14:21:54 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
14:21:54 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/09-wcag2ict-irc
14:22:41 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make log world
14:23:08 <korn_> korn_ has joined #wcag2ict
14:23:08 <MaryJo> topic: Whitepaper - ANALYSIS of impact of this approach on the WCAG2ICT document
14:23:08 <MaryJo> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/OCT032012/results#xq5
14:23:10 <MichaelC> scribe: Mary_Jo_Mueller
14:23:11 <MichaelC> Andi	scribenick: MaryJo
14:23:16 <korn__> korn__ has joined #wcag2ict
14:23:21 <MichaelC> scribenick: MaryJo
14:23:32 <MichaelC> s/Andi	scribenick: MaryJo//
14:24:26 <MaryJo> Most of these SC contain 'sets of Web pages' and we talked about making this 'software'. The SC doesn't cover parts of a web page but the whole web page.
14:26:08 <MaryJo> So it should be for the whole software application, not for parts contained within the software.  If you did that it would be hard to define what is considered a new context.
14:27:02 <MaryJo> Top level frame also only works in certain environments.
14:28:43 <MaryJo> If you treat the 'set of pages' as a unit, then it should cover a document or a software application as a unit.
14:30:36 <Andi> q+
14:31:26 <MaryJo> There are good techniques associated with having multiple ways to find content and it is also a good place for some advisory techniques surrounding the concept.
14:33:41 <Zakim> -Janina
14:33:48 <korn1> q+
14:34:14 <Zakim> +??P34
14:34:42 <janina> zakim, ??P34 is Janina
14:34:42 <Zakim> +Janina; got it
14:35:11 <MaryJo> The definition of software was taken from a dictionary, so it is something that should go out for survey.
14:36:28 <MaryJo> Applications that have the name of the application (e.g. Skype) as the title is considered sufficient.
14:37:44 <MaryJo> We need to add to the understanding of 2.4.2 make clear that product names is sufficient description of the function of a link or title.
14:38:00 <Andi> action: Gregg to draft addendum to 2.4.2 INTENT to clarify that product names are sufficient
14:38:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-68 - Draft addendum to 2.4.2 INTENT to clarify that product names are sufficient [on Gregg Vanderheiden - due 2012-10-16].
14:38:47 <MaryJo> Question of why 'set of web pages' is dropped in some cases, but not in all.
14:39:34 <Andi> ack andi
14:39:46 <MaryJo> Any time it says pages in a set of web pages, all references are plural. Where it wasn't dropped is where it said 'Web page' singular in a 'set of Web pages'.
14:42:39 <MaryJo> 2.4.5 is the SC where the 'set of' was not removed. 
14:44:28 <MaryJo> Set of software is software that is never intended to stand alone.  There are applications that can stand alone, but they don't have it sold/distributed separately.
14:44:59 <MaryJo> s/they don't have it/it isn't/
14:45:41 <Andi> ack korn
14:46:28 <MaryJo> We should set 2.4.5 aside for now, and try to address the others we are closer to agreement on.
14:48:07 <korn1> q+
14:48:19 <korn> korn has joined #wcag2ict
14:48:37 <MaryJo> 'Navigation mechanisms' is important to define.
14:48:55 <korn_> korn_ has joined #wcag2ict
14:51:11 <MaryJo> In the software context this really means 'keyboard focus' where in the Web context it is the web page focus and links for how to get to the pages (to a new url).
14:53:22 <MaryJo> The consistent navigation SC 3.2.3 and the definition for navigation should go out for survey.
14:56:17 <Zakim> -Judy
14:56:22 <alex_> q+
14:56:49 <MaryJo> Holding back on 3.2.3 (definition of navigational mechanisms), 2.4.8 (it's AAA), and 2.4.5 (wrestling with 'set of software'). We have potential resolutions for 2.4.1 and 2.4.2 (WCAG needs to clarify what is an acceptable title).
14:59:45 <korn1> q-
14:59:54 <Andi> ack alex
14:59:56 <alex_> q-
15:00:00 <MaryJo> topic: Definition of navigational mechanisms
15:02:02 <korn1> q+
15:02:19 <Andi> ack korn
15:03:12 <MaryJo> Need to use precise words in this definition like 'focus' or 'url', instead 'take you' or 'move you' which are imprecise.
