15:02:17 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
15:02:17 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/02/15-wcag2ict-irc
15:02:18 <andisnow> andisnow has joined #wcag2ict
15:02:19 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:02:19 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #wcag2ict
15:02:21 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2428
15:02:21 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago
15:02:22 <trackbot> Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
15:02:22 <trackbot> Date: 15 February 2013
15:02:58 <korn> Zakim, Oracle has Peter_Korn
15:02:58 <Zakim> sorry, korn, I do not recognize a party named 'Oracle'
15:03:42 <Kiran_Kaja> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:03:42 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has not yet started, Kiran_Kaja
15:03:43 <Zakim> On IRC I see andisnow, RRSAgent, David, korn, alex_, Mike_P, Kiran_Kaja, Loic, greggvanderheiden, MaryJo, Judy, shadi, trackbot
15:04:12 <shadi> zakim, this is wcag2ict
15:04:12 <Zakim> ok, shadi; that matches WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM
15:04:22 <Zakim> +Shadi
15:04:23 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:04:32 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see Gregg_Vanderheiden, +1.512.255.aaaa, David_MacDonald, [Microsoft], Andi_Snow_Weaver, +0162859aabb, ??P26, Judy, [Oracle], Shadi, [IPcaller]
15:04:40 <korn> Zakim, Oracle has Peter_Korn
15:04:40 <Zakim> +Peter_Korn; got it
15:04:42 <Zakim> -Andi_Snow_Weaver
15:04:49 <MaryJo> scribe: Mary_Jo_Mueller
15:04:58 <MaryJo> scribenick: MaryJo
15:05:01 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:05:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see Gregg_Vanderheiden, +1.512.255.aaaa, David_MacDonald, [Microsoft], +0162859aabb, ??P26, Judy, [Oracle], Shadi, [IPcaller]
15:05:03 <Zakim> [Oracle] has Peter_Korn
15:05:16 <MaryJo> zakim, 1.512.255.aaaa has MaryJo
15:05:16 <Zakim> sorry, MaryJo, I do not recognize a party named '1.512.255.aaaa'
15:05:29 <Zakim> +Andi_Snow_Weaver
15:05:36 <MaryJo> chair: Mike_Pluke
15:05:36 <shadi> zakim, aaaa is MaryJo
15:05:36 <Zakim> +MaryJo; got it
15:05:57 <Kiran_Kaja> zakim, +016285 is Kiran_Kaja
15:05:57 <Zakim> +Kiran_Kaja; got it
15:06:18 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:06:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see Gregg_Vanderheiden, MaryJo, David_MacDonald, [Microsoft], Kiran_Kaja, ??P26, Judy, [Oracle], Shadi, [IPcaller], Andi_Snow_Weaver
15:06:21 <Zakim> [Oracle] has Peter_Korn
15:06:56 <Loic> Zakim, ??P26 is me
15:06:56 <Zakim> +Loic; got it
15:07:10 <Kiran_Kaja> Just letting you all know that I will have to drop out in an hour
15:07:17 <shadi> zakim, microsoft has Alex
15:07:17 <Zakim> +Alex; got it
15:07:22 <shadi> zakim, mute me
15:07:22 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
15:07:26 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:07:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see Gregg_Vanderheiden, MaryJo, David_MacDonald, [Microsoft], Kiran_Kaja, Loic, Judy, [Oracle], Shadi (muted), [IPcaller], Andi_Snow_Weaver
15:07:29 <Zakim> [Oracle] has Peter_Korn
15:07:29 <Zakim> [Microsoft] has Alex
15:07:34 <Loic> zakim, mute me
15:07:34 <Zakim> Loic should now be muted
15:07:38 <MaryJo> meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
15:07:40 <shadi> zakim, ipcaller is Mike_P
15:07:40 <Zakim> +Mike_P; got it
15:07:47 <greggvanderheiden> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/cross-cutting-issues-and-notes/remaining-3-scs
15:07:49 <MaryJo> zakim, next item
15:07:49 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
15:08:20 <MaryJo> topic: WCAG feedback on the Final 4
15:08:22 <Mike_P> agenda+ WCAG feedback on the Final 4
15:08:40 <Mike_P> agenda+ First of three surveys on compare/contrast with M376 - Documents
15:08:54 <Mike_P> agenda+ Second of three surveys on compare/contrast with M376 - Software
15:09:05 <Mike_P> agenda+ Action items and plan for next agenda
15:09:16 <Mike_P> agenda+ Confirm next meeting time
15:09:25 <MaryJo> zakim, next item
15:09:25 <Zakim> agendum 1. "WCAG feedback on the Final 4" taken up [from Mike_P]
15:10:19 <Zakim> +??P13
15:10:53 <janina> janina has joined #wcag2ict
15:11:13 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:11:13 <Zakim> On the phone I see Gregg_Vanderheiden, MaryJo, David_MacDonald, [Microsoft], Kiran_Kaja, Loic (muted), Judy, [Oracle], Shadi (muted), Mike_P, Andi_Snow_Weaver, ??P13
15:11:16 <Zakim> [Oracle] has Peter_Korn
15:11:16 <Zakim> [Microsoft] has Alex
15:11:32 <janina> zakim, ??P13 is Janina_Sajka
15:11:32 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
15:11:43 <janina> zakim, mute me
15:11:43 <Zakim> Janina_Sajka should now be muted
15:11:51 <MaryJo> WCAG working group had some edits and updates to our last 4 SC.  The proposed changes are marked up and highlighted in the web page (link above).
