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15:42:26 <fsasaki> meeting: MLW-LT WG
15:42:28 <fsasaki> chair: felix
15:42:44 <fsasaki> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0075.html
15:43:26 <fsasaki> regrets: jörg, Mārcis
15:43:29 <fsasaki> topic: roll call
15:43:37 <fsasaki> checking attendance ...
15:43:38 <fsasaki> regrets+ davidF
15:43:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
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15:50:32 <Arle> present+ Arle
15:53:30 <fsasaki> present+ felix
15:53:37 <fsasaki> present+ kfritsche
15:53:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
15:54:27 <fsasaki> present+ ankit
15:54:32 <fsasaki> present+ georgios
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15:55:52 <fsasaki> present+ DomJones1
15:56:04 <fsasaki> present+ daveL
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15:56:31 <DomJones1> Can someone share the GoTo invite?
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15:56:55 <DomJones1> Found them
15:57:00 <DomJones1> Thanks :)
15:57:46 <fsasaki> present+ olaf-michael
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15:57:57 <fsasaki> present+ naoto
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15:58:05 <fsasaki> present+ shaun
15:58:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
15:58:47 <fsasaki> present+ leroy
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15:59:14 <fsasaki> present+ yves
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16:00:14 <fsasaki> scribe: daveL
16:00:15 <daveL> scribe: daveL
16:00:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
16:00:59 <fsasaki> present+ mauricio
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16:01:10 <fsasaki> present+ clemens
16:01:32 <mdelolmo> present+ mdelolmo
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16:01:49 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0075.html
16:02:14 <fsasaki> topic: Test suite and milestone update
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16:02:24 <philr> present +philr
16:02:48 <fsasaki> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgIk0-aoSKOadG5HQmJDT2EybWVvVC1VbnF5alN2S3c#gid=0
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16:03:10 <daveL> felix: today was deadline for test milestone M2, to have each partners attempted at least one of each type of feature test they are planning
16:03:27 <DomJones1> q
16:04:07 <daveL> ... thanks for everyone on working to progress in advancing to the test suite
16:04:24 <daveL> dom: show screen with progress spread sheet
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16:05:10 <pnietoca> present+ pnietoca
16:05:14 <daveL> ... reviews status, noting there are some short delays which have been agreed
16:05:33 <Milan> present+ Milan
16:06:24 <daveL> ... des and tidle have delays and need a revised M2 date to be agreed with co-chairs
16:06:27 <Fredrik> Fredrik has joined #mlw-lt
16:07:15 <daveL> .. ruby being done in TCD, seems OK
16:07:42 <daveL> .. milan has delay, tadej has a delay
16:08:16 <Des> Des has joined #mlw-lt
16:08:25 <daveL> .. need to discuss local filter with DCU
16:08:29 <Des> present+ Des
16:08:37 <daveL> .. prov test is still shakey, leroy is checking
16:08:57 <daveL> .. logrus with locqualissue need to be resolved
16:09:14 <daveL> .. mt confidence OK
16:09:37 <daveL> .. cocomore need to complete allowed char
16:10:10 <daveL> Dom: overall happy that progress is good, but need to communicate with outstanding tests tomorrow.
16:10:23 <daveL> Felix; agree, keep cochair posted
16:11:02 <daveL> Dom: highlighted that the complete test deadline in end Jan, so really not far off
16:11:29 <daveL> felix: we should allocate plenty of time at prague meeting for test suite
16:12:00 <Pedro> Pedro has joined #mlw-lt
16:12:06 <daveL> dom: also note at march EU review we should have 80% conformance in actual implementations
16:12:33 <daveL> felix: as yves pointed out, should have some way of comparing results on web site
16:12:52 <pnietoca> sorry my microphone is not not working again, I'll try to use Mauricio's
16:14:21 <daveL> dom: for M2 and M3 we need people to perform their own check, but we will need to put up all the outputs and do authoritative, verifiable test
16:14:43 <daveL> felix: online test would be really good
16:14:59 <daveL> leroy; we can provide online test
16:15:20 <daveL> dom: so we will deliver in new year
16:16:21 <daveL> action: leroy to provide online diff service so posted output can be checked
16:16:21 <trackbot> Created ACTION-373 - Provide online diff service so posted output can be checked [on Leroy Finn - due 2012-12-24].
