15:59:18 RRSAgent has joined #hcls 15:59:18 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/11/06-hcls-irc 15:59:21 Zakim, this is hcls 15:59:21 ok, ericP; that matches SW_HCLS()11:00AM 15:59:29 +EricP 15:59:52 + +1.613.293.aaaa 15:59:54 matthias_samwald has joined #hcls 15:59:54 Bosse has joined #HCLS 16:00:23 Zakim, +1.613.293.aaaa is michel 16:00:23 +michel; got it 16:00:29 egombocz has joined #HCLS 16:00:33 michel has changed the topic to: #hcls W3C HCLS – General Meeting 16:00:38 Meeting: W3C HCLS – General Meeting 16:00:43 +??P12 16:00:44 Chair: Michel Dumontier 16:01:12 + +1.510.705.aabb 16:01:15 Zakim, ??P12 is rboyce 16:01:15 +rboyce; got it 16:01:25 +[IPcaller] 16:01:27 scribenick bobP 16:01:44 Zakim, +1.510.705.aabb egombez 16:01:44 I don't understand '+1.510.705.aabb egombez', ericP 16:01:46 Zakim, +1.510.705.aabb is egombez 16:01:46 +egombez; got it 16:01:49 boycer has joined #HCLS 16:02:02 Zakim, [IPcaller] is matthias_samwald 16:02:02 +matthias_samwald; got it 16:02:09 Zakim, who is here? 16:02:09 On the phone I see Bob_Powers, EricP, michel, rboyce, egombez, matthias_samwald 16:02:11 On IRC I see boycer, egombocz, Bosse, matthias_samwald, RRSAgent, Zakim, michel, bobP, MacTed, ratnesh, egonw, ericP 16:02:20 Zakim, rboyce is really boycer 16:02:20 +boycer; got it 16:02:43 Zakim, egombez is really egombocz, 16:02:43 +egombocz,; got it 16:02:48 Zakim, egombocz, 16:02:48 I don't understand 'egombocz,', ericP 16:03:15 Zakim, egombocz, is really egombocz 16:03:15 +egombocz; got it 16:03:26 + +46.7.08.13.aacc 16:03:42 + +31.88.445.aadd 16:03:43 Zakim, +46.7.08.13.aacc is bosse 16:03:43 +bosse; got it 16:03:57 Zakim, +31.88.445.aadd is mscottm 16:03:57 +mscottm; got it 16:04:20 mscottm has joined #hcls 16:04:34 Michel: First thing, acknowledge that group composition is changing 16:04:59 ... over last year was experiment: three areas, two task forces for each 16:05:00 +??P3 16:05:18 ... but onerous and confusing (a little) 16:05:25 Zakim, ??P3 is ratnesh 16:05:25 +ratnesh; got it 16:05:44 ... So...whether to restructure 16:06:03 ... Matthias would like to merge Pgx and CDS 16:06:54 ... suggesting to go to three task forces: LS, PGx, health care 16:07:36 Sounds very good, won't impact participation. 16:08:22 ericP: COI has been happening outside of HCLS, it's me and Charlie 16:08:47 I think, it's a good suggestion - it will increase participation in my opinion as it condenses the number of meetings, and there is some logical / thematic overlap 16:08:57 ... CDISC work may bring in more pharmas to to clinical trials discussion for calls 16:09:15 ... otherwise, we can have more conversations, spawn calls when we need them 16:10:27 Scott: +1 to fewer meetings; there was interest in joining HCLS, simpler to merge, plus participation will go up 16:10:55 ... always open, but not perceived that way: Wiki page should be Step1, step 2, step 3 16:11:28 ... if you call in at wrong time discussion will seem opaque 16:11:47 ericP: Not sure we get more participation with fewer meetings 16:12:02 ... need action items and public humiliation :D 16:12:14 ... items and tracking and meeting due dates 16:13:05 ... also, Task force leads do most of the work; we need fresh blood, motivated to find people who get our problems 16:13:36 Michel: Identifying what the tasks are; and how to encourage people to take up tasks 16:14:09 ... always have talked about getting funding, but w/in our own research group for our own tasks 16:14:26 ... for participant: What do they want to get out of it? 16:14:44 ... drive conversation thru level of commitment, or go for more resources? 