15:01:37 RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict 15:01:37 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/12/07-wcag2ict-irc 15:01:39 RRSAgent, make logs world 15:01:39 Zakim has joined #wcag2ict 15:01:41 Zakim, this will be 2428 15:01:41 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM scheduled to start now 15:01:42 Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference 15:01:42 Date: 07 December 2012 15:01:50 zakim, who's here? 15:01:50 WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has not yet started, janina 15:01:51 On IRC I see RRSAgent, Loic, Mike_P, janina, MichaelC_, trackbot 15:02:07 alex_ has joined #wcag2ict 15:02:09 zakim, this will be WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM 15:02:10 ok, janina, I see WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM already started 15:02:19 zakim, who's here? 15:02:19 On the phone I see [IPcaller], ??P14, ??P15, [Microsoft] 15:02:20 On IRC I see alex_, Zakim, RRSAgent, Loic, Mike_P, janina, MichaelC_, trackbot 15:02:43 zakim, ??P14 is Janina_Sajka 15:02:43 +Janina_Sajka; got it 15:03:06 zakim, ??P15 is Loïc_Martinez 15:03:06 +Loïc_Martinez; got it 15:03:16 scribe: loic 15:03:27 zakim, microsoft is Alex 15:03:28 +Alex; got it 15:03:39 zakim, [ipcaller] is Mike 15:03:39 +Mike; got it 15:03:46 zakim, who's here? 15:03:47 On the phone I see Mike, Janina_Sajka, Loïc_Martinez, Alex 15:03:47 On IRC I see alex_, Zakim, RRSAgent, Loic, Mike_P, janina, MichaelC_, trackbot 15:04:26 Judy has joined #wcag2ict 15:04:53 agenda+ Feedback from WCAG WG meeting yesterday 15:04:57 +Kiran_Kaja 15:04:59 agenda+ Survey on comments on public draft #2 [2] 15:05:07 agenda+ Confirm next meeting time; action items; [3] 15:05:12 korn has joined #wcag2ict 15:05:31 +Judy 15:05:36 zakim, who's here? 15:05:36 On the phone I see Mike, Janina_Sajka, Loïc_Martinez, Alex, Kiran_Kaja, Judy 15:05:38 On IRC I see korn, Judy, alex_, Zakim, RRSAgent, Loic, Mike_P, janina, MichaelC_, trackbot 15:05:42 zakim, take up item 1 15:05:42 agendum 1. "Feedback from WCAG WG meeting yesterday" taken up [from Loic] 15:06:19 +[Oracle] 15:06:20 Zakim, Oracle has Peter_Korn 15:06:21 +Peter_Korn; got it 15:07:07 +??P35 15:07:11 Kiran_Kaja has joined #wcag2ict 15:08:58 PK: Summarizes feedback from WCAG WG meeting yesterday. Their comments this time are mostly advisory, not necessary for approval. 15:09:28 Alex: The more important comment is about 1.4.4 in the closed functionality. 15:10:34 Comments from WCAG-WG: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag2ict-tf/2012Dec/0032.html 15:11:42 q+ 15:12:38 PK: The WCAG-WG suggests that we remove 1.4.4 from the list of "problematic" success criteria for closed functionality. 15:13:23 We may keep it but provide more explanation about the issues. For instance if the text is already large enough then no resize is needed. 15:14:07 q+ 15:14:15 q+ 15:14:57 MP: 1.4.4 was an issue for the ATM Industry Assotiation in some drafts of the M 376 work. 15:15:10 +David_MacDonald 15:15:27 ack Mike_P 15:16:30 David has joined #wcag2ict 15:17:54 GV has written some replies to the WCAG-WG as part of his comments to Introduction: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/W2IDRAFT2/results#xq3 15:18:14 q? 15:18:24 ack Judy 15:19:06 We talked about keeping 1.4.4 in the list but we need better explanation. 15:19:23 ack alex_ 15:21:59 q+ 15:23:51 Peter is offering to generate text for survey (on Monday) about 1.4.4 in closed functionality. Michael Cooper will prepare the survey with that text. 15:24:38 Peter will work with Gregg on that. 15:24:43 ack Alex 15:25:25 Next comment from WCAG-WG is about defining "set of documents" in the "key terms" section. 15:28:59 We feel that we can make that change, but it requires adding a definition in "key terms" and modifying all the SC guidance where we rely on "set of documents". 15:30:18 We agree that it may require some amount of work and we are not sure it can be done in time for this draft. 15:30:37 Peter will talk to Gregg about the possibility of implementing this. 15:31:13 q+ 15:31:43 Next comment about 3.2.4. They asked us to use similar wording we have been using in other SC. 15:31:58 +1 15:32:29 +1 15:32:47 We need to replace the language but it may open the discussion about 3.2.4. 15:33:52 q+ 15:34:21 ack Loic 15:36:41 We have to be careful here to not open a discussion on "set of software". One possibility (raised by Loïc in the survey) is to replace "a set of Web pages" by "a non-web document or software". 15:37:02 It could read: 3.2.4: Consistent Identification: Components that have the same functionality within [a non-web document or software] are identified consistently. 15:37:51 We agree on the following 15:37:53 This applies directly as written, and as described in INTENT from Understanding WCAG 2.0 (above) replacing “a set of Web pages” with “a non-web document or software”. With these substitutions, it would read: 3.2.4: Consistent Identification: Components that have the same functionality within [a non-web document or software] are identified consistently. (Level AA) 15:45:41 RESOLUTION: amend SC 3.2.4 as: "This applies directly as written, and as described in INTENT from Understanding WCAG 2.0 (above) replacing “a set of Web pages” with “a non-web document or software”. With these substitutions, it would read: 3.2.4: Consistent Identification: Components that have the same functionality within [a non-web document or software] are identified consistently. (Level AA)" 15:47:12 Next comment from WCAG-WG about the reference to potential gaps. There is a suggestion to use "MAY not be sufficient". 