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Chatlog 2012-08-20
From Linked Data Platform
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13:57:00 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ldp 13:57:00 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/20-ldp-irc 13:57:02 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public 13:57:02 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ldp 13:57:04 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be LDP 13:57:04 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see SW_LDP()10:00AM already started 13:57:05 <trackbot> Meeting: Linked Data Platform (LDP) Working Group Teleconference 13:57:05 <trackbot> Date: 20 August 2012 13:58:31 <Zakim> + +1.510.206.aaaa 13:58:33 <ghard> zakim, what is the conference code? 13:58:33 <Zakim> the conference code is 53794 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ghard 13:58:36 <Zakim> -??P0 13:58:36 <Zakim> +??P0 13:58:42 <Zakim> +OpenLink_Software 13:58:48 <Zakim> +??P2 13:58:49 <MacTed> Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me 13:58:50 <Zakim> +MacTed; got it 13:58:50 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me 13:58:50 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted 13:58:58 <BartvanLeeuwen> Zakim, ??p2 is me 13:58:58 <Zakim> +BartvanLeeuwen; got it 13:59:02 <Zakim> +gavinc 13:59:04 <dret> zakim, +1.510.206.aaaa is me 13:59:07 <Zakim> +dret; got it 13:59:10 <MacTed> Zakim, who's here? 13:59:10 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P0, dret, MacTed (muted), BartvanLeeuwen, gavinc 13:59:12 <stevebattle> stevebattle has joined #ldp 13:59:14 <Zakim> On IRC I see stevebattle, Zakim, RRSAgent, gavinc, dret, BartvanLeeuwen, svillata, ghard, antonis, MacTed, betehess, AndyS, SteveS, oberger, trackbot, sandro, Yves, ericP 13:59:17 <antonis> Zakim, ??p0 is me 13:59:19 <Zakim> +??P6 13:59:21 <Zakim> +antonis; got it 13:59:31 <Zakim> +sandro 13:59:50 <svillata> Zakim, ??P6 is me 13:59:50 <Zakim> +svillata; got it 14:00:17 <Zakim> +??P10 14:00:18 <Kalpa> Kalpa has joined #ldp 14:00:19 <Zakim> +[IBM] 14:00:22 <AndyS> zakim, ??P10 is me 14:00:22 <Zakim> +AndyS; got it 14:00:36 <SteveS> zakim, [IBM] is me 14:00:36 <Zakim> +SteveS; got it 14:00:53 <Zakim> + +44.117.370.aabb 14:00:57 <Zakim> +RezaBfar 14:01:04 <Ashok_Malhotra> Ashok_Malhotra has joined #ldp 14:01:07 <Arnaud> Arnaud has joined #ldp 14:01:27 <Zakim> - +44.117.370.aabb 14:01:44 <Zakim> +Arnaud 14:01:57 <RezaBFar> RezaBFar has joined #ldp 14:02:00 <Zakim> + +1.937.775.aacc 14:02:11 <Zakim> +Ashok_Malhotra 14:02:14 <jkopecky> jkopecky has joined #ldp 14:02:24 <Zakim> + +44.117.370.aadd 14:02:36 <Kalpa> zakim, aacc is me 14:02:36 <Zakim> +Kalpa; got it 14:02:41 <Zakim> +??P24 14:02:51 <ghard> zakim, ??P24 is ghard 14:02:51 <Zakim> +ghard; got it 14:03:46 <Zakim> +??P27 14:03:58 <jkopecky> zakim, ??P27 is me 14:03:58 <Zakim> +jkopecky; got it 14:04:42 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone? 14:04:42 <Zakim> On the phone I see antonis, dret, MacTed (muted), BartvanLeeuwen, gavinc, svillata, sandro, AndyS, SteveS, RezaBfar, Arnaud, Kalpa, Ashok_Malhotra, +44.117.370.aadd, ghard, 14:04:46 <Zakim> ... jkopecky 14:05:16 <stevebattle> +44.117.370 is me 14:05:22 <MacTed> Zakim, aadd is stevebattle 14:05:22 <Zakim> +stevebattle; got it 14:06:53 <dret> http://www.w3.org/2008/04/scribe.html 14:08:04 <Zakim> + +1.778.588.aaee 14:08:16 <Zakim> + +1.512.433.aaff 14:09:14 <antonis> scribe: antonis 14:09:34 <Ashok_Malhotra> scribenick: antonis 14:09:50 <sandro> zakim, aaee is Lucas 14:09:50 <Zakim> +Lucas; got it 14:10:11 <sandro> zakim, aaff is Arthur 14:10:11 <Zakim> +Arthur; got it 14:10:47 <sandro> zakim, Arthur is Arthur_Keen 14:10:47 <Zakim> +Arthur_Keen; got it 14:11:10 <antonis> list of editors for use cases and requirements 14:11:29 <antonis> steve battle 14:12:04 <sandro> zakim, Lucas is Lucas_Panjer 14:12:04 <Zakim> +Lucas_Panjer; got it 14:12:30 <stevebattle> thankyou 14:13:16 <antonis> minutes from http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/meeting/2012-08-06 