Chatlog 2012-12-10

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14:57:42 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ldp
14:57:42 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/12/10-ldp-irc
14:57:44 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:57:44 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ldp
14:57:46 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP
14:57:46 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see SW_LDP()10:00AM already started
14:57:47 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
14:57:47 <trackbot> Date: 10 December 2012
14:58:05 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #ldp
14:59:35 <Ashok> Ashok has joined #ldp
15:00:05 <Zakim> +Arnaud
15:00:13 <Zakim> +[IBM]
15:00:21 <dret> zakim, +1.510.206.aaaa is me
15:00:21 <Zakim> +dret; got it
15:00:23 <AndyS> zakim, code?
15:00:23 <Zakim> the conference code is 53794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), AndyS
15:00:24 <SteveBattle> SteveBattle has joined #ldp
15:00:25 <Zakim> +??P9
15:00:28 <SteveS> Zakim, [IBM] is me
15:00:28 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it
15:00:46 <dret> hello everybody!
15:00:52 <Zakim> +bblfish
15:01:12 <bblfish> hi
15:01:32 <Zakim> +??P27
15:01:35 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra
#15:01:37 <AndyS> zaki, ??P27 is me
15:01:45 <AndyS> zakim, ??P27 is me
15:01:45 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
15:02:00 <rogerm> rogerm has joined #ldp
15:02:09 <Zakim> +Yves
15:02:10 <Zakim> +rogerm
15:02:23 <Zakim> +??P30
15:02:37 <Zakim> + +44.754.550.aabb
15:03:03 <Arnaud> zakim, who's here?
15:03:03 <Zakim> On the phone I see dret, Arnaud, SteveS, ??P9, bblfish, AndyS, Ashok_Malhotra, Yves, rogerm, ??P30, +44.754.550.aabb
15:03:06 <Zakim> On IRC I see rogerm, SteveBattle, Ashok, AndyS, Zakim, RRSAgent, nmihindu, dret, deiu, MacTed, betehess, SteveS, jmvanel, Arnaud, bblfish, trackbot, ericP, sandro, Yves
15:03:17 <SteveBattle> zakim, aabb is me
15:03:17 <Zakim> +SteveBattle; got it
15:03:42 <krp> krp has joined #ldp
15:03:48 <nmihindu> Zakim, ??P30 is me
15:03:48 <Zakim> +nmihindu; got it
15:03:54 <JohnArwe> JohnArwe has joined #ldp
15:04:12 <Zakim> +JohnArwe
15:04:13 <Zakim> +[OpenLink]
15:04:19 <MacTed> Zakim, [OpenLink] is temporarily me
15:04:19 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it
15:04:20 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:04:20 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:04:33 <bblfish> hi
15:04:43 <Arnaud> zakim, who's here?
15:04:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see dret, Arnaud, SteveS, ??P9, bblfish, AndyS, Ashok_Malhotra, Yves, rogerm, nmihindu, SteveBattle, JohnArwe, MacTed (muted)
15:04:45 <Zakim> On IRC I see JohnArwe, krp, rogerm, SteveBattle, Ashok, AndyS, Zakim, RRSAgent, nmihindu, dret, deiu, MacTed, betehess, SteveS, Arnaud, bblfish, trackbot, ericP, sandro, Yves
15:05:21 <Zakim> +??P43
15:05:36 <krp> zakim, ??P43 is me
15:05:37 <Zakim> +krp; got it
15:06:07 <SteveBattle> Sorry if it was me
15:06:15 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
15:06:15 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
15:06:24 <rogerm> zakim, ??P9 is me
15:06:25 <Zakim> +rogerm; got it
15:06:25 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:06:25 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:06:49 <rogerm> zakim, ??P9 is not me
15:06:49 <Zakim> I don't understand '??P9 is not me', rogerm
15:06:53 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here?
15:06:53 <Zakim> On the phone I see dret, Arnaud, SteveS, rogerm.a, bblfish, AndyS, Ashok_Malhotra, Yves, rogerm, nmihindu, SteveBattle, JohnArwe, MacTed (muted), krp
15:06:55 <Zakim> On IRC I see JohnArwe, krp, rogerm, SteveBattle, Ashok, AndyS, Zakim, RRSAgent, nmihindu, dret, deiu, MacTed, betehess, SteveS, Arnaud, bblfish, trackbot, ericP, sandro, Yves
15:07:03 <bblfish> this is like zork
15:07:07 <MacTed> Zakim, rogerm.a is ??P9
15:07:07 <Zakim> +??P9; got it
15:07:15 <bblfish> go west
15:07:29 <Arnaud> zakim, who's here?
