IRC log of ldp on 2013-01-07
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:55:56 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #ldp
- 14:55:56 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2013/01/07-ldp-irc
- 14:55:58 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 14:55:58 [Zakim]
- Zakim has joined #ldp
- 14:56:00 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be LDP
- 14:56:00 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
- 14:56:01 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
- 14:56:01 [trackbot]
- Date: 07 January 2013
- 14:58:40 [W782C]
- W782C has joined #ldp
- 14:59:22 [Zakim]
- SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started
- 14:59:29 [Zakim]
- +??P0
- 14:59:32 [Zakim]
- +OpenLink_Software
- 14:59:35 [deiu]
- Zakim, ??P0 is me
- 14:59:35 [Zakim]
- +deiu; got it
- 14:59:46 [Zakim]
- +Sandro
- 14:59:51 [MacTed]
- Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me
- 14:59:51 [Zakim]
- +MacTed; got it
- 14:59:53 [MacTed]
- Zakim, mute me
- 14:59:53 [Zakim]
- MacTed should now be muted
- 14:59:55 [deiu]
- Zakim, mute me please
- 14:59:55 [Zakim]
- deiu should now be muted
- 15:00:02 [Zakim]
- +[IBM]
- 15:00:07 [Ruben]
- Ruben has joined #ldp
- 15:00:08 [Zakim]
- +Arnaud
- 15:00:13 [SteveS]
- zakim, [IBM] is me
- 15:00:14 [Zakim]
- +SteveS; got it
- 15:00:24 [BartvanLeeuwen]
- BartvanLeeuwen has joined #ldp
- 15:01:15 [MacTed]
- MacTed has changed the topic to: Linked Data Platform WG - http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/ - Today's agenda: http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon2013.01.07
- 15:01:24 [Zakim]
- +SteveBattle
- 15:01:31 [Zakim]
- + +329331aaaa
- 15:01:37 [Ruben]
- Zakim, aaaa is me
- 15:01:37 [Zakim]
- +Ruben; got it
- 15:01:38 [Zakim]
- +??P10
- 15:01:43 [Ashok_Malhotra]
- Ashok_Malhotra has joined #ldp
- 15:01:44 [Zakim]
- +??P11
- 15:01:49 [BartvanLeeuwen]
- Zakim, ??P10 is me
- 15:01:49 [Zakim]
- +BartvanLeeuwen; got it
- 15:01:52 [Ashok_Malhotra]
- zakim, code?
- 15:01:52 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 53794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Ashok_Malhotra
- 15:02:11 [JohnArwe]
- JohnArwe has joined #ldp
- 15:02:26 [Zakim]
- +Ashok_Malhotra
- 15:02:35 [Zakim]
- +JohnArwe
- 15:02:43 [W782C]
- Zakim, ??P11 is me
- 15:02:43 [Zakim]
- +W782C; got it
- 15:03:03 [Zakim]
- +bblfish
- 15:03:11 [bblfish]
- hi
- 15:03:14 [Arnaud]
- zakim, who's here?
