IRC log of css on 2012-10-24
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- 15:14:42 [RRSAgent]
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- 15:14:42 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/24-css-irc
- 15:14:52 [fantasai]
- RRSAgent: make logs public
- 15:16:25 [glazou]
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- 15:16:38 [Zakim]
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- 15:16:46 [glazou]
- Zakim, this will be Style
- 15:16:47 [Zakim]
- ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 44 minutes
- 15:16:50 [glazou]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 15:22:29 [glazou]
- hi elika
- 15:35:44 [danielfilho|w]
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- 15:49:54 [SimonSapin1]
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- 15:50:18 [florian]
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- 15:52:40 [Zakim]
- Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
- 15:52:47 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 15:54:03 [antonp]
- antonp has joined #css
- 15:54:30 [Zakim]
- +??P19
- 15:54:43 [glazou]
- Zakim, ??P19 is me
- 15:54:43 [Zakim]
- +glazou; got it
- 15:55:08 [glazou]
- Zakim, [IPcaller] is florian
- 15:55:08 [Zakim]
- +florian; got it
- 15:55:28 [glazou]
- Zakim, mute florian
- 15:55:28 [Zakim]
- florian should now be muted
- 15:55:38 [glazou]
- Zakim, unmute florian
- 15:55:38 [Zakim]
- florian should no longer be muted
- 15:55:56 [florian]
- florian has joined #css
- 15:56:14 [benknight]
- benknight has joined #css
- 15:56:23 [Zakim]
- -florian
- 15:56:49 [Zakim]
- +??P4
- 15:56:57 [glazou]
- Zakim, ??P4 is florian
- 15:56:57 [Zakim]
- +florian; got it
- 15:57:19 [Zakim]
- + +33.9.52.34.aaaa
- 15:57:36 [SimonSapin]
- Zakim: aaaa is me
- 15:58:04 [dbaron]
- dbaron has joined #css
- 15:58:16 [dbaron]
- Zakim, code?
- 15:58:16 [Zakim]
- the conference code is 78953 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), dbaron
- 15:58:35 [lstorset]
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- 15:59:14 [Zakim]
- + +47.23.69.aabb
- 15:59:16 [dbaron]
- There's a French number for zakim, isn't there?
- 15:59:20 [lstorset]
- Zakim, aabb is me
- 15:59:21 [Zakim]
- +lstorset; got it
- 15:59:22 [glazou]
- not any more
- 15:59:26 [glazou]
- dbaron: not any more
- 15:59:29 [stearns]
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- 15:59:31 [Zakim]
- + +1.858.354.aacc
- 15:59:52 [plinss]
- Zakim, aacc is me
- 15:59:52 [Zakim]
- +plinss; got it
- 16:00:07 [SimonSapin]
- Zakim, +33.9.52.34.aaaa is me
- 16:00:07 [Zakim]
- +SimonSapin; got it
- 16:00:12 [glazou]
- antonp: using SIP myself
- 16:00:13 [oyvind]
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- 16:00:16 [Zakim]
- +Stearns
- 16:00:31 [SimonSapin]
- antonp: using the US number here
- 16:00:34 [plinss]
- antonp: Worked for me
- 16:00:37 [koji]
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- 16:00:41 [glazou]
- antonp: stearns used the US number
- 16:00:48 [glazou]
- and he's on the call now
- 16:00:59 [Zakim]
- + +1.415.308.aadd
- 16:01:01 [antonp]
- Does anyone know any other numbers for Zakim? For me neither the London one nor Paris ones go to Zakim. (The London one goes to a company, and the Paris one goes to a private individual!)
