to explore the possibilities for interpretation.
15:27:02 <korn> q+
15:27:22 <Mike_P> -q
15:28:27 <Mike_P> +1
15:28:36 <korn> q+
15:29:28 <Mike_P> q+
15:29:32 <greggvanderheiden> q-
15:29:35 <MaryJo> If we had reached consensus on this SC before M376 became final, they may not have interpreted this SC as they did.
15:29:38 <greggvanderheiden> k-
15:31:00 <Loic> q?
15:31:05 <Loic> q+
15:31:19 <greggvanderheiden> q
15:31:24 <greggvanderheiden> q+
15:33:29 <korn> q-
15:34:43 <MaryJo> For all 4 of these 'sets of' SC, we probably wouldn't have even come up with these criteria be stated to apply to software - and didn't in the TEITAC recommendations.
15:35:55 <alex_> q+
15:36:19 <Mike_P> q+
15:36:19 <Loic> It is not the intent of this Task force to judge as to whether WCAG 2.0 or any particular WCAG 2.0 provisions should be used with non-web content, but rather to comment on the meaning of the WCAG 2.0 guidelines, principles, success criteria and conformance requirements and how they should be understood if they were to be applied to non-web ICT.
15:36:22 <MaryJo> Another propsal is to copy our work statement as the rationale directly from the WCAG2ICT document.
15:36:29 <korn> In all other (but these 4) SCs, we *can* adopt M376 language *if* we want to.  With these we can't.  That is a real difference.
15:36:35 <Loic> q-
15:36:57 <Judy> q_
15:37:00 <Judy> q+
15:37:40 <MaryJo> s/q_//
15:40:15 <korn> q+
15:42:03 <MaryJo> This committee isn't set up to endorse or make comment on the M376 document. It is only meant to figure out how to apply WCAG 2.0 in a non-web context.
15:44:59 <Loic> ack m
15:45:02 <Loic> ack g
15:45:49 <greggvanderheiden> q+
15:49:53 <alex_> ack alex
15:49:59 <Mike_P> "There is Task Force consensus that our language should remain the same."
15:50:08 <Mike_P> q+
15:50:30 <BBailey> q+ to suggest "charged" instead of "chartered".
15:51:06 <MaryJo> Propose we don't use 'chartered' because that is incorrect. If we have a rationale, we should state that our group was given a work statement.
15:51:56 <MaryJo> An additional proposal was made to remove 'chartered' from the rationale.
15:53:25 <Mike_P> q-
15:53:30 <korn> q-
15:53:35 <Zakim> -Shadi
15:53:43 <BBailey> zakim, unmute me
15:53:43 <Zakim> Bruce_Bailey should no longer be muted
15:54:41 <alex_> sorry can't agree with Mike's suggestion
15:54:57 <alex_> q+
15:55:06 <greggvanderheiden> ack j
15:55:08 <greggvanderheiden> ack g
15:55:09 <greggvanderheiden> ack b
15:55:09 <Zakim> Bruce_Bailey, you wanted to suggest "charged" instead of "chartered".
15:55:24 <BBailey> zakim, mute me
15:55:25 <Zakim> Bruce_Bailey should now be muted
15:56:31 <greggvanderheiden> q+
15:56:39 <greggvanderheiden> ack a
15:57:22 <MaryJo> For Mike's proposal above, it could be interpreted that we are right and M376 is wrong. So not sure this is an optimal solution.
15:57:56 <korn> q+
15:59:26 <greggvanderheiden> ack g
16:00:03 <greggvanderheiden> ack k
16:00:07 <greggvanderheiden> g+
16:00:11 <greggvanderheiden> q+
16:01:09 <greggvanderheiden> no change.  Different task force members had different rationales.
16:02:42 <BBailey> q+
16:02:56 <Judy> q?
16:03:00 <BBailey> zakim, unmute me
16:03:00 <Zakim> Bruce_Bailey should no longer be muted
16:04:03 <Judy> q+
16:04:35 <BBailey> zakim, mute me
16:04:35 <Zakim> Bruce_Bailey should now be muted
16:04:48 <greggvanderheiden> no change.  Different task force members had different rationales.
16:04:52 <Mike_P> no change.  Different task force members had different rationales.
16:09:29 <alex_> q+
16:09:55 <BBailey> q-
16:10:58 <alex_> ack alex
16:11:00 <Mike_P> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/cross-cutting-issues-and-notes/comparison-to-m376
16:12:13 <MaryJo> We have not reached consensus on this, so need to move on to other SC we can make more progress on.
16:12:19 <MaryJo> zakim, next item
16:12:19 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, MaryJo
16:12:35 <Loic> q?
16:12:36 <korn> q?
16:12:44 <korn> ack g
16:12:50 <MaryJo> zakim, next item
16:12:50 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Continue discussion of comparison with M376 [3] starting with 2.4.2" taken up [from Mike_P]
16:14:56 <greggvanderheiden> q+
16:15:27 <Mike_P> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/Jan232013-2/results
16:15:31 <Mike_P> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/Jan232013-2/results
16:15:55 <MaryJo> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/Jan232013/results
16:16:07 <Mike_P> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/Jan232013/results
16:18:50 <MaryJo> Need another survey on the key terms with use of 'software' or 'document' instead of 'content' or leaving 'content'.
16:23:56 <korn> M376 reminds readers that the title is sufficient if it describes the topic or person.
16:23:56 <korn>  -- RESOLUTION: Add the the end of our first note: "if it describes the topic or purpose".
16:23:57 <korn> Rationale: it is a useful reminder, taken directly from the SC language.
16:23:57 <korn> -8Mar13
16:30:08 <MaryJo> SC 2.4.5 - We'll have to address later as it is one of the 'set of' SC.
16:30:40 <MaryJo> 2.4.6, 2.4.7, and 3.1.1 all are no change, so noted in table.
16:31:24 <MaryJo> 2.4.3 is also a no change, so this is also noted in the table.
16:32:14 <MaryJo> Next time, we'll start up on 3.1.2.
16:34:20 <MaryJo> Peter will be working on conformance before the next meeting.
16:34:38 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
16:34:42 <Zakim> -Mike_Pluke
16:34:43 <Zakim> -Judy
16:34:44 <Zakim> -Bruce_Bailey
16:34:45 <Zakim> -Gregg_Vanderheiden
16:34:45 <janina> janina has left #wcag2ict
16:34:46 <Zakim> -Loic
16:34:46 <Zakim> -MaryJo
16:34:47 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
16:34:49 <Zakim> -[Oracle]
16:34:50 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has ended
16:34:50 <Zakim> Attendees were Peter, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Bruce_Bailey, +1.512.255.aaaa, Judy, Janina_Sajka, MaryJo, Loic, alex, Mike_Pluke, Shadi, [Oracle]
16:35:08 <Mike_P> Mike_P has left #wcag2ict
17:20:52 <MaryJo> CHAIR: Mike_Pluke
17:21:11 <MaryJo> MEETING: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
17:21:29 <MaryJo> zakim, bye
17:21:29 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag2ict
17:21:36 <MaryJo> rrsagent, make minutes
17:21:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/08-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
17:23:05 <MaryJo> s/-q//
17:23:11 <MaryJo> s/k-//
19:10:45 <MaryJo> rrsagent, make minutes
19:10:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/08-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
19:13:31 <MaryJo> s/g+//
19:13:36 <MaryJo> rrsagent, make minutes
19:13:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/08-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
19:56:15 <korn> korn has left #wcag2ict