- 15:03:14 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see bblfish, deiu (muted), MacTed (muted), Sandro, SteveS, Arnaud, SteveBattle, Ruben, BartvanLeeuwen, W782C, Ashok_Malhotra, JohnArwe
- 15:03:17 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see JohnArwe, Ashok_Malhotra, BartvanLeeuwen, Ruben, W782C, Zakim, RRSAgent, Arnaud, bhyland, MacTed, SteveS, AndyS, betehess, stevebattle, oberger, deiu, Yves, trackbot,
- 15:03:17 [Zakim]
- ... bblfish, gavinc, sandro, ericP
- 15:03:32 [krp]
- krp has joined #ldp
- 15:04:04 [Zakim]
- +Yves
- 15:04:27 [bblfish]
- happy new 2013
- 15:04:49 [Arnaud]
- zakim, pick a victim
- 15:04:49 [Zakim]
- Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose bblfish
- 15:05:23 [Arnaud]
- zakim, pick a victim
- 15:05:23 [Zakim]
- Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Ruben
- 15:05:30 [Zakim]
- +??P25
- 15:05:56 [krp]
- zakim, ??P25 is me
- 15:05:56 [Zakim]
- +krp; got it
- 15:06:14 [Zakim]
- +EricP
- 15:06:57 [Ruben]
- topic: minutes of last meeting
- 15:07:15 [SteveS]
- +1 accepted Dec 17th minutes
- 15:07:18 [Ruben]
- +1
- 15:07:20 [deiu]
- +1
- 15:07:20 [stevebattle]
- +1
- 15:07:32 [bblfish]
- minutes of http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/meeting/2012-12-17
- 15:07:35 [nmihindu]
- +1
- 15:08:02 [Ruben]
- resolved: minutes of previous meeting accepted
- 15:08:33 [Ruben]
- topic: next f2c
- 15:08:40 [Ruben]
- arnaud: Boston is proposed
- 15:08:44 [Ruben]
- proposal: make this official
- 15:09:12 [Ruben]
- scribe: Ruben
- 15:09:13 [Ashok_Malhotra]
- March 13-15 at MIT
- 15:09:14 [deiu]
- Proposal for next face to face to be held at MIT in Boston 2013-03-13 to 2013-03-15 (3 days).
- 15:09:15 [JohnArwe]
- March 13-15
- 15:09:41 [SteveS]
- +1 to freezing in Boston
- 15:09:41 [Ruben]
- Erik will set up a workshop page
- 15:10:08 [ericP]
- http://www.w3.org/2011/09/LinkedData/#venue
- 15:11:51 [Ruben]
- Sandro already reserved a room for this.
- 15:12:28 [Ruben]
- Topic: Actions and issues
- 15:12:58 [Ruben]
- No victory declared on open actions.
- 15:13:09 [sandro]
- ericP, I just confirmed, yes I reserved G882.
- 15:13:37 [Ruben]
- Arnaud: We left issue 5 open on purpose, as discussed last time.
- 15:13:52 [Ruben]
- Who is speaking?
- 15:14:00 [stevebattle]
- Issue-41 was waiting for the OK from John Arew
- 15:14:11 [stevebattle]
- s/Arew/Arwe
- 15:14:34 [sandro]
- ericP, we also have 262 reserved. Are we teleconferencing or not?
- 15:14:47 [Ruben]
- Propose: changing 5 from pending to postpone
- 15:15:28 [deiu]
- issue-41?
- 15:15:28 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-41 -- Standard way to manage members with attachments -- pending review
- 15:15:28 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/41
- 15:15:28 [Ruben]
- Arnaud: is this issue a duplicate?
- 15:15:55 [Zakim]
- -krp
- 15:15:57 [stevebattle]
- We also added text in UC&R 4.8.2 to cover this
- 15:16:09 [stevebattle]
- http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/hg/ldp-ucr.html#alternative-scenario-media-resource-attachments
- 15:16:23 [Zakim]
- +??P25
- 15:16:30 [krp]
- zakim, ??P25 is me
- 15:16:30 [Zakim]
- +krp; got it
- 15:16:38 [Ruben]
- JohnArwe: fine to close the issue
- 15:16:43 [Ruben]
- Arnaud: let's do that
- 15:17:06 [Ruben]
- all: No objections to closing this issue.
- 15:17:34 [Ruben]
- close issue 41
- 15:17:40 [JohnArwe]
- close issue-41
- 15:17:40 [trackbot]
- Closed ISSUE-41 Standard way to manage members with attachments.
- 15:17:56 [stevebattle]
- raised issues?
