13:56:34 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
13:56:34 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/28-wcag2ict-irc
13:56:36 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:56:36 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #wcag2ict
13:56:38 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2428
13:56:38 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
13:56:39 <trackbot> Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
13:56:39 <trackbot> Date: 28 September 2012
13:56:55 <Andi> chair: Andi_Snow-Weaver
13:57:05 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has now started
13:57:12 <Zakim> +Andi_Snow_Weaver
13:58:10 <Zakim> +Bruce_Bailey
13:58:11 <Andi> agenda+ Survey for September 28th Meeting https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/SEP262012/results 
13:58:16 <BBailey> Zakim, BBailey is Bruce_Bailey
13:58:16 <Zakim> sorry, BBailey, I do not recognize a party named 'BBailey'
13:58:44 <BBailey> zakim, Bruce_Bailey is BBailey
13:58:44 <Zakim> +BBailey; got it
13:58:48 <Andi> agenda+ Action Items http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG2ICT-TF/track/actions/open 
13:58:54 <Judy> Judy has joined #wcag2ict
13:59:15 <Zakim> + +1.510.334.aaaa
14:00:21 <Andi> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:00:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see Andi_Snow_Weaver, BBailey, +1.510.334.aaaa
14:00:37 <Andi> zakim, +1.510.334.aaaa is Peter_Korn
14:00:37 <Zakim> +Peter_Korn; got it
14:00:41 <Zakim> + +1.512.255.aabb
14:00:51 <BBailey> zakim, BBailey is Bruce_Bailey
14:00:51 <Zakim> +Bruce_Bailey; got it
14:01:01 <MaryJo> MaryJo has joined #wcag2ict
14:01:09 <Zakim> + +01628590aacc
14:01:14 <Andi> zakim, who is noisy?
14:01:25 <Zakim> Andi, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Peter_Korn (76%), +01628590aacc (94%)
14:01:51 <Andi> zakim, +1.512.255.aabb is Mary_Jo_Mueller
14:01:51 <Zakim> +Mary_Jo_Mueller; got it
14:01:56 <Mike> Mike has joined #wcag2ict
14:01:56 <Zakim> +Shadi
14:02:04 <Andi> zakim, +01628590aacc is Kiran_Kaja
14:02:04 <Zakim> +Kiran_Kaja; got it
14:02:06 <shadi> zakim, mute me
14:02:06 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
14:02:19 <korn> korn has joined #wcag2ict
14:02:25 <Andi> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:02:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see Andi_Snow_Weaver, Bruce_Bailey, Peter_Korn, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Kiran_Kaja, Shadi (muted)
14:02:28 <Zakim> +??P15
14:02:30 <MaryJo> scribe: MaryJo
14:02:37 <Andi> zakim, ??P15 is Mike_Pluke
14:02:37 <Zakim> +Mike_Pluke; got it
14:02:41 <Zakim> + +1.410.965.aadd
14:02:56 <Zakim> +Judy
14:03:03 <Pierce> Pierce has joined #wcag2ict
14:03:06 <Andi> zakim, +1.410.965.aadd is Pierce_Crowell
14:03:06 <Zakim> +Pierce_Crowell; got it
14:03:15 <BBailey> zakim, mute me
14:03:15 <Zakim> sorry, BBailey, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:03:25 <Andi> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:03:25 <Zakim> On the phone I see Andi_Snow_Weaver, Bruce_Bailey, Peter_Korn, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Kiran_Kaja, Shadi (muted), Mike_Pluke, Pierce_Crowell, Judy
14:03:26 <BBailey> zakim, i am Bruce_Bailey
14:03:27 <Zakim> ok, BBailey, I now associate you with Bruce_Bailey
14:04:05 <MaryJo> zakim, next item
14:04:05 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Survey for September 28th Meeting https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/SEP262012/results" taken up [from Andi]
14:04:44 <janina> janina has joined #wcag2ict
14:05:13 <greggvanderheiden> greggvanderheiden has joined #wcag2ict
14:05:41 <Zakim> + +1.608.514.aaee
14:06:18 <Andi> zakim, +1.608.514.aaee is Gregg_Vanderheiden
14:06:18 <Zakim> +Gregg_Vanderheiden; got it
14:07:07 <Zakim> +??P20
14:07:09 <Loic> Loic has joined #wcag2ict
14:07:25 <janina> zakim, ??P20 is Janina_Sajka
14:07:25 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
14:07:43 <Zakim> +??P21
14:08:14 <Loic> Zakim,, ??P21 is Loic_Martinez
14:08:14 <Zakim> I don't understand ', ??P21 is Loic_Martinez', Loic
14:08:38 <BBailey> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/home/3-understandable/33-help-users-avoid-and-correct-mistakes/331-error-identification
14:09:01 <Pierce> +q
14:11:38 <Andi> q+
14:12:11 <korn1> korn1 has joined #wcag2ict
14:13:11 <MaryJo> Discussion on the note for 3.3.1 and how to make it more succinct as shown in proposal #6.