- 16:01:17 [krit]
- zakim, aadd is me
- 16:01:17 [Zakim]
- +krit; got it
- 16:01:22 [Zakim]
- + +1.619.846.aaee
- 16:01:26 [florian]
- florian has left #css
- 16:01:29 [florian]
- florian has joined #css
- 16:01:36 [Zakim]
- +Lea
- 16:01:40 [hober]
- Zakim, aaee is me
- 16:01:41 [Zakim]
- +hober; got it
- 16:01:47 [JohnJansen]
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- 16:01:49 [Zakim]
- -florian
- 16:01:53 [Zakim]
- + +33.1.44.79.aaff
- 16:01:59 [Zakim]
- + +1.253.307.aagg
- 16:02:11 [dbaron]
- Zakim, aaff is [Mozilla-Paris]
- 16:02:11 [Zakim]
- +[Mozilla-Paris]; got it
- 16:02:20 [dbaron]
- Zakim, [Mozilla-Paris] has dbaron, fantasai
- 16:02:20 [Zakim]
- +dbaron, fantasai; got it
- 16:02:22 [Zakim]
- +??P28
- 16:02:26 [hober]
- antonp: iirc only the us number works; otherwise, there's sip
- 16:02:50 [Zakim]
- +[Microsoft]
- 16:02:55 [smfr]
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- 16:03:08 [florian]
- Zakim, I might be ??P28
- 16:03:08 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'I might be ??P28', florian
- 16:03:15 [florian]
- Zakim, I am ??P28
- 16:03:15 [Zakim]
- +florian; got it
- 16:03:18 [Zakim]
- +??P8
- 16:03:25 [JohnJansen]
- Zakim, Microsoft has JohnJansen
- 16:03:25 [Zakim]
- +JohnJansen; got it
- 16:03:25 [koji]
- zakim, ??p8 is me
- 16:03:26 [Zakim]
- +koji; got it
- 16:03:31 [Zakim]
- + +1.408.636.aahh
- 16:03:33 [ChrisL]
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- 16:03:49 [smfr]
- Zakim, you have the memory of a flea
- 16:03:49 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'you have the memory of a flea', smfr
- 16:03:55 [smfr]
- Zakim, aahh is me
- 16:03:55 [Zakim]
- +smfr; got it
- 16:04:45 [dbaron]
- glazou, btw, https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2012OctDec/0113.html still lists a French number, btw
- 16:04:51 [glazou]
- yeah I know
- 16:04:54 [glazou]
- I have to fix that
- 16:05:07 [fantasai]
- ScribeNick: fantasai
- 16:05:34 [antonp]
- ok, I think i'm in on a different line
- 16:05:41 [fantasai]
- glazou: Any other items?
- 16:05:46 [fantasai]
- krit: [...]
- 16:05:57 [fantasai]
- krit: move discussion of masking to tpac
- 16:06:02 [fantasai]
- krit: move transforms to tpac
- 16:06:10 [fantasai]
- krit: ask for fpwd of ? for tpac
- 16:06:16 [smfr]
- smfr has changed the topic to: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Oct/0680.html
- 16:06:21 [krit]
- s/?/masking/
- 16:06:40 [Zakim]
- +ChrisL
- 16:06:44 [TabAtkins_]
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- 16:06:52 [fantasai]
- Topic: CSS4 Backgrounds
- 16:06:54 [glazou]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Oct/0313.html
- 16:06:56 [krit]
- s/move transforms/move masking/
- 16:06:56 [fantasai]
- glazou: deferred from last week
- 16:07:30 [Zakim]
- + +1.281.305.aaii
- 16:07:38 [TabAtkins_]
- zakim, aaii is me
- 16:07:38 [Zakim]
- +TabAtkins_; got it
- 16:07:44 [fantasai]
- leaverou: Where not ambiguous order shouldn't matter, since this is how most of CSS works
- 16:07:50 [fantasai]
- leaverou: I've been confused by this many times
- 16:07:53 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins_: I support this
- 16:08:01 [fantasai]
- glazou: I think it does make sense
- 16:08:15 [fantasai]
- florian: In principle I agree, but wondering if it's too late to change.
- 16:08:29 [fantasai]
- florian: If it's rare enough that this will flip some invalid declarations to valid an break sites, then ok
- 16:08:48 [ChrisL]
- if the order is 'either way' then it won't break, surely
- 16:08:57 [Zakim]
- +Antoine
- 16:09:01 [fantasai]
- florian: This is always something we have to think of when we turn on things that didn't used to work
- 16:09:09 [antonp]
- Zakim, Antoine is me
- 16:09:09 [Zakim]
- +antonp; got it
- 16:09:11 [fantasai]
- dbaron: I'm not too worried about this.