15:07:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see dret, Arnaud, SteveS, ??P9, bblfish, AndyS, Ashok_Malhotra, Yves, rogerm, nmihindu, SteveBattle, JohnArwe, MacTed (muted), krp
15:07:32 <Zakim> On IRC I see JohnArwe, krp, rogerm, SteveBattle, Ashok, AndyS, Zakim, RRSAgent, nmihindu, dret, deiu, MacTed, betehess, SteveS, Arnaud, bblfish, trackbot, ericP, sandro, Yves
15:07:32 <MacTed> best to ignore unidentified caller...
15:07:38 <jmvanel> jmvanel has joined #ldp
15:08:00 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
15:08:00 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
15:08:14 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:08:14 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:08:27 <JohnArwe> ruben and sandro emailed regrets
15:08:29 <bblfish> I can
<bblfish> scribe: bblfish
<bblfish> chair: Arnaud
15:08:51 <Zakim> -??P9
15:09:01 <bblfish> ok, sometimes my connection breaks
15:09:15 <Zakim> -krp
15:09:25 <svillata> svillata has joined #ldp
15:09:45 <bblfish> Topic: Previous meeting minutes
<bblfish> PROPOSED: Approve minutes from last week
15:09:49 <SteveBattle> +1
15:09:50 <cygri> cygri has joined #ldp
15:09:57 <bblfish> +1 read it but was not there
15:09:58 <Zakim> +??P43
15:10:08 <krp> zakim, ??P43 is me
15:10:08 <Zakim> +krp; got it
15:10:39 <Zakim> +MHausenblas
15:10:40 <cygri> zakim, mhausenblas is temporarily me
15:10:40 <Zakim> +cygri; got it
15:10:57 <bblfish> someone: So there was an indexical problem under 4 proposed and resolved, not clear who it was
15:11:12 <JohnArwe> s/someone/JohnArwe/
15:11:13 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
15:11:25 <bblfish> RESOLVED: minutes of last week, December 3, 2012 approved.
15:11:30 <ericP> Zakim, [GVoice] is me
15:11:31 <Zakim> +ericP; got it
15:11:41 <bblfish> Topic: Next year's F2F meeting
15:12:00 <bblfish> there seems to have been at TPAC a preference for March
15:12:37 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy?
15:12:40 <MacTed> Zakim, mute ericP
15:12:40 <Zakim> ericP should now be muted
15:12:48 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Arnaud (26%), ericP (27%)
15:12:54 <Zakim> -ericP
15:13:15 <Zakim> -krp
15:13:34 <bblfish> Arnaud: going over the situation as decided by TPAC and available online ( xxx ? )
15:13:54 <bblfish> xyz: Proposed Boston
15:14:06 <Zakim> +??P43
15:14:07 <JohnArwe> s/xyz/SteveSpeicher/
15:14:14 <bblfish> .... for reasons of it being close to a lot of people.
15:14:17 <krp> zakim, ??P43 is me
15:14:17 <Zakim> +krp; got it
15:14:32 <bblfish> Arnaud: was wondering how to go about this. A Poll?, ....
15:14:34 <Zakim> +??P46
15:14:49 <bblfish>  .... nobody seems to be voicing an opinion one way or the other.
15:14:51 <SteveS> +1 for 3 days, since we go through the trouble of traveling that far
15:14:52 <svillata> Zakim, ??P46 is me
15:14:52 <Zakim> +svillata; got it
15:15:06 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
15:15:41 <bblfish> ... 14-16 of March seems is discussed. but 13-15 would be better as it does not cover meeting
15:15:46 <SteveBattle> +1 for 3 days
15:15:48 <bblfish> roger: supports 3 days
15:16:00 <JohnArwe> march 16 is a saturday too
15:16:02 <Zakim> +[GVoice.a]
15:16:28 <Zakim> -[GVoice]
15:16:30 <bblfish> s/does not cover meeting/does not cover meeting on saturday/
15:16:42 <bblfish> Arnaud: 13-15 in Boston would be the proposal
15:16:54 <bblfish> ... needs to verify with MIT
15:17:10 <Ashok> q+
15:17:20 <bblfish> ... if those dates are workable
15:17:35 <bblfish> ashok: why not start on the 12, which is Tuesday?
15:17:52 <bblfish> Arnaud: Bart had a conflict on Tuesday
15:18:11 <achille_z> achille_z has joined #ldp
15:18:20 <bblfish> ... assuming that Erik can get the meeting rooms....