15:13:10 <Mike_P> q?
15:14:16 <korn> q+
15:14:31 <korn> +1 to "programs" and to keeping it without parenthesis
15:14:32 <korn> q-
15:14:42 <David> q+
15:14:44 <Loic> q-
15:14:52 <Loic> zakim, unmute me
15:14:52 <Zakim> Loic should no longer be muted
15:14:53 <shadi> ack me
15:15:12 <shadi> q- ??p26
15:15:32 <Loic> zakim, mute me
15:15:32 <Zakim> Loic should now be muted
15:15:33 <shadi> zakim, mute me
15:15:34 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
15:15:37 <greggvanderheiden> ack d
15:18:03 <Mike_P> q?
15:18:54 <David> zakim, who's noisy?
15:19:00 <Mike_P> q+
15:19:08 <Zakim> David, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Gregg_Vanderheiden (5%), [Oracle] (94%)
15:20:09 <janina> zakim, unmute me
15:20:09 <Zakim> Janina_Sajka should no longer be muted
15:20:30 <janina> exit
15:20:35 <MaryJo> A proposed note 8 was added to the 'set of software' definition to explain why we are adding 'program'.
15:20:39 <greggvanderheiden> ack m
15:20:48 <janina> janina has joined #wcag2ict
15:22:19 <korn> Slight Note 8 edit suggestion: "Although  "software" is used throughout this document because this would apply to  stand alone software products as well as INDIVIDUAL software components AND THE SOFTWARE COMPONENTS in  software-hardware products"
15:24:01 <alex_> +1 to Mary Jo
15:25:49 <greggvanderheiden> Note 8:  Although "software" is used throughout this document because this would apply to stand alone software programs as well as individual software components and the software components in software-hardware combinations, the concept of 'Set of software" would only apply (by definition) to products that can be launched separately from each other.  For the "set of" provision therefore  "set of software programs" is used.
15:26:38 <greggvanderheiden> Note 8:  Although "software" is used throughout this document because this would apply to stand alone software programs as well as individual software components and the software components in software-hardware combinations, the concept of 'Set of software" would only apply (by definition) to program that can be launched separately from each other.  For the "set of" provisions therefore  "set of software programs" is used.
15:27:00 <greggvanderheiden> Note 8:  Although "software" is used throughout this document because this would apply to stand alone software programs as well as individual software components and the software components in software-hardware combinations, the concept of 'Set of software" would only apply (by definition) to a program that can be launched separately from each other.  For the "set of" provisions therefore  "set of software programs" is used.
15:27:48 <korn> 2.4.1, 2.4.5, 3.2.3, 3.2.4
15:28:09 <greggvanderheiden> Note 8:  Although "software" is used throughout this document because this would apply to stand alone software programs as well as individual software components and the software components in software-hardware combinations, the concept of 'Set of software" would only apply (by definition) to programs that can be launched separately from each other.  For the "set of" provisions therefore  "set of software programs" is used (2.4.1, 2.4.5,
15:28:09 <greggvanderheiden> 3.2.3, and 3.2.4)
15:28:49 <Zakim> -[Oracle]
15:28:53 <greggvanderheiden> Note 8:  Although "software" is used throughout this document because this would apply to stand alone software programs as well as individual software components and the software components in software-hardware combinations, the concept of 'Set of software" would only apply (by definition) to programs that can be launched separately from each other.  For the "set of" provisions therefore  "set of software programs" is used (success c[CUT]
15:28:54 <greggvanderheiden> 2.4.1, 2.4.5, 3.2.3, and 3.2.4)
15:29:33 <Mike_P> +q
15:29:58 <korn> One more suggestion: "Although THE TERM "software" is used..."