14:13:17 <Andi> zakim, ??P21 is Loic_Martinez
14:13:17 <Zakim> +Loic_Martinez; got it
14:13:36 <korn1> q+
14:13:41 <Andi> ack pierce
14:13:50 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
14:14:40 <David> David has joined #wcag2ict
14:16:59 <korn1> q?
14:17:40 <Andi> ack andi
14:18:20 <Andi> ack korn
14:19:09 <MaryJo> What constitutes sufficient information given to the user?  Sometimes the error message provided will cover both SC 3.3.1 and 3.3.3.
14:19:26 <MaryJo> The text must be programmatically determinable text.
14:20:17 <Pierce> +q
14:20:26 <MaryJo> s/programmatically determinable text./both programmatically determinable and visible text./
14:22:25 <korn1> Enter a value between 3 & 5: [ ]
14:23:43 <Pierce> +q
14:24:03 <MaryJo> If the user enters a value of 2, the value is automatically changed to a 3 and the '3' is only visually styled to indicate it shows up.
14:24:54 <MaryJo> Members of WCAG would probably say that this example doesn't pass the 3.3.1 SC because a description of the input error was not given to the user in text.
14:25:04 <korn1> q-
14:25:07 <korn1> q+
14:25:16 <Andi> ack pierce
14:25:38 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:25:49 <Mike> q+
14:26:03 <MaryJo> Mainframes don't have the ability to notify the user of an error such as this. So it isn't possible to implement in some software.
14:27:03 <Andi> ack korn
14:27:47 <MaryJo> The level A, AA, and AAA were set by WCAG based on both importance as well as implementability.  
14:28:06 <korn1> q-
14:28:11 <Andi> ack gregg
14:28:24 <Pierce> mainframes are a current technology
14:28:52 <Loic> q
14:28:59 <Loic> q+
14:30:28 <Andi> ack Mike
14:31:12 <Andi> ack loic
14:32:53 <Andi> the proposal being discussed is Proposal #6
14:33:33 <MaryJo> We can't say it doesn't apply to software when not all technologies can support it. 
14:35:19 <Andi>  If a user enters a value that is too high or too low, and the coding on the page automatically changes that value to fall within the allowed range, the user's error would still need to be described to them as required by the success criterion.
14:35:44 <korn1> Consider adding: "This error description and new changed value may also address SC 3.3.1"
14:36:02 <korn1> Or "Such an error description and new changed value..."
14:36:07 <korn1> q+
14:36:12 <Pierce> +1
14:36:38 <Andi> ack korn
14:37:03 <Pierce> +1
14:37:56 <Pierce> +q
14:38:55 <Andi> ack pierce
14:40:13 <greggvanderheiden>   If a user enters a value that is too high or too low, and the coding on the page automatically changes that value to fall within the allowed range, the user's error would still need to be described to them as required by the success criterion.    Such an error description telling the person of the changed value would meet both this this success criterion (Error identification)  and success criterion 3.3.3 (Error Suggestion). 
14:40:42 <Pierce> +1
14:41:04 <Pierce> +1+1
14:41:34 <MaryJo> RESOLUTION: Accept 3.3.1 proposal 6 as written.