15:47:45 In the survey, Gregg has proposed language: "Because this document deals with applying WCAG, which is a standard for content accessibility, to ICT it does not deal with such things as closed products and requirements for non-user interface aspects of platforms, nor individual components. As such, this document is not sufficient by itself to ensure accessibility…" 15:58:26 Agreed text: Because this document deals with applying WCAG, which is a standard for content accessibility, to ICT it does not deal with such things as closed products and requirements for non-user interface aspects of platforms, nor individual components. As such, this document is not sufficient by itself to ensure accessibility... 16:00:38 RESOLUTION: Intro 5th bullet: "Because this document deals with applying WCAG, which is a standard for content accessibility, to ICT it does not deal with such things as closed products and requirements for non-user interface aspects of platforms, nor individual components. As such, this document is not sufficient by itself to ensure accessibility…"; fall back to MAY if WCAG WG disagrees 16:01:10 zakim, next item 16:01:11 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, janina 16:01:14 https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/W2IDRAFT2/results 16:01:22 q? 16:01:25 q- 16:01:57 zakim, next item 16:01:57 agendum 2. "Survey on comments on public draft #2" taken up [from 2] 16:02:14 First: Abstract and Status. https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/W2IDRAFT2/results#xq2 16:04:19 Issue about email address for WCAG 2.0 comments. 16:05:59 Mary Jo suggested to delete the sentence "Alternatively, you may send them to the e-mail address above." to avoid confusion. 16:06:27 q+ 16:06:44 q+ 16:07:03 http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG2ICT-TF/track/actions/81 16:09:29 Peter raised an issue in the abstract about how it refers to conformance. To be dealt in the next draft (Action 81). 16:10:16 Judy talks about need for quick actions if we want to publish by the end of this month. 16:11:53 q+ 16:11:56 q- 16:12:40 Next Tuesday is the last possibility for making changes in the draft if it is to be published this month. 16:13:02 ACTION: Judy and Michael sort out clarifications regarding how and where to comment on the draft. 16:13:02 Created ACTION-83 - And Michael sort out clarifications regarding how and where to comment on the draft. [on Judy Brewer - due 2012-12-14]. 16:13:11 q+ 16:13:46 ack me 16:14:35 Correction: we need everyone active in the TF to comment in the survey before next Tuesday. 16:15:28 Correction: for publication this month we would need approval by WCAG-WG in the next Thursday meeting. 16:17:22 q+ 16:17:32 q- 16:17:40 In the meeting we agreed with the editorial changes for Abstract and Status 16:17:57 Second: Introduction: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/W2IDRAFT2/results#xq3 16:20:44 Issue on "updated" Understanding. Loïc has proposed text to explain that the "Understanding" document is being updated. 16:21:41 Mary Jo proposed to work to add rationale to explain or document how we arrived at the guidance and any special considerations. But we have not specific text. 16:22:13 Peter will work on that. 16:22:39 ACTION: Peter to propose additional rationale language to explain and/or document how we arrived on the guidance and any special considerations (cf. Mary Jo's comments on the introduction at this week's survey, at https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/W2IDRAFT2/results) 16:22:40 Created ACTION-84 - Propose additional rationale language to explain and/or document how we arrived on the guidance and any special considerations (cf. Mary Jo's comments on the introduction at this week's survey, at https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/W2IDRAFT2/results) [on Peter Korn - due 2012-12-14]. 16:22:46 Third: Key Terms: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/W2IDRAFT2/results#xq4 16:27:23 There are some editorial comments and a discussion about highlighted words (in bold) in some of the key terms. 16:28:00 We need to be consistent. We've got highlights in "content" but not in "user agent". 16:28:41 And if this is important we need to make that information also explained in text and not only relying in the bold style. 16:28:53 q+ 16:31:44 +1 to extending up to an extra hour next Tuesday 16:32:19 +1 to extending next Tuesday 16:32:53 -Kiran_Kaja 16:34:11 -David_MacDonald 16:34:17 -Alex 16:34:38 -Mike 16:34:39 -[Oracle] 16:34:39 -Michael_Cooper 16:34:44 -Judy 16:34:44 Mike_P has left #wcag2ict 16:34:50 Zakim, bye 16:34:50 leaving. As of this point the attendees were Janina_Sajka, Loïc_Martinez, Alex, Mike, Kiran_Kaja, Judy, Peter_Korn, Michael_Cooper, David_MacDonald 16:34:50 Zakim has left #wcag2ict 16:35:25 RRSAgent, make minutes 16:35:25 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/12/07-wcag2ict-minutes.html Loic 16:36:47 janina has left #wcag2ict 17:12:38 korn has left #wcag2ict