14:53:45 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
14:53:45 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/13-wcag2ict-irc
14:53:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:53:49 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2428
14:53:49 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
14:53:50 <trackbot> Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
14:53:50 <trackbot> Date: 13 November 2012
14:55:12 <shadi> hi andi
14:55:29 <shadi> i won't be able to participate by phone today
14:55:48 <shadi> ping me if i can help with anything via irc
14:56:31 <MaryJo> MaryJo has joined #wcag2ict
14:57:58 <Kiran_Kaja> Kiran_Kaja has joined #wcag2ict
14:58:31 <BBailey> BBailey has joined #wcag2ict
14:59:15 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has now started
14:59:18 <Zakim> +Kiran_Kaja
14:59:22 <Zakim> +Bruce_Bailey
14:59:48 <BBailey> zakim, i am bruce
14:59:49 <Zakim> ok, BBailey, I now associate you with Bruce_Bailey
15:00:11 <David> David has joined #wcag2ict
15:00:25 <Zakim> +Andi_Snow_Weaver
15:00:37 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
15:00:53 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
15:00:54 <Zakim> +MaryJo
15:01:15 <Andi> zakim, Microsoft has Alex_Li
15:01:15 <Zakim> +Alex_Li; got it
15:01:22 <Mike_P> Mike_P has joined #wcag2ict
15:02:01 <Zakim> +Gregg_Vanderheiden
15:02:38 <greggvanderheiden> greggvanderheiden has joined #wcag2ict
15:04:07 <Zakim> +??P21
15:04:17 <Andi> zakim, ??P21 is Mike_Pluke
15:04:17 <Zakim> +Mike_Pluke; got it
15:04:32 <janina> janina has joined #wcag2ict
15:04:35 <Andi> chair: Mike_Pluke
15:04:59 <alex_> alex_ has joined #wcag2ict
15:05:07 <Zakim> +??P24
15:05:12 <Andi> scribe: Andi_Snow-Weaver
15:05:14 <Andi> topic: Survey on the document title:https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/NOV132012/results
15:05:23 <Andi> zakim, ??P24 is Janina_Sajka
15:05:23 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
15:05:36 <Zakim> +Judy
15:05:43 <Andi> regrets: Allen_Hoffman, Loic_Martinez_Normand
15:07:31 <Andi> RESOLUTION: Accept new title "Guidance on Applying WCAG 2.0 to Non-web Information and Communications Technologies"
15:08:30 <Andi> Back to the additional SC for Closed Functionality, starting with 2.4.2 Page Titledhttps://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/OCT112012/results
15:08:44 <Andi> s/Back to/topic: Back to/
15:09:30 <MichaelC_> MichaelC_ has joined #wcag2ict
15:10:04 <Andi> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/OCT112012/results#xq12
15:11:20 <Andi> q+
15:11:42 <greggvanderheiden> q+
15:12:05 <BBailey> q+ to say we need to careful about what being on the list means
15:12:09 <Andi> ack andi
15:13:18 <Andi> ack gregg
15:13:21 <BBailey> ack bruce
15:13:21 <Zakim> Bruce_Bailey, you wanted to say we need to careful about what being on the list means
15:13:46 <Andi> q+
15:14:28 <Mike_P> M376 approach: https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&pid=sites&srcid=ZGVmYXVsdGRvbWFpbnx3Y2FnMmljdHxneDoxMzgxYmI2YzU4MmU5NzU5
15:14:51 <Andi> ack andi
15:19:32 <Andi> topic: 1.4.5
15:20:31 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
15:20:33 <Andi> if there are images of text, it's important that the text either be of a sufficient size or that there be some way to enlarge it
15:21:05 <Zakim> +??P20
15:21:06 <Andi> but we don't believe we can prescribe that actual text has to be used rather than images of text in closed functionality
15:21:24 <Andi> RESOLUTION: Add 1.4.5 to the list for closed functionality
15:21:45 <Andi> topic: 2.4.2 Page Titled
15:22:16 <alex_> q+
15:22:27 <Andi> ack alex
15:24:10 <Zakim> +??P36
15:24:27 <greggvanderheiden> q+
15:24:30 <janina> zakim, ??P36 is Janina_Sajka
15:24:30 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
15:24:48 <Andi> in multitasking environments, the purpose of the title is to remind the user what task he/she is doing - doesn't seem to be necessary in single task environments
15:24:55 <Andi> q+
15:27:06 <alex_> q+
15:27:08 <Andi> ack gregg
15:27:11 <Andi> q-
15:28:19 <Mike_P> q+
15:28:26 <Andi> ack alex
15:29:14 <greggvanderheiden> q+
15:29:15 <greggvanderheiden> '
