15:58:23 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
15:58:23 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/08-html-a11y-irc
15:58:25 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:58:25 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-a11y
15:58:27 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
15:58:27 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 58 minutes ago
15:58:28 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
15:58:28 <trackbot> Date: 08 November 2012
15:58:34 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:58:35 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has not yet started, janina
15:58:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, janina, MikeSmith, Stevef, MichaelC, trackbot, hober
15:58:50 <janina> zakim, this will be 2119
15:58:51 <Zakim> ok, janina; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 58 minutes ago
15:59:00 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:59:01 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has not yet started, janina
15:59:03 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, janina, MikeSmith, Stevef, MichaelC, trackbot, hober
15:59:23 <janina> zakim, this will be WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)
15:59:23 <Zakim> ok, janina, I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM already started
15:59:33 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:59:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see ??P4
15:59:42 <janina> zakim, ??P4 is Janina_Sajka
15:59:42 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
15:59:51 <Zakim> +??P9
15:59:54 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P9 is Michael_Cooper
15:59:54 <Zakim> +Michael_Cooper; got it
16:00:25 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:00:29 <jcraig> jcraig has joined #html-a11y
16:00:44 <MichaelC> zakim, Ipcaller is Steve_Faulkner
16:00:45 <Zakim> +Steve_Faulkner; got it
16:00:51 <Judy> Judy has joined #html-a11y
16:01:16 <Zakim> +Judy
16:01:21 <IanPouncey> IanPouncey has joined #html-a11y
16:01:30 <Zakim> +John_Foliot
16:01:32 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
16:01:50 <janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference
16:01:50 <janina> Chair: Janina_Sajka
16:01:50 <janina> agenda+ New Task Force Co-Facilitators http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Nov/0002.html
16:01:53 <janina> agenda+ Lyon Debrief
16:01:55 <janina> agenda+ Longdesc Extension http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-proposals/raw-file/b63325998cc1/longdesc1/longdesc.html
16:01:58 <janina> agenda+ Other extensions we expect?
16:02:01 <janina> agenda+ Who is in the TF and are we missing people?
16:02:03 <janina> agenda+ Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; AAPI Mapping; Text
16:02:06 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
16:02:08 <janina> agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
16:02:11 <janina> agenda+ Identify Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
16:02:11 <JF> JF has joined #html-a11y
16:02:14 <janina> agenda+ be done
16:02:23 <David> David has joined #html-a11y
16:02:50 <JF> zakim, who's here?
16:02:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see Janina_Sajka, Michael_Cooper, Steve_Faulkner, Judy, John_Foliot, David_MacDonald
16:02:53 <Zakim> On IRC I see David, JF, IanPouncey, Judy, jcraig, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, MikeSmith, Stevef, MichaelC, trackbot, hober
16:02:59 <chaals> chaals has joined #html-a11y
16:03:11 <jcraig> Zakim, code?
16:03:11 <Zakim> the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), jcraig
16:03:22 <Zakim> +James_Craig
16:03:35 <Zakim> +??P10
16:03:46 <IanPouncey> Zakim, ??P10 is me
16:03:46 <Zakim> +IanPouncey; got it
16:03:59 <Stevef> welcome Ian!
16:04:03 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:04:21 <chaals> zakim, [ipcaller is me]
16:04:21 <Zakim> +me]; got it
16:04:26 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:04:31 <chaals> zakim, me] is really me
16:04:31 <Zakim> +chaals; got it
16:05:09 <Stevef> JS: congrats all around
16:05:49 <LjW> LjW has joined #html-a11y
16:06:00 <chaals> zakim, who is here?
16:06:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see Janina_Sajka, Michael_Cooper, Steve_Faulkner, Judy, John_Foliot, David_MacDonald, James_Craig, IanPouncey, chaals, [IPcaller]
16:06:02 <Zakim> On IRC I see LjW, chaals, David, JF, IanPouncey, Judy, jcraig, Zakim, RRSAgent, janina, MikeSmith, Stevef, MichaelC, trackbot, hober
16:06:40 <Stevef> JS: any questions about plan 2014 or new arrangements
16:07:11 <Stevef> JS: Lyon debrief some accessibility topics raised during face 2 face
16:07:39 <JF> scribe: JF
16:07:55 <JF> SteveF: not much discussed around accessibility at the Lyon F2F
16:08:38 <JF> SteveF: one topic covered was the outstanding Formal Objections - two including the Alt Text document and the normative state
16:08:48 <JF> believes one of the objections has gone away
16:09:24 <JF> Lachlan hunt objected and suggested that it should be suggestive and not normative
16:09:39 <JF> seems there will probably be a poll around that
16:09:42 <Judy> q+
16:10:09 <janina>  q?
