Chatlog 2012-10-08

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13:57:23 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ldp
13:57:23 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/08-ldp-irc
13:57:25 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:57:25 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ldp
13:57:27 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP
13:57:27 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_LDP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
13:57:28 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference
13:57:28 <trackbot> Date: 08 October 2012
13:57:41 <BartvanLeeuwen> BartvanLeeuwen has joined #ldp
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13:58:30 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has now started
13:58:37 <Zakim> +??P0
13:58:48 <Zakim> + +1.408.996.aaaa
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13:58:57 <Arnaud> zakim, aaaa is me
13:58:57 <Zakim> +Arnaud; got it
13:58:59 <Zakim> -??P0
13:59:03 <Zakim> +??P2
13:59:29 <ghard> ghard has joined #ldp
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13:59:56 <Zakim> + +44.117.370.aabb
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14:00:04 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:00:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see Arnaud, ??P2, ??P7, +44.117.370.aabb, ??P0, ??P4
14:00:04 <Zakim> +[IBM]
14:00:09 <nmihindu> zakim, P2 is me
14:00:09 <Zakim> sorry, nmihindu, I do not recognize a party named 'P2'
14:00:18 <SteveS> zakim, [IBM] is me
14:00:18 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it
14:00:25 <Zakim> -??P0
14:00:25 <stevebattle> zakim, +44.117.370.aabb is me
14:00:25 <Zakim> +stevebattle; got it
14:00:30 <svillata> Zakim, ??P7 is me
14:00:30 <Zakim> +svillata; got it
14:00:46 <Zakim> +??P0
14:01:00 <rgarcia> zakim, ??P0 is me
14:01:00 <Zakim> +rgarcia; got it
14:01:10 <nmihindu> Zakim, ??P2 is me
14:01:10 <Zakim> +nmihindu; got it
14:01:26 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:01:26 <Zakim> On the phone I see Arnaud, nmihindu, svillata, stevebattle, ??P4, SteveS, rgarcia
14:01:28 <Zakim> +??P11
14:01:37 <Zakim> + +1.845.433.aacc
14:01:37 <ghard> zakim, ??P11 is me
14:01:39 <Zakim> +ghard; got it
14:01:43 <JohnArwe> JohnArwe has joined #ldp
14:02:13 <Zakim> +??P5
14:02:17 <BartvanLeeuwen> Zakim, ??p5 is me
14:02:17 <Zakim> +BartvanLeeuwen; got it
14:02:26 <jkopecky> jkopecky has joined #ldp
14:02:26 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #ldp
14:02:35 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:02:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see Arnaud, nmihindu, svillata, stevebattle, ??P4, SteveS, rgarcia, ghard, +1.845.433.aacc, BartvanLeeuwen
14:02:40 <Zakim> + +44.208.573.aadd
14:03:01 <rogerm> rogerm has joined #ldp
14:03:04 <Zakim> +??P16
14:03:20 <rogerm> rogermenday is on the call 
14:03:23 <JohnArwe> zakim, aacc is me
14:03:23 <Zakim> +JohnArwe; got it
14:03:23 <antonis> zakim, ??p16 is me
14:03:24 <Zakim> +antonis; got it
14:03:47 <ArthurK> ArthurK has joined #ldp
14:03:47 <Kalpa> Kalpa has joined #ldp
14:04:01 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:04:01 <Zakim> On the phone I see Arnaud, nmihindu, svillata, stevebattle, ??P4, SteveS, rgarcia, ghard, JohnArwe, BartvanLeeuwen, +44.208.573.aadd, antonis
14:04:07 <Zakim> +??P17
14:04:13 <jkopecky> zakim, ??P17 is me
14:04:13 <Zakim> +jkopecky; got it
14:04:18 <Zakim> +bblfish
14:04:53 <JohnArwe> zakim, aadd is bblfish
14:04:53 <Zakim> +bblfish; got it
14:04:54 <bblfish> bblfish has joined #ldp
14:05:06 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:05:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see Arnaud, nmihindu, svillata, stevebattle, ??P4, SteveS, rgarcia, ghard, JohnArwe, BartvanLeeuwen, bblfish.a, antonis, jkopecky, bblfish
14:05:11 <AndyS> AndyS has left #ldp
14:05:23 <bblfish> oh two bblfishes?