- 15:17:59 [trackbot]
- Sorry, JohnArwe, I don't understand 'trackbot wants dashes'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
- 15:18:16 [stevebattle]
- q+
- 15:18:36 [Arnaud]
- ack steve
- 15:18:40 [Ruben]
- stevebattle: we've got 8 bad references, just need to get document in shape
- 15:18:58 [Ruben]
- SteveS: the bad references – a patch has been submitted
- 15:19:13 [Zakim]
- -krp
- 15:19:33 [Zakim]
- +??P25
- 15:19:35 [krp]
- zakim, ??P25 is me
- 15:19:35 [Zakim]
- +krp; got it
- 15:20:50 [stevebattle]
- Arnause - we didn't cover raised issues.
- 15:20:56 [Ruben]
- arnaud: What about the specifications?
- 15:21:05 [stevebattle]
- s/Arnause/Arnaud/
- 15:21:08 [Zakim]
- -krp
- 15:21:22 [Ruben]
- JohnArwe: made some minor fixes
- 15:21:30 [Zakim]
- +??P25
- 15:22:11 [Ruben]
- topic: Discussing issues
- 15:22:32 [Ruben]
- Arnaud: ongoing discussion on aggregation versus composition
- 15:22:36 [Ruben]
- Arnaud: should we have aggregation?
- 15:22:49 [Ruben]
- Arnaud: several proposals were sent to mailing list
- 15:23:23 [ericP]
- q+ to ask if the only distinction between aggregation and composition is whether resources are deleted when their containers are deleted
- 15:23:40 [Ruben]
- Arnaud: how many proposals do we want to consider?
- 15:23:46 [Arnaud]
- ack ericp
- 15:23:46 [Zakim]
- ericP, you wanted to ask if the only distinction between aggregation and composition is whether resources are deleted when their containers are deleted
- 15:23:48 [bblfish]
- q+
- 15:23:51 [JohnArwe]
- Note that we do have a new RAISED issue, 42 about section 4.8 and its prescriptiveness
- 15:24:03 [SteveS]
- q+ to answer that question
- 15:24:17 [Ruben]
- arnaud: without a proposal, it's hard to say deleting is only difference
- 15:24:57 [bblfish]
- My simple proposals http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2012Dec/0113.html
- 15:25:13 [SteveS]
- Composition: 1) resource only "lives" in one container 2) when container is deleted, so its contents 3) may (or may not) be able to move resources between containers
- 15:25:27 [Arnaud]
- ack bblfish
- 15:26:05 [Ruben]
- bblfish: suggest simple proposals
- 15:26:10 [Ruben]
- bblfish: only create with container
- 15:26:25 [Ruben]
- bblfish: to create anything else, just create document, do updates with PUT
- 15:26:32 [Ruben]
- bblfish: PATCH is just optimization
- 15:27:27 [Ruben]
- bblfish: to delete a link, just change the document
- 15:27:28 [Arnaud]
- ack steves
- 15:27:28 [Zakim]
- SteveS, you wanted to answer that question
- 15:27:38 [Zakim]
- -??P25
- 15:27:44 [Ruben]
- SteveS: difference is that a resource is a member of one container
- 15:28:01 [Zakim]
- +??P6
- 15:28:09 [Ruben]
- SteveS: what's open, is ability to relocated from one container to another
- 15:28:09 [krp]
- zakim, ??P6 is me
- 15:28:09 [Zakim]
- +krp; got it
- 15:29:05 [Ruben]
- SteveS: comment on Henri's proposal – if the URL you're posting to is a container, or an endpoint that can handle container or resource creation?
- 15:29:13 [stevebattle]
- q+
- 15:29:14 [Ruben]
- s/if/is/
- 15:29:38 [Ruben]
- bblfish: you can create "containees"
- 15:30:02 [Ruben]
- bblfish: to create an aggregation, you POST a document containing the information about what the elements of the container you want to create are
- 15:30:27 [Ruben]
- bblfish: such a document is editable
- 15:31:03 [Ruben]
- bblfish: does that make sense?
