IRC log of ua on 2013-02-14
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 17:45:45 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #ua
- 17:45:45 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/02/14-ua-irc
- 17:45:47 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 17:45:47 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #ua
- 17:45:49 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
- 17:45:49 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 15 minutes
- 17:45:50 [trackbot]
- Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
- 17:45:50 [trackbot]
- Date: 14 February 2013
- 17:46:14 [allanj]
- rrsagent, make logs public
- 17:49:30 [allanj]
- Agenda+ conformance use cases for conformance scenarios (extensions, mobile apps, etc)
- 17:49:32 [allanj]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0026.html
- 17:49:33 [allanj]
- Agenda+ Eric Hansen review of UAAG2 20 Dec 2012 editor's draft
- 17:49:35 [allanj]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0015.htm
- 17:49:36 [allanj]
- Agenda+ Response to HTML5 Accessibility Taskforce Bugs
- 17:49:38 [allanj]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0039.html
- 17:49:39 [allanj]
- Agenda+ What is a User Agent - Jan, glossary musings
- 17:49:41 [allanj]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0045.html
- 17:49:42 [allanj]
- Agenda+ Jeanne Creating tests for SC verification in Candidate Review.
- 17:55:30 [kford]
- kford has joined #ua
- 17:57:59 [Zakim]
- WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
- 17:58:05 [Zakim]
- + +1.609.734.aaaa
- 17:59:11 [EricHansen]
- EricHansen has joined #ua
- 18:00:26 [Zakim]
- +Jim_Allan
- 18:00:42 [Jan]
- Jan has joined #ua
- 18:00:43 [allanj]
- zakim, aaaa is really EricHansen
- 18:00:43 [Zakim]
- +EricHansen; got it
- 18:00:49 [Jan]
- zakim, code?
- 18:00:49 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan
- 18:00:59 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 18:01:26 [Jan]
- zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan
- 18:01:26 [Zakim]
- +Jan; got it
- 18:02:43 [Zakim]
- +Jeanne
- 18:02:48 [jeanne]
- jeanne has joined #ua
- 18:03:00 [Greg]
- Greg has joined #ua
- 18:03:47 [Zakim]
- +Greg_Lowney
- 18:08:38 [allanj]
- zakim, agenda?
- 18:08:38 [Zakim]
- I see 5 items remaining on the agenda:
- 18:08:40 [Zakim]
- 1. conformance use cases for conformance scenarios (extensions, mobile apps, etc) [from allanj]
- 18:08:40 [Zakim]
- 2. Eric Hansen review of UAAG2 20 Dec 2012 editor's draft [from allanj]
- 18:08:40 [Zakim]
- 3. Response to HTML5 Accessibility Taskforce Bugs [from allanj]
- 18:08:40 [Zakim]
- 4. What is a User Agent - Jan, glossary musings [from allanj]
- 18:08:40 [Zakim]
- 5. Jeanne Creating tests for SC verification in Candidate Review. [from allanj]
- 18:11:44 [KimPatch]
- KimPatch has joined #ua
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- +Kim_Patch
- 18:12:16 [allanj]
- http://mothereffingtoolconfuser.com/
- 18:12:17 [Jan]
- http://mothereffingtoolconfuser.com/
- 18:16:57 [allanj]
- zakim, open Item 3
- 18:16:57 [Zakim]
- agendum 3. "Response to HTML5 Accessibility Taskforce Bugs" taken up [from allanj]
- 18:17:23 [allanj]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2013JanMar/0039.html
- 18:18:30 [allanj]
- scribe: allanj
- 18:18:47 [allanj]
- Jim gives an overview of the bugs and response
- 18:19:49 [allanj]
- regrets: simon
- 18:20:25 [allanj]
- jan; no concerns
- 18:20:35 [allanj]
- kim: no concerns
- 18:25:00 [allanj]
- jeanne: no concerns
- 18:25:38 [allanj]
- action: jim to send bug response report to html5 A11y taskforce
- 18:25:38 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-799 - Send bug response report to html5 A11y taskforce [on Jim Allan - due 2013-02-21].
