15:58:02 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
15:58:02 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/12/13-html-a11y-irc
15:58:04 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:58:04 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-a11y
15:58:06 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
15:58:06 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 58 minutes ago
15:58:07 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:58:07 <trackbot> Date: 13 December 2012
15:58:15 <janina> zakim, who's here?
15:58:15 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has not yet started, janina
15:58:16 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, janina, davidb, chaals, darobin, Stevef, MichaelC_, hober, trackbot
15:58:37 <janina> zakim, this will be 2119
15:58:37 <Zakim> ok, janina; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 58 minutes ago
15:58:48 <janina> zakim, who's here?
15:58:48 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has not yet started, janina
15:58:50 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, janina, davidb, chaals, darobin, Stevef, MichaelC_, hober, trackbot
15:58:57 <janina> zakim, this will be WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)
15:58:57 <Zakim> ok, janina, I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM already started
15:59:00 <janina> zakim, who's here?
15:59:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P5
15:59:01 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, janina, davidb, chaals, darobin, Stevef, MichaelC_, hober, trackbot
15:59:10 <janina> zakim, ??P5 is Janina_Sajka
15:59:12 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
15:59:18 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:59:34 <Stevef> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
15:59:35 <Zakim> +Stevef; got it
16:00:09 <IanPouncey> IanPouncey has joined #html-a11y
16:00:46 <Zakim> +hober
16:00:51 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:01:07 <chaals> zakim, code?
16:01:07 <Zakim> the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), chaals
16:01:15 <IanPouncey> Xakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:01:19 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
16:01:26 <IanPouncey> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
16:01:26 <Zakim> +IanPouncey; got it
16:01:27 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:01:38 <chaals> zakim, [ipcaller.a is probably me
16:01:38 <Zakim> +chaals?; got it
16:01:41 <Zakim> +John_Foliot
16:01:49 <chaals> agenda+ holiday break?
16:01:56 <Stevef> agenda+ Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
16:01:58 <Stevef> agenda+ Using ARIA in HTML http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/aria-unofficial/raw-file/tip/index.html  CFC http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Dec/0075.html
16:01:59 <Stevef> agenda+ Longdesc Extension Update http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-proposals/raw-file/b63325998cc1/longdesc1/longdesc.html
16:02:01 <Stevef> agenda+ Status of "alt" text in HTML (specification and usage in the
16:02:02 <Stevef> document)
16:02:04 <Stevef> agenda+ Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; AAPI Mapping;
16:02:05 <Stevef> agenda+ Other Business
16:02:07 <Stevef> agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
16:02:08 <Zakim> +Judy
16:02:08 <Stevef> agenda+ Identify Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
16:02:10 <Stevef> agenda+ be done
16:02:12 <JF> JF has joined #html-a11y
16:02:15 <plh> plh has joined #html-a11y
16:02:33 <Zakim> +Plh
16:02:33 <chaals> zakim, who is here?
16:02:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see Janina_Sajka, Stevef, hober, IanPouncey, chaals?, [IPcaller], John_Foliot, Judy, Plh (muted)
16:02:35 <Zakim> On IRC I see plh, JF, IanPouncey, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, davidb, chaals, darobin, Stevef, MichaelC_, hober, trackbot
16:03:17 <Zakim> -chaals?
