14:26:11 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rd
14:26:11 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/09-rd-irc
14:26:13 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:26:13 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #rd
14:26:15 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 7394
14:26:15 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_RDWG()9:30AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
14:26:16 <trackbot> Meeting: Research and Development Working Group Teleconference
14:26:16 <trackbot> Date: 09 January 2013
14:26:19 <sharper> zakim, agenda?
14:26:19 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
14:26:27 <sharper> zakim, please clear the agenda
14:26:29 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:26:41 <sharper> Chair: Harper_Simon
14:26:41 <sharper> Agenda+ Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments) [sharper]
14:26:41 <sharper> Agenda+ Text Customisation Note EARLY DRAFT -
14:26:42 <sharper> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/TC4R_Draft_Report [shawn/david]
14:26:42 <sharper> Agenda+ Mobile Note DRAFT -
14:26:42 <sharper> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2094833/RDWG%20Mobile%20Note.html [yeliz/peter/simon]
14:26:43 <sharper> 
14:26:43 <sharper> Agenda+ Issues and Actions (Standing Item):
14:26:43 <sharper> https://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/tracker/ [sharper]
14:26:43 <sharper> Agenda+ Any Other Business (Standing Item) [sharper]
14:26:52 <sharper> zakim, save agenda
14:26:58 <sharper> zakim, take up item 1
14:26:59 <Zakim> ok, sharper, the agenda has been written to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/09-rd-agenda.rdf
14:27:01 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments)" taken up [from sharper]
14:27:15 <sharper> regrets+ Abou-Zahra_Shadi
14:27:24 <sharper> regrets+ Mohamad_Yehya
14:27:58 <sloandr> sloandr has joined #rd
14:28:11 <sharper> regrets+ Brown_Justin
14:28:47 <sharper> Scribes: http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/scribes
14:29:19 <sharper> regrets+ O'Connor_Joshue
14:29:53 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:29:53 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has not yet started, shawn
14:29:55 <Zakim> On IRC I see sloandr, Zakim, RRSAgent, Vivienne, sharper, klaus, annika, shawn, Joshue, nonge_, shadi, Mate, trackbot
14:30:06 <sharper> rrsagent, make logs public
14:30:07 <sharper> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:30:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/09-rd-minutes.html sharper
14:30:14 <shawn> zakim this is WAI_RDWG
14:30:18 <shawn> zakim, this is WAI_RDWG
14:30:18 <Zakim> ok, shawn; that matches WAI_RDWG()9:30AM
14:30:22 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:30:23 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P27, [IPcaller], Shawn, [IPcaller.a]
14:30:23 <Vivienne> zakim, mute me
14:30:23 <Zakim> sorry, Vivienne, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:30:24 <sloandr> hi all, i have dialled in via skype but can't hear anything
14:30:48 <sloandr> sloandr has joined #rd
14:30:53 <Vivienne> zakim, [ipcaller] is me
14:30:53 <Zakim> +Vivienne; got it
14:31:05 <Vivienne> zakim, mute me
14:31:05 <Zakim> Vivienne should now be muted
14:31:06 <giorgio> giorgio has joined #rd
14:31:14 <sloandr> zakim, mute me
14:31:14 <Zakim> sorry, sloandr, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:31:27 <klaus> zakim, ??P27 is me
14:31:27 <Zakim> +klaus; got it
14:31:27 <sloandr> zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
14:31:28 <Zakim> +sloandr; got it
14:31:28 <Zakim> +??P32
14:31:36 <sloandr> zakim, mute me
14:31:36 <Zakim> sloandr should now be muted
14:31:42 <sloandr> yay
14:31:44 <klaus> zakim, mute me
14:31:44 <Zakim> klaus should now be muted
14:31:44 <annika> zakim, ??P32 is me
14:31:45 <Zakim> +annika; got it
14:31:50 <Zakim> +??P33
14:32:02 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:32:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see klaus (muted), Vivienne (muted), Shawn, sloandr (muted), annika, ??P33
14:32:06 <sharper> zakim, ??P33 is sharper
14:32:06 <Zakim> +sharper; got it
14:32:10 <annika> zakim, mute me
14:32:10 <Zakim> annika should now be muted
14:33:30 <sloandr> zakim, unmute me
14:33:30 <Zakim> sloandr should no longer be muted
14:33:48 <Zakim> + +1.609.734.aaaa
14:33:56 <christos> christos has joined #rd
14:33:58 <sloandr> sorry, thought i was unmuted
14:34:01 <sloandr> ?
