16:02:33 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
16:02:33 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-html-a11y-irc
16:02:41 <hober> RRSAgent, start conference
16:02:41 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'start conference', hober.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:03:52 <MichaelC> trackbot, start meeting
16:03:54 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:03:54 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-a11y
16:03:56 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
16:03:56 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 63 minutes ago
16:03:57 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
16:03:57 <trackbot> Date: 07 March 2013
16:05:25 <MichaelC> zakim, this is 2119
16:05:25 <Zakim> ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM
16:05:34 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P16 is Michael_Cooper
16:05:35 <Zakim> +Michael_Cooper; got it
16:05:39 <MichaelC> zakim, Apple is hober
16:05:39 <Zakim> +hober; got it
16:05:44 <MichaelC> zakim, Ipcaller is Steve_Faulkner
16:05:44 <Zakim> +Steve_Faulkner; got it
16:05:53 <Zakim> +Judy
16:05:54 <Zakim> +Rich
16:06:22 <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
16:06:29 <JF> JF has joined #html-a11y
16:07:05 <janina> Still not getting in !!
16:07:20 <SteveF> agenda+ Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
16:07:21 <SteveF> agenda+ Longdesc Update http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Feb/0075.html
16:07:23 <SteveF> agenda+ Alt in the HTML Spec: Rewriting Sec.4.8.1.1
16:07:24 <Zakim> +??P2
16:07:24 <SteveF> agenda+ Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; AAPI Mapping;
16:07:26 <SteveF> agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
16:07:27 <SteveF> agenda+ Other Business
16:07:29 <SteveF> agenda+ Identify Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
16:07:30 <SteveF> agenda+ be done
16:07:54 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P2 is Janina_Sajka
16:07:54 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
16:08:02 <MichaelC> zakim, who is noisy?
16:08:12 <Zakim> MichaelC, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Janina_Sajka (79%), John_Foliot (15%), Rich (19%)
16:08:40 <paulc> paulc has joined #html-a11y
16:08:40 <MichaelC> zakim, who is noisy?
16:08:51 <Zakim> MichaelC, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Janina_Sajka (49%), John_Foliot (19%), Rich (25%)
16:10:26 <richardschwerdtfeger> scribe: Rich
16:11:07 <MichaelC> zakim, close item 1
16:11:07 <Zakim> agendum 1, Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List, closed
16:11:10 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:11:10 <Zakim> 2. Longdesc Update http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Feb/0075.html [from SteveF]
16:11:31 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
16:11:31 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Longdesc Update http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Feb/0075.html" taken up [from SteveF]
16:12:01 <paulc> Cannot join by phone since I am at the YVR airport.
16:12:15 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: It has passed the HTML working group and will be published as a first public working draft
16:12:18 <paulc> Please let me know if my phone attendance is Mandatory
16:12:21 <richardschwerdtfeger> judy: yay!
16:12:51 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: conformance would mean you use longdesc in HTML
16:12:58 <Judy> Judy has joined #html-a11y
16:13:03 <Judy> q+
16:14:13 <richardschwerdtfeger> judy: for any accessibility document we ordinarily try to do some explaining of it. Shawn Henry, as a member of EO, helps with that. We received a number of questions of what it was and how it fit in with other resources.
16:14:31 <richardschwerdtfeger> judy: a lot of people really don't understand what the extension view is wrt. HTML5
16:15:36 <richardschwerdtfeger> judy: with longdesc we need to take advantage of educating people on the changes in the spec.
16:15:54 <richardschwerdtfeger> judy: there are questions regarding "is this part of the spec.?"
16:16:02 <richardschwerdtfeger> judy: we need to do coordination.
16:16:14 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: shawn is going to put that together?
16:16:16 <richardschwerdtfeger> judy: yes
16:17:24 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: So thinking of the things we should say is that first public working drafts trigger a patent review
16:17:35 <richardschwerdtfeger> jf: do we have a review timeline?
16:17:50 <paulc> The patent review timeline is automatic
16:18:00 <richardschwerdtfeger> judy: the work happens concurrently
16:18:08 <paulc> Ian Jacobs will send out a note to the WG
16:18:09 <richardschwerdtfeger> john: when will the validator be updated?
16:19:14 <richardschwerdtfeger> judy: the validator should update should happen relatively quickly post working draft release
16:19:34 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: this will not happen overnight
16:19:45 <richardschwerdtfeger> Rich: what about
16:19:56 <richardschwerdtfeger> Rich: What about ARIA?
16:20:03 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: there are several bugs.
16:20:26 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: the bugs need to be reported.
16:20:57 <paulc> Has the validator been updated for other extensions specs?
16:20:58 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: the implementation is from Henry Sivonen 2 years ago
16:21:22 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: mike smith updates the validator
16:21:30 <hober> Zakim, who is making noise?