approved 14:13:34 <antonis> wiki page for f2f meeting set up 14:13:45 <Ashok_Malhotra> s/minutes/RESOLUTION:minutes/ 14:14:06 <sandro> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/wiki/F2F1 14:14:26 <antonis> close action-8 14:14:26 <trackbot> ACTION-8 Set up wiki page for the F2F meeting closed 14:14:29 <antonis> :) 14:15:53 <LucasPanjer> LucasPanjer has joined #ldp 14:16:19 <antonis> at this point a parallel F2F in the US is not going to happen due to lack of interest 14:18:20 <antonis> particapants in the f2f need to register with TPAC 14:18:34 <antonis> http://www.w3.org/2012/10/TPAC/ 14:20:47 <oberger> in case, there seems to be some interest from the WebID community group to meet participants of LDP 14:20:59 <oberger> some are participating to both, of course 14:21:18 <oberger> I meant, F2F in Lyon 14:21:32 <gavinc> -1 to meeting on labor day 14:21:35 <antonis> +1 for next monday 14:21:39 <stevebattle> August 27 is a bank holiday in the UK 14:21:46 <SteveS> -1 for labor day 14:21:52 <SteveS> +1 for Aug 27 14:22:01 <Ashok_Malhotra> Suggest next meeting Sept 10 14:22:01 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1 next monday ( might not make it ) 14:22:36 <ghard> no preference 14:22:41 <MacTed> -1 Labor Day 14:22:41 <MacTed> +0 Aug 27 (I expect lower attendance putting a meeting now where we explicitly said none would be) 14:22:45 <svillata> no preference 14:22:45 <Zakim> -Lucas_Panjer 14:23:08 <MacTed> +1 pick up on Sept 10 14:23:14 <stevebattle> +1 uk 14:23:20 <AndyS> UK 14:24:12 <AndyS> Aug 27 is OK by me - it's a sensible time UK. 14:24:21 <RezaBFar> -1 for labor day 14:24:53 <AndyS> ... if there is a substantive issue to discuss. AndyS at risk next week ... depends on the weather. 14:26:28 <Zakim> +ericP 14:26:37 <antonis> Use Cases and Requierements need work to become more coherent, consistent and on higher level so that we can track what we are doing wrt the document 14:26:53 <MacTed> Zakim, mute ericP 14:26:53 <Zakim> ericP should now be muted 14:27:10 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute ericP 14:27:10 <Zakim> ericP should no longer be muted 14:27:40 <stevebattle> q+ 14:27:51 <Ashok_Malhotra> q+ 14:27:59 <gavinc> +q to check if http://www.w3.org/Submission/2012/SUBM-ldbp-20120326/ is still the input document? 14:30:04 <sandro> +1 stevebattle to discussing first if he feels like it 14:30:05 <gavinc> -q 14:30:37 <Arnaud> ack stevebattle 14:32:56 <stevebattle> Thanks for the feedback, Sandro 14:32:58 <stevebattle> q- 14:33:22 <SteveS> bblish (Henry Story) has ACTION-5 to propose non-rdf content additions to use cases 14:34:32 <MacTed> q+ 14:34:43 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me 14:34:43 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted 14:34:45 <sandro> "This group is based on the idea of combining two Web-related concepts ... RDF ... and ... RESTful APIs". Hard to see how that involved leaving out RDF. 14:35:00 <sandro> (first sentence in the document.) 14:35:08 <stevebattle> Do I have a declared action item to propose use-cases updates? 14:35:11 <ericP> +1 to at least one RDF serialization 14:35:15 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy? 14:35:26 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: MacTed (44%), Arnaud (83%), Ashok_Malhotra (20%) 14:37:00 <ericP> q? 14:37:56 <Ashok_Malhotra> ack next 14:38:20 <sandro> zakim, mute ericP 14:38:20 <Zakim> ericP should now be muted 14:38:53 <ghard> +1 LD != RDF 14:39:18 <ericP> q+ 14:39:34 <sandro> zakim, unmute ericP 14:39:34 <Zakim> ericP should no longer be muted 14:39:38 <sandro> zakim, who is talking? 14:39:39 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me 14:39:39 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted 14:39:39 <dret> liking that interpretation of LD 14:39:42 <MacTed> ack me 14:39:45 <MacTed> Zakim, mute me 14:39:45 <Zakim> MacTed should now be muted 14:39:48 <Zakim> sandro, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: MacTed (5%), Arnaud (34%), Ashok_Malhotra (48%), jkopecky (5%), ericP (16%) 14:39:49 <SteveS> q+ 14:40:02 <Ashok_Malhotra> +1 to Ted 14:40:14 <AndyS> The key must be universal ... = URIs. 14:41:04 <MacTed> Zakim, who's noisy? 