- 18:25:56 [allanj]
- zakim, close item 3
- 18:25:56 [Zakim]
- agendum 3, Response to HTML5 Accessibility Taskforce Bugs, closed
- 18:25:58 [Zakim]
- I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 18:25:58 [Zakim]
- 1. conformance use cases for conformance scenarios (extensions, mobile apps, etc) [from allanj]
- 18:26:29 [allanj]
- zakim, close item 1
- 18:26:29 [Zakim]
- agendum 1, conformance use cases for conformance scenarios (extensions, mobile apps, etc), closed
- 18:26:32 [Zakim]
- I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 18:26:32 [Zakim]
- 2. Eric Hansen review of UAAG2 20 Dec 2012 editor's draft [from allanj]
- 18:29:37 [allanj]
- zakim, open item 5
- 18:29:37 [Zakim]
- agendum 5. "Jeanne Creating tests for SC verification in Candidate Review." taken up [from allanj]
- 18:30:28 [allanj]
- what the group will have to do after last call to get ready for candidate recommendation.
- 18:31:41 [allanj]
- during CR, the spec is 'almost' complete. W3 says evaluate, send comments, begin implementation.
- 18:32:09 [allanj]
- need to find 2 real world implementations, write a report and move to next level
- 18:32:26 [allanj]
- need to think ahead to CR
- 18:33:10 [allanj]
- 1. decide how we structure the CR Exit Criteria. under what conditions is the spec successful.
- 18:33:37 [allanj]
- the criteria must be approved by W3. the criteria and spec must be credible.
- 18:34:42 [allanj]
- 2. (big) need to write 'tests' for each SC across many products. we will use during CR.
- 18:35:51 [jeanne]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/AU/2012/ATAG20tests/ATAG2-10April2012PublicWD-Tests-rev20121119
- 18:37:14 [allanj]
- a) define test procedures
- 18:38:02 [allanj]
- b) things the tester needs to know before they begin testing
- 18:39:24 [allanj]
- c) specific test for each SC. each test has an Assertion - for 1 item. if multiple items in an SC, each needs and Assertion
- 18:40:42 [Greg]
- To clarify, an SC might have multiple tests even if it doesn't have sub-items.
- 18:41:03 [Greg]
- (e.g. ATAG A.2.1.1.)
- 18:42:22 [allanj]
- UAAG can use WCAG tests items for the purpose of testing UAAG SC. to ensure the UA does what it supposed to do based on WCAG code.
- 18:43:21 [Zakim]
- -Greg_Lowney
- 18:43:58 [allanj]
- we have a wiki page http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Extensions_needed_for_Implementation_Examples
- 18:45:38 [Zakim]
- +[Microsoft]
- 18:46:03 [kford]
- zakim, microsoft is kford
- 18:46:03 [Zakim]
- +kford; got it
- 18:46:36 [allanj]
- if you find extensions, or implementations (mobile or otherwise) please put them here.
- 18:49:03 [jeanne]
- WCAG CR exit criteria -> http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/CR-WCAG20-20080430/#status
- 18:51:29 [allanj]
- zakim, close item 5
- 18:51:29 [Zakim]
- agendum 5, Jeanne Creating tests for SC verification in Candidate Review., closed
- 18:51:31 [Zakim]
- I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 18:51:31 [Zakim]
- 2. Eric Hansen review of UAAG2 20 Dec 2012 editor's draft [from allanj]
- 18:52:07 [allanj]
- Action: jim to create wiki page for SC testing criteria.
- 18:52:07 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-800 - Create wiki page for SC testing criteria. [on Jim Allan - due 2013-02-21].
- 18:53:21 [allanj]
- topic: ReChartering
- 18:53:23 [allanj]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2010/uawg_charter
- 18:53:40 [allanj]
- need to recharter by mid-march
- 18:54:12 [allanj]
- need to create a new time line.
- 18:57:27 [kford]
- q+
- 18:58:29 [allanj]
- kf: we are more aspirational in our charter. need to more realistic
- 18:59:22 [allanj]
- js: need to spell out all the steps necessary to meet milestones
- 19:00:32 [allanj]
- jr: time to write tests. UA and AU are very different. They are not machine checkable. It takes longer.
- 19:02:56 [allanj]
- ack kelly
- 19:02:58 [kford]
- ack kford
- 19:04:53 [Zakim]
- + +1.425.381.aabb
- 19:07:11 [Zakim]
- -kford
- 19:07:23 [allanj]
- topic: glossary gardening
- 19:07:58 [allanj]
- proposed: *operating system (OS)*: Software that supports a computer's basic functions, such as scheduling tasks, executing applications, and managing hardware and peripherals.
