16:00:10 RRSAgent has joined #mlw-lt 16:00:10 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/26-mlw-lt-irc 16:00:26 Zakim has joined #mlw-lt 16:00:35 meeting: mlw-lt WG 16:00:36 chair: felix 16:00:38 dF has joined #mlw-lt 16:00:42 philr has joined #mlw-lt 16:00:52 Ankit has joined #mlw-lt 16:00:53 Yves_ has joined #mlw-lt 16:00:53 present +Jirka 16:01:04 present +Ankit 16:01:04 present +dF 16:01:06 present+ Yves_ 16:01:22 present+ felix 16:01:29 Des has joined #mlw-lt 16:01:45 present+ daveL 16:02:02 agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Nov/0210.html 16:02:13 regrets: Christian, Naoto, Jörg 16:02:16 Pedro has joined #mlw-lt 16:02:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 16:02:42 present+ kfritsche 16:02:45 present+ DomJones 16:02:47 present +Des 16:02:50 present+ leroy 16:02:52 present+ omstefanov 16:02:58 present+ pnietoca 16:02:59 present +philr 16:03:22 chriLi has joined #mlw-lt 16:03:24 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 16:03:31 Arle has joined #mlw-lt 16:03:31 present+ chrLi 16:03:36 present+ 16:03:42 present+ Pedro 16:03:46 present+ Arle 16:04:22 present+ christian 16:04:43 Milan has joined #mlw-lt 16:04:53 scribe: dF 16:05:04 topic: Test suite 16:05:15 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt-tests/2012Nov/0071.html 16:05:41 fsasaki: What is the nature of the second milestone? 16:05:51 .. can you summarize? 16:06:19 see milestones also at https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgIk0-aoSKOadG5HQmJDT2EybWVvVC1VbnF5alN2S3c#gid=0 16:06:23 DomJones1: M2 is less formal 16:07:05 .. M3 and on are stronger, more formal 16:07:17 Yves_: nothing to add 16:07:50 philr: I would have approached it in a meaningfully different way 16:08:21 .. does everybody need to implement all the categories? 16:08:55 fsasaki: the minimum is 2 implementations that produce the test suite output 16:09:28 .. as discussed, it is for demonstrating interoperability 16:09:56 .. we need the extra effort to show that the implementations do the same across scenarios 16:10:00 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgIk0-aoSKOadG5HQmJDT2EybWVvVC1VbnF5alN2S3c#gid=0 16:10:23 .. the recorded commitments are for the test suite 16:10:40 q+ 16:11:01 ack 16:11:01 philr: are there strong rulings re parsing methods? 16:11:40 ack Dom 16:11:43 fsasaki: there are no such rules, just input and output files, no questions for your methodology in between 16:11:49 will there be any independent running of these tests? 16:11:55 Fredrik has joined #mlw-lt 16:12:17 +queue 16:12:55 leroy: people asked if they can modify test suite files 16:13:18 .. can correct obvious errors, but discuss anything other before changing 16:13:25 ack chr 16:14:16 chriLi: more general question, any decision for using test case, mandate for use cases? 16:14:24 +omstefanov 16:14:30 http://www.w3.org/2012/09/mlw-lt-charter.html 16:14:35 +queue 16:14:37 fsasaki: test suite is w3c requirement 16:14:53 mdelolmo has joined #mlw-lt 16:14:57 .. CR phase should start in March 16:15:18 .. test suite is critical for proving interoperability during CR 16:15:28 .. any other questions? 16:15:39 present+ mdelolmo 16:15:40 present+ des 16:15:41 Des: question on timing.. 16:16:06 .. I could not do it within the publicly given time frame 16:16:32 fsasaki: are you referring to your implementation effort? 16:16:40 Des: yes 16:17:21 fsasaki: Do not worry, with exception of LQ Precis, all categories are covered by other commitments 16:17:44 .. continue contributing tests 16:17:52 action: felix to nudge data category ownser to contribute to test suite 16:17:52 Created ACTION-318 - Nudge data category ownser to contribute to test suite [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-03]. 16:18:08 Wanted to ask / minute that if any implementors have any issues with keeping to test-suite dates could they please let Dominic know as soon as possible. This way we can work with you to match resources and the time frame. 16:18:33 Action: Felix to nudge data category owners asking for test suite contributions by the end of the year 16:18:34 Created ACTION-319 - Nudge data category owners asking for test suite contributions by the end of the year [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-03]. 16:19:00 topic: Drop localization quality precis 16:19:25 http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#lqprecis 16:19:35 checking of global rules did not progress 16:19:41 "100 (inclusive) with higher values indicating a better score" 16:19:59 https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AgIk0-aoSKOadG5HQmJDT2EybWVvVC1VbnF5alN2S3c#gid=0 16:20:16 fsasaki: It is hard to read, contains nested rules, not enough work here, not enough test suite commitments 16:20:41 .. only Vistatec and UL committing to test this, this is thin 16:21:17 .. looking for a champion, no need to actually edit the spec, but needs work on exact specification text 16:21:39 philr: I feel it has a role to play 16:22:20 .. there was a vision for far reaching mechanism, eventually non-normative.. 