14:05:42 <Zakim> + +1.937.775.aaee
14:05:45 <bblfish> on the phone, that seems odd
14:05:49 <Zakim> +ArthurK
14:05:51 <Zakim> -ArthurK
14:05:58 <Kalpa> zakim, aaee is me
14:05:58 <Zakim> +Kalpa; got it
14:05:59 <bblfish> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:05:59 <Zakim> On the phone I see Arnaud, nmihindu, svillata, stevebattle, ??P4, SteveS, rgarcia, ghard, JohnArwe, BartvanLeeuwen, bblfish.a, antonis, jkopecky, bblfish, Kalpa
14:06:11 <JohnArwe> henry, IRC show a + and then a - bblfish just a few lines back ... seems like a transient
14:06:36 <JohnArwe> * but steve you have 2 ears
14:06:44 <Zakim> +ArthurK
14:07:14 <AndyS_> AndyS_ has joined #ldp
14:08:50 <Zakim> +??P20
14:09:06 <oberger> Zakim, ??P20 is me
14:09:06 <Zakim> +oberger; got it
14:09:13 <oberger> sorry a bit late
14:11:49 <ghard> http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/manual.html
14:12:03 <oberger> who's the scribe, then ?
14:12:15 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #ldp
14:12:59 <stevebattle> Scribe: Kalpa
14:13:01 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:13:05 <oberger> Minutes from last meeting
14:13:14 <Kalpa> approving the minutes from the last week
14:13:14 <AndyS> zakim, IPCaller is me
14:13:14 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it
14:13:18 <oberger> good luck Kalpa ;-)
14:13:27 <bblfish>  Approved: Minutes from Oct 1st
14:13:28 <Kalpa> last week's minutes (Oct 1st) approved
14:13:31 <SteveS> +1 for approving Oct 1st
14:13:57 <oberger> and they say we don't work in France ;)
14:14:46 <Kalpa> registering for FacetoFace meeting and please register for the event
14:14:52 <SteveS_> SteveS_ has joined #ldp
14:14:54 <Arnaud> q?
14:15:08 <Kalpa> deadline to get discount is Oct 16th
14:15:31 <Kalpa> moving onto actions list.
14:15:35 <SteveS> See http://www.w3.org/2012/10/TPAC/Overview.html#fees for deadline and fee details
14:16:42 <oberger> I think I saw some mention of SDShare from Mhausenblas
14:17:11 <oberger> do we need a twitter account to syndicate or is #ldp enough ?
14:18:06 <SteveS> Proposed W3C Community Group for SDshare http://www.w3.org/community/blog/2012/10/05/proposed-group-sdshare-community-group/
14:18:15 <oberger> (Mhausenblas proposal for stepping down from editor's role)
14:18:59 <Kalpa> oberger: Mhausenblas request to step down from editor's role
14:19:03 <oberger> ^ to b discussed later
14:19:36 <JohnArwe> kalpa, WG home page has a link near bottom under ...Resources to common scribe manual if you want to read up on the tools ... pts to http://www.w3.org/2009/CommonScribe/manual
14:20:00 <bblfish> Issue-9?
14:20:00 <trackbot> ISSUE-9 -- Should properties used in BPR representations be BPRs? -- raised
14:20:00 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/9
14:20:22 <SteveS> Topic: discussing pending issues and transitioning to open
14:20:51 <SteveS> +1 ISSUE-9 to open
14:21:07 <bblfish> +1 good points. The vocabulary is too strict here
14:21:59 <Kalpa> moving onto discuss about issues. follow the link http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues
14:22:09 <bblfish> Issue-9 open
14:22:14 <bblfish> open Issue-9 
14:22:36 <Kalpa> no objections to open issue 9
14:22:56 <JohnArwe> trackbot, open issue-9
14:22:56 <trackbot> Sorry, JohnArwe, I don't understand 'trackbot, open issue-9'. Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc for help
14:23:33 <Arnaud> issue-9 open
14:24:03 <bblfish> open ISSUE-9
14:24:03 <oberger> the docs don't seem to mention opening them in http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc
14:24:11 <bblfish> reopen ISSUE-9
14:24:11 <trackbot> ISSUE-9 Should properties used in BPR representations be BPRs? re-opened
14:24:24 <bblfish> Issue-10?
14:24:24 <trackbot> ISSUE-10 -- Include clarifications and guidance around ETags -- raised
14:24:24 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/10
14:24:49 <Kalpa> discussing issue 10, no objects to open issue 10
14:24:50 <stevebattle> +1 important to distinguish between strong and weak etags
14:24:57 <bblfish> Issue-11?