14:34:10 <Zakim> +??P34
14:34:14 <Zakim> +??P35
14:34:30 <christos> zakim, ??P34 is me
14:34:30 <Zakim> +christos; got it
14:34:50 <shawn> zakim, aaaa is Markku
14:34:50 <Zakim> +Markku; got it
14:34:51 <christos> zakim, mute me
14:34:51 <Zakim> christos should now be muted
14:34:56 <giorgio> zakim, ??P35 is giorgio
14:34:56 <Zakim> +giorgio; got it
14:35:22 <giorgio> i can do that
14:35:22 <sloandr> zakim, mute me
14:35:22 <Zakim> sloandr should now be muted
14:35:24 <christos> ack me
14:35:48 <christos> zakim, mute me
14:35:48 <Zakim> christos should now be muted
14:35:51 <giorgio> zakim, scribe is giorgio
14:35:51 <Zakim> sorry, giorgio, I do not recognize a party named 'scribe'
14:36:11 <giorgio> zakim, scribe: giorgio
14:36:11 <Zakim> I don't understand 'scribe: giorgio', giorgio
14:36:19 <giorgio> scribe: giorgio
14:37:02 <shawn> agenda?
14:37:08 <Zakim> -giorgio
14:37:22 <giorgio> no
14:37:22 <shawn> zakim, close agenda 1
14:37:22 <Zakim> agendum 1, Welcome & Logistics (Regrets, Agenda Requests, Comments), closed
14:37:24 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:37:24 <Zakim> 2. Text Customisation Note EARLY DRAFT - [from sharper]
14:37:37 <shawn> zakim, take up agenda 3
14:37:37 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Mobile Note DRAFT -" taken up [from sharper]
14:38:06 <sharper> https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2094833/RDWG%20Mobile%20Note.html
14:38:14 <markel> markel has joined #rd
14:38:37 <giorgio> sh: firrst draft of mobile webinar is out; anybody has read it?
14:38:41 <Vivienne> I had a brief look
14:39:22 <giorgio> sh: if everybody could read by next meeting so that we go though it line by line and make sure that we agree
14:39:27 <shawn> s/mobile webinar /mobile report /
14:39:30 <Zakim> +??P35
14:39:35 <Vivienne> sounds fine
14:39:36 <giorgio> sh: is everybody ok with this?
14:39:38 <giorgio> +1
14:39:46 <markel> zakim, ??P35 is markel
14:39:46 <Zakim> +markel; got it
14:40:02 <christos> +1
14:40:27 <sloandr> +1
14:40:30 <giorgio> shawn: can you go through it and give us an outline?
14:41:34 <giorgio> sh: check if related work is missing
14:42:24 <giorgio> sh: in current research should be a summary of what was dealt with
14:42:40 <yeliz> yeliz has joined #rd
14:42:52 <yeliz> Hi all, sorry I am late
14:43:00 <giorgio> sh: emerging themes is our interpretation of what came out from the webinar. This is very subjective so people can disagree here
14:43:37 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:43:41 <giorgio> sh: research roadmap is a discussion of what came out from the meeting and from the invited experts
14:43:51 <yeliz> zakim, +[IPcaller] is yeliz
14:43:51 <Zakim> sorry, yeliz, I do not recognize a party named '+[IPcaller]'
14:44:05 <giorgio> sh: we'll be happy to take any additional txt that poeple think is useful.
14:44:09 <yeliz> zakim, IPcaller is yeliz
14:44:09 <Zakim> +yeliz; got it
14:44:16 <yeliz> zakim, mute me
14:44:16 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
14:44:40 <giorgio> sh: in appendix we've thequestions and ansers, quite a lot of them
14:45:40 <giorgio> sh: this is our questions, and there is a lot of info here because there was no room in the note itself and neither in individual papers.
14:45:42 <shawn> q+ to say minor point: label the Appendix so it's clear from the TOC what it is
14:46:24 <sharper> ack shaw
14:46:24 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say minor point: label the Appendix so it's clear from the TOC what it is
14:46:26 <shawn> ack me
14:46:53 <shawn> q+ to say important point - make sure the themes of WAI work are included. see http://www.w3.org/WAI/mobile/
14:46:54 <giorgio> shawn: minor point but label the appendix with a moe infomative title, "additional other questions"
14:46:54 <yeliz> OK, thanks Shawn
14:46:56 <shawn> ack me
14:46:56 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say important point - make sure the themes of WAI work are included. see http://www.w3.org/WAI/mobile/
14:48:01 <giorgio> shawn: more importantly, make sure that a theme comes out from the report that says that guidelins are important and that it is tied to the pages we have in theWAI for mobile
14:48:24 <yeliz> Issue tracking would be good
14:48:31 <giorgio> sh: how shall we handle these comments? with a ticket tracking tool?
