15:53:12 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
15:53:12 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-html-a11y-irc
15:53:14 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:53:14 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-a11y
15:53:16 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
15:53:16 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 53 minutes ago
15:53:17 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:53:17 <trackbot> Date: 21 February 2013
15:54:06 <janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference
15:54:06 <janina> Chair: Janina_Sajka
15:54:06 <janina> agenda+ Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
15:54:09 <janina> agenda+ Shall we schedule a CSUN break?
15:54:12 <janina> agenda+ Longdesc Update http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Feb/0093.html
15:54:15 <janina> agenda+ Expanding Editors for "ARIA in HTML" http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Feb/0078.html
15:54:18 <janina> agenda+ Alt in the HTML Spec: Rewriting Sec.4.8.1.1
15:54:20 <janina> agenda+ Epub Workshop Report: Judy Brewer & Janina Sajka
15:54:23 <janina> agenda+ Media Bugs (Continued) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Nov/0040.html
15:54:26 <janina> agenda+ Text Bugs
15:54:28 <janina> agenda+ Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; AAPI Mapping;
15:54:31 <janina> agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
15:54:33 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
15:54:36 <janina> agenda+ Identify Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
15:54:39 <janina> agenda+ be done
15:54:58 <janina> 
15:55:05 <janina> zakim, who's here?
15:55:05 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has not yet started, janina
15:55:06 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, davidb, Stevef, IanPouncey, darobin, MichaelC, janina, hober, trackbot
15:55:32 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has now started
15:55:39 <Zakim> +??P21
15:55:54 <janina> zakim, ??P21 is Janina_Sajka
15:55:54 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
15:56:07 <janina> Chair: Janina_Sajka
15:56:31 <janina> zakim, take up item 1
15:56:31 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List" taken up [from janina]
15:58:51 <Zakim> +??P7
15:59:06 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P7 is Michael_Cooper
15:59:06 <Zakim> +Michael_Cooper; got it
16:00:42 <Zakim> +[Apple]
16:00:58 <hober> Zakim, Apple is me
16:00:58 <Zakim> +hober; got it
16:01:56 <paulc> paulc has joined #html-a11y
16:02:50 <Zakim> +??P42
16:03:12 <Stevef> zakim, ??P42 is me
16:03:12 <Zakim> +Stevef; got it
16:04:41 <Judy> Judy has joined #html-a11y
16:05:19 <Zakim> +Judy
16:05:51 <paulc> zakim, what is the code?
16:05:51 <Zakim> the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), paulc
16:06:07 <Judy> zakim, who's on the phone?
16:06:07 <Zakim> On the phone I see Janina_Sajka, Michael_Cooper, hober, Stevef, Judy
16:06:09 <janina> regrets: leonie
16:06:10 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
16:06:21 <paulc> zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
16:06:21 <Zakim> +paulc; got it
16:06:33 <Judy> agenda?
16:07:14 <MichaelC> scribe: MichaelC
16:07:19 <MichaelC> zakim, close item 1
16:07:20 <Zakim> agendum 1, Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List, closed
16:07:21 <Zakim> I see 12 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:07:21 <Zakim> 2. Shall we schedule a CSUN break? [from janina]
16:07:21 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
16:07:22 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Shall we schedule a CSUN break?" taken up [from janina]
16:07:43 <MichaelC> js: CSUN conference taking place next week, many of us will be there
16:08:02 <MichaelC> RESOLUTION: no meeting 28 February 2013
16:08:08 <MichaelC> next meeting: 7 March 2013
16:08:10 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
16:08:11 <Zakim> agendum 2 was just opened, MichaelC
16:08:15 <MichaelC> zakim, close this item
16:08:15 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
16:08:16 <Zakim> I see 11 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:08:16 <Zakim> 3. Longdesc Update http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Feb/0093.html [from janina]
16:08:16 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
16:08:17 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Longdesc Update http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Feb/0093.html" taken up [from janina]
16:09:01 <MichaelC> js: discovered that the CfC pointed to an old revision
16:09:15 <MichaelC> that didn´t include the changes mentioned in the CfC
16:09:22 <MichaelC> have restarted the CfC with the correct URI
16:09:30 <MichaelC> in both HTML WG and HTML A11Y TF
16:09:47 <MichaelC> no objections yet
16:10:11 <MichaelC> concerns raised around development path that we expect to take up in due course of that path
16:10:28 <Judy> q+
16:10:41 <MichaelC> jb: so when would the new HTML CfC close?
16:11:20 <MichaelC> end of day next Wednesday?
16:11:42 <MichaelC> hopefully MikeS can still publish the following day, 28 Feb
16:11:49 <MichaelC> other process steps that have to be done?
16:12:20 <MichaelC> js: yes, some of the team publication steps aren´t done yet
16:12:30 <MichaelC> mc: that could be front-loaded in advance of closing the CfC
16:13:19 <MichaelC> jb: so guess it couldn´t get published until following week
16:13:32 <MichaelC> mc: could in principle with negotiation with Webmaster and front-loading
16:13:45 <MichaelC> pc: there is a backlog of HTML publications that needs to be cleared
16:13:51 <Judy> q+
16:14:01 <MichaelC> treating first-come first-serve, this would be behind those others
16:14:11 <MichaelC> ack j
16:14:32 <MichaelC> jb: if we get other Team to help out can that help queue it up in advance?
