IRC log of wai-wcag on 2013-02-14
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 20:58:32 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
- 20:58:32 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/02/14-wai-wcag-irc
- 20:58:34 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 20:58:34 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #wai-wcag
- 20:58:36 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
- 20:58:36 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot, I see WAI_WCAG()4:00PM already started
- 20:58:37 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
- 20:58:37 [trackbot]
- Date: 14 February 2013
- 20:58:40 [Kathy]
- Kathy has joined #wai-wcag
- 20:58:41 [MichaelC]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 20:58:42 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Shadi, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Gregg_Vanderheiden
- 20:58:48 [greggvanderheiden]
- greggvanderheiden has joined #wai-wcag
- 20:58:59 [Zakim]
- +Kathy
- 21:00:25 [greggvanderheiden]
- zakim, who is on the phone
- 21:00:25 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'who is on the phone', greggvanderheiden
- 21:00:35 [Kathy]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 21:00:35 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see Shadi, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Kathy
- 21:00:57 [Zakim]
- +[Oracle]
- 21:00:58 [korn]
- korn has joined #wai-wcag
- 21:01:09 [korn]
- Zakim, Oracle has Peter_Korn
- 21:01:09 [Zakim]
- +Peter_Korn; got it
- 21:01:34 [Zakim]
- +Bruce_Bailey
- 21:02:39 [Zakim]
- + +1.617.584.aaaa
- 21:02:49 [Zakim]
- +??P6
- 21:02:52 [MichaelC]
- zakim, ??P6 is Michael_Cooper
- 21:02:52 [Zakim]
- +Michael_Cooper; got it
- 21:03:13 [Judy]
- Judy has joined #wai-wcag
- 21:03:36 [Zakim]
- +Judy
- 21:04:52 [MichaelC]
- zakim, aaaa is Andrew_Kirkpatrick
- 21:04:52 [Zakim]
- +Andrew_Kirkpatrick; got it
- 21:05:08 [AWK]
- AWK has joined #wai-wcag
- 21:05:22 [MichaelC]
- agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2013JanMar/0076.html
- 21:05:30 [MichaelC]
- regrets: Gian_Wild, Loretta_Guarino_Reid
- 21:06:15 [greggvanderheiden]
- https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/cross-cutting-issues-and-notes/remaining-3-scs
- 21:06:43 [shadi]
- zakim, mute me
- 21:06:43 [Zakim]
- Shadi should now be muted
- 21:06:51 [MichaelC]
- topic: Definition of ¨Set of Software¨ https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/FINAL4SC/results#xSoftDef
- 21:07:37 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 21:07:49 [MichaelC]
- zakim, Ipcaller is Kerstin_Probiesch
- 21:07:49 [Zakim]
- +Kerstin_Probiesch; got it
- 21:08:30 [kerstin]
- kerstin has joined #wai-wcag
- 21:08:46 [korn]
- agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2013JanMar/0076.html
- 21:08:53 [korn]
- https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/cross-cutting-issues-and-notes/remaining-3-scs
- 21:08:59 [korn]
- q+
- 21:09:01 [kerstin]
- hi @all
- 21:09:10 [korn]
- topic: Definition of ¨Set of Software¨ https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/FINAL4SC/results#xSoftDef
- 21:09:23 [kerstin]
- zakim, mute me
- 21:09:23 [Zakim]
- Kerstin_Probiesch should now be muted
- 21:11:18 [korn]
- q-
- 21:11:55 [korn]
- q+
- 21:12:37 [korn]
- q-
- 21:17:47 [MichaelC]
- RESOLUTION: accept definition of software as amended
- 21:18:02 [korn]
- q+
- 21:18:17 [MichaelC]
- topic: SC 2.4.1 - Bypass Blocks https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/FINAL4SC/results#x241
- 21:20:17 [Zakim]
- +Marc_Johlic
- 21:20:25 [marcjohlic]
- marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
- 21:23:44 [MichaelC]
- RESOLUTION: accept as amended
- 21:23:57 [MichaelC]
- topic: SC 2.4.5 - Multiple Ways https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/FINAL4SC/results#x245
- 21:26:45 [AWK]
- NOTE 3: An example of 'a software program that is part of process', that would meet the exception for this SC, would be one where programs are interlinked but the interlinking dependds on program A being used before program B, for validation or to initialize the dataset etc.