- 15:31:06 [Ruben]
- SteveS: mostly
- 15:31:55 [Arnaud]
- ack steveb
- 15:31:57 [Ruben]
- bblfish: let's discuss on mailing list
- 15:32:16 [Ruben]
- steveb: I like Henri's example outline, but have some questions
- 15:32:22 [Ruben]
- steveb: why weak container and not LDP container?
- 15:32:38 [Ruben]
- steveb: why a fragment ID… ?
- 15:33:54 [stevebattle]
- stevebattle: I like the use of a :contains property for describing composition
- 15:34:48 [Ruben]
- bblfish; you can't do a POST to create another element
- 15:35:12 [Ruben]
- bblfish: fragement IDs: you're not dealing with a resource, helps to make distinction
- 15:35:18 [Ruben]
- s/fragement/fragment
- 15:36:10 [Zakim]
- -krp
- 15:36:15 [stevebattle]
- ok I misunderstood, I thought this could be used to create resources using POST
- 15:36:23 [Zakim]
- +??P6
- 15:36:26 [krp]
- zakim, ??P6 is me
- 15:36:26 [Zakim]
- +krp; got it
- 15:36:53 [Ruben]
- arnaud: how many proposals do we really have?
- 15:36:55 [JohnArwe]
- I [also] thought Henry's proposal could be used to create resources using POST
- 15:37:08 [JohnArwe]
- ...but that's why I ask questions ;-)
- 15:37:10 [Ruben]
- Arnaud: can we group them together?
- 15:37:21 [bblfish]
- what was the URL for that proposal?
- 15:37:37 [Ruben]
- Arnaud: we should make progress towards one proposal for addition to the spec
- 15:37:39 [SteveS]
- I propose we open an issue for week aggregation, then hook these proposals off of that
- 15:37:51 [bblfish]
- was it this one http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2012Dec/0073.html
- 15:37:52 [bblfish]
- ?
- 15:38:09 [JohnArwe]
- steve speich speaking
- 15:38:11 [Ruben]
- SteveS: we need an open issue
- 15:38:16 [JohnArwe]
- s/speich/speicher/
- 15:38:20 [ericP]
- is it worth dividing this into facets (creates resources, accepts external resources, must|may|mustn't deleted all|created resources)
- 15:38:27 [stevebattle]
- I was talking about composition???
- 15:38:35 [Ruben]
- Arnaud: can we reuse an issue for this?
- 15:38:47 [ericP]
- and then characterize the proposals according to those facets
- 15:39:00 [JohnArwe]
- issues 34 and 37 appear related
- 15:39:10 [bblfish]
- q?
- 15:39:13 [bblfish]
- q+
- 15:39:14 [Ruben]
- Arnaud: Eric started a wiki page for proposal
- 15:39:26 [Arnaud]
- s/eric/erik/
- 15:39:29 [JohnArwe]
- s/Eric/Erik/
- 15:39:37 [stevebattle]
- q+
- 15:39:40 [bblfish]
- q-
- 15:39:47 [Ashok_Malhotra]
- +1 to creating facets and use then to evaluate proposals
- 15:39:47 [SteveS]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ldp-wg/2012Dec/0118.html
- 15:39:50 [bblfish]
- thanks
- 15:39:57 [Arnaud]
- http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/ISSUE-37
- 15:40:10 [stevebattle]
- q-
- 15:40:30 [Ruben]
- issue-37?
- 15:40:30 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-37 -- What is the LDP data model and the LDP interaction model? -- open
- 15:40:30 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/37
- 15:41:48 [bblfish]
- issue-34?
- 15:41:48 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-34 -- Adding and removing arcs in weak aggregation -- open
- 15:41:48 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/34
- 15:41:49 [MacTed]
- it's safe to create a new issue, even if there's overlap -- make note of potential overlap in writeup of new issue!
- 15:42:06 [MacTed]
- if today's can be worded clearly, just create it
- 15:42:14 [Ruben]
- Arnaud: do we need another wiki page for aggregation proposal?