- 19:08:00 [allanj]
- - Note: Many operating systems mediate communication between executing applications and assistive technology via a platform accessibility service.
- 19:08:59 [allanj]
- UA talks about OS as part of platform.
- 19:12:40 [allanj]
- Update: *platform*: The software environment(s) within which the authoring tool operates. Platforms provide a consistent operational environment on top of lower level software platforms or hardware. *Non-web-based* platforms include desktop *operating systems* (e.g. Linux, MacOS, Windows, etc.), mobile operating systems (e.g. Android, Blackberry, iOS, Windows Phone, etc.), and cross-OS...
- 19:12:41 [allanj]
- ...environments (e.g. Java). *Web-based* platforms are other user agents. User agents may also employ server-based processing, such as web content transformations, text-to-speech production, etc..
- 19:12:43 [allanj]
- - Note 1: A user agent may include functionality hosted on multiple platforms (e.g. a browser running on the desktop may include server-based pre-processing and web-based documentation).
- 19:12:44 [allanj]
- - Note 2: Accessibility guidelines for developers exist for many platforms.
- 19:12:57 [allanj]
- [REMOVE] operating environment --> platform
- 19:14:23 [allanj]
- updated definition of user agent from Jan. incorporating comments from Greg.
- 19:15:04 [allanj]
- -----------------
- 19:15:09 [allanj]
- [UPDATE] *user agent*: Software that retrieves, renders and facilitates end-user interaction with Web content. If the software only performs these functions for time-based media, then the software is typically referred to as a *media player*, otherwise, the more general designation *browser* is used. UAAG 2.0 identifies several user agent architectures:
- 19:15:11 [allanj]
- - *Stand-alone*: These user agents run on non-Web platforms (operating systems and cross-OS platforms, such as Java) and perform content retrieval, rendering and end-user interaction facilitation themselves. (e.g., Firefox, IE, Chrome, Opera).
- 19:15:12 [allanj]
- - *Embedded*: These user agents "plug-in" to stand-alone user agents in order to rendering and facilitate end-user interaction for content types (e.g., multimedia), that the stand-alone user agent is not able to. Embedded user agents establish direct connections with the platform (e.g. communication via platform accessibility services).
- 19:15:14 [allanj]
- - *Web-based*: These user agents operate by (a) transforming the web content into a technology that the stand-alone (or embedded) user agent can render and (b) injecting the user agent's own user interface functionality into the content to be rendered.
- 19:15:15 [allanj]
- - *Webview Component*: These user agents are used to package web content into non-web-based applications, especially on mobile platforms. *If the finished application is used to retrieves, renders and facilitates end-user interaction with Web content of the end-users choosing, then the application should be considered a stand-alone user agent. If the finished application only renders a...
- 19:15:17 [allanj]
- ...constrained set of content specified by the developer, then the application should not be considered a user agent.*
- 19:15:18 [allanj]
- Note 1: Any of these user agent architectures may also employ server-based processing, such as web content transformations, text-to-speech production, etc.
- 19:15:20 [allanj]
- Note 2: User agents may also include *authoring tool* features. (see "Relationship to the Authoring Tool Accessibility Guidelines (ATAG) 2.0" http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2013/ED-UAAG20-20130108/#intro-atag)
- 19:18:33 [allanj]
- [ADD] User agent extensions (add-ins): Software installed into a user agent that has an extension feature in order to modify the behavior of the user agent. Two common capabilities for user agent extensions are the ability to *modify the content* before the user agent renders it (e.g., to add highlights if certain types of alternative content are present) and to *modify the user agent's own...
- 19:18:34 [allanj]
- ...user interface * (e.g. add a headings view).
- 19:20:21 [allanj]
- jr: AA app is data driven, some data structure. comes into the app, gets rendered. puts it on the screen. there is a big difference between doing the simple data rendering, and the user telling the UA where to go to get information.
- 19:20:30 [allanj]
- ... makes our work easier.
- 19:20:47 [allanj]
- js: dividing line is not clear. understand the concern.
- 19:21:07 [allanj]
- user is selecting the data by choosing the app to get specific data
- 19:21:26 [allanj]
- or user following a link,
- 19:21:57 [allanj]
- jr: difference between user choosing versus author choosing.