- 16:09:11 [Zakim]
- +[Microsoft.a]
- 16:09:25 [fantasai]
- smfr: I think it's fine to change behavior in this case
- 16:09:33 [Zakim]
- +Bert
- 16:09:43 [fantasai]
- glazou: Definition we have now is in CSS3 BG CR
- 16:09:43 [Rossen]
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- 16:09:52 [fantasai]
- glazou: So, if we accept such a change, when do we do it?
- 16:09:56 [fantasai]
- glazou: And where?
- 16:10:18 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: I'm ambivalent about where we put the grammar change. Can do it now
- 16:11:27 [fantasai]
- fantasai: I think if we do this, we should errata the CR so it remains an accurate description of the features that are in it
- 16:11:54 [fantasai]
- ChrisL: you can't errata a CR, can only errata a REC. Could go through last call or ...
- 16:12:14 [fantasai]
- dbaron: I'm definitely supportive about the change in ordering, more tentative wrt change to allow 1 or zero lengths
- 16:12:34 [fantasai]
- dbaron: We'd want to keep text shadow and box shadow aligned
- 16:12:48 [fantasai]
- dbaron: It'd be odd to write text-shadow: red; and have nothing show up, but still show up
- 16:13:02 [fantasai]
- glazou: Can do the same with border: red;
- 16:14:21 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Would want at least one length
- 16:14:39 [fantasai]
- fantasai: I think we should defer that change to L4, to decide what the single length should mean
- 16:14:53 [fantasai]
- fantasai: first length is horizontal, not that useful. Discussion on list said it's common to want only one offset, but want it vertical
- 16:15:08 [fantasai]
- smfr: Would make sense for it to be just the blur radius
- 16:15:17 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: I agree w fantasai
- 16:15:21 [ChrisL]
- s/really/REALLY/
- 16:15:30 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: I think we should accept Lea's proposal to allow looser ordering
- 16:15:39 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Errata L3 for that
- 16:16:06 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Defer anything about omitting lengths for furrther discussion and possible inclusion in L4
- 16:16:16 [glazou]
- ChrisL: :-)
- 16:16:20 [fantasai]
- glazou: Ok, let's edit css3-CR and call it a clarification
- 16:16:29 [fantasai]
- JohnJansen: I will point out that nobody does this right now
- 16:16:43 [fantasai]
- JohnJansen: It's strictly a superset, so I think it's ok, but we need to add testcases for it
- 16:16:54 [fantasai]
- Florian: [...]
- 16:17:12 [fantasai]
- ChrisL: Another LC wouldn't slow us down, b/c things we're held back by are testcases and implementation reports
- 16:17:21 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Unless someone pulls out a full complete test report next week :)
- 16:17:28 [fantasai]
- glazou: Hearing consensus here, declaring resolution
- 16:17:42 [florian]
- s/[...]/I am not interested in a lot of process for that, since it is a simple change, and it seems to me we are bending the rules, but if the rule keepers are fine, then fine/
- 16:17:48 [glazou]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Oct/0398.html
- 16:18:06 [fantasai]
- RESOLVED: Allow flexibility in ordering for box-shadow / text-shadow. Same requirements on what's required in the declaration (at least 2 lengths)
- 16:18:39 [glazou]
- not hearing A SINGLE WORD
- 16:18:40 [JohnJansen]
- Actually, if Test The Web Forward goes as planned, we will be close to having a suite for BnB next week. I'm working on pulling the incoming tests together now.
