14:44:03 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
14:44:03 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/09-wcag2ict-irc
14:44:05 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:44:05 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #wcag2ict
14:44:07 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2428
14:44:07 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM scheduled to start in 16 minutes
14:44:08 <trackbot> Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
14:44:08 <trackbot> Date: 09 November 2012
14:45:10 <Andi> agenda+ Final 3 (take 2), the FrontMatter, and the Introduction https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/F3FMI/results
14:45:38 <Andi> agenda+ Back to the additional SC for Closed Functionality, starting with 1.4.2 Audio Control https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/OCT112012/results
14:45:59 <Andi> agenda+ Action Items http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG2ICT-TF/track/actions/open
14:46:14 <Andi> chair: Andi_Snow-Weaver
14:46:26 <Andi> regrets: Alex_Li
14:56:56 <Judy> Judy has joined #wcag2ict
14:58:36 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has now started
14:58:43 <Zakim> +Gregg_Vanderheiden
14:59:51 <Loic> Loic has joined #wcag2ict
14:59:51 <Mike_P> Mike_P has joined #wcag2ict
15:00:07 <Zakim> +??P15
15:00:23 <BBailey> BBailey has joined #wcag2ict
15:00:33 <Zakim> +??P17
15:01:14 <Loic> Zakim, ??P17 is Loic_Martinez
15:01:14 <Zakim> +Loic_Martinez; got it
15:01:24 <Zakim> +Andi_Snow_Weaver
15:01:41 <Zakim> +Bruce_Bailey
15:01:54 <Andi> zakim, ??P15 is Mike_Pluke
15:01:54 <Zakim> +Mike_Pluke; got it
15:02:35 <janina> janina has joined #wcag2ict
15:02:43 <BBailey> zakim, i am bruce
15:02:43 <Zakim> ok, BBailey, I now associate you with Bruce_Bailey
15:03:00 <Zakim> +??P25
15:03:15 <Andi> zakim, ??P25 is Janina_Sajka
15:03:15 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
15:03:52 <Andi> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:03:52 <Zakim> On the phone I see Gregg_Vanderheiden, Mike_Pluke, Loic_Martinez, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Bruce_Bailey, Janina_Sajka
15:04:13 <Zakim> +Judy
15:04:33 <korn> korn has joined #wcag2ict
15:04:58 <Zakim> +[Oracle]
15:05:09 <korn> Zakim, Oracle has Peter_Korn
15:05:09 <Zakim> +Peter_Korn; got it
15:05:18 <Andi> scribe: Andi_Snow-Weaver
15:05:22 <Andi> scribenick: Andi
15:06:09 <Andi> topic: report from WCAG meeting yesterday
15:06:59 <Zakim> -Gregg_Vanderheiden
15:07:19 <Zakim> +Gregg_Vanderheiden
15:07:55 <korn> Zakim, who is talking?
15:08:09 <Zakim> korn, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: Gregg_Vanderheiden (33%), Andi_Snow_Weaver (25%)
15:08:48 <korn> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/cross-cutting-issues-and-notes/remaining-3-scs
15:09:44 <greggvanderheiden> greggvanderheiden has joined #wcag2ict
15:12:14 <Andi> zakim, next item
15:12:14 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Final 3 (take 2), the FrontMatter, and the Introduction https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/F3FMI/results" taken up [from Andi]
15:14:52 <Judy> here's an example of the typical Note title format
15:14:54 <Judy> http://www.w3.org/TR/turingtest/
15:15:10 <Judy> it already includes "W3C Working Group Note" in the line below the title
15:15:26 <Judy> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG-TECHS/
15:15:30 <Andi> q+
15:15:53 <Andi> ack andi
15:15:56 <Zakim> +??P9
15:16:21 <Andi> topic: Frontmatter
15:16:30 <Andi> Discussion of title
15:16:41 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:16:41 <Zakim> On the phone I see Mike_Pluke, Loic_Martinez, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Bruce_Bailey, Janina_Sajka, Judy, [Oracle], Gregg_Vanderheiden, ??P9
15:16:43 <Zakim> [Oracle] has Peter_Korn
15:16:55 <Andi> including "working group note" in the title would be redundant since it appears right after the title
15:16:55 <janina> zakim, drop Janina_Sajka
15:16:55 <Zakim> Janina_Sajka is being disconnected
15:16:57 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
15:17:52 <Andi> when the document is referenced, usually only the title appears
15:18:38 <Andi> the "working group note" text can be included when the document is referenced
15:19:14 <korn> q+
15:20:17 <Andi> regrets+ Kiran_Kaja
15:21:27 <korn> q-
15:23:00 <Judy> looking currently at this section: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/F3FMI/results#xq2
15:24:11 <Judy> "[]Working Group Note on']] how WCAG 2.0 may apply to non-web ICT context"
15:25:20 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
15:25:25 <Judy> (""How WCAG 2.0 may apply to non-Web ICT", or "How WCAG 2.0 may apply in the context of non-Web ICT." However, I am wondering if this wording may under-describe the outcome of the TF's work, since consensus was reached among TF and WG participants across a great majority of provisions.")