14:24:57 <trackbot> ISSUE-11 -- Do we need to define server-managed properties or do we leave them to applications? -- raised
14:24:57 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/11
14:25:57 <oberger> +1 for the MAY
14:26:04 <Kalpa> no objects to open issue 11 and opening issue 11
14:26:05 <SteveS> open ISSUE-11
14:26:18 <bblfish> reopen Issue-11
14:26:18 <trackbot> ISSUE-11 Do we need to define server-managed properties or do we leave them to applications? re-opened
14:26:32 <bblfish> Issue-12?
14:26:32 <trackbot> ISSUE-12 -- Can HTTP PATCH be used for resource creation? -- raised
14:26:32 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/12
14:26:38 <bblfish> wait too quickly?
14:26:47 <Kalpa> opening issue 12 and moving to issue 13
14:27:10 <SteveS> reopen ISSUE-10
14:27:10 <trackbot> ISSUE-10 Include clarifications and guidance around ETags re-opened
14:27:17 <bblfish> Issue-13?
14:27:17 <trackbot> ISSUE-13 -- Include clarifications about BPC representations that include member triples -- raised
14:27:17 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/13
14:27:17 <stevebattle> +1 interesting I have UC examples of resources being created as side effect of patch
14:27:52 <Kalpa> opening issue 13
14:27:57 <SteveS> reopen ISSUE-12
14:27:59 <trackbot> ISSUE-12 Can HTTP PATCH be used for resource creation? re-opened
14:28:06 <SteveS> reopen ISSUE-13
14:28:07 <trackbot> ISSUE-13 Include clarifications about BPC representations that include member triples re-opened
14:28:09 <bblfish> Issue-14?
14:28:09 <trackbot> ISSUE-14 -- Include clarifications about ordering in BPC representations -- raised
14:28:09 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/14
14:29:22 <stevebattle> How are different ordering affordances defined?
14:29:38 <JohnArwe> it is the *representation* that is ordered, not the triples themselves
14:31:05 <stevebattle> I guess if you want a semantic ordering you use a List
14:32:11 <oberger> need a use case
14:32:21 <Arnaud> q?
14:32:24 <SteveS> reopen ISSUE-14
14:32:24 <trackbot> ISSUE-14 Include clarifications about ordering in BPC representations re-opened
14:32:32 <Kalpa> opening issue 14 for now and sicuss further later
14:32:40 <bblfish> Issue-15?
14:32:40 <trackbot> ISSUE-15 -- sharing binary resources and metadata -- raised
14:32:40 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/15
14:32:50 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:32:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see Arnaud, nmihindu, svillata, stevebattle, ??P4, SteveS, rgarcia, ghard, JohnArwe, BartvanLeeuwen, bblfish.a, antonis, jkopecky, bblfish, Kalpa, ArthurK, oberger,
14:32:53 <Zakim> ... AndyS
14:33:30 <stevebattle> Does issue-15 relate to the use of wrds:describedby?
14:33:42 <Kalpa> issue 15 - what is a resource.
14:33:50 <SteveS> reopen ISSUE-15
14:33:50 <trackbot> ISSUE-15 sharing binary resources and metadata re-opened
14:33:58 <Kalpa> Arnaud: any disagreements for opening issue 15?
14:34:07 <Kalpa> no objects and opening issue 15
14:35:00 <bblfish> Issue-15?
14:35:00 <trackbot> ISSUE-15 -- sharing binary resources and metadata -- open
14:35:00 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/15
14:35:08 <Kalpa> opening issue 16
14:35:13 <SteveS> reopen ISSUE-16
14:35:14 <trackbot> ISSUE-16 Redirection of non-information resources to BPRs re-opened
14:35:23 <bblfish> Issue-16?
14:35:23 <trackbot> ISSUE-16 -- Redirection of non-information resources to BPRs -- open
14:35:23 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/16
14:35:30 <bblfish> Issue-17?
14:35:30 <trackbot> ISSUE-17 -- changesets as a recommended PATCH format -- raised
14:35:30 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/17
14:35:43 <bblfish> +1
14:35:54 <Zakim> -ArthurK
14:35:56 <SteveS> +1
14:36:08 <rgarcia> +1
14:36:34 <bblfish> Essentially one would want to take SPARQL update and turn it into a PATCH
14:36:38 <SteveS> reopen ISSUE-17
14:36:38 <trackbot> ISSUE-17 changesets as a recommended PATCH format re-opened
14:36:39 <Kalpa> Arnaud: is http patch in issue 17 is the same as from raul?
14:36:39 <bblfish> no?
