15:41:16 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
15:41:16 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/03/06-forms-irc
15:41:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:41:18 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #forms
15:41:20 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be IA_XForms
15:41:20 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_XForms()11:00AM scheduled to start in 19 minutes
15:41:21 <trackbot> Meeting: Forms Working Group Teleconference
15:41:21 <trackbot> Date: 06 March 2013
15:41:49 <nvdbleek> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Mar/0001.html
15:41:56 <nvdbleek> Regrets: Steven
15:42:01 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Mar/0001.html
15:42:37 <nvdbleek> Chair: Nick
15:58:24 <nvdbleek> zakim, code?
15:58:24 <Zakim> the conference code is 93676 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), nvdbleek
15:59:06 <Zakim> IA_XForms()11:00AM has now started
15:59:14 <Zakim> +??P25
15:59:23 <nvdbleek> zakim, I am P25
15:59:23 <Zakim> sorry, nvdbleek, I do not see a party named 'P25'
15:59:39 <nvdbleek> zakim, I am ??P25
15:59:39 <Zakim> +nvdbleek; got it
16:00:59 <alain> alain has joined #forms
16:03:27 <ebruchez> ebruchez has joined #forms
16:03:57 <Zakim> +ebruchez
16:08:03 <unl> unl has joined #forms
16:11:37 <Zakim> +unl
16:12:47 <alain> Hello! Yes I can.
16:13:50 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:14:07 <nvdbleek> Topic: Call times next week and the week after
16:14:07 <nvdbleek> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Mar/0000.html
16:14:38 <alain> Zakim, I am [IPcaller]
16:14:38 <Zakim> ok, alain, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
16:14:47 <nvdbleek> scribe: nick
16:14:53 <nvdbleek> scribenick:nvdbleek
16:15:24 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: For the Europe people due to DST the next two weeks the call will be one hour later
16:15:36 <nvdbleek> Topic: AVTs and deprecated child elements
16:15:36 <nvdbleek> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Jan/0023.html
16:16:23 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: I already handled the wrongly depricated the mediatype element of upload in favor of @mediatype
16:16:23 <nvdbleek> is plain wrong. I'll send another mail on this topic.
16:17:03 <unl> s/depricated/deprecated
16:17:09 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: For the other elements ili wants to make it more visible
16:17:53 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: Would it be enough if we bold the deprecated word?
16:18:14 <nvdbleek> unl: I will have a look at other W3C specs
16:19:08 <nvdbleek> ACTION unl To have a look at how other specifications style deprecated elements/attributes and come with a proposal for styling in the XForms Sepc
16:19:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1936 - Have a look at how other specifications style deprecated elements/attributes and come with a proposal for styling in the XForms Sepc [on Ulrich Nicolas Lissé - due 2013-03-13].
16:19:17 <nvdbleek> s/Sepc/Spec/
16:19:35 <nvdbleek> Topic: The xforms-script-language-not-supported-exception Event / The xforms-script-exception Event
16:19:36 <nvdbleek> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-forms/2013Jan/0027.html
16:21:08 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: Discussed this a couple of calls ago, we thought of maybe dropping the script elements
16:21:39 <nvdbleek> alain: I think it is useful in actions
16:23:20 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: We found it very useful for javascript, and also use it to call XPath functions with side effects.. But we have a proposal to do it with an action element with an extra type attribute on the action element
16:23:59 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: Script has the benefit of being an element in HTML
16:25:08 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: How do you do this in xsltforms?
16:25:34 <ebruchez> <xf:load resource="javascript:foo()"/>
16:25:36 <nvdbleek> alain: Not yet possible xsltforms, but it is useful in the future
16:26:37 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: what happens if there is exception in javascript? Do you wrap it in an XForms element.
16:26:46 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: currently we don't
16:27:36 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: The load hack is only useful for short expressions. But it supports AVT's in the script we don't have a way to pass in parameters
16:28:18 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: if we allow the script element as a child of function then you have a way to pass in parameters
16:29:03 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: then you call the xpath function to invoke it?