16:03:59 <chaals> chaals has joined #html-a11y
16:04:04 <LjW> LjW has joined #html-a11y
16:04:08 <janina> scribe: janina
16:04:13 <janina> zakim, take up item 1
16:04:13 <Zakim> agendum 1. "holiday break?" taken up [from chaals]
16:04:16 <LjW> zakim, ipcaller isLjW
16:04:17 <Zakim> I don't understand 'ipcaller isLjW', LjW
16:04:17 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
16:04:31 <chaals> zakim, mute me
16:04:31 <chaals> zakim, [ipcaller.a is me
16:04:32 <Zakim> sorry, chaals, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
16:04:32 <Zakim> +chaals; got it
16:04:35 <chaals> zakim, mute me
16:04:35 <Zakim> chaals should now be muted
16:04:55 <Zakim> -Plh
16:06:04 <janina> SF: I'm out after next week until the 7th
16:06:18 <janina> js: Suggest we meet next week and then break until the week of Jan 7
16:06:23 <janina> general agreement
16:06:29 <janina> zakim, take up next item
16:06:29 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List" taken up [from Stevef]
16:06:37 <janina> janina is scribe
16:06:41 <janina> zakim, close this item
16:06:41 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
16:06:42 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:06:42 <Zakim> 3. Using ARIA in HTML http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/aria-unofficial/raw-file/tip/index.html  CFC http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Dec/0075.html [from Stevef]
16:06:44 <janina> zakim, next item
16:06:44 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Using ARIA in HTML http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/aria-unofficial/raw-file/tip/index.html  CFC http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Dec/0075.html" taken up
16:06:47 <Zakim> ... [from Stevef]
16:07:32 <janina> sf: CfC in HTML-WG and also PFWG
16:07:39 <janina> js: No objection in PF
16:07:44 <janina> sf: Seems also none in HTML
16:07:52 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
16:08:02 <janina> SF: I sent CfC to TF as well, were a few minor suggestions and I've tweaked
16:08:26 <janina> sf: If there's any further objection, please advise soon
16:08:35 <janina> [silence]
16:09:00 <IanPouncey> Doesn't like I can be heard on the call - I'd like to help with the document.
16:09:08 <Judy> Judy has joined #html-a11y
16:09:48 <janina> Offer accepted on call ...
16:09:50 <Zakim> -IanPouncey
16:10:12 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
16:10:15 <janina> sf: Any further edit suggestions, please make known by Wednesday next
16:10:17 <janina> zakim, next item
16:10:17 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Longdesc Extension Update http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-proposals/raw-file/b63325998cc1/longdesc1/longdesc.html" taken up [from Stevef]
16:10:32 <IanPouncey> Zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
16:10:32 <Zakim> +IanPouncey; got it
16:11:39 <David> David has joined #html-a11y
16:11:41 <chaals> ack me
16:11:51 <janina> sf: Update?
16:12:17 <janina> cmn: Drafted proposed responses shared with co-facilitators
16:12:32 <janina> cmn: There are short summary responses to such objections as were received
16:12:42 <JF> Q+
16:12:52 <janina> cmn: Overall, most people supported fpwd publication
16:13:32 <janina> cmn: Regret we haven't yet made the summary document available on list, but there's nothing in the summary that hasn't previously been on list
16:13:40 <janina> cmn: It's a summary compilation
16:14:45 <janina> sf: We can send this to the list today
16:14:57 <chaals> s/summary document/proposed resolutions to issues raised/
16:14:58 <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
16:15:54 <janina> ack jf
16:16:40 <janina> zakim, next item
16:16:40 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Status of "alt" text in HTML (specification and usage in the" taken up [from Stevef]
16:17:09 <Judy> agenda?
16:19:24 <janina> szakim, take up next
16:19:31 <janina> zakim, next
16:19:31 <Zakim> I don't understand 'next', janina
16:19:36 <janina> zakim, next item
16:19:36 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; AAPI Mapping;" taken up [from Stevef]
16:19:46 <janina> Bug Traige:
16:20:19 <janina> leonie: We've been busy following up on about 120 bugs with various status conditions we want to confirm
16:20:41 <janina> leonie: We're following up with various people, based on the nature of the bug
16:20:50 <janina> leonie: Plea to everyone to respond, please!
16:22:22 <janina> jb: Want to note that Leonie is being efficient and precise delegating work, and providing email that's easy to follow up on
16:22:33 <janina> cs: Is working on these in January OK?
16:22:48 <janina> leonie: Yes, we're simply following up on remaining issues
16:23:13 <janina> Text Subteam
16:23:22 <Judy> Text Subteam Report: We reconvened this Tuesday 11 Dec to review and to the extent possible process bugs that Leonie tossed over to us.
16:23:22 <Judy> We processed some; came up with a few questions about how to _record_ transition of some bugs over to the TF, or to note deferral to HTML5.1. Minutes of 11 Dec meeting follow:
16:23:22 <Judy> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Dec/0054.html
16:23:23 <Judy> We will meet again on 18 Dec, and invite anyone who likes swatting bugs to join us.
