IRC log of mlw-lt on 2013-02-25
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-irc
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- 14:55:00 [fsasaki]
- meeting: MLW-LT WG
- 14:55:02 [fsasaki]
- chair: felix
- 14:55:20 [fsasaki]
- agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0241.html
- 14:56:22 [fsasaki]
- regrets: christian, clemens, dom
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- topic: roll call
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- tbd
- 14:56:47 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
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- present+ joerg
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- present+ felix
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- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
- 15:00:52 [fsasaki]
- present+ kfritsche
- 15:00:53 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
- 15:01:31 [Ankit]
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- present+ Ankit
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- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
- 15:02:00 [Des]
- present+ Des
- 15:02:30 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
- 15:02:30 [Pedro]
- present+ Pedro
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- present+ omstefanov
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- present+ Jirka
- 15:03:48 [Yves_]
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- 15:03:58 [Yves_]
- present+ Yves
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- present+ shaunm
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- present+ Marcis
- 15:05:56 [fsasaki]
- scribe: shaunm
- 15:06:20 [fsasaki]
- topic: agenda
- 15:06:20 [fsasaki]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0241.html
- 15:06:43 [fsasaki]
- topic: High level usage scenario doc publication
- 15:07:05 [fsasaki]
- http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Use_cases_-_high_level_summary
- 15:07:24 [fsasaki]
- - having Christian editing the doc until next Monday - vote for publication 6 March call - publication 8 March
- 15:07:38 [pnietoca]
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- 15:07:41 [fsasaki]
- next monday = 4 march
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- 15:07:49 [pnietoca]
- present+ pnietoca
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- 15:08:01 [leroy]
- present+ leroy
- 15:08:19 [shaunm]
- fsasaki: publishing march 8. last date before the workshop
- 15:08:27 [mdelolmo]
- present+ mdelolmo
- 15:08:37 [shaunm]
- fsasaki: Please go through your use cases
- 15:08:42 [fsasaki]
- topic: HTML ITS default behaviour
- 15:08:56 [Milan]
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- 15:09:11 [Giuseppe]
- present + Giuseppe
- 15:09:22 [Milan]
- present+ Milan
- 15:09:38 [Giuseppe]
- present+ Giuseppe
- 15:09:44 [shaunm]
- Yves_: there is discrepancy in behavior between different data categories in HTML
- 15:10:04 [shaunm]
- Yves_: when an author marks up a document because of different behavior in different tools
- 15:10:30 [shaunm]
- Yves_: we don't specify things like the <b> element should be withinText
- 15:11:13 [fsasaki]
- ITS 1.0 global rules are at http://www.w3.org/TR/xml-i18n-bp/#relating-its-plus-xhtml
- 15:11:14 [shaunm]
- Yves_: have a set of global rules for HTML that implementors must use
- 15:11:59 [shaunm]
- Yves_: if you don't implement global rules, this won't work. instead have default attributes
- 15:12:08 [fsasaki]
- default implementation proposal at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0235.html
- 15:12:10 [shaunm]
- Yves_: implementation of such defaults is probably difficult
- 15:12:18 [tadej]
- present+ tadej
- 15:12:32 [fsasaki]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0243.html
- 15:13:41 [shaunm]
- Yves_: implementation is not a problem for okapi
- 15:14:21 [fsasaki]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0205.html
- 15:15:12 [shaunm]
- pnietoca: some MT systems hardcode translation of some attributes
- 15:15:16 [fsasaki]
- https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=21085
- 15:16:32 [shaunm]
- Yves_: currently html translate affects attribute and its:translate does not
- 15:17:28 [fsasaki]
- http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/#datacategories-defaults-etc
- 15:17:51 [shaunm]
- kfritsche: in our implementation, we use defaults
- 15:18:22 [Marcis]
- Will there be a list of defaults somewhere specified? We are currently adding Elements Within Text rules within HTML documents...
- 15:18:58 [pnietoca]
- q+
- 15:19:17 [fsasaki]
- ack pnietoca
- 15:19:43 [shaunm]
- pnietoca: we use global rules for translate, for instance.
- 15:20:03 [shaunm]
- pnietoca: if some people don't use it, you have to hardcode which attributes to translate
- 15:20:53 [shaunm]
- kfritsche: is this the proposal to change the default values in table 8.1?
- 15:21:14 [shaunm]
- Yves_: proposal is to have in the html specification information on defaults
- 15:21:39 [shaunm]
- fsasaki: or we could provide a global rules file
- 15:21:50 [shaunm]
- fsasaki: I was proposing the defaults for people only doing its locally
- 15:22:23 [shaunm]
- Yves_: there's a discrepancy between defaults and global rules because of overriding
- 15:23:15 [shaunm]
- Yves_: people who don't implement ITS globally just have to make sure the behavior with defaults matches what it would be with default values
- 15:24:11 [fsasaki]
- shaun: issue of not knowing what you are overriding with local attributes - that is an issue with any format right?