16:29:49 <ebruchez> http://wiki.orbeon.com/forms/projects/client-side-api-for-custom-javascript-widgets
16:30:13 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: Yes, oh but we don't have a way to invoke an Xpath function in an action. We also said that our functions shouldn't have side effects and certainly not change instance data
16:31:47 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: A plain script element is useful, but is missing some features like passing in parameters, getting the value back, ...
16:32:14 <nvdbleek> alain: I think XQuery is the only good solution for this
16:33:05 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: I don't think a lot of XForms implementations have XQuery support
16:33:49 <nvdbleek> alain: I don't know if the script element should be in the XForms 2.0 time frame
16:33:56 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: maybe postpone it
16:34:33 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: Uli what do you think about it?
16:35:13 <nvdbleek> unl: I don't think we should postpone it, my only concern was the name of the script related events
16:35:38 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: the super long event name should go
16:36:06 <nvdbleek> unl: I was thinking of a compute exception with context info
16:37:12 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: until now the compute exception is only send in binding expressions
16:37:31 <nvdbleek> unl: What do you send when an action fails
16:37:53 <ebruchez> http://wiki.orbeon.com/forms/welcome/xforms-error-handling
16:37:55 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: We implemented something new, because we want to recover from failing actions
16:38:27 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: ebruchez we have an xxforms-action-error
16:39:03 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: We stopped sending the compute and binding-exception because they are stopping processing and don't make sense for us
16:40:12 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: We dispatch those events, and they don't stop XForms processing
16:40:22 <nvdbleek> unl: That is not compliant to the spec then?
16:40:33 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: you are correct
16:41:45 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: what do you think of an xforms-action-error event instead of the two events?
16:42:29 <nvdbleek> unl: I would reuse an existing event
16:42:55 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: any xpath expression can fail (with a dynamic expression)
16:44:08 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: for the spec when xpath expression fails a compute exception occurs and processing stops
16:44:13 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: but that is wrong
16:44:46 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: Agreed, but reworking that will be a lot of work and not feasible for XForms 2.0
16:44:59 <nvdbleek> unl: Aggreed
16:45:48 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: Adding a general event like xforms-action-error and currently only use it for very specific cases, but broaden it in the future
16:46:03 <ebruchez> xforms-action-error
16:46:25 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: I find the name compute-exception not a clear name for me for an action that fails
16:46:35 <nvdbleek> unl: is it fatal?
16:46:53 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: It is an error, so it would not stop processing
16:47:03 <nvdbleek> unl: We should review all actions
16:48:06 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: We have for example the load action 'If the link traversal fails, then an implementation-specific means of conveying the link traversal failure occurs.'
16:49:11 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: we only have a dozen actions, and not a lot can fail I think, beside xpath errors, and other just don't do anything on failure (e.g.: toggle with invalid ID doesn't do anything)
16:49:32 <nvdbleek> ebruchez: xforms-action-error is a good name
16:50:06 <nvdbleek> nvdbleek: I also think that the name is better, and future proof
16:51:49 <nvdbleek> unl: are we with enough people to make resolution
16:52:11 <nvdbleek> unl: Could you send a proposal before
16:54:18 <nvdbleek> ACTION nvdbleek to write a proposal for the xforms-action-error event instead of the current script exceptions.
16:54:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1937 - Write a proposal for the xforms-action-error event instead of the current script exceptions. [on Nick Van Den Bleeken - due 2013-03-13].
16:55:28 <Zakim> -ebruchez
16:55:28 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
16:55:30 <Zakim> -unl
16:55:36 <alain> alain has left #forms
16:55:47 <nvdbleek> tarckbot, end meeting
16:56:41 <nvdbleek> trackbot, end meeting
16:56:41 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:56:41 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been nvdbleek, ebruchez, unl, [IPcaller]
16:56:49 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:56:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/03/06-forms-minutes.html trackbot
16:56:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:56:50 <RRSAgent> I see no action items