17:00:24 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webperf
17:00:24 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/26-webperf-irc
17:00:25 <JatinderMann> trackbot, start telecon
17:00:26 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
17:00:26 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #webperf
17:00:28 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WPWG
17:00:28 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
17:00:29 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Performance Working Group Teleconference
17:00:29 <trackbot> Date: 26 September 2012
17:00:33 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
17:00:37 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WPWG
17:00:37 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
17:00:39 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Performance Working Group Teleconference
17:00:41 <plh> zakim, this is per
17:00:41 <Zakim> ok, plh; that matches RWC_web-per()1:00PM
17:00:42 <trackbot> Date: 26 September 2012
17:00:50 <mnot> zakim, who is on the phone?
17:00:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.617.444.aaaa
17:00:55 <Zakim> +Plh
17:00:58 <mnot> zakim, aaaa is me
17:00:58 <Zakim> +mnot; got it
17:01:21 <Alois> Alois has joined #webperf
17:01:52 <Zakim> + +1.650.214.aabb
17:02:29 <plh> zakim, aabb is Tony
17:02:29 <Zakim> +Tony; got it
17:02:37 <plh> zakim, Tony also holds Will
17:02:37 <Zakim> +Will; got it
17:03:06 <plh> zakim, mnot also holds Mark?
17:03:06 <Zakim> +Mark?; got it
17:03:14 <Zakim> +Alois
17:03:39 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
17:03:59 <JatinderMann> present+ Jatinder
17:04:03 <JatinderMann> present+ plh
17:04:06 <JatinderMann> present+ Alois
17:04:11 <JatinderMann> present+ TonyG
17:04:15 <JatinderMann> present+ tobie
17:04:19 <Zakim> -mnot
17:04:21 <JatinderMann> present+ mnot
17:04:44 <mnot> sorry, someone just rebooted our phone; sec
17:05:07 <Zakim> +Arvind
17:05:25 <JatinderMann> present+ Arvind
17:07:33 <plh> mnot? how's the phone? still rebooting?
17:08:07 <Zakim> +mnot
17:08:10 <simonjam> simonjam has joined #webperf
17:08:20 <JatinderMann> present+ simonjam
17:09:18 <Alois_> Alois_ has joined #webperf
17:14:54 <JatinderMann> Mark: We would like to understand metrics taken from http 2.0 and see proof that there are real performance improvements in real use cases.
17:15:37 <JatinderMann> Mark: It could be that we can get a lot of that information out of the Timing specs, or it could be that we could look at improving the Timing specs based on the http 2.0 updates.
17:16:30 <JatinderMann> Matt: For example, how multiplexing is used. Memory compression, etc. Might be interesting for some people to get TCP information from client.
17:17:27 <tonyg> tonyg has joined #webperf
17:18:00 <JatinderMann> Will: I would love to see the data and compare with SPDY.
17:19:00 <JatinderMann> Arvind: We currently do have Navigation, Resource and User Timing. But we don't have memory usage measurements today. These can be considered in new specs, but not sure how to proceed though. If there is something you would really like to see us measure, please put that on the mailing list and we can spec it accordingly.
17:19:55 <JatinderMann> Mark: While we are working on http 2.0, we would like to see feedback on the changes we have made. We will need to work with browser vendors to get that data, but it may be that we do not need to standarize that. Or we can standarize it if we think it's the right thing to do.
17:21:11 <JatinderMann> Mark: The other aspect of things that might be interested to talk about is that I have a draft out of HTTP 2.0 Browser Hints. On how the browser can use these hints to make improvements. Everyone from a website or CDN gets really excited about, but all the browser people I talk to about are a bit more skeptical that it needs to be thought about it more.
17:21:21 <JatinderMann> Arvind: Is that an ITF draft?
17:22:09 <JatinderMann> Mark: It's just a document that happens to be on the ITF. I've made some more revisions to make it more practical. My overall interest is that there is a back channel between web servers and browsers to make sure you do the more performant action.