15:29:23 <Andi> ack mike
15:29:31 <Andi> ack gregg
15:30:30 <Andi> this is about a document title or software title - not anything inside the document or software
15:31:15 <alex_> q+
15:31:18 <Andi> q+
15:32:33 <Andi> ack alex
15:33:20 <Andi> where software is an integral part of a closed product that has only one funtion (calculator, IP phone), there is no need for a title
15:34:23 <Andi> if we add to the list, need a one line explanation/rationale much as we have for the others
15:35:02 <BBailey> q+
15:35:07 <Andi> ack andi
15:35:53 <Andi> ack bruce
15:35:55 <Andi> q+
15:36:29 <Zakim> -??P20
15:38:26 <janina> q+
15:38:53 <Andi> ack andi
15:39:01 <David> q+
15:39:13 <Andi> reminder of some of the words we have around this list ....
15:39:18 <Andi> "Where AT cannot be used, other output and input solutions are needed to achieve the intent of these success criteria."
15:39:19 <janina> q-
15:39:30 <Andi> and "Note: While these guidelines are not suitable for closed functionality as written, they will inform and aid development of built-in accessible alternatives needed with closed functionality."
15:39:34 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
15:39:46 <Andi> ack david
15:40:10 <Zakim> +??P1
15:40:30 <janina> zakim, ??P1 is Janina_Sajka
15:40:30 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
15:42:13 <Andi> q+
15:44:48 <Zakim> -Judy
15:45:05 <janina> q+
15:45:05 <Andi> ack andi
15:45:50 <Andi> titles are not needed for any single task function environment, whether it is closed to AT or not
15:47:22 <Andi> example of where there is a single task function - Linux based phone with a USB port - could put AT on a USB drive
15:47:42 <Andi> RESOLUTION: Add 1.4.2 to the list for closed functionality with appropriate rationale
15:47:57 <Andi> topic: 3.3.1 Error Identification
15:48:11 <korn> korn has joined #wcag2ict
15:48:32 <Zakim> +Judy
15:48:57 <Andi> q+
15:49:01 <Andi> ack janina
15:49:24 <alex_> q+
15:49:38 <Zakim> +[Oracle]
15:49:44 <Andi> ack andi
15:49:46 <korn> Zakim, Oracle has Peter_Korn
15:49:46 <Zakim> +Peter_Korn; got it
15:50:47 <Andi> ack alex
15:51:18 <Mike_P> q+
15:53:04 <Andi> we need rationale with this one that makes it clear the information needs to be presented but it doesn't have to be "text" according to the WCAG 2.0 definition of text
15:55:34 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
15:56:22 <Zakim> +??P1
15:56:38 <Zakim> -??P1
15:56:56 <Zakim> +??P1
15:57:05 <Mike_P> Mike_P has joined #wcag2ict
15:57:32 <janina> zakim, ??P1 is Janina_Sajka
15:57:32 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
15:57:37 <Zakim> +??P6
15:58:16 <Andi> proposal for the rationale for this one: while it's important that errors that can be detected are described in words, for closed functionality, the error doesn't have to be in text, as defined in WCAG
16:02:24 <Andi> RESOLUTION: Add 3.3.1 to the list with appropriate rationale
16:02:47 <Andi> s/RESOLUTION: Add 1.4.2 to the list for closed functionality with appropriate rationale/RESOLUTION: Add 2.4.2 to the list for closed functionality with appropriate rationale/
16:03:00 <Zakim> +Judy.a
16:04:04 <greggvanderheiden> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/cross-cutting-issues-and-notes/remaining-3-scs
16:05:15 <Andi> topic: last three SC - guidance on software
16:05:43 <Andi> rrsagent, make minutes
16:05:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/13-wcag2ict-minutes.html Andi
16:05:45 <korn> q+
16:06:58 <Andi> s/RESOLUTION: Add 1.4.5 to the list for closed functionality/RESOLUTION: Add 1.4.5 to the list for closed functionality with appropriate rationale/
16:07:19 <Andi> s/RESOLUTION: Add 3.3.1 to the list with appropriate rationale/RESOLUTION: Add 3.3.1 to the list for closed functionality with appropriate rationale/
16:07:28 <Andi> rrsagent, make minutes
16:07:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/13-wcag2ict-minutes.html Andi
16:07:31 <MaryJo> MaryJo has joined #wcag2ict
16:11:55 <Zakim> -??P6
16:12:04 <Judy> Judy has joined #wcag2ict
16:12:21 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
16:12:38 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:12:55 <korn> q?
