14:52:12 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
14:52:12 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/12/21-wcag2ict-irc
14:52:14 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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14:52:16 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2428
14:52:16 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM scheduled to start in 8 minutes
14:52:17 <trackbot> Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
14:52:17 <trackbot> Date: 21 December 2012
14:54:50 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has now started
14:54:56 <Zakim> +Gregg_Vanderheiden
14:56:08 <Zakim> +Andi_Snow_Weaver
15:00:29 <janina> janina has joined #wcag2ict
15:00:34 <Zakim> +??P4
15:01:51 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
15:02:16 <Mike_P> Mike_P has joined #wcag2ict
15:03:00 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:03:01 <Zakim> +Peter_Korn
15:03:22 <andisnow> zakim, IPcaller is Mike_Pluke
15:03:22 <Zakim> +Mike_Pluke; got it
15:03:25 <korn> korn has joined #wcag2ict
15:03:50 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
15:04:00 <andisnow> zakim, Microsoft has Alex_Li
15:04:00 <Zakim> +Alex_Li; got it
15:04:29 <andisnow> regrets: Mary_Jo_Mueller, Bruce_Bailey, Judy_Brewer
15:04:31 <alex_> alex_ has joined #wcag2ict
15:04:42 <andisnow> chair: Andi_Snow-Weaver
15:05:29 <David> David has joined #wcag2ict
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15:05:47 <andisnow> scribe: Andi_Snow-Weaver
15:05:51 <andisnow> scribenick: andisnow
15:06:02 <andisnow> topic: Survey on proposals to address public comments: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/dec212012/results
15:06:30 <andisnow> topic: LC-2689
15:07:39 <andisnow> q+
15:08:43 <andisnow> q-
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15:09:52 <greggvanderheiden> We also have not yet had time to examine command line interfaces for any possible issues.
15:10:03 <andisnow> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/dec212012/results
15:10:53 <Zakim> + +1.608.514.aaaa
15:10:54 <Zakim> -Gregg_Vanderheiden
15:11:13 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Accept LC-2689 as amended
15:12:56 <Mike_P> +1 for Gregg's idea
15:13:26 <andisnow> topic: LC-2700
15:13:43 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Accept LC-2700 as amended.
15:13:58 <korn1> I'm here Andi.
15:14:05 <korn1> I'm shifting from phone to desktop
15:14:45 <andisnow> topic: LC-2691
15:15:23 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Accept LC-2691 as amended.
15:15:47 <Zakim> +[Oracle]
15:15:55 <Zakim> -Peter_Korn
15:16:11 <korn1> Zakim, Oracle has Peter_Korn
15:16:12 <Zakim> +Peter_Korn; got it
15:16:12 <korn1> q+
15:19:03 <andisnow> action: Mike to raise topic at end of project on issues to send to WCAG (such as keyboard)
15:19:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-87 - Raise topic at end of project on issues to send to WCAG (such as keyboard) [on Mike Pluke - due 2012-12-28].
15:19:26 <korn1> q-
15:19:48 <andisnow> topic: LC-2677
15:21:55 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Accept LC-2677 as amended.
15:24:30 <andisnow> topic: LC-2680
15:26:14 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Accept LC-2680 as amended.
15:29:15 <andisnow> action: Alex to propose modification to WCAG intent for 3.3.4 to address concern with certain types of financial transactions
15:29:15 <trackbot> Created ACTION-88 - Propose modification to WCAG intent for 3.3.4 to address concern with certain types of financial transactions [on Alex Li - due 2012-12-28].
15:29:59 <andisnow> q?
15:30:30 <andisnow> topic: LC-2693
15:31:18 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Accept LC-2693 as proposed
15:32:02 <andisnow> topic: LC-2694
15:32:57 <greggvanderheiden> You are suggesting a normative change which the task force is not allowed to do.   WCAG 2.0 is a released standard and we are not empowered to change WCAG.  Barring a change to WCAG, we are not able to create different success criteria for ICT.   Per our work statement, we can only provide guidance on applying WCAG 2.0 to non-web ICT.
15:32:58 <greggvanderheiden> As to a note- notes are informative only and cannot extend or limit the coverage of a success criterion.
15:32:59 <greggvanderheiden> As to your specific example,  the issue you raise is not constrained to ICT but would apply (or not apply) equally to web content.  As such, we suggest that you submit your comment to the WCAG WG so that it can be handled there - where it would apply if needed to both web and non-web content.
15:34:44 <andisnow> action: Alex to modification to WCAG intent for 3.3.2 to address concern with automatic changes of context
15:34:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-89 - Modification to WCAG intent for 3.3.2 to address concern with automatic changes of context [on Alex Li - due 2012-12-28].
15:35:05 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Accept LC-2694 as amended.
15:39:46 <andisnow> topic: LC-2669
15:42:21 <korn1> Navigating content by paragraph, section, etc., is done by the user agent (including AT).  WCAG doesn't speak to that sort of navigation - it only addresses navigation mechanisms explicitly put into the page(s) by the author of those page(s).
15:44:04 <korn1> Certainly users navigation documents via a variety of mechanisns besides via following links.  Navigating content by paragraph...
15:44:34 <greggvanderheiden> ç
15:44:42 <greggvanderheiden> We agree that users navigate documents in many ways besides links.  However, navigating content by paragraph, section, etc., is done by the user agent (including AT).  WCAG doesn't speak to that sort of navigation - it only addresses navigation mechanisms explicitly put into the page(s) by the author of those page(s).