16:22:39 .. I am not up to speed with tool ref, which might be the issue 16:23:04 .. I will try my best to move this by the end of this week 16:23:32 .. I agree it must be dropped if little progress this week 16:23:51 fsasaki: E.g. readiness was dropped due to lack of consensus 16:24:36 .. this might mean tabling till the 2.1 16:24:39 action: phil to work on lq precis to see if we can keep it in the spec 16:24:39 Created ACTION-320 - Work on lq precis to see if we can keep it in the spec [on Phil Ritchie - due 2012-12-03]. 16:25:00 Arle: offering help to philr to work on the category by the end of this week 16:25:26 philr: accepting help offer.. 16:25:35 yep 16:25:40 fsasaki: creating action 320 16:25:57 Jirka: Should I add it to the schema? 16:26:28 fsasaki: This cannot wait for the next week because Jirla is working on the normative schema 16:26:50 .. we would need hard commitment or drop it 16:27:13 .. results by tomorrow, or so.., would that work? 16:27:22 yep, wed is ok 16:27:24 philr: wed lunch time? 16:27:56 topic: Closing ISSUE-42 tools information 16:27:59 Arle and philr agreeing working time Wed morning, forming LQP task force 16:28:02 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 16:28:53 fsasaki: last mail from Yves 16:29:17 Yves_: we need to have this attribute specified for some categories 16:29:25 .. like mtConfidence 16:30:03 .. thing getting hairy on the global side, becuase it can have different inheritance behavior to the category 16:30:28 .. it might be OK on local level only, but you could not address attributes 16:30:56 .. we might rule out a bunch of formats.. we seem to be running in circles 16:31:08 fsasaki: another proposal by Dave 16:31:42 daveL: scared by global rules here, i.e. agreement with Yves basically 16:32:13 .. argument, you need it cases where schema cannot be changed, might not need it anyway 16:32:43 What's the reference to Yves' mail? 16:32:54 .. local expression of tool ref might inherit to attributes, unclear if we say so. 16:33:20 fsasaki: Can we close the issue as is 16:33:47 Yves_: the caveat is that in mtConfdence you would need both global and local 16:34:16 fsasaki: It would be soved with a note? we even do not need a note.. 16:34:23 Yves_: agreed 16:34:27 close issues-42 16:34:33 close issue-42 16:34:33 ISSUE-42 Tool and confidence related information is similar for mtConfidence, textAnalysisAnnotation, quality closed 16:34:45 https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/issues/open 16:35:13 next topics: editorial isssues, and xliff mapping 16:35:43 topic: Actions needed for the LC draft 16:35:53 action-286? 16:35:53 ACTION-286 -- Shaun McCance to put data category table into non-normative appendix in the spec -- due 2012-11-19 -- OPEN 16:35:53 http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/286 16:35:55 fsasaki: I formally invite people to express any issues with normative parts of the spec for LC 16:36:27 action: felix to take over shauns action itemt on data category table 16:36:27 Created ACTION-321 - Take over shauns action itemt on data category table [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-03]. 16:36:33 fsasaki: taking over Shaun's action item to create data category table 16:36:52 done 16:37:21 fsasaki: question about normativeness of schema 16:37:56 fsasaki: RelaxNG is the normative 16:38:23 .. XML schema will be mostly automatically generated, informative 16:38:29 action-314? 16:38:29 ACTION-314 -- Yves Savourel to check global rules for provenance -- due 2012-11-27 -- CLOSED 16:38:29 http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/track/actions/314 16:38:59 fsasaki: Yves did that. Is there a need to chenge anything in the spec? 16:39:21 Yves_: Looking at the examples.. 16:39:31 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 16:39:32 issues with mapping to XLIFF 16:40:21 toolref and pointers cannot be mapped onto XLIFF 16:40:26 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Nov/0186.html 16:40:31 scribe: fsasaki 16:40:38 davidF: if I map MT confidence to XLIFF 16:40:45 .. and I don't know who produdced that 16:40:49 .. I lost all information 16:41:00 yves: not saying you cannot put the information 16:41:09 .. but you cannot do that with a pointer 16:41:24 dave: Yves is reffering to toolsRef 16:41:30 .. have to think about that 16:41:45 DaveL: the issue os with toolref in Provenace not the Tool Reference element 16:41:46 .. will look at it tonight, we can discuss at the call tomorrow 16:41:53 scribe: dF 16:41:58 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 16:42:24 .. you are right that this might be the only major point for ponters, it might be otherwise good to get rid of pointers 16:42:51 .. this will be adressed in the editting call totmorrow 16:43:00 action: felix to make sure next call we discuss poiner issues for proveancne and toolsRef 16:43:00 Created ACTION-322 - Make sure next call we discuss poiner issues for proveancne and toolsRef [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-12-03]. 