16:15:03 ... alignment of activity and participant is the issue 16:15:39 ericP: +1 to action items at particular times 16:15:50 Michel: Actionable action items 16:16:20 Rich: Attracted to calls b/c drug interations, linking w clinical relevance etc 16:16:41 ... +1 to restructuring according to use cases 16:17:15 ... there is overlap between what HCLS does and my goals 16:17:41 ... value is collaborating with people 16:18:05 Michel: HCLS has fostered new collaborations 16:18:41 Rich: It has been useful to have artifacts 16:19:18 Michel: Agree. Major role of linked life data group, extending our hand to other communities 16:19:43 ... a natural role for w3c and hcls to get up-take in other communities 16:19:59 I found that a lodd group was easier to work for/with, as the tasks were simpler, and very explicit 16:20:21 use cases are much harder to solve, and practically converted into actions points 16:20:23 Ratnesh: Specific task leaders, at the end they have a recommendation; who owns the task? 16:20:30 the action points tend to take a lot more time 16:20:51 ericP: Reason these are productive is that the chair rules with an iron fist. 16:21:09 ... comes back to Michel's point if ID-ing action items 16:21:36 ... paid professional time for WG, but here people work on the margins of their time 16:21:54 ... how much you can expect of somebody 16:22:23 ... tasks that are near HCLS could turn into work w/in HCLS 16:22:45 ... Matthias: how is CDS is going? 16:23:07 Matthias: Participants in calls are short of time 16:23:30 ... many of us, problem is lack of time plus lack of clear goals 16:23:51 ... prototype of RDF is reasonable goals 5 years ago; not reasonable now 16:24:08 +1 to Matthias, HCLS needs clear cut goals 16:24:19 ... need goals that have impact. Harder to organize in heterogeneous group w/o hierarchy 16:24:45 ... CDS, I'm working on release of ontology that captures PGx rules, alleles 16:24:45 http://www.w3.org/wiki/HCLSIG/CDS/Example_of_individual_pharmacogenetic_patient_data_in_OWL 16:25:34 ... (this shows PGx for a single person?) 16:26:24 ... difficult to divide up this task. Prototype will be soon, then establish this ontology based formalism 16:26:59 ericP: So, awkward time right before clean-up, check. 16:27:51 Michel: Lot of work has been preliminary; engage point is when you can show something 16:28:09 ... lot of stuff we build gets noticed, but after the fact 16:29:41 ... discussion about prototype comes before buy-in 16:30:15 ericP: +Prototypes then show them off 16:30:35 ... OWLim stuff is proceeding mostly on its own 16:31:02 ... CDISC, working on what ODM looks like in RDF, must spend time on getting value out 16:31:29 ... term invocation, how to find equivalences in clincially acquired data 16:31:42 ... hoping to get more pharmas in CDISC stuff 16:31:54 ... I type a lot :) 16:32:14 Scott: CDISC to clinical, or HL7, FHIR? 16:32:47 ericP; There is blog about how to do this in xml. Working now on how to do this clearly in RDF 16:33:12 ... do not need to make a choice between cdisc or other, etc 16:33:42 Scott: Take advantage of several participants in group. Ratnesh is part of link for safety 16:34:44 ... Charlie was enthusiastic: take RDF for eligibility for trial, use that w patient data 16:35:17 ericP: Sounds like it would be good for COI front page 16:35:33 ... are there partners that can work w us? 16:36:02 ... I'm spread thin right now 16:36:25 ... but therer are revolutions going in both HL7 and FDA 16:36:41 Ratnesh: I can write about clincial trial stuff 16:37:11 ericP: Another piece: whole bunch of IMIs that do overlapping work 16:37:30 My proposal more precisely was: Take the RDF/OWL encoding of eligibility criteria for clinical trials (formal representation to 16:37:30 come from VUA) and use it to steer info retrieval from a partner's patient data (initially exported as HL7 v2/v3 XML). 