16:10:15 <janina> ack ju
16:10:26 <Stevef> scribe
16:10:46 <JF> *yours
16:10:59 <JF> s/*yours//
16:12:02 <Stevef> JB: talked to PLH, ownership of the alt text document still needs to be determined, what needs to happen re alt text in HTML5 needs to be resolved
16:12:43 <Stevef> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Nov/0048.html
16:13:10 <Stevef> JS: what is in html5 on alt was not discussed
16:13:33 <Judy> q+
16:14:25 <Stevef> JS: we can still move forward with plans
16:14:31 <janina> q?
16:14:35 <janina> ack ju
16:15:17 <Stevef> JB: not correct on rec/note
16:17:10 <chaals> s//\/ or/
16:17:33 <chaals> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:17:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/08-html-a11y-minutes.html chaals
16:18:04 <JF> scribe: JF
16:18:20 <JF> SteveF: also presented the idea of the <main> attribute
16:18:28 <janina> q?
16:18:46 <Judy> s/not correct on rec/not correct on/
16:18:58 <JF> general impression was that while nobody was jumping up and down, there appeard to be support, and Steve got some useful feedback
16:19:29 <JF> zakim, take up next item
16:19:29 <Zakim> agendum 1. "New Task Force Co-Facilitators http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Nov/0002.html" taken up [from janina]
16:19:36 <JF> zakim, close item 1
16:19:36 <Zakim> agendum 1, New Task Force Co-Facilitators http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Nov/0002.html, closed
16:19:38 <Zakim> I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:19:38 <Zakim> 2. Lyon Debrief [from janina]
16:19:42 <JF> zakim, take up item 2
16:19:42 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Lyon Debrief" taken up [from janina]
16:19:49 <JF> zakim, close item 2
16:19:49 <Zakim> agendum 2, Lyon Debrief, closed
16:19:50 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:19:50 <Zakim> 3. Longdesc Extension http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-proposals/raw-file/b63325998cc1/longdesc1/longdesc.html [from janina]
16:19:50 <Zakim> -James_Craig
16:19:53 <Stevef> JS: we have a proposed extension spcification - longdesc spec
16:19:58 <jcraig> jcraig has left #html-a11y
16:19:59 <JF> zakim, take up nesxt item
16:19:59 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take up nesxt item', JF
16:20:07 <JF> zakim, take up next item
16:20:07 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Longdesc Extension http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/html-proposals/raw-file/b63325998cc1/longdesc1/longdesc.html" taken up [from janina]
16:20:38 <JF> Q+
16:21:17 <Stevef> JS: remind everyone in plan 2014 that basic functionality is covered but not get in the way of those that want to move on newer features on this subject
16:21:19 <Judy> s/not correct on note/most important difference between Note and Rec is informativity vs normativity; some Notes are indeed stabilized snapshots following iterations of Working Drafts, but Recs are more set in stone.
16:22:00 <Stevef> CMN: basic spec lays out what longdesc does on img elements, tries to follow the exisiting implementation, essentially same as HTML4
16:23:06 <Stevef> CMN: idea of spec is not to do anything new or clever to get the spec through the process, go through to CR on basis of current implementations browsers/AT/ etc
16:23:26 <IanPouncey> IanPouncey has joined #html-a11y
16:23:59 <Stevef> CMN: if anyone wants to do something better then they can, until/if this occurs longdesc may be dropped
16:24:16 <janina> q?
16:24:22 <Stevef> CMN: undertakes to write test cases
16:24:32 <janina> ack jf
16:24:56 <Stevef> JF: NVDA will now support longdesc attribute
16:25:20 <David> q+
16:25:23 <Judy> q+
16:25:35 <Stevef> JS: question to group is whether this spec is sufficient ot be a first public working draft
16:26:06 <Stevef> DMc: pointing to info in page is new?