15:26:12 <korn> "Guidance on where and how to apply WCAG 2.0 to non-web ICT" ???
15:26:36 <David> David has joined #wcag2ict
15:26:53 <korn> q+
15:27:50 <Zakim> +??P25
15:28:10 <janina> zakim, ??P25 is Janina_Sajka
15:28:10 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
15:28:50 <korn> Or "Guidance on how to apply..."
15:29:23 <Loic> Or "Guidance on the applicability of WCAG 2.0 to Non-Web ICT" ?
15:30:36 <Andi> concern is misunderstanding this as a standard or a recommendation that this is something that the W3C recommends
15:30:52 <greggvanderheiden> "ing" in the name means it is ongoing.    If you have a doc title -- it usually is about what the person would do who was picking it up.
15:30:54 <Andi> ack korn
15:31:10 <greggvanderheiden> if "interpreting" is in the title - then it implies that the user would be doing this.
15:31:36 <greggvanderheiden> the user would be  "Applying" not interpreting
15:31:57 <korn> "Guidance on the application of WCAG 2.0 to non-web ICT"
15:32:15 <korn> "Advice on..."  ?
15:32:32 <Andi> "interpretation" rather than "interpreting" might work
15:32:39 <Zakim> -??P9
15:33:11 <janina> +q to guidance
15:34:24 <Andi> "Guidance on Applying WCAG 2.0 to non-web ICT"
15:34:45 <Mike_P> +1
15:34:47 <Judy> Guidance on Applying WCAG 2.0 to Non-Web ICT
15:35:05 <Loic> What we have inside the document is "Additional guidance when applying to Non-Web Documents and Software"
15:35:15 <Loic> q+
15:35:38 <janina> q-
15:35:44 <Judy> Additional Guidance on Applying WCAG 2.0 to Non-Web Documents and Software
15:36:06 <Loic> q-
15:36:09 <korn> Guidance on the application of WCAG 2.0 to non-web ICT
15:36:09 <korn> Advice on the application of WCAG 2.0 to non-web ICT
15:36:09 <korn> Guidance on Applying WCAG 2.0 to non-web ICT
15:36:09 <korn> Guidance on how to apply WCAG 2.0 to non-web ICT
15:36:09 <korn> Guidance when applying WCAG 2.0 to non-web ICT
15:36:09 <korn> Guidance for applying WCAG 2.0 to non-web ICT
15:36:31 <korn> (just trying to gather them all together to view them)
15:36:55 <Mike_P> Still like: Guidance on Applying WCAG 2.0 to Non-Web ICT
15:37:33 <janina> +1 to guidance on applying
15:37:38 <Loic> +1
15:37:45 <Andi> +1
15:37:47 <greggvanderheiden> +1  to  Guidance on Applying
15:37:47 <BBailey> +1
15:37:54 <David> +1
15:37:58 <korn> +1
15:38:00 <Judy> +1
15:38:53 <Andi> Survey title "Guidance on Applying WCAG 2.0 to non-Web ICT
15:39:37 <Andi> s/Survey title "Guidance on Applying WCAG 2.0 to non-Web ICT/For Tuesday, survey title "Guidance on Applying WCAG 2.0 to non-Web ICT"/
15:43:14 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
15:43:39 <Zakim> +??P9
15:44:11 <Zakim> -??P9
15:44:28 <Zakim> +??P9
15:45:00 <Zakim> -??P9
15:45:23 <korn> q+
15:46:09 <korn> q-
15:49:44 <Andi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-comments-wcag20/2012Sep/0003.html
15:53:03 <Judy> Already there: "This draft includes changes made in response to comments received by 7 September 2012 in response to the earlier call for public review of the 27 July 2012 First Public Working Draft of this document."
15:53:03 <Judy> Add this? "Not all comments received have yet been processed."
15:54:49 <Zakim> +??P9
15:55:19 <janina> zakim, ??P9 is Janina_Sajka
15:55:19 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
15:55:42 <greggvanderheiden_> greggvanderheiden_ has joined #wcag2ict
15:56:56 <Judy> Judy suggests this wording: ""Not all comments received have yet been processed in this updated draft."
