IRC log of prov on 2013-02-28

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:53:04 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #prov
15:53:04 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/02/28-prov-irc
15:53:06 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
15:53:06 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #prov
15:53:08 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be PROV
15:53:08 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
15:53:09 [trackbot]
Meeting: Provenance Working Group Teleconference
15:53:09 [trackbot]
Date: 28 February 2013
15:53:16 [pgroth]
Zakim, this will be PROV
15:53:16 [Zakim]
ok, pgroth; I see SW_(PROV)11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
15:53:28 [pgroth]
Agenda: http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.02.28
15:53:39 [pgroth]
Chair: Paul Groth
15:53:46 [pgroth]
Scribe: Curt Tilmes
15:53:52 [pgroth]
rrsagent, make logs public
15:54:21 [pgroth]
Regrets: Luc Moreau, Stephan Zednik
15:55:14 [ctrim]
ctrim has joined #PROV
15:56:10 [Paolo]
Paolo has joined #prov
15:57:08 [Curt]
Curt has joined #prov
15:57:14 [Zakim]
SW_(PROV)11:00AM has now started
15:57:22 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
15:57:29 [smiles]
smiles has joined #prov
15:57:32 [GK]
GK has joined #prov
15:57:33 [pgroth]
Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
15:57:33 [Zakim]
+pgroth; got it
15:57:35 [Zakim]
+Curt_Tilmes
15:57:51 [Zakim]
+ +1.661.382.aaaa
15:58:02 [Zakim]
+??P28
15:58:04 [ctrim]
ctrim: Zakim, aaaa is me
15:58:11 [ctrim]
Zakim, aaaa is me
15:58:11 [Zakim]
+ctrim; got it
15:58:12 [smiles]
zakim, ??P28 is me
15:58:13 [Zakim]
+smiles; got it
15:58:31 [Zakim]
+??P30
15:58:47 [GK]
zakim, ??p30 is me
15:58:48 [Zakim]
+GK; got it
15:59:45 [stain]
stain has changed the topic to: Provenance WG - http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/ - http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.02.28
16:00:00 [stain]
(love it when zakim just gives up before asking for the code..)
16:00:11 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
16:00:22 [stain]
Zakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:00:22 [Zakim]
+stain; got it
16:00:51 [hook]
hook has joined #prov
16:01:12 [Zakim]
+OpenLink_Software
16:01:30 [Zakim]
+ +1.818.731.aabb
16:01:53 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
16:02:02 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller.a]
16:02:05 [Chrsistine]
Chrsistine has joined #prov
16:02:21 [pgroth]
Topic: Admin
16:02:32 [pgroth]
http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/meeting/2013-02-21
16:02:41 [Curt]
scribe: Curt
16:02:50 [pgroth]
Minutes of Feb 21, 2013
16:02:51 [dgarijo]
dgarijo has joined #prov
16:02:54 [smiles]
+1
16:02:55 [Curt]
+1
16:03:01 [stain]
0 (not there)
16:03:08 [hook]
+1
16:03:12 [dgarijo]
+1
16:03:18 [satya]
satya has joined #prov
16:03:32 [GK]
+1
16:03:35 [jcheney]
jcheney has joined #prov
16:03:47 [Dong]
Dong has joined #prov
16:03:53 [Zakim]
+??P13
16:03:54 [Zakim]
+Satya_Sahoo
16:03:56 [pgroth]
accept: Minutes of Feb 21, 2013 telcon
16:04:00 [dgarijo]
Zakim, ??P13 is me
16:04:01 [Zakim]
+dgarijo; got it
16:04:03 [Zakim]
-Satya_Sahoo
16:04:07 [Zakim]
+ +44.131.467.aacc
16:04:13 [jcheney]
zakim, aacc is me
16:04:13 [Zakim]
+jcheney; got it
16:04:34 [Zakim]
+Satya_Sahoo
16:04:41 [pgroth]
Topic: PR update
16:04:42 [Curt]
pgroth: scribes, need them
16:05:06 [Curt]
pgroth: director's call for PR coming up
16:05:13 [Curt]
pgroth: next friday
16:05:20 [SamCoppens]
SamCoppens has joined #prov
16:05:23 [Curt]
pgroth: everything should be staged by then
16:05:58 [pgroth]
prov:hasProvenance
16:05:59 [Curt]
pgroth: need to update link headers to lowercase for link relations
16:06:03 [pgroth]
prov:has_provenance
16:06:24 [ivan]
zakim, dial ivan-voip
16:06:24 [Zakim]
ok, ivan; the call is being made
16:06:25 [Zakim]
+Ivan
16:06:33 [khalidBelhajjame]
khalidBelhajjame has joined #prov
16:06:47 [Zakim]
+TomDN
16:06:53 [Zakim]
+Luc
16:06:59 [pgroth]
topic: wasQuotedFrom
16:07:05 [SamCoppens]
zakim, TomDN is me
16:07:05 [pgroth]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-prov-wg/2013Feb/0289.html
16:07:05 [Zakim]
+SamCoppens; got it
16:07:14 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller.aa]
16:07:17 [SamCoppens]
zakim, mute me
16:07:17 [Zakim]
SamCoppens should now be muted
16:07:45 [Curt]
pgroth: reviewer issue with primer description of wasQuotedFrom, proposed response circulated
16:08:26 [Curt]
smiles: changed example to be very clear about the quote relationship
16:08:39 [Curt]
pgroth: any objections to that response?