14:48:42 <yeliz> so we have a list of comments to be addressed
14:48:58 <giorgio> shawn: we can do that with zakim as an action
14:49:03 <shawn> important point -- while additional guidance is needed; mobile accessibility is already covered in WAI guidelines (UAAG & WCAG)
14:49:58 <sharper> Action: sharper to make explicit that Mobile accessibility already exists (with pointers) even though there can be more to do (inc links from roadmap) near the top.
14:49:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-34 - Make explicit that Mobile accessibility already exists (with pointers) even though there can be more to do (inc links from roadmap) near the top. [on Simon Harper - due 2013-01-16].
14:50:27 <sharper> action: sharper to append appendix title with more descriptive text
14:50:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-35 - Append appendix title with more descriptive text [on Simon Harper - due 2013-01-16].
14:50:39 <sharper> zakim, q?
14:50:39 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
14:51:07 <giorgio> sh: any comments?
14:51:18 <yeliz> zakim, unmute me
14:51:18 <Zakim> yeliz should no longer be muted
14:51:21 <giorgio> sh: yeliz? are you there?
14:52:47 <giorgio> yy: no  additional comments today
14:52:48 <shawn> q+ to say minor point - W3C reference style http://www.w3.org/TR/accessibility-metrics-report/#references
14:52:48 <yeliz> zakim, mute me
14:52:49 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
14:52:54 <shawn> ack me
14:52:54 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say minor point - W3C reference style http://www.w3.org/TR/accessibility-metrics-report/#references
14:52:55 <sharper> ack shawn
14:53:07 <Zakim> +??P2
14:53:18 <christos> zakim, ??P2 is me
14:53:18 <Zakim> +christos; got it
14:53:32 <giorgio> shawn: minor points, check the w3c reference style (eg brakets).
14:53:39 <christos> zakim, mute me
14:53:39 <Zakim> christos was already muted, christos
14:53:45 <yeliz> zakim, unmute me
14:53:45 <Zakim> yeliz should no longer be muted
14:53:47 <giorgio> shawn: double check with Shadi if we need to do that.
14:54:09 <giorgio> yy: references are in academic style.
14:54:28 <sharper> action: sharper to check with Shadi regarding academic style for references.
14:54:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-36 - Check with Shadi regarding academic style for references. [on Simon Harper - due 2013-01-16].
14:54:46 <yeliz> zakim, mute me
14:54:46 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
14:54:55 <giorgio> yy: in previous note there also mixed urls. Here everything is the academic style.
14:56:00 <giorgio> sh: now the document is in my dropbox.  we use bit-bucket as a version-control system. is it still ok to keep using that?
14:56:27 <giorgio> shawn: it would be better to have it in the w3c space, but I leave to Shadi to decide.
14:56:44 <giorgio> shawn: before we announce it publicly we'll need to move it to the w3c space
14:56:55 <yeliz> It's much easier to edit it I think if we have the control
14:57:04 <sloandr> zakim, unmute me
14:57:04 <Zakim> sloandr should no longer be muted
14:57:06 <giorgio> zakim, take up agenda 2
14:57:06 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Text Customisation Note EARLY DRAFT -" taken up [from sharper]
14:57:18 <sharper> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/TC4R_Draft_Report
14:57:43 <giorgio> sh: david and shawn, would you lie to talk?
14:57:49 <giorgio> s/lie/like/
14:57:58 <shawn> s/before we announce it publicly we'll need to move it to the w3c space/before we announce it publicly we'll need to move it to the w3c space -although while editing, certainly easier to have where all can edit/
14:58:04 <sloandr> ok, sorry. I'm unmuted and i can hear you
14:58:06 <giorgio> shawn: david we can't hear you.
14:58:18 <sloandr> not locally muted
14:58:32 <sloandr> will drop and call in again, sorry
14:58:36 <shawn> s/shawn: david we can't hear you./ /
14:58:41 <Zakim> -Vivienne
14:59:09 <sloandr> ah - looks like i was associated with vivienne
14:59:33 <giorgio> shawn: it is still a draft. People have had a chance to read it?