16:26:22 <chaals> ack dav
16:26:29 <Stevef> CMN: has been specced this way originally
16:26:58 <Stevef> DMc: has anyone else ever seen this implemented?
16:27:16 <chaals> ack ju
16:27:16 <chaals> ack judy
16:28:21 <Stevef> JB: thanks chaals for extension spec, I have a few thoughts, succint use cases and requirments is good, has not looked at carefully yet, suggest everybody takes a good look and review it
16:28:24 <IanPouncey> IanPouncey has joined #html-a11y
16:28:56 <Stevef> JB: encourage all to read and understand the a11y taskforce provisions in plan 2014
16:29:21 <Stevef> http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/html5-2014-plan.html
16:30:16 <chaals> q+ to say I don;t think the spec should look at predicting future work.
16:30:18 <janina> q?
16:30:20 <Stevef> JB: is it worth saying in spec that this may end up co-existing in ARIA 1.1 (for example)?
16:31:05 <Stevef> JB: so people looking at it will have a better understanding of possible futire plans
16:31:10 <janina> ack ch
16:31:10 <Zakim> chaals, you wanted to say I don;t think the spec should look at predicting future work.
16:31:21 <Stevef> JB: should extra informative links be added
16:31:26 <Judy> q+
16:32:06 <Stevef> CMN:  don't think its needed, inofrmative references doesnt feel strongly either way
16:32:50 <Stevef> JB: I don't have impression that any understanding that taskforce will be doing with longer description mechanisms in general
16:33:22 <janina> q?
16:33:27 <janina> ack ju
16:33:30 <Stevef> JB: based on conversations it may be useful to add information about future long desc mechanisms
16:34:03 <chaals> q+
16:34:15 <Stevef> JB: is there anything that needs to be said on how longdesc will play well with other long description mechanisms
16:34:41 <Stevef> JS: is it necessary to resolve all this before FPWD?
16:34:42 <janina> q?
16:34:47 <janina> ack ch
16:35:31 <Stevef> CMN: shoudl we put something in spec, should we say it plays nicely etc, we will have to start anticipating other mechanisms
16:36:03 <Stevef> CMN: prediciting afuture that might come true, any future feature should cope with legacy longdesc
16:36:29 <janina> q?
16:36:42 <Stevef> CMN: adding in spec will not change opinions on what taskforce thinks on mechanisms
16:36:45 <JF> Q+
16:37:27 <Stevef> JB: would encourage taskforce chairs to try to communicate as needed when we get to publication discussion
16:37:41 <Stevef> JF: agrees with chaals
16:37:51 <chaals> s/prediciting afuture/I think it's unnecessary work to try predicting/
16:38:12 <Stevef> JF: the way we communicate around this doc is important
16:38:17 <Judy> s/would encourage/doesn't feel the need to press the point of including the intent in the spec itself, but would encourage/
16:39:14 <Stevef> JS: homework assignment to taskforce is the doc ready for FPWD, by agreement when publsihed the obsolete defintion in HTML5 goes away
16:39:49 <Stevef> JS: so issue for a number of institutions goes away
16:40:13 <Judy> q+
16:40:20 <JF> ack JF
16:40:28 <Stevef> JS: patent and test process need to run, in meantime improvements to spec can occur
16:40:49 <Stevef> JS: propose that we as a taskforce can make that decision by next thursday
16:41:21 <JF> +1 to JS
16:41:26 <Stevef> JS: call for consensus is a full week to decide on moving to publish
16:41:32 <chaals> ack judy
16:41:32 <janina> ack ju
16:42:15 <Stevef> JB: the context is important for people to understand provision in plan 2014 for 'willful violations' of HTML5
16:43:23 <Stevef> JB: status label on spec is good for review by taskforce perhaps wait another week for CFC
16:44:43 <IanPouncey> IanPouncey has joined #html-a11y
16:45:27 <Stevef> JB:walk the decision process very carefully, given that part of the process involves agreement by both groups PF and HTML, if there is an objection that comes up in HTML WG then we should make sure pople are aware
16:45:32 <Stevef> q+
16:46:07 <Stevef> JS: may need support staff to help with spec verbiage
16:46:31 <MikeSmith> Zakim, call Mike
16:46:31 <Zakim> ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
16:46:32 <Zakim> +Mike
16:47:50 <Stevef> JS: if we can get people to do due diligence this week we could start consensus clock next week
16:48:17 <Stevef> JS: will take action to inform HTML WG and PF
16:49:06 <Stevef> action: janina2 inform HTML WG and PF about inpending CFC on longdesc spec
16:49:06 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find janina2. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/users>.