16:14:40 <MichaelC> pc: no problem in principle
16:14:51 <MichaelC> note Transition Request needs a date, document, and short-name
16:15:04 <MichaelC> sent by one of the chairs
16:15:32 <MichaelC> mc: maybe could help out though don´t want to step on Mike / Robin
16:15:41 <MichaelC> is this because of CSUN?
16:15:51 <MichaelC> jb: not critical but want to demonstrate progress
16:16:06 <MichaelC> js: just explaining that it´s legitimately in queue should be good
16:16:09 <MichaelC> jb: ok
16:16:31 <MichaelC> pc: will also try to push out the others
16:16:58 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
16:17:38 <paulc> lost contact
16:17:39 <MichaelC> js: if the spec has a heartbeat, the obsoletion of longdesc might be gone
16:17:50 <MichaelC> sf: not aware of plans for that
16:17:52 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
16:17:58 <MichaelC> just extension specs right now
16:18:35 <MichaelC> pc: will update admin list later today on the pub cycle
16:18:43 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
16:18:43 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Expanding Editors for "ARIA in HTML" http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2013Feb/0078.html" taken up [from janina]
16:19:26 <MichaelC> js: Steve asked to add a couple editors
16:19:46 <MichaelC> noted off list that the candidates work for one organization; unsure of level of concern about that
16:19:58 <Judy> q+
16:20:18 <MichaelC> meanwhile another name came forward that would balance
16:20:34 <MichaelC> ack j
16:20:54 <MichaelC> jb: it´s worth paying attention to that issue
16:21:06 <MichaelC> glad for the multiple support offered
16:21:31 <MichaelC> the balancing would help in workload and representation
16:21:58 <MichaelC> considering representation between PF and HTML WGs
16:23:09 <MichaelC> would like someone who´s in PF to ensure spec accuracy
16:23:17 <MichaelC> sf: that´s about following the spec carefully, and responding to issues that are raised
16:23:40 <MichaelC> js: the main thing we want to look at is not conflicting with the ARIA Authoring Practices
16:24:09 <MichaelC> jb: in part the goal is to ensure the PFWG is stimulated to look more closely via one of these editors
16:25:02 <MichaelC> js: PF has normative docs that are top priorities but is publishing update of Authoring Practices
16:25:04 <MichaelC> important to coordinate content
16:25:38 <MichaelC> sf: the main component of this document is the table that maps HTML elements to AAPI features
16:25:52 <MichaelC> because that´s not clear in HTML spec alone
16:25:57 <Judy> Judy suggests that going forward, the "author" designation could be used to reflect Steve's role developing this doc, and that Gez and David be noted as Editors
16:26:35 <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
16:26:44 <MichaelC> s/AAPI/ARIA/
16:27:32 <MichaelC> js: suggest the editors of the various docs coordinate
16:28:08 <MichaelC> jb: ^
16:28:18 <MichaelC> sf: don´t plan to step away immediately, need to transition them in
16:29:02 <MichaelC> can manage mechanical aspects while they help with content, keep it up to date
16:29:41 <MichaelC> RESOLUTION: David MacDonald, Gez Lemon, Hans Hillen join Steve Faulkner as editor of Using WAI-ARIA in HTML
16:29:49 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
16:29:49 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Alt in the HTML Spec: Rewriting Sec.4.8.1.1" taken up [from janina]
16:30:23 <MichaelC> js: the TF co-facilitators have discussed with Robin Berjon
16:31:15 <MichaelC> Section 4.8.1.1 deals with using alt in HTML, and has sub-sections
16:31:33 <MichaelC> wasn´t clear this particular organization was the best presentation for a spec
16:31:42 <MichaelC> also some of the examples weren´t ideal
16:31:49 <MichaelC> and some guidance conflicted with WCAG recommendations
16:32:20 <MichaelC> Robin said we should think through what the best presentation of this content within the HTML spec should be
16:32:35 <MichaelC> then can look at how it relates to HTML-ISSUE-30 stuff
16:33:06 <MichaelC> I plan to submit content explaining that @alt is in general the best way to handle text alternatives
16:33:11 <MichaelC> but it doesn´t handle all cases
16:33:19 <MichaelC> point to @longdesc extension spec and others
16:33:50 <MichaelC> then need to look at the sub-sections, their order, content, etc.
16:34:11 <MichaelC> will work this out on the HTML WG list
16:34:17 <MichaelC> plan to work iteratively
16:34:34 <MichaelC> because of CSUN, don´t expect progress for a couple weeks
16:34:44 <paulc> q+
16:35:20 <MichaelC> sf: Robin wants to see that the content in the spec continue to be there, but that the form of it is subject to modification
16:35:42 <MichaelC> is ok with updating the specific guidance of sub-sections
16:36:10 <MichaelC> note this has been normative up to now
16:36:20 <MichaelC> plan to keep base guidance normative but examples informative
16:36:29 <MichaelC> js: agreed to leave some authoring guidance in
16:36:38 <MichaelC> but limit to well-established practices
16:36:49 <MichaelC> point elsewhere for guidance that requires more exposition
16:37:05 <MichaelC> ack p
16:37:06 <janina> q?