- 16:18:44 [glazou]
- Zakim, mute florian
- 16:18:44 [Zakim]
- florian should now be muted
- 16:18:49 [glazou]
- aaah
- 16:18:52 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: There's an issue on viewport length units in @page
- 16:19:10 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Since it references the viewport size, but it's defined to set the width of the first page
- 16:19:22 [glazou]
- florian: was not enough, still echos ; you muted the phone, I muted the line
- 16:19:26 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Should just disallow viewport-relative units in @page sizing properties
- 16:19:43 [fantasai]
- This should include margin/border/padding/width/height/size
- 16:20:34 [fantasai]
- SimonSapin: Values module says that ? changes if the size of pages change, but ?? is supposed to be absolute
- 16:20:52 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Make sure to clarify that viewport-relative units are relative to ICB, not current page size
- 16:20:57 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Need to be a bit more careful here
- 16:21:06 [SimonSapin]
- "Note that Paged Media defines how the initial containing block transforms across varying page widths. This also affects these units. "
- 16:21:23 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: If ppl want things relative to the page they're on, viewport-relative units would have to become a used-value time tihng
- 16:21:33 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Won't be super-useful for documents of varying page sizes
- 16:21:40 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: But if that's ok with WG, relatively easy thing to write up.
- 16:22:45 [fantasai]
- fantasai: Think we should ask Simon and Antenna House about their viewpoints, since they're the ones really dealing with this kind of things
- 16:22:55 [fantasai]
- antonp: Wanted confirmation that ICB is only first page
- 16:22:57 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Yes, it is.
- 16:23:10 [fantasai]
- antonp: So if you've got abspos element on page 10, it ends up on the first page
- 16:23:29 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Gets positioned relative to the first page, though might not wind up on that page depending on where it's positioned
- 16:23:44 [fantasai]
- Rossen: Also keep in mind that if you find an bspos on page 10 and auto-positioned, will most likely stay on page 10
- 16:23:55 [fantasai]
- Rossen: But top: 0; will pull back to page 1
- 16:24:34 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Ok, me or Simon would write up an email to Prince and Antenna house explaining two options, and ask them what they think
- 16:24:43 [krijnh]
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- 16:24:43 [fantasai]
- Topic: CSS3 Positioning
- 16:24:53 [fantasai]
- s/Positioning/Conditional Rules/
- 16:25:15 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: I asked for more time to review fantasai's suggestion, and after talking with her last week agree with her position
- 16:25:26 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Not sure how to write it out, but just have to figure out how to express elegantly
- 16:25:46 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Idea was that parenthesized groups have same error-handling as an anonymous function; i.e. if you don't recognize the grammar, treat it as fals
- 16:25:56 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: dbaron brought up problem that this might hide syntax errors
- 16:26:44 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: But I don't think that's a huge issue, and that's kindof the point too, for future syntax we add it's good
- 16:26:57 [fantasai]
- dbaron: I also think it's not a huge issue. @supports is just not very typo-resilient
- 16:27:09 [florian]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 16:27:10 [Zakim]
- florian should no longer be muted
- 16:27:15 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: We can make the reasonable edits this week or reasonably soon, and that was last remaining issue.
- 16:27:41 [fantasai]
- Florian: I'd like to make this change fast, b/c have implementations rolling out
- 16:27:45 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Absolutely.
- 16:28:20 [fantasai]
- fantasai: Suggest we make the edits, and just have a 3-minute conversation about publishing LC at TPAC (next week)
- 16:28:40 [fantasai]
- Leif: Haven't looked into this, but sounds fine from first look.
- 16:29:04 [fantasai]
- Topic: ????
- 16:29:23 [dbaron]
- s/????/Anything remaining for Item 4?/
- 16:29:41 [glazou]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Oct/0513.html
- 16:29:51 [fantasai]
- krit: raised an issue with transforms that we have ?