16:16:52 <daveL> Dom: Dom and Leroy will be unavailable for two weeks over chirstmas
16:17:28 <DomJones1> Dom and Leroy away from 22nd December to the 7th of January
16:18:16 <fsasaki> topic: Yves' proposal to compile test results
16:18:23 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-tests/2012Dec/0097.html
16:18:27 <pnietoca> No nothing Felix, thanks
16:19:25 <daveL> yves: idea is that final test page was generated automatically for ITS1.0, so that would be good for 2.0
16:19:31 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/its/tests/
16:19:37 <daveL> ... i will look at this over holidays
16:21:11 <daveL> dom: does this just diff the input and output?
16:21:34 <daveL> felix; yes it just compared files and provide a green flag if it works
16:22:51 <daveL> ... so this could be done with the diff service mentioned earlier as a batch over all current test input files and submitted output files
16:23:07 <fsasaki> topic: Need to clarify domain handling of dublicates
16:23:10 <daveL> Dom; we will look at this as part of last action itme
16:23:13 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-tests/2012Dec/0128.html
16:24:16 <daveL> yves: during testing looked at wider coverage of domain test, with different capitalisations
16:24:37 <daveL> ... should these be different tests?
16:25:44 <daveL> mdelolmo: not sure this makes a difference in terms of use cases, but no problem having duplicate files
16:26:10 <daveL> yves: resolution to keep tests with and without capitalisation
16:26:36 <daveL> yves: there are these test cases, and some others missing from coverage.
16:26:50 <daveL> ... should we just let Leroy know?
16:27:21 <daveL> Leroy: just let me know once the test input is done, and i will update the parser
16:27:30 <fsasaki> scribe: fsasaki
16:27:44 <fsasaki> daveL: are we still missing test cases with the MUST statements?
16:27:53 <fsasaki> scribe: daveL
16:27:59 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Ownership_of_rfc2119_statements
16:29:08 <daveL> felix: many of these tests still need to be added, e.g. with annotation and locqualissue
16:29:27 <daveL> ... so we definitely need these tests
16:30:12 <daveL> ... and people need to make sure they allocate implementer time for these in Jan and feb
16:30:55 <daveL> phil: has a look at locqulissue one, and found useful doc on tests for MUSTs
16:31:14 <daveL> ... but it was difficult to see how manual tests could be formulates
16:32:06 <daveL> action; felix to distribute action items to define these tests and to provide guideance of how to formulate these tests against rcf2119 table
16:32:19 <daveL> action: felix to distribute action items to define these tests and to provide guideance of how to formulate these tests against rcf2119 table
16:32:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-374 - Distribute action items to define these tests and to provide guideance of how to formulate these tests against rcf2119 table [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-24].
16:32:28 <fsasaki> topic:  Contacts for LC
16:32:34 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0071.html
16:32:42 <leroy> present+ leroy
16:33:03 <daveL> felix: thanks for finding people to contact
16:33:14 <daveL> ... but we won't share lists since some contacts are confidential
16:33:22 <Pedro> present+ Pedro
16:33:39 <daveL> ... asks Yves to handle LC reviews to OKAPI community
16:33:53 <daveL> Yves: agrees
16:34:25 <daveL> Felix: asloXTM
16:34:49 <daveL> dave: I will handle this with andy zydron
16:35:13 <daveL> felix; will des lead contact with systrans
16:35:20 <daveL> des: agrees
16:36:03 <daveL> felix: please let neives know if you receive specific committments to review
16:36:13 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0025.html
16:36:23 <daveL> des: is there a proforma for requesting
16:36:54 <daveL> felix: posts proforma, and arle did some also.
16:37:16 <daveL> ... david was doing a more business oriented one, but is off ill
16:37:41 <daveL> pedro: will nieves contact people directly?
16:38:21 <daveL> felix; nieves will NOT contact there people, only tracking who we are contacting
16:39:01 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0025.html
16:39:04 <daveL> ... the best if people contact them directly.