- 21:27:55 [korn]
- If software program A must be used before program B - for validation or to initialize the dataset, etc., - then then both program are "part of a process". As such, they meet the exception for this SC.
- 21:32:15 [Zakim]
- +David_MacDonald
- 21:32:38 [AWK]
- I have no preference for my wording or peter's. Both are fine for me.
- 21:33:02 [AWK]
- Zakim, flip a coin
- 21:33:02 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'flip a coin', AWK
- 21:33:04 [David]
- David has joined #wai-wcag
- 21:34:55 [Judy]
- q+
- 21:38:10 [korn]
- q-
- 21:38:40 [greggvanderheiden]
- ack j
- 21:39:17 [MichaelC]
- RESOLUTION: accept as amended
- 21:39:36 [MichaelC]
- topic: SC 3.2.3 - Consistent Navigation https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/FINAL4SC/results#x323
- 21:39:51 [MichaelC]
- RESOLUTION: accept as amended
- 21:42:36 [MichaelC]
- topic: SC 3.2.4: Consistent Identification https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/FINAL4SC/results#x324
- 21:43:29 [MichaelC]
- RESOLUTION: accept as amended
- 21:44:05 [MichaelC]
- topic: SC 3.2.4: Consistent Identification https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/FINAL4SC/results#x324i
- 21:44:28 [Zakim]
- -Katie_Haritos-Shea
- 21:45:23 [Zakim]
- +Katie_Haritos-Shea
- 21:45:28 [greggvanderheiden]
- ack b
- 21:45:38 [korn]
- q+
- 21:45:58 [AWK]
- q+
- 21:54:47 [korn]
- q-
- 21:55:13 [MichaelC]
- q+ Katie
- 21:55:31 [MichaelC]
- ack a
- 21:57:33 [David]
- q+
- 21:57:38 [MichaelC]
- ack d
- 21:58:48 [MichaelC]
- ack k
- 21:58:54 [MichaelC]
- zakim, unmute katie
- 21:58:54 [Zakim]
- Katie_Haritos-Shea was not muted, MichaelC
- 22:08:49 [MichaelC]
- RESOLUTION: put option B from the survey results into Understanding 3.2.4
- 22:09:16 [MichaelC]
- topic: Software or Programs
- 22:10:11 [MichaelC]
- RESOLUTION: WCAG2ICTTF is authorized to replace ¨set of software programs¨ with either ¨set of software¨ or ¨set of software (programs)¨
- 22:10:52 [MichaelC]
- -> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/WCAGevalTaskForce/results Eval review
- 22:10:57 [shadi]
- ack me
- 22:11:21 [MichaelC]
- Comments on Section1: Introduction https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/WCAGevalTaskForce/results#xICmts
- 22:13:22 [korn]
- q+
- 22:13:38 [korn]
- q-
- 22:16:07 [kerstin]
- zakim, unmute me
- 22:16:07 [Zakim]
- Kerstin_Probiesch should no longer be muted
- 22:19:31 [kerstin]
- zakim, mute me
- 22:19:32 [Zakim]
- Kerstin_Probiesch should now be muted
- 22:19:37 [greggvanderheiden]
- Website with Separable Areas" - Too much weight is put on the password protected part, a better basis for separability needs to be found. I lean towards flexibility here, as long as this is clearly explained in the scope.
- 22:20:29 [greggvanderheiden]
- Resolution:
- 22:20:30 [greggvanderheiden]
- Change in rewrite of the Introduction: "This methodology, Website Accessibility Conformance Evaluation Methodology (WCAG-EM) 1.0, describes a way to evaluate the conformance of existing websites to the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) 2.0. This methodology can also be useful for other purposes such as for ongoing evaluation of websites during their development."
