IRC log of html-techs-tf on 2013-01-28

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:00:54 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #html-techs-tf
17:00:54 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-html-techs-tf-irc
17:01:00 [Joshue108]
zakim, this will be 9224
17:01:00 [Zakim]
ok, Joshue108; I see WAI_HTML TT()11:30AM scheduled to start 31 minutes ago
17:01:09 [Joshue108]
rrsagent, make log world
17:01:19 [Joshue108]
Meeting: HTML Techniques Task Force
17:01:22 [Joshue108]
Chair: Joshue
17:01:54 [Joshue108]
agenda + Discussion on latest technique feedback.
17:01:54 [Joshue108]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20130117misc/results
17:02:02 [Joshue108]
agenda + Draw up next round of techniques for review.
17:02:11 [Joshue108]
agenda + Progressing the new 'User Agent Testing Methodology and Notes' document. [1]
17:02:12 [Joshue108]
[1] http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Techniques/UAtesting
17:03:30 [Detlev]
Detlev has joined #html-techs-tf
17:04:17 [Joshue108]
zakim, who is on the phone?
17:04:17 [Zakim]
I notice WAI_HTML TT()11:30AM has restarted
17:04:19 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.253.381.aaaa, ??P0, [IPcaller]
17:04:34 [Zakim]
+Detlev
17:04:40 [Loretta]
Loretta has joined #html-techs-tf
17:05:11 [Joshue108]
zakim, [IPcaller] is Detlev
17:05:11 [Zakim]
+Detlev; got it
17:05:12 [Zakim]
+James_Nurthen
17:05:40 [Joshue108]
zakim, +1 253.381.aaa is Robin
17:05:40 [Zakim]
I don't understand '+1 253.381.aaa is Robin', Joshue108
17:05:46 [Joshue108]
zakim, 253.381.aaa is Robin
17:05:46 [Zakim]
sorry, Joshue108, I do not recognize a party named '253.381.aaa'
17:05:51 [Joshue108]
zakim, 253.381.aaaa is Robin
17:05:51 [Zakim]
sorry, Joshue108, I do not recognize a party named '253.381.aaaa'
17:06:00 [Joshue108]
zakim, +1 253.381.aaaa is Robin
17:06:00 [Zakim]
I don't understand '+1 253.381.aaaa is Robin', Joshue108
17:06:07 [jamesn]
jamesn has joined #html-techs-tf
17:06:12 [jamesn]
zakim, who is on the call?
17:06:12 [Zakim]
On the phone I see +1.253.381.aaaa, ??P0, Detlev.a, Detlev, James_Nurthen
17:06:22 [Joshue108]
zakim, 253.381 is Robin
17:06:22 [Zakim]
sorry, Joshue108, I do not recognize a party named '253.381'
17:06:30 [jamesn]
zakim, aaaa is Robin
17:06:30 [Zakim]
+Robin; got it
17:07:09 [Joshue108]
zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
17:07:09 [Zakim]
sorry, Joshue108, I do not recognize a party named '[IPcaller]'
17:07:19 [jamesn]
zakim, Detlev.a is Joshue
17:07:19 [Zakim]
+Joshue; got it
17:07:26 [jamesn]
zakim, who is on the call?
17:07:26 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Robin, ??P0, Joshue, Detlev, James_Nurthen
17:07:49 [jamesn]
zakim, ??P0 is Loretta
17:07:49 [Zakim]
+Loretta; got it
17:07:56 [jamesn]
zakim, who is on the call?
17:07:56 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Robin, Loretta, Joshue, Detlev, James_Nurthen
17:08:23 [Zakim]
-Loretta
17:09:15 [Loretta]
hi
17:09:22 [Detlev]
See whehter this will be associated with Detev
17:09:24 [Zakim]
+??P0
17:09:33 [Joshue108]
zakim, ??P0 is Joshue
17:09:33 [Zakim]
+Joshue; got it
17:09:43 [jamesn]
zakim, who is on the call?
17:09:43 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Robin, Joshue, Detlev, James_Nurthen, Joshue.a
17:09:44 [Joshue108]
zakim, who is on the phone?
17:09:44 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Robin, Joshue, Detlev, James_Nurthen, Joshue.a
17:09:54 [jamesn]
zakim, Joshue is Loretta
17:09:54 [Zakim]
+Loretta; got it
17:10:04 [jamesn]
zakim, Joshue.a is Joshue
17:10:04 [Zakim]
+Joshue; got it
17:10:13 [jamesn]
zakim, who is on the call?
17:10:13 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Robin, Loretta, Detlev, James_Nurthen, Joshue
17:10:47 [Loretta]
scribe:Loretta
17:11:34 [Loretta]
Boeing
17:11:55 [Loretta]
Robin tells us about her background.
17:13:28 [Joshue108]
zakim, take up item 1
17:13:28 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "1) Actions for dealing with technique feedback." taken up [from Joshue108]
17:14:02 [Joshue108]
Discussion on latest technique feedback.
17:14:02 [Joshue108]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20130117misc/results
17:14:24 [Joshue108]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20130117misc/results#xlandmark
17:15:11 [jamesn]
http://tinyurl.com/abtysuu
17:15:21 [Detlev]
http://tinyurl.com/abtysuu
17:15:36 [Loretta]
David took an action item to rework and combine the landmark techniques.