15:57:32 <korn> +1
15:57:39 <Mike_P> +1
15:57:45 <Andi> +1
15:57:47 <BBailey> +1
15:57:50 <Loic> +1
15:57:52 <janina> +1
15:57:56 <Judy> +1
15:59:17 <BBailey> The MSFT are now public facing
15:59:19 <BBailey> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag2ict-comments/2012Nov/0000.html
15:59:55 <BBailey> s/MSFT are/MSFT comments are/
16:00:14 <Judy> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/F3FMI/results#xq3
16:00:31 <greggvanderheiden> "The task force has not yet  been able to complete the comment processing"
16:04:10 <Judy> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/F3FMI/results#xq3
16:05:48 <korn> The sentence I think most in need of terse-ification is about 3/5ths of the way into the last paragraph:  "While web pages are clearly delineated items on the web (each has a  distinct URL) and concept of a “set” where the items are closely related  to each other and link back and forth using URLs, the task force had a  difficult time finding examples of a set of software where software  programs were distinct but were tied together in such an integ[CUT]
16:06:01 <korn> q+
16:10:13 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
16:10:46 <Zakim> +??P9
16:11:05 <janina> zakim, ??P9 is Janina_Sajka
16:11:05 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
16:12:13 <Andi> RESOLUTION: Accept Proposal 2-2 (minus the title) for Frontmatter
16:12:14 <korn> +1
16:14:58 <Andi> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/home/introduction-to-wcag2ict-application-note/general-introduction-text
16:16:36 <Andi> RESOLUTION: Accept Proposal #3 for the Introduction
16:16:55 <Andi> zakim, next item
16:16:55 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Andi
16:17:34 <Andi> q+
16:17:40 <Andi> ack andi
16:17:45 <korn> q-
16:17:45 <Andi> ack korn
16:18:01 <Andi> zakim, next item
16:18:01 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Back to the additional SC for Closed Functionality, starting with 1.4.2 Audio Control https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/OCT112012/results" taken up [from Andi]
16:18:57 <greggvanderheiden> that should be fixed.
16:18:57 <Andi> topic: 1.4.2 Audio Control
16:19:39 <Andi> could add it to the list but have text that says what you have to do for closed products
16:19:51 <Mike_P> q+
16:19:53 <greggvanderheiden> This is critical -- and is just as true for closed as for open
16:20:16 <BBailey> q+
16:20:33 <Andi> M376 has equivalent provision for closed functionality
16:20:36 <Andi> ack mike
16:21:35 <greggvanderheiden> I am not sure why it needs to be in the list -- or why it is not possible or true for closed produts
16:22:02 <greggvanderheiden> but it IS applicable as written
16:22:24 <greggvanderheiden> so your phrase would not apply to it
16:22:47 <greggvanderheiden> we would say more than Screen readers in intent if  intent would cover closed products
16:22:48 <greggvanderheiden> OK
16:23:00 <Andi> ack bruce
16:23:13 <Andi> no consensus either to add it to the list or that it shouldn't be on the list
16:23:50 <Mike_P> 5.1.3.10	Non-interfering audio output Where auditory output is provided as non-visual access to closed functionality, the ICT shall not automatically play, at the same time, any interfering audible output that lasts longer than three seconds.
16:24:00 <korn> q+
16:24:22 <Andi> ack korn
16:24:32 <greggvanderheiden> add to list.   For example if a kiosk is all done in 36 point type -- it would all be much larger than  200 percent of  10 or 12 point text  without any magnifications
16:24:53 <greggvanderheiden> better to have text for this in closed functionality
16:25:25 <BBailey> zakim, mute me
16:25:25 <Zakim> Bruce_Bailey should now be muted
16:25:38 <greggvanderheiden> oops thought we had moved on to next one after your comment.  sorry.    now you have advanced notes.
16:26:11 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
16:26:16 <Andi> topic: 1.4.4 Resize Text
16:26:35 <Mike_P> q+
16:26:51 <BBailey> zakim, unmute me
16:26:51 <Zakim> Bruce_Bailey should no longer be muted
16:28:51 <greggvanderheiden_> greggvanderheiden_ has joined #wcag2ict
16:28:51 <Andi> ack mike
16:29:21 <Andi> M376 says this is not applicable as written - provides a replacement for closed functionality
16:30:02 <greggvanderheiden> greggvanderheiden has joined #wcag2ict
16:31:53 <Andi> action: Mike to work with Peter to develop some additional text for closed functionality that explains the issues that need to be addressed in closed functionality without wandering into specifying a standard
16:31:53 <trackbot> Created ACTION-78 - Work with Peter to develop some additional text for closed functionality that explains the issues that need to be addressed in closed functionality without wandering into specifying a standard [on Mike Pluke - due 2012-11-16].
16:32:43 <Andi> RESOLUTION: Add 1.4.4 Resize Text to the Closed Functionality list
16:33:35 <Zakim> -Gregg_Vanderheiden
16:33:37 <Zakim> -Judy
16:33:38 <greggvanderheiden_> greggvanderheiden_ has joined #wcag2ict
16:33:39 <Zakim> -Bruce_Bailey
16:33:39 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
16:33:40 <Zakim> -Loic_Martinez
16:33:40 <Zakim> -Andi_Snow_Weaver
16:33:42 <Zakim> -[Oracle]
16:33:44 <Mike_P> Mike_P has left #wcag2ict
16:33:56 <Zakim> -Mike_Pluke
16:33:57 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has ended
16:33:57 <Zakim> Attendees were Gregg_Vanderheiden, Loic_Martinez, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Bruce_Bailey, Mike_Pluke, Janina_Sajka, Judy, Peter_Korn, David_MacDonald
16:36:01 <Andi> rrsagent, make minutes
16:36:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/09-wcag2ict-minutes.html Andi
16:44:43 <greggvanderheiden_> greggvanderheiden_ has joined #wcag2ict
16:48:06 <greggvanderheiden> greggvanderheiden has joined #wcag2ict
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