16:24:27 <janina> jb: Specific questions we uncovered in our review include:
16:24:40 <janina> jb: How to properly move a bug to HTML 5.1?
16:24:47 <Judy> zakim, who's on the phone?
16:24:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see Janina_Sajka, Stevef, hober, [IPcaller], John_Foliot, Judy, chaals, David_MacDonald, IanPouncey, Cynthia_Shelly
16:25:01 <janina> jb: How to assign a bug to the TF? Apart from any particular HTML rev?
16:25:14 <janina> Paul? Can you call in and help on these? Paul Cotton?
16:25:47 <janina> Oops, that was supposed to have been slash me!
16:26:40 <Judy> s/Paul? Can you call in and help on these? Paul Cotton?//
16:26:54 <janina> jb: Leonie, do you have suggestions?
16:27:14 <Judy> s/Oops, that was supposed to have been slash me!//
16:27:23 <janina> Leonie: We've simply emailed people with our comments/suggestions. We've had complaints of flooding when we were annotating bugs directly.
16:28:32 <chaals> q+ to say I don't think we need this yet...
16:28:35 <Stevef> agenda+ generator-unable-to-provide-required-alt attribute http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Dec/0034.html
16:29:08 <Stevef> ack chaals
16:29:08 <Zakim> chaals, you wanted to say I don't think we need this yet...
16:29:27 <janina> js: Suggest we consider whether keeping TF bugs in the HTML-WG Bugzilla is still appropriate under the new implications from Plan 2014
16:29:39 <janina> chals: We should take this up in our chair considerations
16:29:51 <janina> jf: Suggest we're already seeing this need
16:30:12 <Judy> q+
16:30:14 <LjW> q+
16:30:44 <janina> cs: Can we have different email rules for different bugzilla components
16:30:50 <janina> sf: Think that's a different question
16:31:04 <janina> sf: We can add/change/etc bugzilla components
16:31:13 <janina> sf: I'll ping Mike Smith about this
16:32:08 <janina> jb: There's also an issue of TF items not being on either 5.0 or 5.1 timelines, because they're independent of WG timelines
16:33:29 <Judy> s/not being on/not necessarily being on/
16:33:29 <janina> sf: All that needs happen is to ask for a particular component spec
16:34:08 <janina> js: Examples?
16:34:18 <janina> chals: Perhaps we should write up how to do this
16:34:26 <janina> sf: longdesc, alt doc, etc
16:34:46 <janina> sf: It's simple for Mike to create a componant
16:35:27 <janina> leonie: It may be useful which person is monitoring the bug
16:35:32 <janina> js: The asignee?
16:35:44 <janina> lenoie: But our monitor, not the person responsible for the fix, necessarily
16:36:21 <janina> chls: One approach to that is to clone the bug, gets two numbers, but the second number can be assigned to, and possibly even block, resolution of the first
16:37:05 <janina> js: This sounds useful, perhaps we do simply need a quick summary of effective bugzilla use
16:37:30 <janina> chls: Perhaps our own TF summary
16:37:57 <LjW> ack me
16:39:07 <janina> sf: I should also note that the individual user can cchoose betweentext and html email.
16:39:21 <JF> s/lenoie/leonie/
16:39:23 <janina> sf: Getting html eliminates the ASCII art and might be helpful
16:39:33 <Judy> q-
16:39:43 <Judy> agenda?
16:39:58 <janina> jf: I'm generally not a fan of html emails, and would not want it to be default
16:40:08 <janina> sf: That's my point, the user can choose
16:41:39 <janina> action: Janina to start putting a Bugzilla Cheat Sheet together for TF due 20130201
16:41:39 <trackbot> Created ACTION-151 - Start putting a Bugzilla Cheat Sheet together for TF due 20130201 [on Janina Sajka - due 2012-12-20].
16:41:50 <janina> AAPI Mapping
16:42:13 <janina> cs: Still having great trouble finding a working telecon time
16:42:32 <janina> cs: Thinking we should move forward in email for now. The phone hasn't worked for us so far.