15:18:29 <bblfish> Eric is looking in his calendar
15:19:10 <bblfish> Eric: ... not the coolest room ( which is not the one next to the bar ) but with a bit of money one can get the bar
15:19:37 <bblfish> Eric: those who  sponsor the event get their name somewhere, and people can toast your company
15:19:57 <bblfish> .... 13-15 is possible on the 8th floor of Stella
15:20:11 <bblfish> Arnaud: this is going to be the default then
<bblfish> RESOLVED: F2F2 to be held at MIT in Boston on March 13-15 (3 days) - to be confirmed in January
15:20:22 <bblfish> Topic: Actions and Issues
15:20:39 <SteveBattle> q+
15:20:49 <Ashok> q-
15:20:50 <bblfish> Arnaud: anyone wants to claim his actions?
15:21:18 <SteveBattle> q-
15:21:20 <bblfish> Arnaud: Where at Actions here
15:21:43 <dret> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/ISSUE-37
15:21:49 <Zakim> -krp
15:21:58 <bblfish> s/Where at/We are at/
15:22:16 <Zakim> +??P40
15:22:28 <bblfish> which action are we speaking of?
15:23:00 <krp> zakim, ??P40 is me
15:23:00 <Zakim> +krp; got it
15:23:41 <bblfish> me. got lost sorry.
15:24:02 <bblfish> Arnaud: we can close the Action
<bblfish> RESOLVED: close action-32, page was created
15:24:07 <bblfish> close action-32
15:24:07 <trackbot> ACTION-32 create wiki page to structure and consolidate discussions around LDP model (ISSUE-37) closed
15:24:25 <bblfish> action-32?
15:24:25 <trackbot> ACTION-32 -- Erik Wilde to create wiki page to structure and consolidate discussions around LDP model (ISSUE-37) -- due 2012-12-03 -- CLOSED
15:24:25 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/32
15:24:40 <bblfish> Arnaud: Let's look at Issues...
15:25:06 <bblfish> Issue-40?
15:25:06 <trackbot> ISSUE-40 -- creating/deleting/changing non RDF resources -- raised
15:25:06 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/40
15:25:16 <Zakim> +??P43
15:25:23 <deiu> Zakim, ??P43 is me
15:25:23 <Zakim> +deiu; got it
15:25:24 <bblfish> Issue-41?
15:25:24 <trackbot> ISSUE-41 -- Standard way to manage members with attachments -- raised
15:25:24 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/41
15:26:12 <SteveBattle> q+
15:27:46 <bblfish> SteveBattle: Added the corresponding use case 8 for this, so I think Issue-40 can be opened and closed.
<bblfish> Arnaud: let's mark it as pending and we can close it next week
#15:28:03 <bblfish> open Issue-40
#15:28:35 <bblfish> open issue-40
15:28:51 <SteveBattle> q-
15:29:11 <bblfish> RESOLVED: set Issue-40 to pending review
15:29:37 <bblfish> talking about Issue-41
15:29:50 <SteveBattle> q+
15:30:09 <Zakim> -krp
15:30:19 <Arnaud> ack steveb
15:30:32 <Zakim> +??P40
15:30:35 <bblfish> SteveBattle: has added scenarios covering Issue-41 to use case 8
15:31:03 <krp> zakim, ??P40 is me
15:31:03 <Zakim> +krp; got it
15:31:35 <bblfish> .... so this can be put to pending review
15:31:53 <bblfish> please set it
<bblfish> RESOLVED: set Issue-41 to pending review
15:32:00 <Zakim> -SteveBattle
15:32:20 <Zakim> -krp
15:32:21 <bblfish> ok, I updated it to pending rewview
15:32:42 <bblfish> Topic: Use Cases And Requirements
15:33:10 <bblfish> Arnaud: Is the document ready for review?
15:33:15 <SteveBattle> q-
15:33:21 <bblfish> q?
15:33:25 <SteveBattle> I've dropped off the call
15:33:40 <bblfish> SteveBattle: do you believe it is ready for review?
15:33:41 <ericP> SteveBattle, do you want to push for WG review on UC&R today?
15:33:49 <SteveBattle> Yes please
15:34:04 <ericP> roger
15:34:15 <SteveBattle> We'll freeze the document for the coming week.
15:34:19 <bblfish> So the plan is for the WG to review the UCR for next monday
15:34:46 <Zakim> +??P31
15:35:02 <bblfish> Arnaud: So the aim is to get the document to be published before the end of the year
15:35:11 <krp> zakim, ??P31 is me
15:35:11 <Zakim> +krp; got it
15:35:13 <Zakim> +SteveBattle
15:35:20 <bblfish> Zakim, who is speaking?