14:59:38 <shawn> zakim, sloandr is really Vivienne
14:59:38 <Zakim> +Vivienne; got it
14:59:57 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:00:03 <giorgio> shawn: any comments?
15:00:05 <sloandr> zakim, [ipcaller] is me
15:00:05 <Zakim> +sloandr; got it
15:00:06 <sharper> q+
15:00:14 <sharper> ack shar
15:00:16 <Vivienne> I started looking through it - it's looking good so far
15:00:51 <yeliz> zakim, q+
15:00:51 <Zakim> I see yeliz on the speaker queue
15:00:54 <sloandr> q+
15:01:04 <giorgio> sh: I skimmed over it. can you tell me the way it is structured? are these lists to be moved into a discussion or shall they remain as they are now?
15:01:10 <shawn> ack slo
15:01:18 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see klaus (muted), Shawn, Vivienne, annika (muted), sharper, Markku, christos (muted), markel, yeliz (muted), christos.a, sloandr
15:01:31 <shawn> zakim, mute Vivienne
15:01:31 <Zakim> Vivienne should now be muted
15:01:39 <giorgio> david: simon you're right. it's "listy" because we wanted still to think at thecontent.
15:02:44 <giorgio> david: the intention is to compress the numbr of headings
15:03:22 <giorgio> shawn: simon, where you talking about the numebr of sections or their contents?
15:03:33 <giorgio> s/where/were/
15:03:41 <Vivienne> From reading it, the content is looking 'listy', but I assumed this was because it was a draft and you are organizing your ideas.
15:03:45 <shawn> [ I think example of listy section is: <http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/TC4R_Draft_Report#Specialized_Text_Customisation_Tools> ]
15:03:55 <giorgio> sh: both.
15:04:20 <giorgio> sh: it's nice to have a flowing narrative description rather than lists.
15:04:40 <giorgio> sh: I just wanted to verify with you what was your intention.
15:04:51 <giorgio> david: it's a temporary struture.
15:05:02 <shawn> s/sh: both./sh: within sections./
15:05:46 <shawn> [ the numeric references are historical - copy & paste -- will be changed]
15:05:48 <yeliz> +1 for name and the year, it is much better for reading the text
15:06:17 <giorgio> shawn: references will be converted in the format NAME-YEAR
15:06:24 <shawn> q?
15:06:26 <sharper> zakim, q?
15:06:26 <Zakim> I see yeliz on the speaker queue
15:06:30 <yeliz> zakim, unmute yeliz
15:06:30 <Zakim> yeliz should no longer be muted
15:06:30 <sharper> ack yeliz
15:06:40 <giorgio> yy: on simon's comment
15:06:58 <sloandr> zakim, mute me
15:06:58 <Zakim> sloandr should now be muted
15:07:33 <giorgio> yy: the number of sections is too large, for lower levels ones (ie the more detaild ones).
15:07:46 <yeliz> zakim, mute me
15:07:46 <Zakim> yeliz should now be muted
15:08:00 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:08:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see klaus (muted), Shawn, Vivienne (muted), annika (muted), sharper, Markku, christos (muted), markel, yeliz (muted), christos.a, sloandr (muted)
15:08:11 <Vivienne> I can hear a real echo as well
15:08:14 <Zakim> -yeliz
15:08:17 <markel> I'm muted
15:08:17 <sharper> zakim, who is making noise?
15:08:20 <giorgio> zakim, mute me
15:08:20 <Zakim> sorry, giorgio, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
15:08:28 <Zakim> sharper, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: christos.a (26%), Markku (43%), Shawn (54%)
15:08:31 <christos> zakim, mute me
15:08:31 <Zakim> christos was already muted, christos
15:08:38 <sharper> zakim, who is making noise?
15:08:48 <Zakim> sharper, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: christos.a (50%), Shawn (14%), sharper (25%)
15:09:16 <christos> zakim, christos.a is me
15:09:16 <Zakim> +christos; got it
15:09:52 <giorgio> sh: we cut the time for review and added extra heading just to have an idea of the kind of contentwere were adding
15:10:40 <giorgio> shawn: we wanted to make sure that certain content was clear and had the appropriate emphasis, eg impact
15:11:02 <sharper> zakim, q?
15:11:02 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
15:11:11 <giorgio> sh: any other comments?
15:11:29 <shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/wiki/TC4R_Draft_Report#Summary
15:11:40 <giorgio> shawn: look at he summary, new and still drafty. let's read it now
15:13:15 <giorgio> sh: anybody has read it?