- 19:22:17 [allanj]
- AA app, is a data view widget.
- 19:23:00 [allanj]
- eh: distinction not very sharp.
- 19:23:40 [jeanne]
- scribe: jeanne
- 19:24:08 [jeanne]
- JA: it will be hard to write tests for apps. Apps are more dependent on the hardware platform
- 19:24:26 [jeanne]
- JR: These are also covered by WCAG
- 19:25:16 [jeanne]
- s/Apps are more dependent on the hardware platform/Apps are more dependent on the hardware platform. Should we fail all Android apps because it doesn't have a zoom?
- 19:27:27 [allanj]
- [add] second definition of user agent:
- 19:27:28 [allanj]
- 2. The software that is the subject of the conformance claim. This the meaning of “user agent” as referred to in success criteria.
- 19:28:53 [jeanne]
- scribe: allanj
- 19:30:30 [allanj]
- eh: UA vs app, and what are you evaluating to make a conformance claim. if you evaluate something against the UAAG20 guidelines then it is a UA
- 19:32:25 [allanj]
- jr: under user extensions. the UA has the extension feature. something plugs into the extension feature.
- 19:33:08 [allanj]
- eh: wanted to keep the boundary between UA and the extension. is an extension part of the UA or not.
- 19:35:59 [allanj]
- jr: if the user agent has a feature that allows extension. then thing that use that feature are extensions. There are base user agents. extensions are separate from the borwser.
- 19:36:50 [allanj]
- ISSUE: further discussion needed on mobile apps being UAs or not. Are they covered totally by WCAG
- 19:36:51 [trackbot]
- Created ISSUE-97 - Further discussion needed on mobile apps being UAs or not. Are they covered totally by WCAG; please complete additional details at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/issues/97/edit>.
- 19:37:48 [allanj]
- eh: time on glossary is very important.
- 19:37:58 [allanj]
- ... thanks to Jan for the efforts.
- 19:40:38 [Zakim]
- - +1.425.381.aabb
- 19:40:41 [Zakim]
- -Kim_Patch
- 19:40:44 [Zakim]
- -EricHansen
- 19:40:45 [Zakim]
- -Jan
- 19:40:46 [Zakim]
- -Jim_Allan
- 19:40:46 [Zakim]
- -Jeanne
- 19:40:48 [Zakim]
- WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended
- 19:40:48 [Zakim]
- Attendees were +1.609.734.aaaa, Jim_Allan, EricHansen, Jan, Jeanne, Greg_Lowney, Kim_Patch, kford, +1.425.381.aabb
- 19:42:41 [jeanne]
- action: Jeanne to add Jan's proposal on glossary cleanup with edits from Eric (editor's discretion)
- 19:42:41 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-801 - Add Jan's proposal on glossary cleanup with edits from Eric (editor's discretion) [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2013-02-21].
- 19:42:56 [jeanne]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 19:42:56 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/14-ua-minutes.html jeanne
- 19:56:26 [allanj]
- close action-799
- 19:56:26 [trackbot]
- Closed ACTION-799 Send bug response report to html5 A11y taskforce.
- 20:08:15 [allanj]
- close Action-800
- 20:08:15 [trackbot]
- Closed ACTION-800 Create wiki page for SC testing criteria..
- 20:08:39 [allanj]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 20:08:39 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/14-ua-minutes.html allanj
- 20:08:49 [allanj]
- zakim, please part
- 20:08:49 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #ua
- 20:10:17 [allanj]
- chair: JimAllan, KellyFord
- 20:11:20 [allanj]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 20:11:20 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/02/14-ua-minutes.html allanj
- 20:11:40 [allanj]
- rrsagent, please part
- 20:11:40 [RRSAgent]
- I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/14-ua-actions.rdf :
- 20:11:40 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: jim to send bug response report to html5 A11y taskforce [1]
- 20:11:40 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/14-ua-irc#T18-25-38
- 20:11:40 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: jim to create wiki page for SC testing criteria. [2]
- 20:11:40 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/14-ua-irc#T18-52-07
- 20:11:40 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Jeanne to add Jan's proposal on glossary cleanup with edits from Eric (editor's discretion) [3]
- 20:11:40 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2013/02/14-ua-irc#T19-42-41