14:36:43 <Zakim> -svillata
14:36:51 <bblfish> Issue-18?
14:36:51 <trackbot> ISSUE-18 -- container membership and robust pagination -- raised
14:36:51 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/18
14:36:57 <Kalpa> issue 17 is a different issue and opening issue 17
14:37:48 <AndyS> Why not status code 501?
14:41:22 <AndyS> In the LDA, the response has response metadata e.g. #pages. so you can go to last.
14:41:46 <Kalpa> opening issue 18
14:41:47 <SteveS> reopen ISSUE-18
14:41:47 <trackbot> ISSUE-18 container membership and robust pagination re-opened
14:41:56 <bblfish> Opening Issue-18 but not a big issue because URLs are in fact opaque. Should be easy to close
14:42:03 <bblfish> Issue-19?
14:42:03 <trackbot> ISSUE-19 -- Adressing more error cases -- raised
14:42:03 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/19
14:42:17 <oberger> can't seem to unmute
14:42:53 <AndyS> zakim, unmute oberger
14:42:53 <Zakim> oberger was not muted, AndyS
14:42:53 <Kalpa> Arnaud: issue 19 is important and there is not many links in the issue page
14:43:20 <Zakim> +??P7
14:43:52 <Kalpa> enough discussion in the mailing list and hence propose to open the issue 19
14:44:04 <Kalpa> no objects and opening issue 19
14:44:05 <JohnArwe> thread 10/1-10/3 about 8 emails
14:44:06 <SteveS> reopen ISSUE-19
14:44:06 <trackbot> ISSUE-19 Adressing more error cases re-opened
14:44:13 <bblfish> Issue-20?
14:44:13 <trackbot> ISSUE-20 -- Identifying and naming POSTed resources -- raised
14:44:13 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/issues/20
14:44:28 <JohnArwe> ...did not have issue # so nothing for tracker to latch onto
14:45:25 <bblfish> q?
14:46:19 <bblfish> <>
14:46:29 <bblfish> <> <#me>
14:47:09 <oberger> <_POSTED_> ?
14:47:23 <jkopecky> q? to ask if that's allowed
14:47:24 <SteveS> seems fine for RDF docs, what about if I want to name a non-RDF resource such as steve_profile.gif?
14:47:37 <jkopecky> q+ to ask if that's allowed
14:47:46 <AndyS> It's the target of the request - ie. the HTTP container.
14:48:02 <jkopecky> q- 
14:48:15 <AndyS> but "willful violation" may be the right approach.
14:48:19 <bblfish> ok.
14:48:25 <bblfish> I'have to go early now.
14:48:29 <bblfish> sorry
14:48:35 <Zakim> -bblfish
14:48:49 <Kalpa> opening issue 20 
14:49:53 <Kalpa> opening issue 21
14:49:53 <SteveS> reopen ISSUE-20
14:49:53 <trackbot> ISSUE-20 Identifying and naming POSTed resources re-opened
14:49:59 <SteveS> reopen ISSUE-21
14:49:59 <trackbot> ISSUE-21 container affordances re-opened
14:50:37 <stevebattle> not comfortable with 'willfull vioation' !
14:51:31 <AndyS> Base URI determination -- RFC 3986 section 5.1
14:51:32 <stevebattle> s/vioation/violation/
<Arnaud> topic: Specification
14:52:14 <Kalpa> Arnaud: today is the deadline to raise issues. If you find an issue you can and should still raise it but we may not have time to process it before publication and it will be at the editors' discretion whether they appear in the draft or not. Editors will annotate the draft with all open issues as of today.
<Arnaud> Arnaud: Spec editors we are on track to have the spec in two weeks?
<Arnaud> SteveS: yes
14:52:33 <oberger> again, what do we do with mhausenblas' editor chair ?
14:52:41 <AndyS> http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3986#section-5.1
14:53:02 <rgarcia> I sent an email about rewriting improvements, it is not a "serious issue" but I would take in into account
14:53:33 <oberger> ah, my bad
14:53:47 <oberger> mhausenblas only stepped down from use case
14:53:55 <Kalpa> Topic: usecase and requirements
14:53:56 <Zakim> -??P7
<Arnaud> stevebattle: done with the initial pass
14:54:25 <Kalpa> people need to review the document for mistakes 
14:55:46 <Kalpa> 2 weeks for reviewing documents
14:55:55 <oberger> and raising issues
<Arnaud> Arnaud: we will go through a process similar to what we are doing for the spec, people should raise issues they find and we will decide what to do with them
<Arnaud> Arnaud: Regarding Michael stepping down as editor I believe we discussed this last week and you're ok with that for now?