- 16:29:53 [glazou]
- Topic: decompos 2D matrices
- 16:30:01 [fantasai]
- krit: How to decompose 3D matrices
- 16:30:06 [fantasai]
- krit: how to decompose 2D matrices
- 16:30:15 [fantasai]
- krit: [breaking up]
- 16:30:28 [fantasai]
- krit: [something about computed value]
- 16:30:29 [glazou]
- krit: _extremely_ hard to unddrstand what you say
- 16:30:41 [fantasai]
- krit: Interpolation algorithm
- 16:31:10 [krit]
- ok, agree
- 16:31:16 [fantasai]
- glazou: We cannot hear you, suggest to defer to TPAC
- 16:31:28 [fantasai]
- Topic: display spec
- 16:31:40 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: I've been complaining about the way the dsiplay property work since I joined the WG
- 16:31:42 [dbaron]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Oct/0552.html
- 16:31:52 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Conflates internal/external display modes
- 16:31:58 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: And display none toggling
- 16:32:05 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Went ahead to draw up first draft of new display spec
- 16:32:14 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Four properties: display-inside/display-outside
- 16:32:27 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Two other properties, bad names, 'display-box' for none behavior
- 16:32:36 [Zakim]
- -plinss
- 16:32:49 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Added value for displaying the contents in place of the box itself, i.e. as if the element wasn't there but its contents were
- 16:32:52 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: And one for marker-box
- 16:33:09 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: There's only one extra functionality, and some extra complexity from splitting things up
- 16:33:17 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Hope it will make things easier to talk about
- 16:33:29 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: [gives example]
- 16:33:35 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: yay/nay? Take on as official work item?
- 16:33:53 [fantasai]
- florian: I agree with split into at least 3, a bit more discussion if we need list-item behavior as a fourth item
- 16:33:59 [fantasai]
- florian: Other than that, think it's a good idea
- 16:34:33 [fantasai]
- Bert: This is something that we tried years ago, and I wrote it up, but it failed to become intuitive
- 16:34:57 [fantasai]
- Bert: It's much easier to talk about an inline or a block in a stylesheet than to talk about inside and outside independently
- 16:35:18 [fantasai]
- Bert: For cases where you say, sometimes you have to talk about things that are a block inside, we can solve with terminology in the spec
- 16:35:31 [fantasai]
- Bert: Think need to talk to authors about their perceptions
- 16:35:39 [fantasai]
- Bert: In my experience, it doesn't really work
- 16:35:49 [fantasai]
- Bert: It was easier to not talk about it
- 16:35:59 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Cited your work as prior art
- 16:36:12 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: For me, I just found the names confusing, display-model/display-role
- 16:36:16 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Didn't make sense
- 16:36:23 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: But I think the names might be part of the intuition problem
- 16:36:42 [fantasai]
- Bert: It was originally -inside/-outside, we changed it later
- 16:36:53 [fantasai]
- dbaron: I always liked -inside/-outside better. But not sure we ever published with them
- 16:37:00 [fantasai]
- dbaron: we definitely discussed them
- 16:37:08 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Also think I came up with a slightly more intuitive combination of values
- 16:37:26 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: With fantasai's help, realized I only needed three display-inside values: block | table | auto
- 16:37:36 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Ended up being a really simple way to do it
- 16:37:46 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Can still use shorthand
- 16:37:50 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Think it works pretty reasonably
- 16:37:58 [fantasai]
- antonp: I really like the approach
- 16:38:19 [fantasai]
- antonp: Thought about it independently, and came up with a model similar to Tab's
- 16:38:24 [fantasai]
- antonp: I think it is a useful way forward
- 16:38:42 [fantasai]
- antonp: My concern, from discussing with Bert, is that he has a very different model
- 16:38:49 [ChrisL]
- Inside and outside seem very clear to me
- 16:38:54 [fantasai]
- antonp: He felt that grid wasn't a display model, liked the multi-column model
- 16:39:08 [fantasai]
- antonp: where the layout changes as reflection of other properties
- 16:39:18 [fantasai]
- antonp: Think need to think about that different way of thinking about things
- 16:39:29 [fantasai]
- glazou: Your draft contains all the shorthand values and all the extensions
- 16:39:38 [fantasai]
- glazou: I think authors are mostly going to use shorthands
- 16:39:58 [fantasai]
- glazou: Seems the split is mostly theoretical
- 16:40:10 [fantasai]
- glazou: Not convinced we actually need the separate properties
- 16:41:07 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: It's not just theoretical, for instance, we can't have a display: table-cell that has a different internal model than display: block
- 16:41:13 [fantasai]
- glazou: It's just a matter of new keywords for display
- 16:41:47 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: New outside displays won't be possible to combine with existing internal displays unless we creat combinatorial keywords
- 16:41:58 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Yes, it's mostly about clearing up tehoretical underpinnings
- 16:42:11 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: But leaves better extension story
- 16:42:23 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Also, pulling out display: none into separate property is useful
- 16:42:43 [fantasai]
- antonp: I would really like to understand Bert's model first before adopting this.