- 15:42:14 [ericP]
- q+
- 15:42:35 [Ruben]
- Arnaud: or do we use the mailing list (which seems a challenge)?
- 15:43:23 [SteveS]
- q+
- 15:43:46 [bblfish]
- I suppose I forgot to add the ISSUE-34 into the mail I sent
- 15:44:05 [JohnArwe]
- wrt issue 34, not too late, just add in the next reply
- 15:44:36 [JohnArwe]
- wrt your proposal henry, do you want to own yours or do you want me to take a first stab at it?
- 15:45:17 [bblfish]
- If you want to put it together, then I can see if I was able to explain myself clearly JohnArwe :-)
- 15:45:27 [Arnaud]
- Arnaud has joined #ldp
- 15:45:33 [SteveS]
- I was wondering by we needed a wiki page to track the email threads, instead of just adding emails to the issue
- 15:45:46 [JohnArwe]
- sure - post that next set of answers we spoke of earlier on this call Henry, and I'll try to start from there.
- 15:45:48 [Ruben]
- arnaud: I agree, there's a little overlap with the LDP model
- 15:45:50 [SteveS]
- but a wiki table would be good like ericP discusses
- 15:45:51 [ericP]
- ack me
- 15:46:16 [Ruben]
- Arnaud: if John's willing to do the effort of wikifying, that's great
- 15:46:22 [Arnaud]
- ack steves
- 15:46:36 [JohnArwe]
- I agree that the questions will themselves inform the set of facets in EricP's table that we end up with
- 15:46:45 [Zakim]
- -krp
- 15:46:48 [bblfish]
- JohnArwe: but just ping me when you have something basic going. Then I'll check up on it.
- 15:46:52 [Ruben]
- SteveS: to track proposals on 34, it's valuable to have one proposal to iterate on
- 15:46:58 [Zakim]
- +??P6
- 15:47:02 [krp]
- zakim, ??P6 is me
- 15:47:02 [Zakim]
- +krp; got it
- 15:47:21 [Ruben]
- Arnaud: on the issue, shall we link to the wiki page?
- 15:47:32 [Ruben]
- SteveS: someone's got to update the wiki
- 15:47:38 [Ruben]
- Arnaud: JohnArwe will do that
- 15:48:37 [Ruben]
- Arnaud: we still should tag issue numbers on mails
- 15:48:49 [bblfish]
- you can also put a link into the Issue page with a link to the wiki
- 15:48:54 [Arnaud]
- Arnaud has joined #ldp
- 15:48:54 [Zakim]
- -krp
- 15:49:07 [Zakim]
- +??P6
- 15:49:32 [Ruben]
- putting the issue number anywhere in the mail should work
- 15:50:32 [Ruben]
- Action: aggregate aggregation proposals
- 15:50:32 [trackbot]
- Error finding 'aggregate'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/users>.
- 15:50:40 [JohnArwe]
- action: johnarwe to create wiki page for issue-34 proposals
- 15:50:40 [trackbot]
- Error finding 'johnarwe'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/users>.
- 15:51:09 [bblfish]
- action: JohnArwe to create wiki page for issue-34 proposals
- 15:51:09 [trackbot]
- Error finding 'JohnArwe'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/users>.
- 15:51:15 [bblfish]
- action, JohnArwe to create wiki page for issue-34 proposals
- 15:51:18 [JohnArwe]
- action: john to create wiki page for issue-34 proposals
- 15:51:18 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-35 - Create wiki page for issue-34 proposals [on John Arwe - due 2013-01-14].
- 15:52:09 [Ruben]
- arnaud: anything else?
- 15:52:22 [Ruben]
- topic: Issue 42
- 15:52:26 [Ruben]
- issue-42?