15:04:04 <MaryJo> Headers are not considered navigational mechanisms because they are not active.
15:04:39 <MaryJo> s/Headers/Headings/
15:06:56 <greggvanderheiden> Navigation mechanism
15:06:56 <greggvanderheiden> An active mechanism to move the focus of reading and/or action to one of a set of prescribed locations.
15:06:57 <greggvanderheiden> Note: Headers are not navigation mechanism because they are not active mechanisms.   They may be used by navigational mechanisms but they themselves are not. 
15:08:25 <MaryJo> What is the equivalent in software? Moving the focus, moving the caret?
15:08:27 <MaryJo> What about scrolling, especially when it moves the caret?  The caret doesn't always wind up in a prescribed location upon scrolling.
15:09:44 <MaryJo> It isn't just about moving focus, like by using the Tab key (which means go to the next element) because that isn't moving focus to a prescribed location.
15:10:17 <MaryJo> The author does provide the list of focusable items and the order in which they receive focus.
15:11:32 <MaryJo> The active mechanism would be provided by the content.
15:11:59 <Andi> An active mechanism provided by the content to move the focus of reading and/or action to one of a set of prescribed locations.
15:12:53 <MaryJo> So using Home (go to start) and End (go to end) keys don't count either.
15:13:13 <greggvanderheiden> Navigation mechanism
15:13:14 <greggvanderheiden> An active mechanism provided by the content to move the focus of reading and/or action to one of a set of prescribed locations.
15:13:15 <greggvanderheiden> Note: Headers are not navigation mechanism because they are not active mechanisms.   They may be used by navigational mechanisms but they themselves are not. 
15:13:41 <MaryJo> If the content provides functions (like a button or link) that to go to the top or go to the bottom are navigational mechanisms.
15:14:07 <Andi> q+
15:15:08 <Andi> ack andi
15:19:56 <David> q+
15:23:06 <MaryJo> For the consistent navigation SC, this to cover the consistency in the order of navigational mechanisms when they are presented to the user.
15:23:51 <Andi> ack david
15:24:40 <korn1> q+
15:25:11 <MaryJo> In WCAG, this was meant to cover navigational menus that are presented on multiple pages so the list of links appear in the same relative order.
15:26:28 <MaryJo> Whenever you have a list of navigational elements in the software they should be in the same relative order.
15:29:28 <Zakim> -Andi_Snow_Weaver
15:29:53 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
15:29:58 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
15:30:00 <Zakim> -Mary_Jo_Mueller
15:30:00 <Zakim> -Kiran_Kaja
15:30:03 <Zakim> -[Oracle]
15:30:04 <Zakim> -Janina
15:30:14 <MaryJo> One example is: A dialog box is a prescribed location that you can navigate to from a menu.
15:30:15 <Zakim> -Gregg_Vanderheiden
15:30:16 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has ended
15:30:16 <Zakim> Attendees were Mary_Jo_Mueller, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Judy, Kiran_Kaja, Peter_Korn, Janina, David_MacDonald, Alex_Li
15:30:24 <MaryJo> zakim, make minutes
15:30:24 <Zakim> I don't understand 'make minutes', MaryJo
15:30:39 <MaryJo> rrsagent, make minutes
15:30:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/09-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
15:31:26 <korn1> korn1 has left #wcag2ict
15:44:47 <MaryJo> Regrets: Loïc_Martinez_Normand, Pierce_Crowell, Allen_Hoffman, Mike_Pluke
16:02:09 <greggvanderheiden> greggvanderheiden has joined #wcag2ict
17:27:18 <MaryJo> rrsagent, make minutes
17:27:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/09-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
17:31:39 <MaryJo> s/or go to the bottom are navigational mechanisms/or go to the bottom, they are navigational mechanisms/
17:32:32 <MaryJo> s/One example is: A/An example for software is: A/
17:32:39 <MaryJo> rrsagent, make minutes
17:32:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/09-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
18:05:41 <janina> janina has left #wcag2ict
18:33:41 <MaryJo> zakim, bye
18:33:41 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag2ict