16:08:41 [pgroth]
q?
16:08:52 [smiles]
OK, thanks, will do
16:09:03 [Curt]
pgroth: smiles should send the response
16:09:10 [pgroth]
Topic: Notes
16:09:35 [pgroth]
http://www.w3.org/2011/prov/wiki/PublicationRequestMarch12
16:09:53 [Curt]
pgroth: All notes should be ready for synchronized release on March 12
16:10:03 [SamCoppens]
zakim, TomDN is with me
16:10:03 [Zakim]
+TomDN; got it
16:10:27 [Curt]
pgroth: need to be sent by March 5 to be ready to publish on March 12
16:10:35 [pgroth]
q?
16:10:38 [TomDN]
TomDN has joined #prov
16:10:51 [TomDN]
Zakim, TomDN is with SamCoppens
16:10:51 [Zakim]
TomDN was already listed in SamCoppens, TomDN
16:11:11 [pgroth]
sub-topic: prov-dc
16:11:43 [Curt]
dgarijo: some small issues will be addressed today or tomorrow
16:11:48 [pgroth]
q?
16:12:05 [pgroth]
PROPOSED: to publish prov-dc as a WD Note.
16:12:12 [ivan]
+1
16:12:13 [dgarijo]
+1
16:12:13 [smiles]
+1
16:12:15 [stain]
+1
16:12:15 [SamCoppens]
+1
16:12:20 [Dong]
+1
16:12:21 [Curt]
+1
16:12:23 [TomDN]
+1
16:12:24 [hook]
+1
16:12:26 [dgarijo]
+q
16:12:27 [satya]
+1
16:12:28 [jcheney]
+1
16:12:39 [GK]
(abstain - not reviewed)
16:12:59 [Curt]
dgarijo: Kai engaged DC people to solicit feedback after release
16:13:05 [pgroth]
accepted: to publish prov-dc as a WD Note.
16:13:06 [GK]
Is this being released as NOTEW or WD?
16:13:21 [GK]
Ah, thanks. Then +1
16:13:24 [Curt]
pgroth: will be a working draft, not yet a released note
16:13:58 [pgroth]
q?
16:14:00 [Curt]
pgroth: We will refer the WD to the DC community for their review and for them to recommend as part of DC recommendations
16:14:01 [pgroth]
ack dgarijo
16:14:07 [dgarijo]
Also, we have to explore the relation between dct:provenance and prov:has_provenance
16:14:13 [pgroth]
q?
16:14:20 [pgroth]
sub-topic: prov-sem
16:14:36 [TomDN]
@Graham: everything is WD-NOTE except PROV-DM, -Constraints, -N and -O I think
16:15:16 [Curt]
jcheney: current version has clearly marked places for more work, released monday, some reviews in, waiting for Paolo
16:15:41 [Curt]
jcheney: general consensus to release WD, some questions remain to resolve
16:15:41 [satya]
@James, Paolo also sent comments on Feb 27
16:15:58 [GK]
@Tom thanks (proposal was originally just NOTE)
16:16:09 [pgroth]
q?
16:16:15 [Paolo]
I can send them again
16:16:26 [pgroth]
proposed: to publish prov-sem as a first public working draft
16:16:33 [smiles]
+1
16:16:34 [satya]
+1
16:16:37 [dgarijo]
+1
16:16:39 [Curt]
+1
16:16:39 [hook]
+1
16:16:39 [khalidBelhajjame]
+1 (University of Manchester)
16:16:41 [TomDN]
+1
16:16:41 [pgroth]
+1
16:16:41 [GK]
@Tom, or so I thought p- I read "WG Note" ;)
16:16:47 [GK]
+1
16:16:52 [Dong]
+1
16:17:07 [ivan]
+1
16:17:09 [stain]
+1
16:17:14 [TallTed]
+1
16:17:19 [Paolo]
+1
16:17:23 [SamCoppens]
+1
16:17:40 [pgroth]
accepted: to publish prov-sem as a first public working draft
16:17:41 [jcheney]
@Paolo: I found it, no need to resend.