15:30:29 <Zakim> +[Oracle]
15:30:35 <korn> Zakim, Oracle has Peter_KOrn
15:30:35 <Zakim> +Peter_KOrn; got it
15:30:47 <korn> Zakim, Peter_KOrn is Peter_Korn
15:30:47 <Zakim> sorry, korn, I do not recognize a party named 'Peter_KOrn'
15:31:51 <greggvanderheiden> Note 8:  Although "software" is used throughout this document because this would apply to stand alone software programs as well as individual software components and the software components in software-hardware combinations, the concept of 'Set of software" would only apply (by definition) to programs that can be launched separately from each other.  For the provisions that use the phrase = "set of" (success criteria 2.4.1, 2.4.5, 3.2.3,
15:31:51 <greggvanderheiden> and 3.2.4) therefore  "set of software programs" is used .
15:31:55 <korn> "For the four success criteria that use "set of" (2.4.1, 2.4.5, 3.2.3, 3.2.4), the term "set of software programs" is used."
15:32:11 <korn> q+
15:32:23 <Mike_P> q-
15:32:46 <greggvanderheiden> Note 8:  Although "software" is used throughout this document because this would apply to stand alone software programs as well as individual software components and the software components in software-hardware combinations, the concept of 'Set of software" would only apply (by definition) to programs that can be launched separately from each other.  Therefore, for the provisions that use the phrase "set of" (success criteria 2.4.1, [CUT]
15:32:47 <greggvanderheiden> 3.2.3, and 3.2.4), the phrase  "set of software programs" is used .
15:33:39 <greggvanderheiden> Note 8:  Although  the term "software" is used throughout this document because this would apply to stand alone software programs as well as individual software components and the software components in software-hardware combinations, the concept of 'Set of software" would only apply (by definition) to programs that can be launched separately from each other.  Therefore, for the provisions that use the phrase "set of" (success criteria
15:33:39 <greggvanderheiden> 2.4.1, 2.4.5, 3.2.3, and 3.2.4), the phrase "set of software programs" is used .
15:33:58 <greggvanderheiden> (shown separately for the provisions that involve the phrase "set of", to make the substitutions easier to read)
15:37:36 <Loic> Just an editorial comment on note 2. There is "non-web environment" and it should be "non-web environtments" (in plural)
15:38:01 <alex_> q+
15:39:19 <korn> q-
15:40:30 <MaryJo> The edits to SC 2.4.1 are acceptable to those on the call.  For SC 2.4.5, Note 2 was also agreed upon.
15:40:42 <Mike_P> q+
15:40:53 <greggvanderheiden> NOTE 3: An example of  the use of 'a software program that is part of process', that would meet the exception for this SC, would be one where programs are interlinked but the interlinking depends on program A being used before program B, for validation or to initialize the dataset etc.
15:41:00 <MaryJo> Discussion on SC 2.4.5 Note 3 that doesn't seem to have yesterday's comments from the WCAG working group incorporated.
15:41:46 <MaryJo> Documents don't need to be called out specifically, as the similarity to web pages is more obvious.
15:41:53 <Zakim> +Bruce_Bailey
15:43:49 <MaryJo> SCs 3.2.3 and 3.2.4 just had minor edits so these changes look acceptable.
15:43:59 <BBailey> BBailey has joined #wcag2ict
15:46:13 <Loic> zakim, unmute me
15:46:13 <Zakim> Loic should no longer be muted
15:46:15 <MaryJo> RESOLUTION: Accept the WCAG working group proposed changes to the definition of 'set of software' and the last 4 SCs as updated in the meeting.
15:46:27 <MaryJo> zakim, next item
15:46:27 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, MaryJo
15:46:53 <korn> q?
15:46:58 <korn> ack a
15:46:59 <korn> ack M
15:47:05 <korn> zakim, next item
15:47:05 <Zakim> agendum 2. "First of three surveys on compare/contrast with M376 - Documents" taken up [from Mike_P]
15:47:06 <MaryJo> zakim, next item
15:47:08 <Zakim> agendum 2 was just opened, MaryJo
15:48:07 <korn> FYI https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/Jan232013/results
15:48:38 <MaryJo> SC 1.1.1: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/Jan232013/results#xq2
15:49:18 <korn> q+
15:51:31 <Mike_P> q+
15:51:37 <Loic> q+
15:51:50 <korn> q-
15:53:17 <MaryJo> There was general agreement that saying an SC 'automatically complies' is problematic. If the context of a SC doesn't apply because that type of content doesnt exist, then the requirements wouldn't be applicable.