16:37:22 <MichaelC> pc: is this for 5.0 or 5.1?
16:37:29 <MichaelC> sf: initial plan was 5.1
16:37:45 <janina> q?
16:37:46 <MichaelC> when we arrive at consensus on contents, could port back to 5.0
16:38:00 <MichaelC> pc: as a separate spec, or directly in HTML 5.1?
16:38:02 <MichaelC> sf: directly in 5.1
16:39:42 <MichaelC> sf: one push-back on normative requirements was on things that can´t be machine checked
16:39:52 <MichaelC> could be a reason to reduce some of the normative statements
16:40:10 <MichaelC> since we plan to do this iteratively, not drop a whole bunch of changes in
16:40:15 <MichaelC> perhaps section by section
16:40:27 <MichaelC> we´ll have opportunity to build support piece by piece
16:41:02 <MichaelC> js: early on we should address what the subsections should be and the order they should be in
16:41:07 <MichaelC> then tackle them one by one
16:42:07 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
16:42:07 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Epub Workshop Report: Judy Brewer & Janina Sajka" taken up [from janina]
16:42:37 <MichaelC> jb: W3C held a digital publishing workshop last week
16:42:49 <MichaelC> jointly with International Digital Publishing Forum
16:43:09 <MichaelC> well attended
16:44:03 <MichaelC> lots of a11y interest
16:44:10 <MichaelC> there was a dedicated panel on accessibility moderated by Janina
16:45:07 <MichaelC> covered Digital Rights Management, haptics, aural CSS, educational testing
16:45:20 <MichaelC> looking now at priorities and mode of coordination going forward
16:45:31 <MichaelC> and which parts of W3C work are involved
16:46:14 <MichaelC> js: ePub wants to be as close to HTML 5 as possible
16:46:24 <MichaelC> need to get requirements to the table
16:46:32 <MichaelC> has been done well with mobile
16:46:48 <MichaelC> IDPF doesn´t have much staff availability to get involved
16:47:09 <MichaelC> There was discussion on direct accessibility of graphical content
16:47:09 <MichaelC> haptic was one idea
16:47:15 <MichaelC> also work underway in SVG
16:47:52 <MichaelC> understanding that @alt and @longdesc are workarounds, prefer to move to direct accessibility model
16:48:03 <MichaelC> There was a lot of discussion of MathML
16:48:30 <MichaelC> educational publishers really need it, and have done a lot of work to build support
16:48:40 <MichaelC> but insufficient support in the browsers
16:49:02 <MichaelC> suggestion made to fork the open source projects, though unsatisfactory
16:49:11 <MichaelC> different ideas about how widespread it is
16:49:18 <MichaelC> on the open Web not seen much
16:49:31 <MichaelC> but in walled gardens, such as educational publishing, it´s widespread
16:49:45 <MichaelC> that usage not always visible
16:50:04 <MichaelC> Joining CSS FtF meetings will be one opportunity to explore requirements
16:50:19 <MichaelC> CSS fonts, CJK relationship, line spacing
16:51:12 <MichaelC> pc: so the more successful marketing of HTML 5 and Open Web is
16:51:19 <MichaelC> the more communities like this we need to get on board
16:51:43 <MichaelC> e.g., in the media space, dealing with a requirement to insert advertisements into the media stream
16:51:49 <MichaelC> ¨With success comes more work¨
16:52:19 <MichaelC> jb: in the case of publishing, they´ve wanted to coordinate for a long time
16:52:28 <MichaelC> only considered forking because W3C HTML was progressing slowly
16:52:39 <MichaelC> so think there will be good motiviation to more forward on joint work
16:52:47 <MichaelC> yes, does expand workload on all of us
16:53:48 <MichaelC> There will be questions about what work comes to what parts of W3C
16:54:05 <MichaelC> this TF may need to consider which pieces it gets involved in
16:54:18 <MichaelC> js: hope this can recruit resources to W3C work
16:54:31 <MichaelC> IDPF has good base of adoption
16:54:45 <MichaelC> ePub 3 picked up DAISY
16:54:54 <MichaelC> so we´re not starting from scratch
16:55:34 <MichaelC> zakim, close this item
16:55:34 <Zakim> agendum 6 closed
16:55:35 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:55:35 <Zakim> 7. Media Bugs (Continued) http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Nov/0040.html [from janina]
16:55:41 <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
16:55:50 <Zakim> -Judy
16:55:55 <Zakim> -hober
16:55:56 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
16:55:57 <Zakim> -Stevef
16:55:58 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
16:56:32 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
16:56:33 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has ended
16:56:33 <Zakim> Attendees were Janina_Sajka, Michael_Cooper, hober, Stevef, Judy, paulc, [Microsoft], Cynthia_Shelly
16:56:55 <MichaelC> scribeOptions: -final
16:57:02 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
16:57:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/21-html-a11y-minutes.html MichaelC
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