16:43:32 fsasaki: This is to make sure that the group has follow up to the editting call 16:44:23 .. harmonization of interval 0-1 iclusive, mial posted by df 16:44:28 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Nov/0202.html 16:44:50 fsasaki: report on number of small changes to the spec 16:45:13 .. is there someone on the call who was through them, or volunteers to go through them 16:45:20 action: daveL to check edits at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Nov/0202.html 16:45:20 Created ACTION-323 - Check edits at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Nov/0202.html [on David Lewis - due 2012-12-03]. 16:45:47 Yves_: Id id not see anything controversial, covered everything but did not go into detail in all 16:45:49 topic: Editing calls Tue - Wed 16:46:20 felix 16:46:21 yves 16:46:25 Arle: Tuesday and Wednesday 16:46:31 kfritsche 16:46:38 dave 16:46:39 taking roll call for the partcipation in edittting call Tue and Wed 16:46:40 pnietoca 16:46:45 jirka - probably tue, wed and thu 16:46:59 david: I can do the 1st hour tomorrow 16:47:10 .. and wednesday the call 16:47:22 dF: I can make Wed 16:48:08 fsasaki, start meeting with splitting up and fork parallel editting 16:48:34 .. meeting agian in an hour or so.., depend on how many have editting set up 16:49:22 daveL: might have issues with too many instances of goto, but might do also skype 16:49:46 +queue 16:49:56 ack om 16:50:03 fsasaki: editting can be done fully offline, the others can make a coffee break 16:50:44 omstafanov: what about independent testing? 16:50:46 q+ 16:50:58 fsasaki: what do you mean by independent? 16:51:41 omstefanov: the tests are designed by implmeneters, does any one verify if ENLASO indeed conforms? 16:52:12 fsasaki: the idea is that the tests and results are public 16:52:49 .. it is OK to base test results on the same library across implementations, but this all will be reviewed by w3c mgmt 16:53:01 ack dom 16:53:11 omstefanov: thanks, this is answered.. 16:53:33 ack chri 16:53:50 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 16:54:00 DomJones1: We hope that the transparent test suite will attract independent implementers (not now in the group) 16:54:44 chriLi: not sure if editting is efficient with many on the editting call 16:55:21 .. I started going through the spec, normative and non-normative.. Is it a good time to post them now? 16:55:57 "not sure if editting is efficient with many on the editting call" (different summary below) 16:56:30 fsasaki: Christian is going through explanatory sections, but we need to stabilize the normative parts now.. 16:56:52 .. what is the time for feedback on non-normative? I say as soon as possible 16:57:12 topic: Stability of quality issue types 16:57:39 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-multilingualweb-lt/2012Nov/0208.html 16:57:45 fsasaki: Danile is impmenting this 16:58:18 .. Arle, does this discussion reveal any changes? 16:58:31 Arle: It does not require normative changes 16:58:38 .. just explanatory 16:58:57 topic: AOB 16:59:05 fsasaki: discussion to continue on the list 16:59:06 topic: EU PROJECT SPECIFIC 16:59:11 .. AOB? 16:59:17 Felix, can you on the micro 16:59:29 The mlw-lt call adjourned 16:59:50 The following is only for the LT-Web partners, re end of year report 17:00:40 nieves.sande@dfki.de arle, felix 17:00:51 fsasaki: send everything to the memberlist 17:01:06 .. and put above three people into CC 17:01:16 .. Nieves, Arle, and Felix on CC, and they will parse it 17:01:29 I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft minuutes', fsasaki. Try /msg RRSAgent help 17:01:34 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 17:01:44 https://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/wiki/Presentations_archive 17:01:53 not only outreach material, but also slides 17:01:55 We mentioned www.multilingualweb.eu in tcWorld 2012 http://conferences.tekom.de/fileadmin/tx_doccon/slides/115_Highlights_Holes_in_and_Hopes_for_the_Multilingual_Web_.pdf 17:02:13 yes, chriLi 17:02:38 Pedro: New section? 17:03:01 fsasaki: Arle is going to preopare an HTML webpage 17:03:21 Pedro: need more homogeneity 17:03:51 .. we should get a template, so that the content is easily parsed 17:03:51 action: arle to create template for report 17:03:52 Created ACTION-324 - Create template for report [on Arle Lommel - due 2012-12-03]. 17:04:23 Arle: It will be OK if you stick to basic HTML, we can style it with CSS 17:04:47 fsasaki: It is good to include stuff by not funded parties 17:05:20 Pedro: timeframe for LC? Will it be public? 17:05:47 http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-its20-20121206/ 17:05:51 fsasaki: the time frame of the LC is early next week, I can give you the URI now 17:06:10 DomJones1 has left #mlw-lt 17:06:13 fsasaki: AOB? 17:06:17 .. adjourned 17:06:28 present+ milan 17:06:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/26-mlw-lt-minutes.html fsasaki 17:06:44 Jirka has left #mlw-lt 17:06:53 dF has left #mlw-lt 19:19:11 Zakim has left #mlw-lt