17:16:11 [Detlev]
http://tinyurl.com/ax39jp9
17:16:12 [jamesn]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_ARIA_landmarks_to_bypass_blocks_of_content,_and_provide_programmatic_structure.
17:16:49 [Joshue108]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_ARIA_landmarks_to_bypass_blocks_of_content,_and_provide_programmatic_structure.
17:17:16 [jamesn]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_ARIA_landmarks_to_bypass_blocks_of_content,_and_provide_programmatic_structure.
17:17:17 [Zakim]
-Joshue
17:17:17 [Detlev]
http://tinyurl.com/ax39jp9
17:18:05 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
17:18:11 [Joshue]
Joshue has joined #html-techs-tf
17:19:12 [Loretta]
Josh: Let's put the new technique to survey for next week, rather than trying to cover this on the fly.
17:19:13 [Zakim]
-[IPcaller]
17:20:37 [Loretta]
Loretta has joined #html-techs-tf
17:23:15 [Detlev]
web
17:23:30 [robin]
web
17:24:20 [jamesn]
JN: Added some comments. Imagine the survey will need actions on the test procedure.
17:25:07 [Joshue108]
Joshue108 has joined #html-techs-tf
17:25:34 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
17:25:35 [Loretta]
Heading technique - someone (James?) to update the examples.
17:25:40 [Detlev]
The retrofitting case seemed pretty compelling
17:25:45 [Joshue108]
zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
17:25:45 [Zakim]
+Joshue; got it
17:26:30 [Loretta]
Pushback on the net about using role=header in HMTL, since there is already heading markup.
17:26:47 [Loretta]
This is an issue with many of our simple examples.
17:27:42 [Joshue108]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_aria-labelledby_to_name_controls
17:29:48 [Loretta]
Most compelling use case: repair technique for legacy code that wasn't designed using heading markup.
17:30:51 [Loretta]
Changing the dom hierarchy can break such web sites. Adding an attribute is a safe change.
17:31:20 [Loretta]
Josh has specific real-life examples of such situations.
17:32:52 [Loretta]
Detlev: if we tag this clearly as a repair technique, it should be clear that this is not a recommendation to use role header instead of heading markup.
17:33:42 [Loretta]
Loretta: the labelledby technique that started the discussion probably should be using heading markup instead of role header.
17:34:38 [jamesn]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Headings_using_role%3Dheading
17:35:15 [Loretta]
James will craft the text for the role=heading technique, to capture these nuances.
17:35:22 [jamesn]
ACTION: JN to find write some text about use cases for roles on things which would be better in native html
17:40:37 [Loretta]
flowto technique: put it on hold for now, since it doesn't seem to be helpful at this point.
17:40:58 [Loretta]
Detlev: Firefox and JAWS has some support.
17:42:00 [Loretta]
Loretta: Digging into flowto, I think it will be very hard to use, even when there is accessibility support.
17:47:43 [Joshue108]
zakim, take up item 2
17:47:43 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "2) Progressing the new 'User Agent Testing Methodology and Notes' document. http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Techniques/UAtesting" taken up [from Joshue108]
17:50:35 [Loretta]
UA Testing doc: people are encouraged to review and edit the wiki directly.
17:51:15 [Loretta]
Detlev: what should the document try to achieve? Educate people who are not familiar with screen reader technology?
17:51:39 [Loretta]
Josh: Maybe put together the steps to test using AT?
17:52:25 [Loretta]
Josh: Capture and document the fact that we are considering testing issues for techniques.
17:52:57 [Loretta]
Detlev: SSB-Bart has some good documentation on this, that could go into the Resources section.
17:53:21 [robin]
As a new person to this, that would be very useful for people like me
17:53:42 [Loretta]
Josh takes the action to update the document with this kind of information.
17:55:10 [Loretta]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Making_actions_keyboard_accessible_by_using_keyboard_event_handlers_with_WAI-ARIA_controls
17:55:23 [robin]
Thanks for having me, I need to drop off for another meeting. I do get to go to CSUN and would love to meet up with people
17:55:36 [Zakim]
-Robin
17:57:22 [Detlev]
here is the link to the SS bart resource
17:57:24 [Detlev]
http://www.readability.com/read?url=https%3A//www.ssbbartgroup.com/blog/2013/01/02/how-browsers-interact-with-screen-readers-and-where-aria-fits-in-the-mix/
17:58:36 [Detlev]
its actually not a description how to test with AT
18:00:55 [Zakim]
-Joshue
18:02:17 [Zakim]
-Detlev
18:02:18 [jamesn]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:02:18 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-html-techs-tf-minutes.html jamesn
18:02:22 [Zakim]
-James_Nurthen
18:02:23 [Zakim]
-Loretta
18:02:25 [Zakim]
WAI_HTML TT()11:30AM has ended
18:02:25 [Zakim]
Attendees were +1.253.381.aaaa, Detlev, James_Nurthen, Robin, Loretta, Joshue
18:02:30 [jamesn]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:02:30 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-html-techs-tf-minutes.html jamesn
18:03:39 [Joshue]
Joshue has joined #html-techs-tf
18:04:06 [Joshue]
no probs!
18:04:09 [jamesn]
thanks
18:04:13 [Joshue]
Sorry guys
18:04:17 [Joshue]
chat next week!
18:04:27 [Joshue]
rrsagent, draft minutes
18:04:27 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/28-html-techs-tf-minutes.html Joshue
18:32:58 [Joshue108]
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