- 16:42:53 [fantasai]
- antonp: Otherwise, I'm happy to fly down this route.
- 16:43:05 [dbaron]
- I think this is a good face-to-face topic.
- 16:43:12 [fantasai]
- Florian: Seems good thing to discuss at TPAC
- 16:43:25 [fantasai]
- Florian: At Opera, this matches well with how our code is structured
- 16:43:39 [fantasai]
- glazou: What about other browsers?
- 16:43:58 [fantasai]
- arronei: I think IE has some of this separation internally, but not quite to the extent we're talking about here
- 16:44:46 [fantasai]
- dbaron: We don't really have a separation in terms of display concepts, but there are things that share the same code, e.g. blocks and inline-block both block-inside. But don't quite track the separation
- 16:45:04 [fantasai]
- glazou: Let's add this to list of topics for TPAC, but give it a time limit
- 16:45:32 [fantasai]
- Florian: I think discussion should start with Bert explaining how he thinks about it, b/c other than that I think everyone seems to align with this.
- 16:45:41 [glazou]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Oct/0516.html
- 16:45:48 [fantasai]
- Topic: BOM precedence
- 16:46:19 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Nobody disagrees, so I will go make that change.
- 16:46:28 [fantasai]
- glazou: You saying nobody disagrees is not enough for me, Tab.
- 16:46:44 [florian]
- I agree
- 16:47:00 [fantasai]
- dbaron: Henri's proposing this, and I'm in no position to disagree with him
- 16:47:09 [dbaron]
- q+ fantasai
- 16:47:16 [fantasai]
- Leif: It would be nice to have some good tests for this.
- 16:47:21 [SimonSapin]
- BOM precedence sounds good to me, though I don’t have much experience with web compat
- 16:47:24 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Hoping Anne can help out with that.
- 16:47:32 [dbaron]
- ack fantasai
- 16:47:43 [dbaron]
- fantasai: if we're currently defining things one way, then we need to errata CSS 2.1
- 16:48:20 [fantasai]
- glazou: Seems we all agree on this, let's move on
- 16:49:02 [dbaron]
- Tab: OK, I'll investigate CSS 2.1 errata
- 16:49:04 [fantasai]
- RESOLVED: BOM takes precedence over HTTP. Errata CSS2.1, edit css3-syntax to fix this.
- 16:49:37 [fantasai]
- ChrisL: This affects UTF-16, and, if present, UTF-8
- 16:50:02 [fantasai]
- ChrisL: This is more in line with XML ??? [?]
- 16:50:13 [fantasai]
- ChrisL: Also gives same behavior from filesystem vs web
- 16:50:22 [fantasai]
- ChrisL: Also some parsers don't have access to HTTP headers
- 16:50:27 [fantasai]
- Koji: ... i18nwg?
- 16:50:35 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: I didn't hear from i18nwg on this
- 16:51:02 [dbaron]
- [multiple people talking at once]
- 16:51:04 [fantasai]
- antonp: Got how far in spreadsheet of testing...?
- 16:51:08 [smfr]
- antonp: you're on the call!
- 16:51:12 [dbaron]
- Zakim, mute anton
- 16:51:12 [Zakim]
- antonp should now be muted
- 16:51:54 [fantasai]
- TabAtkins: Even if i18nwg hasn't, I trust work that Henri and Anne have been doing, they've been extremely thorough
- 16:52:01 [florian]
- also, if the BOM and http headers are in conflict, BOM is more likely to reflect author's intentions, as ability to modify the file is more common than ability to modify http headers.
- 16:52:37 [fantasai]
- glazou: Anything else on this topic?