16:17:50 [jcheney]
thx
16:17:56 [pgroth]
sub-topic: prov-xml
16:18:32 [GK]
Curt: believes most comments have been addresses
16:18:40 [hook]
q+
16:18:51 [pgroth]
ack hook
16:19:06 [GK]
… Question about whether qnames have to be qualified … in examples?
16:19:17 [pgroth]
q?
16:19:33 [Curt]
q+
16:19:43 [pgroth]
ack curt
16:20:13 [stain]
<:fred> is not a valid qname, but <fred> is
16:20:24 [stain]
s/is/has/g
16:20:49 [Curt]
q+
16:20:54 [pgroth]
ack Curt
16:21:56 [GK]
I note that http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml-names/#Conformance defines a notion of namespace-well-formed separately from XML well-formed
16:21:58 [Curt]
It would be fine to go either way, it is a minor issue
16:22:37 [Curt]
pgroth: have tim and stain reviewed yet?
16:23:02 [GK]
"Namespace constraint: Prefix Declared
16:23:02 [GK]
The namespace prefix, unless it is xml or xmlns, MUST have been declared in a namespace declaration attribute in either the start-tag of the element where the prefix is used or in an ancestor element (i.e., an element in whose http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-xml/#dt-content the prefixed markup occurs)."
16:23:02 [Curt]
stain: I have not yet done so, but I don't think there are major problems
16:23:12 [pgroth]
q?
16:23:24 [Curt]
pgroth: Other issues with PROV-XML?
16:23:41 [pgroth]
PROPOSED: to publish prov-xml as a working draft note
16:23:48 [TomDN]
+1
16:23:49 [SamCoppens]
+1
16:23:50 [stain]
+1
16:23:50 [Curt]
+1
16:23:52 [ivan]
+1
16:23:55 [GK]
+1
16:23:56 [jcheney]
+1
16:23:56 [satya]
+1
16:23:56 [Dong]
+1
16:23:58 [dgarijo]
+1
16:24:04 [stain]
which thread describes this qname issue btw..?
16:24:35 [hook]
+1
16:24:40 [smiles]
+0 (not reviewed)
16:24:43 [pgroth]
accepted: to publish prov-xml as a working draft note
16:24:43 [khalidBelhajjame]
+1
16:24:52 [stain]
ah, but that would just be the empty namespace if there is none defined. That's a valid qname, but probably does not make much sense in PROV-DM land.
16:25:11 [Curt]
@stain subject "Re: review of prov-xml"
16:25:23 [pgroth]
hard to hear you
16:25:32 [stain]
it's xmlns=""
16:25:41 [TomDN]
we get about 2 words per sentence
16:25:49 [stain]
it breaks out as if there's auto-mute
16:27:02 [Curt]
GK: PROV-AQ has mostly editorial work, 2 major issues: service description, a property relating to the service document
16:27:24 [Curt]
GK: a change to the ping back specification, discussed, changes being documented in the WD
16:27:50 [Curt]
GK: ping back is really another discovery mechanism for provenance
16:28:14 [Curt]
GK: change target uri to entity uri, changing back to target uri, fundamentally editorial, but pervasive
16:29:47 [Curt]
pgroth: We have already voted to release PROV-AQ as a working draft, but there was an objection by stain, but that has now been addressed
16:30:10 [Curt]
pgroth: By Monday, people who did review it, take a final look for blockers to releasing as a WD
16:30:29 [Curt]
pgroth: If there are no objections, will release as a WD
16:30:58 [pgroth]
q?
16:31:00 [GK]
BTW, I've one more thing to do: update the revision log (copied from mercurial log) - but that shouldn't affect reviews
16:31:12 [stain]
what does "by Monday" mean in clock sense?
16:31:12 [pgroth]
proposed: release prov-aq as a working draft if there are no objections by Monday March 4, 2013
16:31:49 [Curt]
GK: does that mean we can release Tuesday?
16:32:01 [Curt]
pgroth: Yes, we will need to stage by Tuesday
16:32:39 [stain]
so we've got over the weekend to re-review PAQ, and then the week after it goes out with the rest ?
16:33:05 [Curt]
GK: I'm busy on that day, can Paul stage?