16:13:04 <Zakim> +??P6
16:13:32 <Zakim> +??P12
16:13:34 <Zakim> -??P6
16:14:00 <janina> zakim, ??P6 is Janina_Sajka
16:14:00 <Zakim> I already had ??P6 as ??P6, janina
16:14:11 <alex_> q+
16:14:26 <janina> zakim, ??P6 is Janina_Sajka
16:14:26 <Zakim> I already had ??P6 as ??P6, janina
16:14:48 <Andi> ack mike
16:15:00 <Andi> ack korn
16:15:33 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
16:15:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see Bruce_Bailey, Kiran_Kaja, Andi_Snow_Weaver, David_MacDonald, [Microsoft], MaryJo, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Mike_Pluke, Judy, [Oracle], Judy.a, [IPcaller], ??P12
16:15:36 <Zakim> [Microsoft] has Alex_Li
16:15:36 <Zakim> [Oracle] has Peter_Korn
16:15:44 <greggvanderheiden> q+
16:15:53 <janina> zakim, ??P12 is Janina_Sajka
16:15:53 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
16:16:49 <Andi> q?
16:17:37 <BBailey> q+ to double check that we cannot say “webpage in a set of webpages” should be interpreted as “software”?
16:18:22 <Mike_P> q+
16:18:40 <alex_> q-
16:19:46 <BBailey> ack gregg
16:19:55 <korn1> korn1 has joined #wcag2ict
16:20:00 <Andi> Andi has joined #wcag2ict
16:20:11 <Zakim> -[Oracle]
16:20:54 <Judy> q+
16:20:55 <Andi> it's tricky to say there are no examples of "set of software" unless we define it
16:21:37 <Andi> ack gregg
16:21:43 <BBailey> ack bruce
16:21:43 <Zakim> Bruce_Bailey, you wanted to double check that we cannot say “webpage in a set of webpages” should be interpreted as “software”?
16:22:11 <greggvanderheiden> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/cross-cutting-issues-and-notes/remaining-3-scs
16:23:15 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
16:24:33 <korn> korn has joined #wcag2ict
16:24:57 <Andi> WCAG co-chairs agree that we can't interpret "web page within a set of web pages" as "software"
16:25:09 <Andi> q+
16:25:12 <korn> korn has joined #wcag2ict
16:26:22 <Andi> intent of these SC is that they apply to a set of things - we can apply within software as long as we can define what the "things" are in the set
16:27:05 <Andi> we were unable to come up with a definition of things inside software that would make up the set
16:27:08 <korn> q+
16:27:18 <Andi> q-
16:27:33 <Andi> ack mike
16:28:22 <Andi> we attempted to define the "things" by defining "interaction context"
16:28:56 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
16:29:58 <Judy> q+
16:30:31 <Andi> web applications are generally a single URL - if we apply this inside a non-web software product, the rules would be different for non-web and web software
16:32:33 <Andi> ack judy
16:33:19 <greggvanderheiden> q+
16:34:22 <Andi> ack korn
16:35:16 <Andi> ack gregg
16:35:59 <korn> q+
16:36:08 <korn> q?