15:13:41 <trackbot> trackbot has joined #rd
15:14:00 <shawn> s/sh: anybody has read it?/ /
15:14:16 <yeliz> yeliz has joined #rd
15:14:30 <yeliz> sorry, I lost the connection :(
15:14:33 <sloandr> zakim, unmute me
15:14:33 <Zakim> sloandr should no longer be muted
15:14:36 <giorgio> sh: you talk aabout text size, font, color, but you provide a single example. Are there there examples?
15:15:10 <yeliz> Having problems with connection so will be only on IRC
15:16:02 <giorgio> david: there are 2 perspectives, and I agree with Simon that other examples could be added
15:16:20 <giorgio> shawn: please add some note as a reminder for us
15:16:52 <klaus> have to leave, sorry
15:16:57 <giorgio> sh: can you make suggesstions on how other groups (eg css people) could contribute to tackling these issues.
15:16:58 <Zakim> -klaus
15:17:23 <shawn> s/ please add some note as a reminder for us/ refresh - I added a note for reminder to us/
15:18:33 <giorgio> david I can barely hear you; lot of echo and background noise!
15:18:49 <sloandr> zakim, mute me
15:18:49 <Zakim> sloandr should now be muted
15:19:08 <annika> q+
15:19:15 <giorgio> sh: do you plan to invite experts in the field to discuss the roadmap? as we did for the mobile event.
15:19:16 <sloandr> sorry, giorgio - do you need me to summarise what i said in text?
15:19:16 <sharper> zakim, q?
15:19:16 <Zakim> I see annika on the speaker queue
15:19:44 <giorgio> shawn: I'm not sure if we want to establish a precedent with a follow up discussion
15:20:17 <yeliz> +1 for a follow up discussion
15:20:18 <giorgio> shawn: we were thinking for that input to be submitted as email, so that it is more referenceable
15:20:19 <sharper> ack ann
15:20:19 <annika> ack me
15:20:32 <yeliz> was interesting to hear some expert views on the topic
15:20:56 <giorgio> annika: consider also settings of the OS, not just those of the user agent
15:21:16 <annika> zakim, mute me
15:21:16 <Zakim> annika should now be muted
15:21:18 <sloandr> +1 to annika
15:21:24 <giorgio> shawn: great point, thank you.
15:21:32 <sharper> zakim, q?
15:21:32 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
15:22:18 <shawn> s/we were thinking for that input to be submitted as email, so that it is more referenceable/we plan to ask for specific input to the public draft. we were thinking for that input to be submitted as email, so that it is more referenceable/
15:22:20 <giorgio> sh: if have comments supply them via the rdwg mailing list
15:22:46 <giorgio> sh: next week read the mobile note as we will go line by line for changes.
15:23:06 <giorgio> sh: and then we will move to the text customization note.
15:23:20 <giorgio> sh: where are we with the easy to read note, klaus?
15:23:30 <giorgio> sh: any other business?
15:23:44 <Zakim> -Markku
15:23:47 <Vivienne> good night all.
15:23:47 <giorgio> sh: see you all next week.
15:23:57 <markel> thanks! bye
15:24:00 <giorgio> ok. it's been a pleasure. bye
15:24:01 <markel> markel has left #rd
15:24:01 <christos> gooodbye...
15:24:02 <annika> bye
15:24:03 <sloandr> thanks - bye!
15:24:06 <Zakim> -Shawn
15:24:07 <Zakim> -annika
15:24:09 <Zakim> -sloandr
15:24:09 <Zakim> -markel
15:24:10 <Zakim> -christos.aa
15:24:15 <Zakim> -Vivienne
15:24:17 <Zakim> -sharper
15:24:19 <shawn> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:24:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/09-rd-minutes.html shawn
15:24:21 <Zakim> -christos
15:24:23 <Zakim> WAI_RDWG()9:30AM has ended
15:24:23 <Zakim> Attendees were Shawn, Vivienne, klaus, annika, sharper, +1.609.734.aaaa, christos, Markku, giorgio, markel, yeliz, sloandr
15:24:27 <annika> annika has left #rd
15:24:52 <shawn> Present: Shawn, Vivienne, klaus, annika, sharper, christos, Markku, giorgio, markel, yeliz, sloandr
15:24:54 <shawn> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:24:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2013/01/09-rd-minutes.html shawn
15:29:18 <sloandr> sloandr has left #rd
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