16:37:40 ... we could help community adopt semweb "tech w least frustration" document the intersection points 16:37:44 The goal is to bridge from RDF to HL7 models with eligibility studies as the 'driving' application. 16:38:02 http://www.w3.org/wiki/HCLS/SWAT4LS2012/Hackathon#Data_Map 16:39:30 ... there are modeling efforts before sparql endpoints; we can help people make better use of their time 16:39:48 ... "Hey, let's become librarians" 16:40:27 Michel: Hackathon list of communities is great. Exactly the approach to be a bridge between communities 16:40:51 ericP: If bridges are critical enough then the value persists 16:41:23 ... we can show practical ways to take advantage of our mapping efforts 16:41:48 ... doc that is crucial that engages community to maintain 16:42:24 http://www.w3.org/wiki/HCLS/ClinicalObservationsInteroperability/HL7_RIM 16:44:14 ericP: We can figure new ways to describe what we have done 16:44:56 ... breakdown by dataspace, by task, different axes for people to comprehend where new people should enter 16:45:15 ... can improve our outreach greatly 16:45:52 Ratnesh: Link gives an overview of HL7 models 16:46:51 ... RIM, everything is UML diagrams. But for ontology, some things are not obvious 16:47:30 ericP: Lloyd MacKenzie(?) is also modeling the RIM in OWL 16:48:12 ... HL7 RIM, xml is a MIF, MIF to OWL; Lloyd is working on all this 16:49:21 Ratnesh: (discussion of classes, attributes, identities etc) 16:53:49 (Ratnesh, ericP, Michel go way-way deep :) 16:55:53 ericP: +1 appreciation to Ratnesh who speaks both OWL and UML 16:59:10 http://www.w3.org/wiki/HCLS/ClinicalObservationsInteroperability/CDISC 16:59:22 ericP: CDISC, groups Roche and AZ are working on SDTM 16:59:54 Apologies -need to log out for another meeting - excellent meeting today! 17:00:05 -egombocz 17:01:34 ericP: Combining clincial care data and clincial trial data, no distributed extensibility model 17:02:12 ... will write this down in RDF 17:03:03 -michel 17:03:11 sorry gotta run! 17:03:16 Scott: Patients/trials: we need not everything about pt, but start by eligibility criteria 17:03:33 ... narrows down from thousands of things to say to tens 17:03:57 ... criteria from trial is the place to start, instead of swimming in data 17:04:15 ericP: Nothing that disambiguates w/in EHR data 17:04:51 OWLRIM: OWL-UML differences http://www.w3.org/TR/sw-oosd-primer/ 17:04:58 Scott: Eligibility criteria is about the Pt, so it's the same core domain as the EHR 17:05:37 ericP: But the same domains are being captured in different ways 17:06:09 ... yes the intersect captures the person and the protocol, but it is hard to see how to use it 17:07:02 Scott: Encode eligibility requirements... 17:07:47 ericP: Clinical trial criteria, each application reduces the aggregate 17:08:18 ... CROs get precise data about people, sometimes you want to look at later in 2nd study 17:08:33 ... also subfractions of cohorts 17:08:51 ... working toward useability once the trial has already starte 17:09:47 -EricP 17:09:51 -boycer 17:09:53 -bosse 17:09:54 -matthias_samwald 17:10:01 -ratnesh 17:10:02 -mscottm 17:10:19 rrsagent, draft minutes 17:10:19 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/11/06-hcls-minutes.html bobP 17:10:29 rrsagent, make logs publich 17:10:37 rrsagent, make logs public 17:13:32 -Bob_Powers 17:13:33 SW_HCLS()11:00AM has ended 17:13:33 Attendees were Bob_Powers, EricP, michel, matthias_samwald, boycer, egombocz, bosse, mscottm, ratnesh 18:07:41 Zakim has left #HCLS