16:33:09 [Curt]
pgroth: yes, I will stage
16:33:26 [stain]
mm.. so it's a +1 / -1 kind of review
16:33:49 [stain]
fine by me
16:33:53 [Curt]
pgroth: We need to know about blockers/major objections by Monday to get it staged and out
16:33:59 [GK]
@stian thanks
16:34:02 [pgroth]
proposed: release prov-aq as a working draft if there are no objections by Monday March 4, 2013
16:34:10 [smiles]
+1
16:34:10 [khalidBelhajjame]
+1
16:34:11 [GK]
+1
16:34:12 [satya]
+1
16:34:13 [ivan]
+1
16:34:14 [dgarijo]
+1
16:34:14 [Curt]
+1
16:34:15 [TomDN]
+1
16:34:16 [Paolo]
+1
16:34:17 [SamCoppens]
+1
16:34:19 [Dong]
+1
16:34:19 [stain]
+1 (except for the awkward date format! :) )
16:34:19 [jcheney]
+1
16:34:50 [hook]
+1
16:35:05 [Curt]
pgroth: GK - can you send out an email with the URL to review?
16:35:06 [Curt]
GK: yes
16:35:07 [stain]
[ relevant XKCD: http://xkcd.com/1179/ ]
16:35:19 [pgroth]
accepted: release prov-aq as a working draft if there are no objections by Monday March 4, 2013
16:35:43 [pgroth]
sub-topic: other notes
16:36:18 [Curt]
pgroth: need final updates on other notes (primer, overview, links) to point to the right versions of everything
16:36:19 [Zakim]
-ctrim
16:36:27 [pgroth]
Proposed: to publish prov-primer, prov-overview, prov- links as working drafts
16:36:34 [TomDN]
+1
16:36:35 [Curt]
+1
16:36:36 [stain]
+1
16:36:37 [smiles]
+1
16:36:37 [dgarijo]
+1
16:36:38 [ivan]
+1
16:36:39 [jcheney]
+1
16:36:39 [satya]
+1
16:36:39 [SamCoppens]
+1
16:36:46 [khalidBelhajjame]
+1
16:36:56 [GK]
+1
16:37:04 [Paolo]
+1
16:37:11 [pgroth]
accepted: to publish prov-primer, prov-overview, prov- links as working drafts
16:37:30 [dgarijo]
yes
16:38:01 [Curt]
pgroth: staging XML?
16:38:03 [smiles]
yes
16:38:11 [Curt]
Curt: will make sure it gets staged
16:38:24 [Curt]
jcheney: will stage PROV-SEM
16:38:30 [ivan]
q+
16:38:31 [Curt]
jcheney: will discuss process with Luc
16:38:36 [smiles]
Is it a particular time on Tuesday?
16:38:44 [pgroth]
ack ivan
16:38:49 [TomDN]
fyi: we will resolve PROV-Dictionary validation issues on Monday
16:38:54 [pgroth]
i can't hear you
16:39:24 [Curt]
ivan: the web links for document provenance (?)
16:39:34 [ivan]
zakim, unmute
16:39:34 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'unmute', ivan
16:39:45 [pgroth]
zakim, who's noisy?
16:39:56 [Zakim]
pgroth, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: pgroth (38%), Ivan (65%)
16:40:26 [Curt]
pgroth: If you want to include the provenance for your document, tell Ivan where to point the links
16:40:28 [ivan]
you guys should give me all the links to the provenance directory before tuesday
16:40:35 [ivan]
exactly
16:40:35 [ivan]
thanks
16:40:44 [pgroth]
q?
16:41:02 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller.a]
16:41:04 [dgarijo]
bbye
16:41:04 [khalidBelhajjame]
bye
16:41:07 [Zakim]
-Satya_Sahoo
16:41:08 [GK]
Bye
16:41:08 [Dong]
thanks, bye
16:41:09 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller.aa]
16:41:09 [Zakim]
-jcheney
16:41:11 [Zakim]
-Ivan
16:41:12 [stain]
bye
16:41:12 [Zakim]
-pgroth
16:41:14 [Zakim]
-dgarijo
16:41:14 [Zakim]
-SamCoppens
16:41:16 [Zakim]
-Luc
16:41:18 [Zakim]
- +1.818.731.aabb
16:41:20 [pgroth]
rrsagent, set log public
16:41:21 [Zakim]
-stain
16:41:22 [Zakim]
-TallTed
16:41:24 [pgroth]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:41:24 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/28-prov-minutes.html pgroth
16:41:27 [Zakim]
-Curt_Tilmes
16:41:29 [pgroth]
trackbot, end telcon
16:41:29 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
16:41:29 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been pgroth, Curt_Tilmes, +1.661.382.aaaa, ctrim, smiles, GK, stain, TallTed, +1.818.731.aabb, [IPcaller], Satya_Sahoo, dgarijo,
16:41:32 [Zakim]
... +44.131.467.aacc, jcheney, Ivan, Luc, SamCoppens, TomDN
16:41:37 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:41:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/28-prov-minutes.html trackbot
16:41:38 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
16:41:38 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items