- 15:24:13 [fsasaki]
- yves: yes
- 15:24:23 [fsasaki]
- shaun: who are the implementers who don't do global rules?
- 15:24:36 [fsasaki]
- http://htmlpreview.github.com/?https://raw.github.com/finnle/ITS-2.0-Testsuite/master/its2.0/testSuiteDashboard.html
- 15:25:04 [fsasaki]
- it seems everybody of the implementers currently on the table, do global rules
- 15:25:20 [fsasaki]
- karl: new implementers might do local markup only - we should be aware of that
- 15:26:16 [fsasaki]
- shaun: there is no implementation difficulty for me either way
- 15:26:56 [shaunm]
- fsasaki: propose not to close this issue too fast
- 15:27:28 [shaunm]
- fsasaki: other people not on the call might have different opinions
- 15:28:16 [shaunm]
- Yves_: implementors could look at their implementations to see how difficult defaults versus global rules is
- 15:28:54 [daveL]
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- fsasaki: give implementors a week, come back to issue next wednesday
- 15:28:57 [daveL]
- present+ davelewis
- 15:29:05 [daveL]
- apologies for joining late
- 15:30:12 [fsasaki]
- topic: https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/68
- 15:31:10 [fsasaki]
- see draft + example files here http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0221.html
- 15:31:16 [shaunm]
- tadej: no major contents changes. sent a draft to the mailing list
- 15:31:39 [shaunm]
- tadej: we are dropping granularity levels, renaming to text analysis, clarified some
- 15:33:32 [fsasaki]
- action: christian to edit issue-68 proposal at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0221.html into the its2 draft
- 15:33:32 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-451 - Edit issue-68 proposal at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/0221.html into the its2 draft [on Christian Lieske - due 2013-03-04].
- 15:33:41 [fsasaki]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2013Feb/att-0221/ta-examples-20130222.zip
- 15:35:27 [shaunm]
- omstefanov: all the file names in the test suite still refer to disambiguation
- 15:35:41 [shaunm]
- tadej: should we rename all the files?
- 15:36:00 [shaunm]
- leroy: yes, and move to directories named for the category
- 15:36:51 [fsasaki]
- topic: Conformance type
- 15:37:15 [fsasaki]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Feb/0048.html
- 15:37:39 [shaunm]
- fsasaki: needs input from Phil. Phil not present today
- 15:37:50 [fsasaki]
- topic: XLIFF mapping
- 15:39:02 [shaunm]
- daveL: xliff round-trip examples for rome help use work through some issues
- 15:39:58 [shaunm]
- daveL: we need separate discussions on how best to present that as best practices. don't spend time on that now. maybe in rome
- 15:40:41 [shaunm]
- Yves_: while discussing terminology, we realized when you tag something in xliff, we don't have a way to mark it up with ITS in the original document
- 15:40:49 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
- 15:41:39 [Marcis]
- A question: if we add mark-up to XLIFF, should we use the mrk or its:span annotation?
- 15:42:11 [shaunm]
- daveL: in XLIFF we can add things after authoring time; don't have local markup for these in ITS
- 15:43:03 [Yves_]
- to marcis: <mrk> (you can't have <its:span> in XLIFF)
- 15:45:39 [shaunm]
- Yves_: you can add ITS attributes to <mrk>. some are redundant with XLIFF attributes
- 15:46:08 [fsasaki]
- http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/XLIFF_Mapping
- 15:47:34 [shaunm]
- daveL: three use cases: mapping from source format to XLIFF, mapping from XLIFF to target format, marking up XLIFF to be consumed in XLIFF in another process
- 15:47:49 [shaunm]
- daveL: ideally have the same markup in all those cases, but might not be possible
- 15:50:41 [fsasaki]
- topic: Unicode normalization / NIF comments , ITS Ontology
- 15:51:17 [fsasaki]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2013Feb/0050.html
- 15:52:55 [shaunm]
- fsasaki: don't require normalization in other technologies. propose to close issue
- 15:53:37 [fsasaki]
- https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/119
- 15:53:44 [fsasaki]
- http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/ITS-RDF_mapping#Ontology_.28DRAFT.29
- 15:54:43 [shaunm]
- daveL: expanded that out of example in NIF
- 15:55:24 [shaunm]
- daveL: took a Relax NG schema and went through data categories to see which could be used in RDF and NIF
- 15:55:30 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
- 15:55:46 [shaunm]
- daveL: appreciate feedback
- 15:56:10 [shaunm]
- daveL: haven't figured out what we need to do with annotators ref. works out in provenance setting, but maybe not NIF
- 15:56:37 [shaunm]
- daveL: problems where we've introduced idea that order has temporal relationship
- 15:58:33 [fsasaki]
- topic: AOB / Rome / Luxembourg prep
- 15:58:48 [fsasaki]
- http://www.doodle.com/2uizhdqmbmw6qwa9
- 15:59:18 [shaunm]
- fsasaki: have a call to prepare for rome meeting. please fill in doodle poll
- 16:01:19 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/25-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
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