13:53:57 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
13:53:57 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/10/05-wcag2ict-irc
13:53:59 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:53:59 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #wcag2ict
13:54:01 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2428
13:54:01 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM scheduled to start in 6 minutes
13:54:02 <trackbot> Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
13:54:02 <trackbot> Date: 05 October 2012
13:54:14 <Andi> scribe: Andi_Snow-Weaver
13:54:49 <Andi> chair: Andi_Snow-Weaver
13:55:04 <Andi> scribe: Mary_Jo_Mueller
13:55:27 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has now started
13:55:33 <Zakim> +Andi_Snow_Weaver
13:58:50 <David> David has joined #wcag2ict
13:59:26 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
14:00:01 <Zakim> +Kiran_Kaja
14:00:46 <Zakim> +Alex_Li
14:00:51 <BBailey> BBailey has joined #wcag2ict
14:01:02 <Kiran> Kiran has joined #wcag2ict
14:01:31 <Kiran> Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:01:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see Andi_Snow_Weaver, David_MacDonald, Kiran_Kaja, Alex_Li
14:01:46 <Zakim> +Bruce_Bailey
14:02:06 <Zakim> +Mary_Jo_Mueller
14:02:16 <BBailey> zakim, this is Bruce_Bailey
14:02:16 <Zakim> sorry, BBailey, I do not see a conference named 'Bruce_Bailey' in progress or scheduled at this time
14:02:25 <Andi> scribenick: MaryJo
14:02:32 <BBailey> zakim, I am Bruce_Bailey
14:02:32 <Zakim> ok, BBailey, I now associate you with Bruce_Bailey
14:02:43 <MaryJo> MaryJo has joined #wcag2ict
14:02:47 <Andi> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:02:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see Andi_Snow_Weaver, David_MacDonald, Kiran_Kaja, Alex_Li, Bruce_Bailey, Mary_Jo_Mueller
14:02:54 <Zakim> +Gregg_Vanderheiden
14:03:05 <greggvanderheiden> greggvanderheiden has joined #wcag2ict
14:03:45 <Zakim> + +44.162.859.aaaa
14:03:54 <Zakim> +[Oracle]
14:04:07 <korn> korn has joined #wcag2ict
14:04:08 <Andi> zakim, +44.162.859.aaaa is Mike_Pluke
14:04:08 <Zakim> +Mike_Pluke; got it
14:04:25 <Andi> zakim, [Oracle] has Peter Korn
14:04:25 <Zakim> +Peter, Korn; got it
14:04:36 <Zakim> -Kiran_Kaja
14:04:48 <MaryJo> regrets: Pierce_Crowell, Allen_Hoffman
14:05:22 <Andi> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/OCT032012/results
14:06:25 <MaryJo> Topic: Survey results
14:07:37 <Zakim> +Judy
14:08:23 <Zakim> +Peter_Korn
14:08:49 <janina> janina has joined #wcag2ict
14:08:51 <Zakim> -[Oracle]
14:09:08 <Zakim> +??P8
14:09:17 <janina> zakim, ??P8 is Janina
14:09:17 <Zakim> +Janina; got it
14:09:20 <Judy> Judy has joined #wcag2ict
14:09:40 <Judy> Judy has joined #wcag2ict
14:10:22 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:10:30 <Zakim> -Alex_Li
14:10:42 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
14:11:21 <Andi> RESOLUTION: Accept Appendix A proposed changes to 1.3.2 and all success criteria except 2.4.1, 2.4.2, 2.4.5, 3.2.3
14:11:36 <MaryJo> RESOLUTION: Accept Appendix A proposed changes to 1.3.2 and all success criteria except 2.4.1, 2.4.2, 2.4.5, 3.2.3 
14:11:47 <greggvanderheiden> q?
14:11:50 <alex_> alex_ has joined #wcag2ict
14:11:50 <korn> q+
14:12:09 <MaryJo> topic: 1.4.2 
14:12:41 <MaryJo> s/1.4.2/Closed functionality - text for introduction/
14:12:49 <alex_> q+
14:12:52 <Andi> ack gregg
14:13:19 <MaryJo> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/OCT032012/results#xq8
14:13:42 <Zakim> +??P3
14:13:44 <janina> janina has joined #wcag2ict
14:13:56 <MaryJo> Proposal was made to add some SC to the list of what is not applicable for closed functionality.
14:14:54 <Andi> zakim, ??P3 is Janina_Sajka
14:14:54 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
14:14:59 <Andi> ack korn
14:15:06 <MaryJo> For 1.4.2 audio control, this would have to be met for anything that is self-voicing.
14:15:06 <janina> janina has joined #wcag2ict
14:15:21 <MaryJo> We might want to explain that in our document.