- 15:52:26 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-42 -- Use of common-properties should not be overly prescriptive in section 4.8 -- raised
- 15:52:26 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/42
- 15:52:30 [JohnArwe]
- http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/raised
- 15:52:54 [stevebattle]
- q+
- 15:53:04 [Arnaud]
- ack steveb
- 15:53:29 [Ruben]
- stevebattle: I was reviewing the spec and noticed in 4.8 it defines a number of properties, and says that you must use them when you can
- 15:53:37 [AndyS]
- AndyS has left #ldp
- 15:53:57 [Ruben]
- stevebattle: 4.8 seems to be over-prescriptive: it may not be appropriate to use these properties in some cases
- 15:54:22 [Ruben]
- arnaud: somebody on the public list said it's more best practice
- 15:54:31 [Ruben]
- s/more/rather/
- 15:54:47 [stevebattle]
- s/somebody/Leigh Dodds/
- 15:55:06 [Ruben]
- arnaud: eventually, we agreed to remove them, because there would be a separate best practices document
- 15:55:31 [Ruben]
- arnaud: we should open this. any comments?
- 15:55:32 [SteveS]
- no comments
- 15:55:35 [stevebattle]
- +1
- 15:55:36 [Ruben]
- propose: open
- 15:55:42 [Ruben]
- accept
- 15:55:45 [Ruben]
- open issue-41
- 15:55:48 [SteveS]
- +1 to open
- 15:55:51 [MacTed]
- +1
- 15:55:52 [deiu]
- +1
- 15:55:54 [bblfish]
- +1
- 15:55:59 [nmihindu]
- +1
- 15:56:05 [Ruben]
- open issue-42
- 15:56:19 [bblfish]
- what was the question?
- 15:56:44 [stevebattle]
- +1
- 15:56:48 [Yves]
- issue42?
- 15:56:49 [Ruben]
- arnaud: …and let's close it directly, too.
- 15:56:54 [stevebattle]
- +1
- 15:56:54 [Ruben]
- issue-42?
- 15:56:54 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-42 -- Use of common-properties should not be overly prescriptive in section 4.8 -- raised
- 15:56:54 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/42
- 15:57:00 [SteveS]
- http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/Deployment_Guide
- 15:57:27 [Arnaud]
- proposal: remove section 4.8 from the ldp spec and move it to the deployment guide - it is a best practice
- 15:57:34 [bblfish]
- +1
- 15:57:35 [stevebattle]
- +1 already
- 15:57:36 [Ruben]
- +1
- 15:57:47 [SteveS]
- +1
- 15:57:51 [Zakim]
- -??P6
- 15:57:57 [deiu]
- +1
- 15:57:59 [MacTed]
- +1
- 15:58:09 [Zakim]
- +??P6
- 15:58:27 [nmihindu]
- +1
- 15:58:29 [krp]
- zakim, ??P6 is me
- 15:58:29 [Zakim]
- +krp; got it
- 15:58:32 [krp]
- +1
- 15:58:35 [Ashok_Malhotra]
- +1
- 15:58:39 [JohnArwe]
- +1
- 15:58:53 [Ruben]
- resolved
- 15:58:58 [stevebattle]
- It's a record!
- 15:59:07 [bblfish]
- RESOLVED: remove section 4.8 from the ldp spec and move it to the deployment guide - it is a best practice
- 15:59:27 [Zakim]
- -Ashok_Malhotra
- 15:59:34 [Ruben]
- arnaud: the editor now has a pending action to remove 4.8
- 16:00:11 [Ruben]
- SteveS: Robin merged changed, just one left
- 16:00:35 [Zakim]
- -MacTed
- 16:00:38 [Zakim]
- -bblfish
- 16:00:40 [Zakim]
- -SteveS
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- 16:01:47 [Zakim]
- Attendees were deiu, Sandro, MacTed, Arnaud, SteveS, SteveBattle, +329331aaaa, Ruben, BartvanLeeuwen, Ashok_Malhotra, JohnArwe, W782C, bblfish, Yves, krp, EricP
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