- 22:20:31 [greggvanderheiden]
- Rationale: The focus is now on the word purpose and not on the fact if the website is finished.
- 22:20:32 [greggvanderheiden]
- We want to be careful with exclusion criteria. We have previously decided to address this by not making it possible to exclude any parts of a website. We decided that we want to approach this in a positive way, encouraging the use of the methodology from the start without broadening the scope - this allows people to (re)use the methodology for many more situations without actually broadening the scope of the document. The answer to the
- 22:20:33 [greggvanderheiden]
- question would be yes. There have been a number of rewrites of this section. The latest is covered in Survey 8.
- 22:20:34 [greggvanderheiden]
- See discussion in Survey about DoC_ID20. No comments about proposed resolution during telco and week after. And decisions in Telco. For review in ED 17 january and again in ED 22 January 2013. New rewrite in the ED draft 20130122. Agreement in survey 8.
- 22:21:15 [shadi]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120920#comment25
- 22:23:03 [shadi]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20130208#separable
- 22:23:36 [greggvanderheiden]
- In some cases websites may have clearly separable areas, such as a password-restricted area of a website (extranet) that is not part of using the public area (log-in is not required to complete a function or process). Such areas can be considered as individual websites rather than sub-sites for the purpose of this document.
- 22:25:55 [Zakim]
- -Judy
- 22:27:06 [David]
- consider this In some cases websites may have clearly separable areas, such as a password-restricted area of a website (extranet) that is not part of the public web site (where log-in is not required to complete a function or process). Such areas MAY be considered as individual websites rather than sub-sites for the purpose of this document, <add>and documented in the scope.</add>
- 22:28:13 [shadi]
- https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/WCAGevalTaskForce/results#xprocedur
- 22:28:15 [kerstin]
- zakim, unmute me
- 22:28:15 [Zakim]
- Kerstin_Probiesch should no longer be muted
- 22:28:48 [korn]
- +1 to staying
- 22:28:58 [kerstin]
- +1 for staying also
- 22:30:06 [greggvanderheiden]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120920
- 22:31:34 [shadi]
- q+
- 22:33:03 [MichaelC]
- RESOLUTION: accept as proposed
- 22:33:05 [shadi]
- ack me
- 22:33:22 [MichaelC]
- topic: Introduction https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/WCAGevalTaskForce/results#xq2
- 22:34:00 [kerstin]
- I support "a way"
- 22:34:34 [MichaelC]
- s/RESOLUTION: accept as proposed//
- 22:35:38 [shadi]
- q+
- 22:36:06 [shadi]
- ack me
- 22:36:10 [greggvanderheiden]
- ack s
- 22:37:54 [greggvanderheiden]
- q+
- 22:38:04 [korn]
- q+
- 22:38:04 [greggvanderheiden]
- ack g
- 22:40:19 [MichaelC]
- topic: Using this Methodology https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/WCAGevalTaskForce/results#xUsing
- 22:40:32 [korn]
- q-
- 22:42:56 [MichaelC]
- topic: Conformance Evaluation Procedure and Considerations for Particular Situations https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/WCAGevalTaskForce/results#xprocedur
- 22:44:04 [shadi]
- q+
- 22:44:12 [shadi]
- ack me
- 22:47:38 [korn]
- q-
- 22:48:55 [Zakim]
- +Cooper
- 22:49:31 [MichaelC]
- zakim, drop Michael_Cooper
- 22:49:31 [Zakim]
- Michael_Cooper is being disconnected
- 22:49:33 [Zakim]
- -Michael_Cooper