15:53:20 <MaryJo> It would be nice if we could made this clear in general for the document.
15:53:29 <korn> q+
15:54:33 <MaryJo> In the WCAG world, pass is used to say you don't fail the SC, meaning this includes any SC that are not applicable.
15:54:50 <Loic> q-
15:54:58 <Loic> ack Mike_P
15:55:16 <MaryJo> Maybe this can be addressed as part of the conformance model.
15:55:37 <korn> q-
15:55:51 <greggvanderheiden> Q+
15:56:47 <MaryJo> We also need to recognize there are some differences between M376 and WCAG2ICT where we use 'must' and M376 uses 'shall'.
15:58:29 <Zakim> -Kiran_Kaja
15:58:30 <korn> q+
15:59:22 <greggvanderheiden> ack g
16:00:53 <korn> q+
16:01:09 <MaryJo> M376 could address some of the inconsistencies in their provisions by explaining them.
16:01:48 <MaryJo> We'll readdress 1.1.1 later so we can move on in this survey.
16:02:19 <MaryJo> SC 1.4.4: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/Jan232013/results#xq3
16:05:10 <Mike_P> The Task Force agrees that it would be beneficial if the M376 text "Content that has ... ", in 1.4.4, is changed to "Content for which there are..." to align with WCAG2ICT.
16:05:49 <korn> q+
16:06:50 <korn> q-
16:07:30 <MaryJo> For the resolutions we make on this survey in this meeting, we are agreeing to what the best solution would be.  The resolution does not indicate that the WCAG2ICT or W3C take a formal position on M376, but that we individually can submit comments to M376.
16:11:17 <korn> q+
16:11:42 <andisnow_> andisnow_ has joined #wcag2ict
16:11:46 <alex_> q+
16:12:11 <greggvanderheiden> q+
16:15:09 <korn> q-
16:18:14 <Zakim> -Shadi
16:19:19 <Zakim> -Judy
16:19:23 <Zakim> +Judy
16:21:30 <greggvanderheiden> ack a
16:21:33 <greggvanderheiden> ack g
16:21:34 <greggvanderheiden> ack j
16:21:37 <greggvanderheiden> q+
16:24:19 <MaryJo> We are just trying to capture the opinion of the experts so that we have a collective viewpoint.  We can capture any changes to the WCAG2ICT with resolutions, and carefully word the viewpoint using the words 'The TF reviewed the similar language in M376, and it is our considered opinion that the best language to use here is XXX'.
16:26:32 <Loic> q+
16:26:43 <greggvanderheiden> ack g
16:29:21 <Loic> q-
16:29:44 <Judy> Judy has joined #wcag2ict
16:34:13 <korn> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/cross-cutting-issues-and-notes/comparison-to-m376
16:36:14 <MaryJo> To start, we will log the consensus and proposed resolutions into the google comparison table based on the survey.
16:37:08 <Zakim> -Loic
16:37:09 <Zakim> -Bruce_Bailey
16:37:11 <Zakim> -Andi_Snow_Weaver
16:37:12 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
16:37:12 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
16:37:12 <Zakim> -MaryJo
16:37:13 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
16:37:14 <Zakim> -Judy
16:37:14 <janina> janina has left #wcag2ict
16:37:20 <Zakim> -[Oracle]
16:37:24 <Zakim> -Gregg_Vanderheiden
16:37:30 <MaryJo> The next meeting is Friday 22 Feb, same time.
16:37:49 <MaryJo> zakim, bye
16:37:49 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Gregg_Vanderheiden, +1.512.255.aaaa, David_MacDonald, Andi_Snow_Weaver, +0162859aabb, Judy, Shadi, Peter_Korn, MaryJo, Kiran_Kaja,
16:37:49 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag2ict
16:37:52 <Zakim> ... Loic, Alex, Mike_P, Janina_Sajka, Bruce_Bailey
16:38:02 <MaryJo> rrsagent, make minutes
16:38:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/15-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
16:40:52 <Mike_P> Mike_P has left #wcag2ict
16:43:03 <korn> korn has left #wcag2ict
18:06:20 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #wcag2ict
21:30:15 <Judy> Judy has joined #wcag2ict