- 16:52:46 [glazou]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2012Oct/0563.html
- 16:53:19 [fantasai]
- Topic: breaking inline-block
- 16:53:21 [ChrisL]
- s/XML ???/XML charset handling in draft-lilley-xml-mediatypes/
- 16:53:23 [fantasai]
- glazou: Seems to need clarification
- 16:54:36 [fantasai]
- koji: Nested line boxes. Spec is not clear where it actually should page-break
- 16:55:02 [Zakim]
- -ChrisL
- 16:55:04 [Zakim]
- -krit
- 16:55:06 [ChrisL]
- zakim, who is playing really annoying video games?
- 16:55:06 [Zakim]
- I don't understand your question, ChrisL.
- 16:55:06 [glazou]
- bye krit
- 16:55:24 [SimonSapin]
- keep this undefined?
- 16:55:47 [fantasai]
- fantasai: I would leave it undefined, b/c I don't have a good answer
- 16:56:11 [Zakim]
- -Lea
- 16:56:14 [fantasai]
- Rossen: Consideration we had wrt fragment breaks, predictable approach is you start laying out your line box in current fragment. I fyou happen to overflow the fragment, and this is not the first line, then you push to the next one to make sure that this is the very first line
- 16:56:33 [fantasai]
- Rossen: At that point your inline content should simply break as any other regular container would break, ensure you'd give the line as much space as you can
- 16:56:44 [fantasai]
- Rossen: This is the only kind of predictable behavior that we thought of, not sure that it's optmila
- 16:57:36 [fantasai]
- fantasai: The issue is happening when you're already at the top of the page
- 16:57:47 [fantasai]
- Rossen: It's the same as for a very large font
- 16:58:34 [fantasai]
- fantasai: No, it's different. With a big glyph, the size of the glyph does not change it when you slice it across pages.
- 16:58:44 [fantasai]
- fantasai: with an inline block, you have the option to slice it; or you can fragment it
- 16:59:06 [fantasai]
- fantasai: if you fragment it, the height of the inline-block changes due to the fragmentation
- 17:00:12 [Zakim]
- -SimonSapin
- 17:00:28 [fantasai]
- koji: Second behavior seems clearly better
- 17:00:45 [fantasai]
- fantasai: Yes, but it's complicated because of interdependencies between alignment and size of box and point of fragmentation
- 17:01:05 [Bert]
- Train strike on Thursday/Friday
- 17:01:08 [Zakim]
- -hober
- 17:01:19 [Zakim]
- -[Microsoft]
- 17:01:24 [Zakim]
- -[Microsoft.a]
- 17:01:26 [Zakim]
- - +1.253.307.aagg
- 17:01:26 [fantasai]
- Meeting closed.
- 17:01:27 [Zakim]
- -glazou
- 17:01:27 [Zakim]
- -Stearns
- 17:01:29 [Zakim]
- -florian
- 17:01:29 [Zakim]
- -TabAtkins_
- 17:01:29 [Zakim]
- -antonp
- 17:01:30 [Zakim]
- -smfr
- 17:01:31 [Zakim]
- -Bert
- 17:01:36 [dbaron]
- www.airfrance.us does have a "Strike action on 26 October" warning on it
- 17:01:40 [Zakim]
- -[Mozilla-Paris]
- 17:01:52 [Zakim]
- -lstorset
- 17:02:08 [dbaron]
- https://www.airfrance.us/US/en/local/information/news/news-air-traffic-air-france.htm
- 17:02:34 [Zakim]
- -koji
- 17:02:35 [Zakim]
- Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
- 17:02:35 [Zakim]
- Attendees were glazou, florian, +47.23.69.aabb, lstorset, +1.858.354.aacc, plinss, SimonSapin, Stearns, +1.415.308.aadd, krit, +1.619.846.aaee, Lea, hober, +33.1.44.79.aaff,
- 17:02:35 [Zakim]
- ... +1.253.307.aagg, dbaron, fantasai, JohnJansen, koji, +1.408.636.aahh, smfr, ChrisL, +1.281.305.aaii, TabAtkins_, antonp, [Microsoft], Bert
- 17:02:54 [SimonSapin]
- SimonSapin has joined #css
- 17:03:04 [Bert]
- One trade union announced striked on Friday for Air France, indeed. There may be delays but Air France expects to transport everybody.
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