<Arnaud> stevebattle: yes
<Arnaud> Arnaud: Ok, if you ever need help just let us know and we'll see to get someone else to help
<Arnaud> topic: Issue-8 Specification Name
14:56:29 <Kalpa> Arnaud: we ended last week's call discussing the issue with the name of the specification
14:56:39 <oberger> back to Issue-8
<Arnaud> Arnaud: we really should resolve this before we publish our first draft, while several names have been proposed, I think we should stick with either the name of the member submission or the wg
14:56:55 <Kalpa> ... linked data profile or linked data platform
14:57:15 <stevebattle> 'linked data platform' is my choice
14:57:22 <oberger> let's get drunk in Lyon and decide
14:57:34 <SteveS> my proposal, which many seemed happy with last week, is 'Linked Data Platform"�'
14:57:37 <rgarcia> My vote: 
14:57:37 <rgarcia> Linked Data Platform Resource + Linked Data Platform Container (LDP Resource + LDP Container)
14:57:51 <oberger> damn it
14:58:35 <ghard> LOL
14:59:40 <stevebattle> +1 LDP Resource + LDP Container
14:59:54 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1 LDP Resource + Container
14:59:58 <Arnaud> strawpoll: use the name: linked data platform
15:00:09 <oberger> +1 LDP Resource + LDP Container
15:00:20 <svillata> +1 LDP Resource + Container
15:00:33 <SteveS> +1 for LDP = Linked Data Platform
15:00:43 <jkopecky> how about Linked Data Platform Specification (rather than just LD Platform)
15:00:47 <SteveS> and LDP is the name of the spec
15:00:54 <Arnaud> +1
15:01:03 <jkopecky> LDP would be short for Linked Data Platform Specification
15:01:08 <stevebattle> Whatever Arnaud says.
15:02:12 <jkopecky> LDP would be short for Linked Data Platform Specification
15:02:24 <Zakim>  -bblfish.a
15:02:36 <rgarcia> An W3C recommendation is synonym to specification
15:02:41 <SteveS> Proposal: LDP = Linked Data Platform for specification name, removing LDBP
15:02:47 <oberger> Issue-8 pending review ?
15:03:10 <Kalpa> Arnaud: issue 8 is tentatively resolved, pending review, we will need to resolve it next week.
15:03:15 <jkopecky> raul, yes, but "W3C Recommendation" is a subtitle, so that's why I'd like to have "Spec" in the title there
15:03:42 <rgarcia> OK, can live with that. :)
15:03:55 <oberger> and let's get drunk in Lyon anyway ;)
15:04:02 <jkopecky> do enjoy 8-)
<Arnaud> steves: will wait for final resolution to update the draft
15:04:22 <Zakim> -JohnArwe
15:04:27 <ghard> Cheers
15:04:33 <oberger> bye
15:04:37 <BartvanLeeuwen> bye
15:04:38 <svillata> bye
15:04:39 <Zakim> -oberger
15:04:39 <antonis> cheers- bye
15:04:40 <Zakim> -ghard
15:04:41 <Zakim> -SteveS
15:04:42 <Zakim> -AndyS
15:04:42 <Zakim> -jkopecky
15:04:43 <Zakim> -rgarcia
15:04:43 <Zakim> -Arnaud
15:04:44 <Zakim> -stevebattle
15:04:45 <Zakim> -BartvanLeeuwen
15:04:48 <Zakim> -antonis
15:04:49 <Arnaud> meeting adjourned
15:04:50 <Zakim> -??P4
15:04:52 <Zakim> -Kalpa
15:04:54 <Zakim> -nmihindu
15:04:54 <AndyS> AndyS has left #ldp
15:04:56 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended
15:04:58 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.408.996.aaaa, Arnaud, SteveS, stevebattle, svillata, rgarcia, nmihindu, +1.845.433.aacc, ghard, BartvanLeeuwen, +44.208.573.aadd, JohnArwe, antonis, jkopecky,
15:05:01 <Zakim> ... bblfish, +1.937.775.aaee, ArthurK, Kalpa, oberger, AndyS
15:10:25 <stevebattle> stevebattle has joined #ldp
15:15:52 <JohnArwe> JohnArwe has joined #ldp
15:39:16 <SteveS> SteveS has joined #ldp
16:00:40 <SteveS_> SteveS_ has joined #ldp
16:13:22 <gavinc> gavinc has joined #ldp
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