14:41:37 <Mike> q+
14:42:55 <korn1> q+
14:44:36 <Andi> ack mike
14:45:17 <Andi> ack korn
14:46:04 <BBailey> zakim, mute me
14:46:04 <Zakim> Bruce_Bailey should now be muted
14:46:14 <MaryJo> Topic: Examples for 2.2.l, 2.2.2, and 2.2.3
14:46:21 <MaryJo> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/SEP262012/results#xq2
14:46:40 <BBailey> zakim, unmute me
14:46:40 <Zakim> Bruce_Bailey should no longer be muted
14:47:40 <MaryJo> We'll skip this because edits are not found in 2.2.1.
14:48:28 <MaryJo> topic: action-56, SC 3.3.4 updates
14:48:52 <MaryJo> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/SEP262012/results#xq3
14:50:08 <MaryJo> RESOLUTION: Accept note to be sent to WCAG for 3.3.4 as written.
14:51:32 <korn1> +1 Gregg - that's fine.
14:52:05 <Pierce> +1
14:52:10 <Pierce> + q
14:52:12 <Pierce> -1
14:52:18 <Pierce> +q
14:54:34 <Andi> ack pierce
14:54:56 <Andi> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/home/2-operable/22-provide-users-enough-time-to-read-and-use-content/221-timing-adjustable
14:57:26 <Pierce> +1
14:58:01 <Andi> Accept proposal on 2.2.1 Timing Adjustable labeled "Send the following to WCAG" for 2.2.1, 2.2.2, and 2.2.3
14:58:08 <MaryJo> RESOLUTION: Accept proposal on 2.2.1 Timing Adjustable labeled "Send the following to WCAG" for 2.2.1, 2.2.2, and 2.2.3.
14:59:11 <MaryJo> topic: Comment processing
15:00:07 <MaryJo> Andi is currently not being notified when a proposal is ready, so you need to send an email to tell her when the proposed resolution is ready for survey. 
15:01:26 <MaryJo> Would like for the 'assigned' field to be changed to the person that is working on the proposal.
15:01:47 <MaryJo> topic: LC-2663
15:01:58 <MaryJo> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/SEP262012/results#xq4
15:03:40 <korn1> +1 to MaryJo's text.
15:03:42 <MaryJo> Responses to these comments will always be preceded by a polite introduction and thank you for your comment, so reading the response by itself may seem abrupt on its own but will be toned down by the introduction.
15:04:28 <Pierce> +q
15:04:47 <Andi> ack pierce
15:06:02 <MaryJo> Some of the language from some of the other responses could be added to this, but would have to review the other comments to determine the details.
15:07:45 <korn1> +1
15:08:01 <Zakim> -Loic_Martinez
15:08:05 <MaryJo> RESOLUTION: Accept the proposed resolution as amended in LC-2663.
15:10:03 <Pierce> Here is a good statement to consider for this and other "SW won't fit" comments...or something similar
15:10:05 <Pierce> We agree that additional requirements are needed especially for software acting in platform role(s).   However, we are not charged with determining what the overall requirements for ICT should be. As you point out, these are the purview of the US Access Board and the EU M376 standards development team.
15:12:34 <Mike> q+
15:12:45 <Zakim> -Judy
15:13:11 <Andi> ack mike
15:13:32 <Zakim> +Judy
15:14:56 <MaryJo> topic: LC-2672
15:15:02 <MaryJo> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/SEP262012/results#xq13
15:16:17 <MaryJo> This comment is going to the same person as the previous issue.
15:18:36 <MaryJo> Resolution: Accept the proposed resolution to LC 2672.
15:19:25 <MaryJo> s/Resolution: Accept the proposed resolution to LC 2672./RESOLUTION: Accept the proposed resolution to LC 2672./
15:19:50 <MaryJo> Combine LC-2672 with the previous one LC-2663.
15:20:01 <MaryJo> topic: LC-2665
15:20:23 <MaryJo> s/2665/2655/
15:20:32 <MaryJo> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/SEP262012/results#xq5
15:20:49 <Mike> +1
15:20:51 <Judy> Judy has joined #wcag2ict
15:20:54 <korn1> +1 to that.