16:42:43 <janina> sf: I've also been unavailable recently
16:43:03 <janina> cs: Also been unavailable recently, hoping January will be easier
16:43:46 <janina> zakim, next item
16:43:46 <Zakim> agendum 7. "Other Business" taken up [from Stevef]
16:44:04 <Stevef> generator-unable-to-provide-required-alt attribute http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Dec/0034.html [from Stevef]
16:45:39 <janina> sf: A problem in the editorial process of spec development
16:45:49 <janina> sf: Silvia updates change log to the list weely
16:46:12 <janina> sf: Anything added in WHAT is being auto added into W3C 5.1
16:46:30 <hober> s/WHAT/the WHATWG spec/
16:46:40 <janina> sf: Even what appear to be minor editorial changes can break agreed conformance reqs
16:46:55 <janina> sf: We need to track these very closely for this reason
16:47:14 <janina> sf: So, the specific concern of the moment is the meta generator question again
16:47:40 <hober> re: generator-unable-to-provide-required-alt in 5.1, I liked darobin's comments in http://www.w3.org/mid/50C9BE10.5070201@w3.org
16:48:45 <JF> Q+
16:49:19 <Judy> q+
16:49:37 <chaals> q+
16:50:08 <janina> js: Believe issues we've resolved in 5.0 need not be undone in 5.1 through some process glitch. The burden is on nyone who wants a change made to make the case for the change, not for us to reargue the same points for 5.1
16:50:18 <JF> ack JF
16:50:22 <janina> jf: Suggest this might be a WHAT end run?
16:50:55 <janina> sf: I think this is up to us to be aware and note these, so that we don't end up in this situation
16:51:23 <janina> sf: I should note Silvia does do some filtering and arranging of these, pointing out items she recognizes as controversial or in diff
16:52:05 <janina> sf: I've been in discussions about how things are added, or not, on the new HTML-Admin list
16:52:13 <janina> sf: We all need to pay more attention to this
16:52:21 <janina> ack judy
16:53:24 <janina> jb: Happy to revisit meta generator in 5.1, as we agreed we could consider new approaches
16:53:28 <Judy> q?
16:53:42 <janina> sf: If these things slip in, I believe it's an honest mistake
16:54:19 <janina> chals: We should always watch what goes in, because much is coming in, and the editors have a great burden to keep everything merged correctly
16:54:28 <janina> chals: We should be helping catch problem items
16:55:34 <janina> chals: At the least we should flag controversial changes we see and ask them be witheld at the editorial level
16:56:22 <janina> ted: Echo Steve. Editors are trying to do the right thing, but it requiers dilligence, and we appreciate help on this
16:57:11 <janina> Ted: Around the meta generator, have encouraged people that want to try other things to draft an extensions spec, for instance
16:57:46 <chaals> q+
16:57:46 <janina> q?
16:58:12 <janina> sf: Clearly 5.1 is the place to consider new/enhanced approaches
17:00:31 <janina> q+
17:01:28 <Judy> q+
17:02:00 <chaals> q- janina
17:02:02 <chaals> ack me
17:02:19 <Judy> q+ to just confirm that one of the html a11y tf co-chairs is representing TF at today's HTML WG call
17:02:34 <janina> sf: Main conclusion: This is now on our radar, we should pay attention, and we'll bring it back for discussion here next week
17:02:58 <janina> sf: Noting the new list change in the HTML-WGm, please keep process discussion in the HTML-Admin list
17:03:34 <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
17:03:37 <Zakim> -hober
17:03:43 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
17:03:43 <janina> zakim, bye
17:03:43 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-a11y
17:03:44 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Janina_Sajka, Stevef, hober, IanPouncey, [IPcaller], chaals?, John_Foliot, Judy, Plh, chaals, David_MacDonald, Cynthia_Shelly
17:03:49 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
17:03:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/13-html-a11y-minutes.html janina
17:04:18 <janina> janina has left #html-a11y
17:25:24 <janina> janina has joined #html-a11y
17:25:53 <janina> HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference; Thursday 20 December at 16:00Z for 60 minutes
17:28:26 <chaals1> chaals1 has joined #html-a11y
19:20:45 <Stevef> Stevef has joined #html-a11y
20:22:14 <Stevef> Stevef has joined #html-a11y
21:06:17 <Judy> Judy has left #html-a11y
21:09:47 <silvia> silvia has joined #html-a11y
21:29:34 <Stevef> Stevef has joined #html-a11y
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