16:36:17 <Andi> for next draft, may have to say we've not yet reached consensus on guidance for SW for these three SC
16:37:07 <Mike_P> q+
16:39:26 <Andi> ack korn
16:40:55 <Andi> ack mike
16:42:28 <Andi> q+
16:42:48 <greggvanderheiden> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/cross-cutting-issues-and-notes/remaining-3-scs
16:44:50 <Andi> ack andi
16:47:35 <greggvanderheiden> The remaining three success criteria  apply in situations when "a set of web pages", or "multiple web pages" share some characteristic or behavior.  For these, the task force found that (with substitutions) the success criteria apply to non-web documents fairly straightforwardly.   The task force has not yet been able to work out how these three success criteria dealing with "sets of web pages" or "multiplel " web page  would apply to
16:47:35 <greggvanderheiden> software.
16:47:44 <korn> "The task force does not yet have guidance for how to apply these to software."
16:48:43 <korn> The task force does not yet have guidance for how to apply these three remainign success criteria to software.
16:48:43 <greggvanderheiden> "The task force does not yet have guidance for how to apply these three SC to software."
16:49:08 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]
16:49:31 <greggvanderheiden> The task force does not yet have guidance for how to apply these three SC in a software context
16:49:37 <korn1> korn1 has joined #wcag2ict
16:49:49 <greggvanderheiden> The task force does not yet have guidance for how to apply these three SC in a software context
16:49:50 <greggvanderheiden> [10:49am]
16:51:02 <greggvanderheiden> The Task Force found that the majority of success criteria from WCAG 2.0 can apply to non-Web documents and software with no or only minimal changes. Specifically, of the thirty-eight Level A and AA success criteria, twenty-six did not include any web related terms and apply directly as written and as described in the "Intent" sections from the updated “Understanding WCAG 2.0”. Half of these twenty-six applied without any additional
16:51:02 <greggvanderheiden> notes. Half applied as written but additional notes were also provided for assist in applying them to either or both non-web documents and software.
16:51:03 <greggvanderheiden> Of the remaining twelve success criteria, the Task Force found that nine of them they apply as written when replacing certain web specific terms or phrases like "Web page(s)" with non-web terms or phrases like “non-web document(s) and software" or “for non-Web documents and software that use markup languages, in such a way that…etc.”   Additional notes were also provided to assist in the application of these.
16:51:04 <greggvanderheiden> The remaining three success criteria  apply in situations when "a set of web pages", or "multiple web pages" share some characteristic or behavior.  For these, the task force found that (with substitutions) the success criteria apply to non-web documents fairly straightforwardly.  The task force does not yet have guidance for how to apply these three success criteria in a software context
16:52:02 <BBailey> +1
16:52:11 <David> +1
16:52:15 <Andi> +1
16:52:22 <korn1> +1
16:52:27 <Mike_P> +1
16:54:09 <Andi> RESOLUTION: Accept "PROPOSAL for final paragraphs in INTRO  FROM WCAG2ICT 2012-11-13meeting" at https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/cross-cutting-issues-and-notes/remaining-3-scs
16:55:00 <Andi> rrsagent, make minutes
16:55:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/13-wcag2ict-minutes.html Andi
16:55:03 <Zakim> -Kiran_Kaja
16:55:06 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
16:55:08 <Zakim> -Bruce_Bailey
16:55:08 <Zakim> -Judy.a
16:55:09 <Zakim> -Andi_Snow_Weaver
16:55:09 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
16:55:10 <Zakim> -MaryJo
16:55:10 <Zakim> -Gregg_Vanderheiden
16:55:17 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
16:55:20 <korn1> by al
16:55:25 <korn1> korn1 has left #wcag2ict
16:55:32 <Mike_P> Mike_P has left #wcag2ict
16:58:59 <Andi> Andi has joined #wcag2ict
17:00:05 <Zakim> -Judy
17:05:06 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, Mike_Pluke, in WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM
17:05:08 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has ended
17:05:08 <Zakim> Attendees were Kiran_Kaja, Bruce_Bailey, Andi_Snow_Weaver, David_MacDonald, MaryJo, Alex_Li, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Mike_Pluke, Janina_Sajka, Judy, Peter_Korn, [IPcaller]