15:35:31 <Zakim> bblfish, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: dret (3%), Arnaud (33%)
15:35:33 <SteveBattle> OK - I'm back
15:35:51 <bblfish> people need to look at what is in there.
15:35:53 <SteveBattle> q+
15:36:26 <Arnaud> ack steveb
15:36:53 <bblfish> SteveBattle: asking people to review the content, the examples, is there something that should be taken out, is in scope, ...
15:37:06 <bblfish> Arnaud: we can annotate the document with open issues.
15:37:32 <bblfish> ... so that we don't have to resolve the issues, but we can annotate them
15:38:03 <bblfish> SteveBattle: Please try to get reviews in before Friday...
15:38:16 <bblfish> who is speaking?
15:38:21 <Arnaud> ericp
15:38:28 <ericP>  SOTD: The WG intends to address the use cases and requirements in the document. Other use cases and requirements may be added in the future. We invite community feedback on these and other use cases.
15:39:08 <bblfish> ericp: propose a status of the document so that people would know ( ? )
15:39:24 <bblfish> ... so reviewers can understand what they are reviewing to
15:39:26 <SteveS> +1 to ericP's SOTD
15:39:27 <SteveBattle> OK - we'll add that.
15:40:38 <bblfish> ericp: an html version of this document that passes the pubrules requirements
15:40:58 <bblfish> ericp: there is a wiki page somewhere explaining this ( please point us to it if you have it )
15:41:14 <bblfish> SteveBattle: we'll use respec version 3
15:41:30 <SteveBattle> s/SteveBattle/SteveSpeicher/
15:41:37 <bblfish> ericP: we need to look at what the short name should be
15:41:48 <bblfish> SteveSpeicher: ldp-ucr?
15:42:08 <Zakim> -krp
15:42:19 <SteveBattle> That's what we're pushing for :)
15:42:21 <bblfish> Arnaud: it would be great if we can publish this before the end of the eyar
15:42:32 <bblfish> s/eyar/year/
15:42:34 <Zakim> +??P31
15:42:38 <bblfish> Topic: LDP spec
15:43:46 <bblfish> Arnaud: the charter requires a refresh of the spec, beginning of 2013 January
15:44:03 <bblfish> ... but I am not sure we have made enough progress
15:44:26 <bblfish> ... and it is good to help us make progress
#15:44:35 <bblfish> Zakim, who is speaking?
15:44:46 <Zakim> bblfish, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: dret (21%)
15:45:02 <bblfish> dret: looking at issue 38
15:45:30 <Arnaud> s/dret/steves/
15:45:41 <JohnArwe> I also expect to spend a block of time over the holidays trying to clean up anything I can on spec.
15:45:53 <bblfish> Steve Spiker: looking at issue 38 and this could make some changes to spec
#15:46:02 <JohnArwe> s/Spiker/Speicher/
15:46:21 <SteveS> s/Steve Spiker/SteveS/
15:48:27 <bblfish> Ashok: you have written up the AtomPub part but ours is somewhat different, where we can create and delete collections, so then we have to speak of collections, what happens to the members
15:48:29 <SteveS> q+
15:48:52 <Zakim> -??P31
15:49:14 <Zakim> +??P31
15:49:50 <bblfish> xxx: we are doing something more complex indeed that AtomPub, but we have it
15:50:04 <JohnArwe> s/xxx/Ashok/
15:50:15 <bblfish> SteveS: we have issues for this in the tracker
#15:50:23 <bblfish> who is speaking?
#15:50:34 <Arnaud> dret
15:50:49 <bblfish> dret: we can link open issues to this page ( which one again?)
15:51:12 <dret> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/ISSUE-37 is the page
15:51:16 <bblfish> thanks
15:51:42 <Zakim> -??P31
15:52:06 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
15:52:06 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
15:52:09 <bblfish> Ashok: are you asking that I should edit the wiki page that dret wrote up.
15:52:22 <bblfish> Arnaud: everybody should be ok to edit this page
15:52:58 <SteveS> q-
15:53:02 <bblfish> dret: that's ok I did this for AtomPub, and I think it would be good if other people can do the same for other protocols
15:53:26 <bblfish> dret: it is useful to help see what kinds of questions we need to answer.
15:53:39 <bblfish> Arnaud: this page gives us a framework.
15:53:49 <MacTed> q+
15:54:02 <Ashok> Ashok has joined #ldp
15:54:17 <bblfish> Arnaud: regarding the issues, we can have references from that wiki page to the open issues
15:54:39 <Zakim> +??P31
15:54:40 <bblfish> MacTed: this page is to expose issues by analysing these other protocols in parallel to our stuff.