14:15:36 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:15:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see Andi_Snow_Weaver, David_MacDonald, Bruce_Bailey, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Mike_Pluke, Judy, Peter_Korn, Janina, [Microsoft], Janina_Sajka
14:16:00 <korn> q-
14:16:02 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:16:07 <janina> zakim, drop janina
14:16:07 <Zakim> Janina is being disconnected
14:16:08 <Zakim> -Janina
14:16:13 <Andi> ack alex_
14:16:33 <David> q+
14:16:36 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
14:16:36 <Mike_> Mike_ has joined #wcag2ict
14:16:58 <Zakim> +??P3
14:17:08 <janina> zakim, ??P3 is Janina
14:17:08 <Zakim> +Janina; got it
14:17:37 <Mike_> q+
14:17:50 <janina> q+
14:17:54 <Andi> ack gregg
14:18:11 <MaryJo> In addition, some of these programmatic SC are useful if the technology includes its own AT, and we should add a note to this effect.
14:19:51 <alex_> q+
14:20:30 <korn> First suggestion for the note:
14:20:30 <korn> Note: While the information in this list of provisions doesn't need to  be provided to separately loaded AT (not built into the closed system),  any built-in functionality providing (for example) a speech interface to  the blind may need the information described in these provisions.
14:21:14 <Andi> ack david
14:22:08 <Andi> ack mike
14:22:18 <greggvanderheiden> Note: While the information in this list of provisions doesn't need to  be provided to separately loaded AT (not built into the closed system),  any built-in functionality providing (for example a speech interface to  the blind)  would find the information described in these provisions useful.
14:23:12 <korn> q+
14:23:37 <greggvanderheiden> Note: While the information in this list of provisions doesn't need to  be provided to separately loaded AT (not built into the closed system),  any built-in functionality providing alternate access  (for example a speech interface to  the blind)  would find the information described in these provisions useful.
14:23:46 <korn> Perhaps the right answer is to re-cast SC 1.4.2 in the closed environment, to make it apply to any built-in speech UI for blind users.
14:24:11 <MaryJo> Any audio that automatically plays should stop if the user interacts with the closed product and causes some content or actions to be spoken.
14:24:16 <Andi> ack korn
14:25:06 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:25:13 <Mike_> M376 -text = Where auditory output is provided as non-visual access to closed functionality, the ICT shall not automatically play, at the same time, any interfering audible output that lasts longer than three seconds.
14:26:08 <Andi> ack janina
14:26:29 <MaryJo> We may want to restate the SC, to describe what it means in the closed context. So it limits 1.4.2 to when self-voicing capabilities are provided.
14:27:22 <Andi> ack alex
14:27:54 <korn> Suggestion for an additional note on this topic:
14:27:54 <korn> Note: While the intent of SC 1.4.2 as written for the Web environment is  to address conflicts between the audio of the page and audio of any AT  providing a speech interface.  For closed environments, SC 1.4.2 applies  to the audio of the software and any provided alternate speech output  interface provided for blind users.  
14:28:09 <Zakim> -Janina
14:28:27 <Andi> ack gregg
14:28:46 <MaryJo> If the audio and visual are in synch and are not interruptable by the sighted user, it should not be interruptable by the non-sighted user. 
14:29:02 <janina> janina has joined #wcag2ict
14:29:17 <alex_> q+
14:29:21 <Zakim> +??P3
14:29:28 <janina> zakim, ??P3 is Janina
14:29:28 <Zakim> +Janina; got it
14:30:36 <MaryJo> The problem occurs in situations where the audio plays and the user is able to interact with the closed product to perform functions and the audio is not interrupted.
14:31:06 <korn> q+
14:32:12 <MaryJo> If we remove this SC here, then policies that cover closed products must include a provision to make up for this.
14:32:25 <korn> q+
14:32:28 <alex_> q-
14:32:28 <Andi> ack alex
14:32:33 <MaryJo> topic: Proposal on conformance
14:32:48 <MaryJo> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/OCT032012/results#xq7
14:33:49 <Andi> ack korn
14:33:54 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:35:15 <Andi> ack gregg
14:35:46 <korn> q+
14:36:10 <Andi> q+
14:36:42 <korn> q-
14:36:42 <korn> q+
14:38:08 <MaryJo> All policies do say that it's all or nothing, but they also have a 'best meets' clause when full conformance is not met.
14:38:21 <Mike_> q+
14:40:28 <MaryJo> Conformance won't be met if all of the SCs are not met, so you just need to document how well you meet the SC and what the issues were where some SC weren't met.
14:40:45 <MaryJo> We don't want to confuse conformance with how you report conformance.
14:41:05 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:41:55 <Andi> ack andi
14:42:05 <Andi> ack korn
14:42:08 <MaryJo> In the WCAG2ICT document, we wouldn't prescribe how you report conformance but can talk about what the issues are with reporting conformance.
14:43:01 <Andi> ack mike
14:43:05 <MaryJo> We also need to discuss the challenges in conformance for software, since you cannot verify without a doubt that it isn't 100% conforming.
14:43:30 <MaryJo> s/isn't/is or isn't/
14:44:24 <Zakim> +??P8
14:44:53 <Zakim> -??P8
14:45:35 <MaryJo> You can make a statement that you don't conform with a list of exceptions for the SC that weren't met.