17:22:13 <plh> s/ITF/IETF/g
17:22:26 <tonyg> Proposal: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-nottingham-http-browser-hints-03
17:24:22 <JatinderMann> Tony: I'm curious what you think is the killer app here? As I understand there is a seperate manifest file, which will have overhead.
17:25:15 <JatinderMann> Mark: Different folks have different interest. Smaller headers is interesting to some folks. DNS hint or a very small header to notify the browser that hints are available to the site is something I want to add. Realisitically, I doubt every site will use this on the internet.
17:25:52 <JatinderMann> Mark: If I have it my way, there won't be a DNS option.
17:26:36 <JatinderMann> Plh: Mark, yesterday you were mentioning that Akamai is using Navigation Timing, that's great.
17:26:43 <JatinderMann> Mark: Yes, we are internally.
17:26:57 <plh> http://www.w3.org/wiki/Web_Performance/Publications
17:27:03 <plh> http://w3c-test.org/webperf/specs/NavigationTiming2/
17:27:15 <JatinderMann> Plh: If you have any suggestions on how to improve Navigation Timing, please do make those suggestions as we are working on the next version of the spec.
17:27:45 <JatinderMann> Mark: We will follow up and get back to you on the mailing list.
17:28:42 <mnot> zakim, agenda?
17:28:42 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
17:29:08 <JatinderMann> Topic: Web Perf Workshop
17:29:09 <JatinderMann> http://www.w3.org/2012/11/performance-workshop/
17:31:24 <JatinderMann> Plh: I have drafted a call for participation document.
17:34:31 <plh> http://w3c-test.org/webperf/tests/submission/Google/HighResolutionTime/test_cross_frame_start.html
17:35:29 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: We should share this paricipation document with the Web Perf WG.
17:35:34 <JatinderMann> Plh: I'll get that out soon.
17:35:39 <JatinderMann> Topic: Test Cases
17:35:41 <plh> http://w3c-test.org/webperf/tests/submission/W3C/HighResolutionTime/basic.html
17:35:50 <plh> http://w3c-test.org/webperf/tests/submission/W3C/HighResolutionTime/monotonic-clock.html
17:37:22 <JatinderMann> Tony: I have updated the test_cross_frame_start.html test to match the spec.
17:39:35 <JatinderMann> Plh: I have updated two tests. Can Microsoft and Google review these tests?
17:40:03 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: I will review these this week.
17:46:48 <Zakim> -Arvind
17:46:50 <Zakim> -mnot
17:46:51 <Zakim> -Tony
17:46:53 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
17:46:53 <Zakim> -Alois
17:46:57 <Zakim> -Plh
17:46:58 <Zakim> RWC_web-per()1:00PM has ended
17:46:58 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.617.444.aaaa, Plh, mnot, +1.650.214.aabb, Tony, Will, Mark?, Alois, [Microsoft], Arvind
17:47:11 <JatinderMann> Topic: Web Workers Support
17:48:23 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: There was a discussion on the mailing list on whether we should support the High Resolution Time now() method in Web Workers. I think there is no reason that context shouldn't get the High Res Time. There was also a mention of whether now() should live on 'self' and not 'performance'. I disagree with that approach as it will cause confusion and make it hard to port code to workers.
17:48:38 <JatinderMann> Tony: I agree with making performance.now() available in workers.
17:49:06 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: There was also a mention of whether or not we want to make the Timing methods and properties on 'performance' also available on workers.
17:49:42 <JatinderMann> Alois: From a tooling point of view, if they are available, we would want to use a worker background thread to gather the Timing data rather than using a foreground ui thread.
17:50:02 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: The spec will need to explictly call the expected behavior for shared workers or call them out of scope.
17:50:34 <JatinderMann> Tony: I'm not sure if will even be techincally possible to make Timing data available to the worker due to constrains in the worker spec. I need to review this in more detail.
17:50:56 <JatinderMann> plh: This sounds like details that should be covered in the Navigation Timing 2 spec.
17:51:23 <JatinderMann> Jatinder: Agreed. I will send mail out thoughts to the mailing list. We can continue the discussion there.
17:51:27 <JatinderMann> rrsagent, generate minutes
17:51:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/26-webperf-minutes.html JatinderMann
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