16:21:35 <paulc> Not me
16:21:40 <Zakim> hober, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Janina_Sajka (49%), Cynthia_Shelly (34%)
16:21:53 <hober> Zakim, mute Cynthia_Shelly
16:21:53 <Zakim> Cynthia_Shelly should now be muted
16:23:45 <richardschwerdtfeger> rich: the reason I was asking about landmarks was we needed the validator to validate aria landmarks in the aria spec.
16:24:15 <SteveF> reporting validator bugs http://validator.w3.org/nu/about.html#bugs
16:25:01 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: We will work on suggested edits.
16:25:19 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: We may use longdesc to replace table summary
16:25:35 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: then there is a process to go through last call
16:25:36 <paulc> Janina, what "edits"?
16:26:27 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: we will then go through candidate recommendation.
16:26:42 <JF> Q+
16:26:52 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: we need to show implementability. If we have it we can ask to have the spec. rolled back in to the HTML5 spec.
16:27:03 <richardschwerdtfeger> judy: this is where we need to address messaging.
16:27:26 <richardschwerdtfeger> judy: we need factual background to put in writing
16:28:28 <paulc> Are there any bugs open on this spec?
16:28:39 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: the first public working draft is a draft. There may be some edits to the longdesc spec.
16:29:00 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: based on feedback
16:29:18 <SteveF> paulc: Has the validator been updated for other extensions specs? yes validator supports other extension specs
16:29:25 <JF> ack JF
16:29:39 <paulc> apparently there are zero bugs: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/buglist.cgi?list_id=5979&query_format=advanced&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&component=HTML%20Image%20Description%20Extension&product=HTML%20WG
16:29:41 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: we may choose to not make any edits
16:30:04 <paulc> <thanks steve>
16:30:31 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: perhaps he has forgotten that this would happen.
16:30:32 <janina> Paul, we're simply discussing various possibilities between FPWD and LC
16:30:56 <SteveF> paulc : note also its explicitly called out in plan 2014 that longdesc validation support wold occur
16:31:04 <janina> One possibility with strong support is to leave things as they are
16:31:05 <Zakim> -Judy
16:31:09 <richardschwerdtfeger> s/wold/would/
16:31:32 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: the further we try to push it the more push back we are going to get
16:31:48 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: if we expand its scope we will get more push back
16:32:01 <Zakim> +Judy
16:32:24 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: My understanding is that Charles' position on longdesc is that the current implementations while provide enough support for it to go to recommendation.
16:32:28 <paulc> Steve:  I wrote the text "Additionally, the W3C staff will watch for drafts being published and keep the W3C validator up to date as appropriate."
16:32:56 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: We highly expect that ARIA 1.1 will take up aria-describedat
16:33:10 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: We will then decide if the ARIA approach is sufficient
16:33:24 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: Do we want to widen this beyond AT users.
16:33:34 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: We have had pieces of this in the past.
16:34:03 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: we are talking about the performance discussion.
16:34:09 <paulc> See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-admin/2013Feb/0259.html for Silvia's disagreement with Charles' position.
16:34:27 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: I am unclear about the validation part
16:34:51 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: I was under the impression that validation would be supported when longdesc reached first public working draft.
16:35:40 <janina> Paul, any chance you can dialin briefly?
16:35:54 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: anything else?
16:36:00 <paulc> getting setup
16:36:11 <paulc> zakim, what is the code?
16:36:11 <Zakim> the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), paulc
16:36:31 <richardschwerdtfeger> jf: Silvia had a note about merging into HTML5.0 as being inconsistent with current implementations
16:36:34 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
16:36:45 <JF> from silvia: Note that I maintain reservations about merging it both into HTML5.0
16:36:47 <paulc> zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
16:36:47 <Zakim> +paulc; got it
16:36:47 <JF> (because of inconsistent current implementations) and HTML5.1 (because of
16:36:48 <JF> the need for a more generic replacement attribute on all replaced
16:36:50 <JF> elements). These are not relevant to this CfC at this time, but calls for
16:36:51 <JF> action.
16:36:58 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: He does want it into HTML5
16:37:21 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: he does NOT want it into HTML5 (correction)
16:37:45 <paulc> Mike Smith has informed to Chairs "I wanted to give you guys a heads-up that I will be away from March 9 until March 19"
16:38:02 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: of those on the call there is a strong preference to leave things as they are.
16:38:48 <richardschwerdtfeger> paulc: I suggest the task force file a bug regarding an expansion of longdesc and then discuss it.
16:39:38 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: we could point to the fact that other work is being done to encompass the other needs desired for a longdesc extension
16:40:24 <richardschwerdtfeger> paulc: silvia thought the implementations were consistent enough to cover what was in the spec draft change.
16:40:45 <richardschwerdtfeger> paulc: she does not think that longdesc should be expanded.
16:41:24 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: note that Mike C will be away
16:41:59 <richardschwerdtfeger> paulc: in the past month or so Robin and Mike have been splitting the responsibility for getting the first public working draft published.
16:42:35 <richardschwerdtfeger> paulc: Since Mike has indicated he would be away that one of us forward the working group decision to publish to Robin so that it  can get published.