14:46:47 <Andi> action: Peter to work with Gregg to draft language about reporting progress toward conformance
14:46:47 <trackbot> Created ACTION-66 - Work with Gregg to draft language about reporting progress toward conformance [on Peter Korn - due 2012-10-12].
14:47:49 <korn> q+
14:49:13 <MaryJo> topic: White paper: Objects of Assessment section
14:49:25 <MaryJo> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/OCT032012/results#xq2
14:49:35 <janina> janina has joined #wcag2ict
14:49:53 <Zakim> +??P8
14:49:59 <janina> zakim, ??P8 is Janina
14:49:59 <Zakim> +Janina; got it
14:51:08 <David> q+
14:52:11 <MaryJo> There was concern expressed with the tight coupling between the 'objects of assessment' and 'conformance' with a suggested edit.
14:52:30 <Andi> ack david
14:52:35 <Andi> ack gregg
14:52:51 <Andi> ack korn
14:54:50 <janina> janina has joined #wcag2ict
14:55:05 <Zakim> +??P11
14:55:11 <janina> zakim, ??P11 is Janina
14:55:11 <Zakim> +Janina; got it
14:57:27 <MaryJo> When this talks about the 'smallest unit of conformance' the evaluation for the SC occurs on 'all parts of a process' which could be several pages, or the 'set of pages' when it is a set that can't stand alone, or the singular 'web page'.
15:00:26 <MaryJo> topic: Whitepaper - Part 2 - Objects of assessment in ICT
15:00:36 <MaryJo> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/OCT032012/results#xq3
15:04:54 <MaryJo> Some of the responders were concerned with the replacement of 'web page' with 'software product'. 
15:05:12 <korn> q+
15:05:24 <alex_> q+
15:06:00 <MaryJo> We will also need to be careful of how we define a set based on concerns that multiple unrelated software programs are shipped/installed together (more of a bundle than a set).
15:08:52 <korn> q-
15:08:58 <MaryJo> Suggestion was made to split out the 'set' part of part 2 so we can reach agreement on the rest of this section.
15:11:45 <MaryJo> Separating out 'set' is fine, but the discussion should not be delayed much longer, as we need to reach agreement.
15:16:21 <Andi> ack alex
15:16:33 <korn> I suggest we move to the next item...
15:20:26 <MaryJo> topic: Whitepaper - pulling this together
15:20:28 <MaryJo> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/OCT032012/results#xq4
15:21:46 <MichaelC_> MichaelC_ has joined #wcag2ict
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15:23:08 <korn> q+
15:23:34 <MaryJo> A definition of 'navigation mechanisms' was proposed, as this is needed.  We could add it to another survey.
15:24:33 <Andi> ack korn
15:24:36 <Andi> q+
15:25:28 <MaryJo> We'll need to work on the definition more, as the notion of 'move' is problematic.
15:26:40 <MaryJo> Need to add the notion that if you are executing any actions, that is not navigation.
15:27:27 <Andi> action: Gregg to work with Peter on defining what navigation means in software
15:27:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-67 - Work with Peter on defining what navigation means in software [on Gregg Vanderheiden - due 2012-10-12].
15:28:56 <MaryJo> Concern was expressed that there shouldn't only be a single title for a software product. There should also be individual titles for windows and dialog boxes.
15:29:51 <MaryJo> However, we cannot require a title for every single dialog or window within the software. It is a good practice, but is difficult to mandate.
15:30:01 <korn> q?
15:30:04 <Andi> ack andi
15:31:20 <Zakim> -Peter_Korn
15:32:49 <Zakim> -Gregg_Vanderheiden
15:33:21 <korn> korn has left #wcag2ict
15:33:40 <Judy> zakim, who's here?
15:33:40 <Zakim> On the phone I see Andi_Snow_Weaver, David_MacDonald, Bruce_Bailey, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Mike_Pluke, Judy, [Microsoft], Janina, Janina.a, Janina.aa
15:33:42 <Zakim> On IRC I see Andi, MichaelC, janina, Mike_, alex_, Judy, greggvanderheiden, MaryJo, Kiran, BBailey, David, Zakim, RRSAgent, trackbot
15:33:50 <greggvanderheiden> can someone call me?
15:33:56 <greggvanderheiden> or are we done?
15:34:15 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
15:34:17 <greggvanderheiden> OK  thx
15:34:48 <Mike_> Mike_ has left #wcag2ict
15:34:50 <Zakim> -Bruce_Bailey
15:34:51 <Zakim> -Judy
15:34:51 <Zakim> -Andi_Snow_Weaver
15:34:53 <Zakim> -Janina.aa
15:34:55 <Zakim> -Mary_Jo_Mueller
15:34:55 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
15:35:00 <janina> janina has left #wcag2ict
15:36:12 <Zakim> -Mike_Pluke
15:37:00 <MaryJo> rrsagent, make minutes
15:37:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/10/05-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
16:24:59 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #wcag2ict