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16:39:55 <daveL> felix: I'm happy to contact the specific people whose details pedro provided
16:40:22 <daveL> pedro: had contacted them already, but they just need the details of how to submit
16:40:45 <daveL> felix: the email pasted above, has details of email address where to send comments
16:41:17 <fsasaki> topic: Last call issues
16:41:35 <fsasaki> http://tinyurl.com/its20-comments-handling
16:41:50 <daveL> felix: these issues raised already by people within the WG
16:42:23 <daveL> ... issue-58, an example to be fixed in a version value
16:42:56 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0060.html
16:43:03 <daveL> ... issues-59, a sentence about pointing and adding, resolved by clarifying a sentence circumstance when it is mutually exclusive
16:43:23 <daveL> ... in two section as per above emial
16:43:32 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2012Dec/0022.html
16:44:02 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2012Dec/0031.html
16:44:09 <daveL> ... issue-60 loc qual type, with resolution as per above email  -which didn't require new type
16:44:53 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#lqissue-typevalues >
16:45:00 <daveL> ... jorg followed up with clarification for labelling of the type value table
16:45:15 <daveL> ... which is now changed.
16:45:49 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2012Dec/0025.html
16:45:58 <daveL> felix: issue-62 standoff markup for global rules
16:46:36 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2012Dec/att-0025/global-lqissue-clarification.pdf
16:46:48 <fsasaki> http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/#lqissue-implementation
16:47:06 <daveL> ... could use standoff and global attributes, which doesn't make sense since this isn't the case for local
16:47:35 <daveL> ... this has now been changed in the schema, though it didn't need a change to the examples
16:47:57 <daveL> felix: any further question on these, or can they be closed?
16:48:14 <fsasaki> 58, 59, 60, 62
16:48:32 <daveL> No objections
16:48:56 <daveL> felix: issue-63 on loc qual type conformance
16:49:05 <fsasaki> topic: issue-63
16:49:06 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2012Dec/0030.html
16:50:27 <daveL> phil: on this, in cngl we worked on some automated linguistic target qa, based on comparison to reference corpus
16:50:58 <daveL> ... so it is different to the distinct techniques for specific errors as per other types
16:51:45 <daveL> ... conformance is a term that gives a numeric value to compare target against a reference corpus
16:52:12 <daveL> ... so it may be useful to have
16:52:27 <daveL> yves: how is this different to loc quality rating?
16:53:26 <daveL> phil: rating is more formulaic way of computing a rating from other issues, whereas the conformance quality is very useful at segment level
16:53:53 <daveL> yves: where would the value go, in the severity
16:53:56 <daveL> phil; yes
16:54:18 <daveL> felix: would like to delay the decision unitl after chistma
16:54:48 <daveL> action: felix to raise issue-63 again in the 7th jan call
16:54:48 <trackbot> Created ACTION-375 - Raise issue-63 again in the 7th jan call [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-24].
16:54:59 <fsasaki> topic: best practices and sec. 1-2 update
16:55:14 <fsasaki> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Dec/0072.html
16:55:27 <daveL> felix: discussed this last week
16:55:59 <daveL> ... both how to cover section 1 and 2 and also on best practices
16:56:37 <daveL> ... are people happy for christian to edit quite freely
16:56:49 <fsasaki> scribe: fsasaki
16:57:04 <fsasaki> daveL: would be happy to know what the time frame the rewriting would be on
16:57:14 <fsasaki> .. david and I wanted to look into this too
16:57:21 <fsasaki> .. need to coordinate things
16:57:49 <daveL> christian: what time frame would fit best.
16:58:01 <fsasaki> daveL: for me after january 15 would be good
16:58:13 <fsasaki> .. if you want to work on it now, and we hand it over
16:59:24 <daveL> action: chriLi to provide rewrite of section 1and 2 by mid Jan
16:59:24 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find chriLi. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/users>.
16:59:57 <daveL> felix: best practice draft and high level use cases
17:00:27 <daveL> .. if anyone want to work on this over christmas, otherwise i will try and pull these together
17:01:10 <daveL> action: felix to pull this material on best practice together onto wiki for people to comment on
17:01:10 <trackbot> Created ACTION-376 - Pull this material on best practice together onto wiki for people to comment on [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-24].