15:48:58 <korn1> ... As we note in the introduction of the second public draft, ~"WCAG by itself may not be sufficient for non-web ICT."
15:49:23 <korn1> "...this document is not sufficient by itself to ensure accessibility in non-Web documents and software"
15:49:50 <greggvanderheiden> WCAG does say that things that look like headings and paragraphs should be done so that AT etc can recognize them as such (SC 1.3.1).  This would allow the navigation by user agents or AT.
15:52:07 <greggvanderheiden> Other success criteria such as 1.3.1 and 2.4.6
15:52:43 <korn1> Note that other success criteria - SC 1.3.1, SC 2.4.6 - speak to the need for structure, headings, etc.  User agents in non-web ICT may utilize this information to provide means for navigating.
15:53:40 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Accept LC-2669 as amended.
15:54:15 <andisnow> topic: LC-2678
15:55:24 <andisnow> action: Peter to propose a note to 2.4.3 to address comment in LC-2678 - recorded in WG Note section of the comment
15:55:25 <trackbot> Created ACTION-90 - Propose a note to 2.4.3 to address comment in LC-2678 - recorded in WG Note section of the comment [on Peter Korn - due 2012-12-28].
15:56:04 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Accept LC2678 as proposed.
16:00:22 <Zakim> -Mike_Pluke
16:01:03 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:02:11 <Zakim> +Peter_Korn
16:02:12 <Zakim> -Peter_Korn
16:02:21 <greggvanderheiden> As we stated in response to your previous comment [ref 2669] users navigate documents in many ways besides links.  However, navigating content by paragraph, section, etc., is done by the user agent (including AT).  WCAG doesn't speak to that sort of navigation - it only addresses navigation mechanisms explicitly put into the page(s) by the author of those page(s).
16:02:22 <greggvanderheiden> Note that other success criteria - SC 1.3.1, SC 2.4.6 - speak to the need for structure, headings, etc.  User agents in non-web ICT may utilize this information to provide means for navigating.
16:02:23 <greggvanderheiden> See the new language in the latest draft WCAG2ICT.   It does not rely on the concept of link but does use it where it exists.
16:02:26 <Zakim> +Peter_Korn
16:02:35 <Zakim> -??P4
16:02:37 <Zakim> -[Oracle]
16:02:44 <janina> janina has left #wcag2ict
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16:03:49 <andisnow> topic: LC-2679
16:04:08 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Accept LC-2679 as amended.
16:06:30 <greggvanderheiden> <   combine with 2669 and 2679  and make into one response >
16:06:34 <andisnow> topic: LC-2681
16:06:56 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Accept LC-2681 as amended
16:07:22 <andisnow> topic: LC-2688
16:07:34 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Accept LC-2688 as proposed.
16:07:48 <andisnow> topic: LC-2695
16:07:58 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Accept LC-2695 as proposed.
16:11:50 <andisnow> topic: LC-2676
16:17:33 <andisnow> action: Peter to re-write response to LC-2676 and we will re-survey
16:17:33 <trackbot> Created ACTION-91 - Re-write response to LC-2676 and we will re-survey [on Peter Korn - due 2012-12-28].
16:19:44 <andisnow> topic: LC-2686 and LC-2701
16:19:55 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Accept LC-2686 and LC-2701 as proposeod
16:20:12 <andisnow> s/proposeod/proposed/
16:24:50 <Mike_P> q+
16:25:26 <andisnow> ack mike
16:27:20 <andisnow> "Because WCAG 2.0 was developed for the Web, addressing accessibility for non-Web documents and software may involve provisions beyond those included in this document. Authors and developers are encouraged to seek relevant advice about current best practices to ensure that non-Web documents and software are accessible, as far as possible, to people with disabilities."
16:32:06 <andisnow> topic: LC-2666
16:32:16 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Accept LC-2666 as amended.
16:34:39 <andisnow> topic: LC-2658
16:34:51 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Accept LC-2658 as amended.
16:37:22 <andisnow> topic: LC-2698
16:40:11 <andisnow> RESOLUTION: Accept LC-2698 as amended.
16:40:31 <Zakim> - +1.608.514.aaaa
16:41:04 <greggvanderheiden> I'm dead
16:41:13 <greggvanderheiden> but that was just a suggestion to send out what we have
16:41:25 <greggvanderheiden> but I am OK waiting -- its just a courtesy
16:43:08 <Zakim> -Peter_Korn
16:43:11 <Zakim> -Andi_Snow_Weaver
16:43:12 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
16:43:14 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
16:43:16 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
16:43:18 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has ended
16:43:18 <Zakim> Attendees were Gregg_Vanderheiden, Andi_Snow_Weaver, David_MacDonald, Peter_Korn, Mike_Pluke, Alex_Li, +1.608.514.aaaa, [IPcaller]
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16:43:50 <andisnow> zakim, bye
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16:43:55 <andisnow> rrsagent, make minutes
16:43:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/21-wcag2ict-minutes.html andisnow
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16:59:24 <andisnow> s/I'm dead//
16:59:36 <andisnow> s/but that was just a suggestion to send out what we have//
16:59:50 <andisnow> s/but I am OK waiting -- its just a courtesy//
17:00:35 <andisnow> rrsagent, make minutes
17:00:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/21-wcag2ict-minutes.html andisnow
17:09:06 <andisnow> regrets+ Loic_Martinez_Normand
17:09:11 <andisnow> rrsagent, make minutes
17:09:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/21-wcag2ict-minutes.html andisnow
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