15:54:59 <bblfish> agreement  all around.
15:55:25 <bblfish> MacTed: requests a bit richer use of html
15:55:44 <bblfish> MacTed: in the first paragraph "any atompub server exposes a "service document" (http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5023#section-8) "
15:55:49 <krp> zakim, ??P31 is me
15:55:49 <Zakim> +krp; got it
15:56:08 <bblfish> this should be [http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5023#section-8 service document]
15:56:10 <SteveS> q+
15:56:32 <Zakim> -krp
15:56:39 <MacTed> ack me
15:56:40 <bblfish> dret: I'll do that, just had pasted my e-mail to the wiki
15:56:47 <Arnaud> ack macted
15:56:49 <Zakim> +??P31
#15:56:55 <MacTed> ack
#15:57:06 <bblfish> ack
#15:57:07 <Arnaud> ack issue-30
15:57:18 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me
15:57:18 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted
15:57:21 <MacTed> issue-30?
15:57:21 <trackbot> ISSUE-30 -- Hierarchical bugtracking service -- open
15:57:21 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/30
15:57:31 <SteveBattle> q+
#15:57:47 <Arnaud> ack
15:57:53 <Arnaud> ack steveb
15:58:25 <bblfish> SteveBattle: this is can be closed, it was moved to ucr
15:58:34 <MacTed> PROPOSAL: close issue-30, it was moved to UCR
15:58:41 <SteveBattle> +1
15:58:52 <SteveS> +1
15:58:52 <MacTed> +1
15:58:54 <cygri> +1
15:58:55 <svillata> +1
15:58:56 <Arnaud> +1
15:58:57 <krp> +1
15:59:02 <rogerm> +1
15:59:09 <bblfish> close issue-30
15:59:09 <trackbot> ISSUE-30 Hierarchical bugtracking service closed
15:59:16 <MacTed> RESOLVED: close issue-30, it was moved to UCR
15:59:34 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me
15:59:34 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted
16:00:15 <MacTed> q+
16:00:18 <bblfish> Arnaud: the only way to make progress is to close these issues
16:00:26 <bblfish> ... and this needs proposals
16:00:56 <bblfish> Arnaud: so is suggesting to go down the list and propose to close the issue
16:01:10 <Arnaud> ack macted
16:01:15 <Zakim> -SteveS
16:01:45 <bblfish> ... if people don't have proposals then the issue gets closed
<bblfish> ... if someone objects to closing the issue they will have to take an action to make a proposal
16:02:07 <dret> thanks everybody!
16:02:13 <SteveBattle> Thanks
16:02:13 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra
16:02:15 <Zakim> -rogerm
16:02:15 <Zakim> -Yves
16:02:15 <bblfish> MacTed: suggests that there should be a heads up on which issues should be decided in the topics for the teleconf
<bblfish> Arnaud: yes, we can do that
16:02:16 <svillata> bye
16:02:18 <bblfish> bye
16:02:18 <Zakim> -MacTed
16:02:19 <Zakim> -cygri
16:02:20 <Zakim> -Arnaud
16:02:21 <Zakim> -dret
16:02:23 <Zakim> -deiu
16:02:24 <Zakim> -ericP
16:02:24 <Zakim> -svillata
16:02:26 <Zakim> -bblfish
16:02:28 <Zakim> -??P31
16:02:31 <Zakim> -JohnArwe
16:02:33 <Ashok> rrsagent, pointer?
16:02:33 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2012/12/10-ldp-irc#T16-02-33
16:02:36 <Zakim> -AndyS
16:02:38 <Zakim> -SteveBattle
16:02:59 <MacTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:02:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/10-ldp-minutes.html MacTed
16:03:02 <MacTed> RRSAgent, set logs public
16:03:05 <Zakim> -nmihindu
16:03:07 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended
16:03:07 <Zakim> Attendees were Arnaud, dret, SteveS, bblfish, Ashok_Malhotra, AndyS, Yves, rogerm, +44.754.550.aabb, SteveBattle, nmihindu, JohnArwe, MacTed, krp, ??P9, cygri, ericP, svillata,
16:03:07 <Zakim> ... [GVoice], deiu
16:03:12 <AndyS> AndyS has left #ldp
16:03:21 <MacTed> trackbot, end meeting
16:03:21 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:03:22 <Zakim> sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
16:03:29 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:03:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/10-ldp-minutes.html trackbot
16:03:30 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:03:30 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
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