14:41:14 <jkopecky> zakim, mute me 14:41:14 <Zakim> jkopecky should now be muted 14:41:17 <Zakim> MacTed, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Ashok_Malhotra (81%), jkopecky (5%), ericP (65%) 14:41:35 <Ashok_Malhotra> zakim, mute me 14:41:35 <Zakim> Ashok_Malhotra should now be muted 14:41:44 <sandro> q? 14:41:48 <sandro> q- ericP 14:41:53 <sandro> q+ 14:43:15 <gavinc> ack SteveS 14:43:45 <ArthurK> ArthurK has joined #ldp 14:43:48 <Zakim> -ericP 14:43:52 <MacTed> Zakim, unmute me 14:43:52 <Zakim> MacTed should no longer be muted 14:43:53 <MacTed> q+ 14:44:06 <gavinc> sandro: quoting from charter "What is the minimum set of RDF datatypes that must be supported by clients and servers?" 14:44:19 <gavinc> sandro: quoting from charter "Which RDF serialization syntax (eg Turtle or JSON-LD) must be supported by clients and servers?" 14:44:58 <Arnaud> ack sandro 14:45:40 <RezaBFar> The proposal I had put forth 2 weeks ago was not to just create a separation between Model and Serialization the way other examples, for e.g. OMG or Prov did. I was not saying that we exclude RDF, but this kind of thing would allow for accommodating non-RDF stuff later. But, as Arnaud pointed, it didn't seem to get much response from the group. 14:45:51 <ArthurK> ArthurK has joined #ldp 14:45:54 <Arnaud> ack MacTed 14:46:06 <sandro> q+ 14:46:22 <gavinc> +q to ask if there are other standards in Linked Data ... are we talking about Atom? 14:47:04 <Zakim> -Ashok_Malhotra 14:47:47 <sandro> "Which RDF serialization syntax (eg Turtle or JSON-LD)" 14:48:17 <ArthurK> Zakim, who is here? 14:48:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see antonis, dret, MacTed, BartvanLeeuwen, gavinc, svillata, sandro, AndyS, SteveS, RezaBfar, Arnaud, Kalpa, stevebattle, ghard, jkopecky (muted), Arthur_Keen 14:48:20 <Zakim> On IRC I see ArthurK, LucasPanjer, jkopecky, RezaBFar, Arnaud, Ashok_Malhotra, Kalpa, stevebattle, Zakim, RRSAgent, gavinc, dret, BartvanLeeuwen, svillata, ghard, antonis, MacTed, 14:48:20 <Zakim> ... betehess, AndyS, SteveS, oberger, trackbot, sandro, Yves, ericP 14:48:28 <dret> maybe people should start *always* saying "RDF model" or "RDF syntax", just to avoid confusions from now on. 14:48:51 <Arnaud> q? 14:48:53 <sandro> except there is no RDF syntax, but, yes, point taken. 14:48:55 <sandro> q- 14:48:59 <sandro> ack gavinc 14:48:59 <Zakim> gavinc, you wanted to ask if there are other standards in Linked Data ... are we talking about Atom? 14:49:38 <dret> ok, correcting that to say "some RDF sytax, whatever one you may prefer" 14:49:48 <dret> q+ 14:49:50 <oberger> RDF+XML isn't hard to say 14:50:06 <sandro> gavin: What experience is there with linked data OTHER than RDF? 14:50:28 <sandro> dret: What about the Web? Isn't that linked data? 14:50:40 <AndyS> Where can we start? Are there links other than URIs? 14:50:59 <sandro> gavin: Are we talking about extracting from HTML? CSV? 14:51:18 <sandro> dret: To call anything that you're doing REST, it has to be linked. How you represent your data is up to you. 14:51:36 <MacTed> CSV = file format, MIME type, a serialization... 14:51:36 <MacTed> says nothing about whether the data within that CSV is linked (intra- or inter- or extra-) or not 14:51:50 <sandro> dret: json or xml 14:52:21 <sandro> gavin: So, in that case, what would there be to standardize in "linked data" beyond just "rest" (as you're talking about it). 14:53:04 <sandro> dret: Our job would be to define th glue between those established restful patterns, and those doing RDF linked data, and wanting to expose that to a larger group of people -- wanting to expose that in a way that is consistent and can be reused, supported by software and frameworks. 14:53:54 <sandro> dret: RDF does not have a model of collections built in, so here is a way to support that. So, the idea here is to bridge those gaps. How do RDF folks expose certain concepts to the broader world. 