16:42:44 <richardschwerdtfeger> paulc: I need to go in the next couple of minutes
16:43:03 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: we are going engage the WAI messaging machine
16:43:39 <richardschwerdtfeger> judy: it provides an explanatory assist
16:44:05 <SteveF> zakim, next item
16:44:05 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, SteveF
16:44:15 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
16:44:20 <richardschwerdtfeger> q?
16:44:33 <richardschwerdtfeger> q?
16:44:34 <Judy> ack j
16:44:39 <SteveF> zakim, next item
16:44:39 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Alt in the HTML Spec: Rewriting Sec.4.8.1.1" taken up [from SteveF]
16:45:01 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: this is a recap of what we discussed here at our last meeting
16:45:30 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: we can leave things and then fix them in this section. The introduction will change and I have a draft I will deliver for next week
16:45:49 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: we can change things as if we are starting from scratch
16:45:59 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: is this the right explanation of alt?
16:46:17 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: we will point to other documents an to WCAG in the spec. itself.
16:46:52 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: it is important that if we are synching from a blank page to determine what is appropriate. We need to close on this relatively soon.
16:48:10 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: we need to look at what is slightly missing
16:48:19 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: we don't need to use all of it wholesale.
16:49:11 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: from perspective as one of the editors of html5 I need to process these things in the context of the rest of the spec. and review them as we go on to the next.
16:49:27 <SteveF> zakim, next item
16:49:27 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; AAPI Mapping;" taken up [from SteveF]
16:49:56 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: Leoni will start those meetings up again next week.
16:50:16 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: David wanted to review the document.
16:51:08 <richardschwerdtfeger> judy: the text sub team needed information from people in this meeting and not necessarily people in the subteam
16:51:55 <richardschwerdtfeger> judy: … like fig caption word count. We are not meeting for now. the only counter consideration is that we don't have a big enough chunk of time to make headway outside this meeting.
16:52:30 <richardschwerdtfeger> judy: I will be away next week but possibly the next week would work
16:52:45 <richardschwerdtfeger> q?
16:52:47 <hober> Zakim, unmute Cynthia_Shelly
16:52:47 <Zakim> Cynthia_Shelly was not muted, hober
16:52:57 <SteveF> ack Cynthia_Shelly
16:53:11 <richardschwerdtfeger> cynthia: I just wanted to say I was here when we had the discussion at CSUN
16:53:28 <richardschwerdtfeger> cynthia: we have a good plan going forward. will do a bug a week.
16:53:46 <richardschwerdtfeger> cynthia: we will have bugs at end of day every friday with an email to that effect.
16:54:16 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: apologies to anyone who turned up last week.
16:54:28 <SteveF> zakim, next item
16:54:28 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open" taken up [from SteveF]
16:54:46 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make log public
16:54:54 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:54:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-html-a11y-minutes.html richardschwerdtfeger
16:55:11 <richardschwerdtfeger> Topic: Action 22
16:55:14 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: that is on me
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16:55:44 <SteveF> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/155
16:55:47 <richardschwerdtfeger> Topic: Action 155
16:55:55 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: that is on John
16:56:11 <richardschwerdtfeger> jf: I did send an email to UAIG
16:56:25 <SteveF> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/154
16:56:44 <richardschwerdtfeger> Topic: Action 154
16:56:49 <richardschwerdtfeger> jf: I don't know what that is
16:57:05 <richardschwerdtfeger> Topic: Action 152
16:57:17 <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: close action 152
16:57:32 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve completed
16:57:39 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: completed
16:58:38 <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: close action 150
16:58:39 <JF> Steve: re Action 154. I believe this remains a problem, can we add it to next weeks agenda?
16:58:39 <SteveF> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/150
16:59:13 <SteveF> zakim, next item
16:59:13 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Other Business" taken up [from SteveF]
16:59:17 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: we should let everyone know we are changing clocks on Sunday
16:59:42 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: Europe will be an hour earlier for a few weeks
16:59:57 <richardschwerdtfeger> janina: spring forward, fall back
17:00:23 <richardschwerdtfeger> jf: action 154, please put on next week's agenda
17:00:29 <Zakim> -John_Foliot
17:00:46 <SteveF> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/154
17:01:28 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: there has been activity on the table summary bug
17:01:42 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: I will provide an aria technique to the table summary technique
17:01:58 <richardschwerdtfeger> steve: Robin though it was a good idea.
17:02:34 <janina> zakim, bye
17:02:34 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were John_Foliot, Michael_Cooper, hober, Steve_Faulkner, Judy, Rich, Cynthia_Shelly, Janina_Sajka, paulc
17:02:34 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-a11y
17:02:40 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
17:02:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/07-html-a11y-minutes.html janina
17:09:38 <janina> janina has changed the topic to: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference; Thursday 14 March at 15:00Z for 60 minutes
18:20:26 <Judy> Judy has joined #html-a11y
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