- 22:51:13 [kerstin]
- q+
- 22:53:01 [korn]
- q+ bruce
- 22:53:02 [greggvanderheiden]
- ack k
- 22:55:50 [MichaelC]
- q+ to note that if jurisdictions make techniques required, then evaluators should just follow the optional section; but other evaluators shouldn´t be limited to the WCAG techniques so this should remain optional
- 22:56:17 [korn]
- q+
- 23:01:12 [kerstin]
- q+
- 23:01:17 [greggvanderheiden]
- ack b
- 23:02:18 [shadi]
- q+ to talk about techniques and failures
- 23:02:43 [korn]
- q-
- 23:03:17 [MichaelC]
- ack me
- 23:03:17 [Zakim]
- MichaelC, you wanted to note that if jurisdictions make techniques required, then evaluators should just follow the optional section; but other evaluators shouldn´t be limited to
- 23:03:21 [Zakim]
- ... the WCAG techniques so this should remain optional
- 23:04:01 [MichaelC]
- ack k
- 23:04:02 [greggvanderheiden]
- ack k
- 23:04:03 [MichaelC]
- ack s
- 23:04:03 [Zakim]
- shadi, you wanted to talk about techniques and failures
- 23:04:09 [shadi]
- ack me
- 23:04:53 [greggvanderheiden]
- q+
- 23:05:55 [MichaelC]
- Suggestion to create a resource underscoring that we don´t think jurisdictions should require implementers to follow only WCAG techniques for conformance
- 23:06:31 [Zakim]
- -Andrew_Kirkpatrick
- 23:06:34 [kerstin]
- q+
- 23:06:58 [greggvanderheiden]
- ack g
- 23:07:07 [greggvanderheiden]
- ack
- 23:07:10 [greggvanderheiden]
- ack k
- 23:08:03 [korn]
- q+
- 23:08:26 [greggvanderheiden]
- ack k
- 23:09:09 [kerstin]
- q+
- 23:09:29 [korn]
- q-
- 23:09:31 [greggvanderheiden]
- ack k
- 23:09:50 [korn]
- q+
- 23:11:10 [korn]
- q-
- 23:12:38 [korn]
- q+
- 23:13:57 [shadi]
- q+
- 23:14:04 [greggvanderheiden]
- ack k
- 23:14:06 [greggvanderheiden]
- ack s
- 23:14:09 [korn]
- q-
- 23:15:43 [kerstin]
- q+
- 23:16:35 [shadi]
- [[Techniques and failures in the context of WCAG 2.0 are informative and not required for determining conformance with WCAG 2.0; WCAG 2.0 Success Criteria are written as testable statements. Techniques provide documented ways of meeting WCAG 2.0 Success Criteria and failures document commonly made mistakes. More information on techniques and failures is provided in WCAG 2.0 Layers of Guidance.]]
- 23:17:05 [Zakim]
- -Katie_Haritos-Shea
- 23:17:06 [Zakim]
- -[Oracle]
- 23:18:07 [Kathy]
- Sorry I need to go
- 23:19:15 [Zakim]
- -Kathy
- 23:19:17 [Zakim]
- -Gregg_Vanderheiden
- 23:19:19 [Zakim]
- -Shadi
- 23:19:20 [Zakim]
- -David_MacDonald
- 23:19:24 [Zakim]
- -Marc_Johlic
- 23:19:26 [Zakim]
- -Bruce_Bailey
- 23:19:26 [Zakim]
- -Kerstin_Probiesch
- 23:24:26 [Zakim]
- disconnecting the lone participant, Cooper, in WAI_WCAG()4:00PM
- 23:24:27 [Zakim]
- WAI_WCAG()4:00PM has ended
- 23:24:27 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Shadi, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Kathy, Peter_Korn, Bruce_Bailey, +1.617.584.aaaa, Michael_Cooper, Judy, Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Kerstin_Probiesch,
- 23:24:27 [Zakim]
- ... Marc_Johlic, David_MacDonald, Cooper
- 23:28:32 [MichaelC]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 23:28:32 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/14-wai-wcag-minutes.html MichaelC
- 23:34:03 [MichaelC]
- chair: Gregg_Vanderheiden
- 23:34:07 [MichaelC]
- scribeOptions: -final
- 23:34:12 [MichaelC]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 23:34:12 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/14-wai-wcag-minutes.html MichaelC
- 23:34:17 [MichaelC]
- rrsagent, bye
- 23:34:17 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items