15:21:38 <MaryJo> Proposal was made to edit the response to include groups' comments.
15:22:24 <MaryJo> RESOLUTION: Accept LC-2655 as amended.
15:22:43 <korn1> +1 Andi
15:23:06 <MaryJo> topic: LC-2692: Need for WCAG 2.0 to update for new technologies
15:23:14 <MaryJo> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/SEP262012/results#xq6
15:26:09 <korn1> +1 to the text
15:26:25 <MaryJo> RESOLUTION: Accept LC-2692 as amended.
15:27:00 <MaryJo> topic: LC-2657 - Make the connection between accessibility and usability
15:27:11 <MaryJo> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/SEP262012/results#xq7
15:29:00 <Zakim> -Judy
15:29:12 <MaryJo> RESOLUTION: Accept LC-2657 as amended.
15:30:30 <MaryJo> topic: LC-2668 - Not a technical standard
15:30:53 <MaryJo> RESOLUTION: Accept LC-2668 as amended.
15:33:01 <MaryJo> RESOLUTION: Accept LC-2690 as amended.
15:34:09 <Zakim> -Bruce_Bailey
15:34:11 <Zakim> -Pierce_Crowell
15:34:12 <Zakim> -Peter_Korn
15:34:12 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
15:34:13 <Zakim> -Kiran_Kaja
15:34:13 <Zakim> -Mary_Jo_Mueller
15:34:14 <Zakim> -Gregg_Vanderheiden
15:34:18 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
15:34:20 <MaryJo> zakim, make minutes
15:34:20 <Zakim> I don't understand 'make minutes', MaryJo
15:34:32 <Zakim> -Andi_Snow_Weaver
15:34:33 <Zakim> -Mike_Pluke
15:34:34 <MaryJo> s/zakim, make minutes//
15:34:38 <Zakim> -Shadi
15:34:39 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has ended
15:34:39 <Zakim> Attendees were Andi_Snow_Weaver, Peter_Korn, Bruce_Bailey, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Shadi, Kiran_Kaja, Mike_Pluke, Judy, Pierce_Crowell, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Janina_Sajka, Loic_Martinez,
15:34:39 <Zakim> ... David_MacDonald
15:34:41 <MaryJo> rrsagent, make minutes
15:34:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/28-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
15:34:44 <korn1> korn1 has left #wcag2ict
15:34:48 <Mike> Mike has left #wcag2ict
15:34:53 <greggvanderheiden> greggvanderheiden has left #wcag2ict
15:39:31 <Judy> Judy has left #wcag2ict
15:46:00 <MaryJo> topic: LC 2690 - WCAG may not be suitable outside of desktop environment
15:46:30 <MaryJo> s/RESOLUTION: Accept LC-2690 as amended.//
15:46:55 <MaryJo> RESOLUTION: Accept LC-2690 as amended.
15:47:01 <MaryJo> rrsagent, make minutes
15:47:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/28-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
15:49:57 <MaryJo> s/LC-2655/LC-2655 - Why no acknowledgement of MSAA, IAccessible2, iOS VoiceOver, ... etc./
15:57:54 <MaryJo> s/LC-2672/LC-2672 - Applying WCAG to non-web ICT is an overreach/
15:58:15 <MaryJo> rrsagent, make minutes
15:58:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/28-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
15:59:37 <MaryJo> s/Accept LC-2655 - Why no acknowledgement of MSAA, IAccessible2, iOS VoiceOver, ... etc. as/Accept LC-2655 as/
16:00:27 <MaryJo> s/Topic: LC-2655/Topic: LC-2655 - Why no acknowledgement of MSAA, IAccessible2, iOS VoiceOver, ... etc./
16:00:37 <MaryJo> rrsagent, make minutes
16:00:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/28-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
16:01:31 <MaryJo> s/- Why no acknowledgement of MSAA, IAccessible2, iOS VoiceOver, ... etc.//
16:01:37 <MaryJo> rrsagent, make minutes
16:01:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/28-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
16:46:11 <MaryJo> zakim, bye
16:46:11 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag2ict
17:37:03 <janina> janina has left #wcag2ict