16:49:38 <Stevef> action: janina inform HTML WG and PF about inpending CFC on longdesc spec
16:49:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-145 - Inform HTML WG and PF about inpending CFC on longdesc spec [on Janina Sajka - due 2012-11-15].
16:50:46 <Stevef> JS: issues 194 and 203 about long text descriptions for media, not resolved before plan 2014
16:50:47 <Judy> s/given that part of the process involves agreement by both groups PF and HTML/given that Task Force publication of an extension requires approval by both PFWG and HTML WG/
16:50:47 <Judy> s/then we should make sure pople are aware/then we should make sure that people are aware, since the HTML WG Co-Chairs would expect that objection to have been brought through the TF/
16:52:19 <Zakim> -Mike
16:52:20 <Stevef> JS: there is an accessibility requirment to support transcripts, but need resolution, one path forward is to create 2 extension specs on current options and put them on table (for issue 194)
16:52:32 <JF> Q+
16:52:42 <Stevef> ack me
16:52:59 <Stevef> JS: talking about issue 203
16:53:10 <chaals> q+
16:53:14 <Stevef> JS: are there other things to work on?
16:53:28 <chaals> ack jf
16:53:37 <Stevef> JS: any questions around 194 and 203
16:53:52 <janina> q?
16:54:48 <Stevef> JF: re issue 203 one of the things that emerged was that we could also use longdesc to satisfy requirement, suggest longdesc for solving this
16:56:31 <Stevef> CMN: plans to take action itme to review accesskey, suggests not to gate issue 203 on longdesc, shouldinstead put 2 possible approaches we have as specs, then if one of those gets implemented then thats good
16:57:00 <Stevef> JF: we don;t have any proposals for 203
16:57:43 <janina> q?
16:57:56 <chaals> ack me
16:58:01 <Stevef> CMN: prepared to wait until we have mechanisms ike londesc in place, don;t want to muddy issue at this time
16:58:51 <Stevef> JS: is there more discussion? thanks chaals for taking up accesskey
16:59:07 <JF> s/CMN: prepared to wait/JF: prepared to wait/
17:00:25 <Zakim> -John_Foliot
17:00:26 <Stevef> JS: we are not only given responsibility to work on stuff but also recruit people so we don't have people asking for review after discussion has occured
17:00:52 <Stevef> JS: we need to spread word that taskforce is back at work
17:01:06 <Judy> q+
17:02:41 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
17:02:42 <IanPouncey> Thanks all, looking forward to working with you.
17:02:42 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
17:02:46 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
17:02:47 <Judy> JB: important to encourage broad stakeholder participation, and good to have more discussion next few meetings on this
17:02:48 <Zakim> -chaals
17:02:54 <Stevef> zakim, bye
17:02:54 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-a11y
17:02:55 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Janina_Sajka, Michael_Cooper, Steve_Faulkner, Judy, John_Foliot, David_MacDonald, James_Craig, IanPouncey, [IPcaller], chaals, Mike
17:03:21 <Stevef> RRS agent, make minutes
17:03:39 <Stevef> RRSagent, make minutes
17:03:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/08-html-a11y-minutes.html Stevef
17:16:13 <IanPouncey> IanPouncey has joined #html-a11y
17:23:00 <Judy> Judy has left #html-a11y
17:27:13 <janina> janina has changed the topic to: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference; Thursday 15 November at 16:00Z for 60 minutes
17:33:52 <hober> oh, there was a call today? i thought sam cancelled the calls.
17:38:41 <MikeSmith> MikeSmith has joined #html-a11y
17:40:36 <chaals> cancelled the HTML call
17:40:45 <MikeSmith_> MikeSmith_ has joined #html-a11y
18:22:47 <Stevef> Stevef has joined #html-a11y
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