14:54:47 <bblfish> bblfish has joined #ldp 14:59:08 <antonis> arnaud: our default approach should be to deliver what is set in the charter and that is RDF. The idea of non-RDF linked data is interesting, but may be too big a problem to tackle 15:00:02 <RezaBFar> Sandro - do you think that's feasible or not? You were involved in Prov I believe at some point. I don't necessarily want to drag this out beyond a simple proposal of separation since a religious discussion is not productive. 15:00:06 <Zakim> -Arthur_Keen 15:00:16 <dret> arnaud: maybe layers (non-RDF and specifically RDF ) could be an option, but that could be hard to do 15:00:30 <Arnaud> q? 15:00:32 <RezaBFar> @Sandro - to be more specific, do you think separation of model and serialization is feasible or should we drop it? 15:00:37 <bblfish> bblfish has joined #ldp 15:00:38 <sandro> RezaBFar, I don't know if it's possible, but I'm pretty sure it's a lot more work. 15:00:55 <sandro> I'm a big fan or running, interoperable code. 15:01:03 <sandro> I'm a big fan of running, interoperable code. 15:01:14 <Arnaud> ack dret 15:01:48 <RezaBFar> Ok. 15:02:13 <stevebattle> q+ 15:03:27 <antonis> next meeting: 27th Aug 15:03:28 <stevebattle> q- 15:03:36 <sandro> sandro has changed the topic to: next LDP meeting 27-August-2012 15:03:47 <dret> no meeting on labor day, then. 15:04:47 <Arnaud> action: stevebattle to propose a new structure for the Use Cases and Requirements document 15:04:47 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - stevebattle 15:05:09 <stevebattle> thanks 15:05:10 <ghard> Cheers 15:05:12 <antonis> bye 15:05:12 <dret> thanks everybody! 15:05:13 <BartvanLeeuwen> thank bye 15:05:15 <Zakim> -RezaBfar 15:05:16 <Zakim> -dret 15:05:18 <Zakim> -Arnaud 15:05:19 <gavinc> ACTION: Steve to propose a new structure for the Use Cases and Requirements document 15:05:19 <trackbot> Sorry, amibiguous username (more than one match) - Steve 15:05:19 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. sspeiche, sbattle2) 15:05:20 <Zakim> -SteveS 15:05:22 <Zakim> -antonis 15:05:23 <Zakim> -svillata 15:05:23 <Zakim> -ghard 15:05:26 <Zakim> -AndyS 15:05:28 <gavinc> ACTION: sbattle2 to propose a new structure for the Use Cases and Requirements document 15:05:28 <Zakim> -stevebattle 15:05:28 <trackbot> Created ACTION-9 - Propose a new structure for the Use Cases and Requirements document [on Steve Battle - due 2012-08-27]. 15:05:30 <Zakim> -jkopecky 15:05:32 <Zakim> -BartvanLeeuwen 15:05:33 <Zakim> -Kalpa 15:05:35 <antonis> antonis has left #ldp 15:05:36 <Zakim> -sandro 15:05:38 <Zakim> -gavinc 15:05:40 <Zakim> -MacTed 15:05:42 <Zakim> SW_LDP()10:00AM has ended 15:05:42 <Zakim> Attendees were MacTed, BartvanLeeuwen, gavinc, dret, antonis, sandro, svillata, AndyS, SteveS, +44.117.370.aabb, RezaBfar, Arnaud, +1.937.775.aacc, Ashok_Malhotra, 15:05:42 <Zakim> ... +44.117.370.aadd, Kalpa, ghard, jkopecky, stevebattle, +1.778.588.aaee, +1.512.433.aaff, Arthur_Keen, Lucas_Panjer, ericP 15:05:58 <Kalpa> Kalpa has left #ldp 15:06:04 <Arnaud> oops, we now have the same action entered three times? 15:06:15 <dret> maybe we could make the date for ACTION-9 on friday, so that people can review the proposal before the meeting? 15:06:37 <sandro> Arnaud, ignore what RRSAgent said about ACTIONS. It's only what trackbot says that's remembered. 15:06:56 <Arnaud> ah, ok 15:06:58 <Arnaud> thanks 15:07:18 <Arnaud> I think dret's suggestion is good 15:07:39 <MacTed> action-9? 15:07:39 <trackbot> ACTION-9 -- Steve Battle to propose a new structure for the Use Cases and Requirements document -- due 2012-08-27 -- OPEN 15:07:39 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/ldp/track/actions/9 15:08:09 <MacTed> there's an edit link on that page (lower right) so you can change date or whatever appropriate 15:11:49 <stevebattle> stevebattle has joined #ldp 16:58:30 <bblfish> bblfish has joined #ldp 17:20:13 <bblfish> bblfish has joined #ldp 17:21:34 <Zakim> Zakim has left #ldp # SPECIAL MARKER FOR CHATSYNC. DO NOT EDIT THIS LINE OR BELOW. SRCLINESUSED=00000270