17:01:27 <fsasaki> topic: Prague f2f and next year planning
17:02:16 <daveL> felix: prague face to face planning will be mostly for testing and last minute comments, planning for later in year will be discussed in Rome
17:02:37 <fsasaki> https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/open
17:02:47 <daveL> felix: I wish those leaving now a very Merry Christmas!
17:03:04 <daveL> topic: EU project action items
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17:03:26 <daveL> fleix; arle, who do we still need input from
17:03:59 <daveL> arle: still need to assemble what is still missing
17:04:24 <daveL> felix: we need to compile this by wednesday
17:04:51 <daveL> ... so please everyone check if they are missing some information from actions.
17:05:26 <omstefanov> A Merry Christmas and a "Guten Rutsch" to you, Felix and to the other chairs!
17:05:35 <pnietoca> thank you! Merry Chritsmas to all!
17:05:44 <Jirka> Jirka has left #mlw-lt
17:05:47 <omstefanov> Merry Christmas to all!
17:05:53 <fsasaki> you too, olaf!
17:06:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki
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17:25:50 <fsasaki> isssue-60: RESOLUTION: rejected
17:26:01 <fsasaki> issue-60: RESOLUTION: rejected
17:26:01 <trackbot> ISSUE-60 New value for "Values for the Localization Quality Issue Type": "unintelligible" notes added
17:27:18 <fsasaki> issue-60: COMMENTER-RESPONSE: satisfied, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2012Dec/0022.html
17:27:19 <trackbot> ISSUE-60 New value for "Values for the Localization Quality Issue Type": "unintelligible" notes added
17:32:40 <fsasaki> issue-60: CHANGE-TYPE: editorial. Not implementing the request to add a new value to 'localization quality issue type', just clarifiying the definition of an existing type to cover the new use case
17:32:40 <trackbot> ISSUE-60 New value for "Values for the Localization Quality Issue Type": "unintelligible" notes added
17:35:15 <fsasaki> issue-58: discussed in WG http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html
17:35:15 <trackbot> ISSUE-58 example 26 (Accumulation and Overriding of the annotatorsRef Values) notes added
17:35:20 <fsasaki> issue-59: discussed in WG http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-minutes.html
17:35:20 <trackbot> ISSUE-59 Clarify "pointing and adding" sentence notes added
17:36:09 <fsasaki> issue-62: RESOLUTION: accepted
17:36:09 <trackbot> ISSUE-62 description problem for the global rules for localization quality issue notes added
17:36:46 <fsasaki> issue-62: COMMENTOR-RESPONSE: satisfied, see  http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2012Dec/0026.html
17:36:46 <trackbot> ISSUE-62 description problem for the global rules for localization quality issue notes added
17:37:29 <fsasaki> issue-62: CHANGE-TYPE: editorial, see http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-comments/2012Dec/0028.html
17:37:29 <trackbot> ISSUE-62 description problem for the global rules for localization quality issue notes added
17:38:16 <fsasaki> issue-62: COMMENTER-RESPONSE: satisfied
17:38:16 <trackbot> ISSUE-62 description problem for the global rules for localization quality issue notes added
17:39:35 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-actions.rdf :
17:39:35 <RRSAgent> ACTION: leroy to provide online diff service so posted output can be checked [1]
17:39:35 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-irc#T16-16-21
17:39:35 <RRSAgent> ACTION: felix to distribute action items to define these tests and to provide guideance of how to formulate these tests against rcf2119 table [2]
17:39:35 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-irc#T16-32-19
17:39:35 <RRSAgent> ACTION: felix to raise issue-63 again in the 7th jan call [3]
17:39:35 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-irc#T16-54-48
17:39:35 <RRSAgent> ACTION: chriLi to provide rewrite of section 1and 2 by mid Jan [4]
17:39:35 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-irc#T16-59-24
17:39:35 <RRSAgent> ACTION: felix to pull this material on best practice together onto wiki for people to comment on [5]
17:39:35 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/12/17-mlw-lt-irc#T17-01-10
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