13:53:49 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #eval
13:53:49 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/20-eval-irc
13:54:19 <Zakim> WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has now started
13:54:26 <Zakim> +MartijnHoutepen
13:55:33 <MartijnHoutepen> regrets: Shadi, Kerstin, Detlev
13:56:35 <MartijnHoutepen> trackbot, start meeting
13:56:37 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:56:39 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 3825
13:56:39 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
13:56:40 <trackbot> Meeting: WCAG 2.0 Evaluation Methodology Task Force Teleconference
13:56:40 <trackbot> Date: 20 September 2012
13:56:58 <MartijnHoutepen> regrets: Shadi, Kerstin, Detlev
13:57:16 <kathy> kathy has joined #eval
13:58:18 <ericvelleman> ericvelleman has joined #eval
13:58:22 <MartijnHoutepen> agenda+ New editor draft
13:59:14 <MartijnHoutepen> zakim, what's on the agenda
13:59:14 <Zakim> I don't understand 'what's on the agenda', MartijnHoutepen
13:59:29 <MartijnHoutepen> zakim, what is the agenda?
13:59:29 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
13:59:31 <Zakim> 1. Comments by WCAG WG for approval by EvalTF [from shadi]
13:59:31 <Zakim> 2. Open comments [from shadi]
13:59:31 <Zakim> 3. New graphics [from shadi]
13:59:31 <Zakim> 4. New editor draft [from MartijnHoutepen]
13:59:55 <MartijnHoutepen> zakim, remove agendum 1
13:59:55 <Zakim> agendum 1, Comments by WCAG WG for approval by EvalTF, dropped
13:59:58 <MartijnHoutepen> zakim, remove agendum 2
13:59:58 <Zakim> agendum 2, Open comments, dropped
14:00:00 <MartijnHoutepen> zakim, remove agendum 3
14:00:02 <Zakim> agendum 3, New graphics, dropped
14:00:32 <MartijnHoutepen> agenda+ What happens now?
14:00:54 <MartijnHoutepen> agenda+ Issue and action tracker 
14:00:58 <MartijnHoutepen> zakim, what is the agenda?
14:00:59 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
14:00:59 <Zakim> 4. New editor draft [from MartijnHoutepen]
14:00:59 <Zakim> 5. What happens now? [from MartijnHoutepen]
14:00:59 <Zakim> 6. Issue and action tracker [from MartijnHoutepen]
14:01:28 <ericvelleman> I am trying to call in, but takes a bit more, just a moment
14:01:43 <MartijnHoutepen> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:01:43 <Zakim> I notice WAI_ERTWG(Eval TF)10:00AM has restarted
14:01:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see MartijnHoutepen, Kathy, [IPcaller], Katie_Haritos-Shea
14:01:53 <vivienne> zakim, IPcaller is me
14:01:53 <Zakim> +vivienne; got it
14:02:07 <vivienne> zakim, mute me
14:02:09 <Zakim> vivienne should now be muted
14:02:10 <Zakim> +Mike_
14:02:26 <MartijnHoutepen> scribe:Katie
14:02:40 <MartijnHoutepen> scribe: Katie
14:03:04 <agarrison> agarrison has joined #eval
14:03:09 <ericvelleman> Just a moment, my phone is doing strange things..
14:03:12 <MartijnHoutepen> regrets: Shadi, Detlev, Kerstin, Moe
14:03:19 <Zakim> +Eric
14:03:22 <agarrison> Sorry, running a few minutes late.
14:03:34 <Mike_Elledge> Mike_Elledge has joined #eval
14:03:44 <Sarah_Swierenga> Sarah_Swierenga has joined #eval
14:04:09 <Ryladog> Ryladog has joined #eval
14:04:15 <MartijnHoutepen> zakim, mute me
14:04:15 <Zakim> MartijnHoutepen should now be muted
14:04:25 <Zakim> +Sarah_Swierenga
14:04:34 <MartijnHoutepen> zakim, what is on the agenda?
14:04:34 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
14:04:35 <Zakim> 4. New editor draft [from MartijnHoutepen]
14:04:35 <Zakim> 5. What happens now? [from MartijnHoutepen]
14:04:35 <Zakim> 6. Issue and action tracker [from MartijnHoutepen]
14:04:55 <MartijnHoutepen> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20120915
14:05:10 <Ryladog> rrsagent, make minutes
14:05:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/20-eval-minutes.html Ryladog
14:05:21 <MartijnHoutepen> diff version https://www.w3.org/2007/10/htmldiff?doc1=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FER%2Fconformance%2FED-methodology-20120910&doc2=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2FER%2Fconformance%2FED-methodology-20120915
14:05:38 <Ryladog> Agendum 1
14:06:10 <vivienne> looks all good to me
14:06:12 <ericvelleman> q?
14:06:22 <Mike_Elledge> +1
14:06:49 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:07:05 <Ryladog> EV: Do we agree on Editors Draft?
14:07:06 <MartijnHoutepen> ack me
14:07:17 <Zakim> -MartijnHoutepen
14:07:22 <agarrison> zakim, ipcaller is me 
14:07:22 <Zakim> +agarrison; got it
14:08:04 <Zakim> +MartijnHoutepen
14:08:06 <Ryladog> EV: I did nit recieve any changes. I will be turning to it
14:08:11 <Ryladog> Agenda 3
14:08:30 <Ryladog> EV: Last time we turned into a working draft
14:08:49 <korn> korn has joined #eval
14:09:03 <Ryladog> EV: It is not too different. Shadi will edit. 20th October ends the public review
14:09:03 <vivienne> q+
14:09:23 <ericvelleman> q?
14:09:25 <vivienne> ack me
14:09:27 <Ryladog> EV: We will have time to prepare for Lyon TPAC
14:09:50 <Ryladog> Vivianne: What is the review process for MUSTs?
14:10:03 <Ryladog> Vivienne: What is the method?
14:10:32 <vivienne> q+
14:10:52 <Ryladog> EV: W3C puts in a Public Draft mode, and we can send to our friends, and it will be announced on a mailing list
14:11:01 <Zakim> +[Oracle]
14:11:03 <MartijnHoutepen> ack vivienne
14:11:10 <korn> Zakim, Oracle has Peter_Korn
14:11:11 <Zakim> +Peter_Korn; got it
14:11:42 <Ryladog> Vivienne: Distro list is a way to get it to a wider audience for the WAI R&D
14:11:57 <Ryladog> EV: Let us ask Shadi to do that
14:12:11 <Ryladog> R&D
14:12:24 <vivienne> zakim, mute me
14:12:24 <Zakim> vivienne should now be muted
14:12:35 <vivienne> ack me
14:12:50 <Ryladog> PK: I dont recall being on that list
14:13:09 <Ryladog> Vivienne: Can we check with Shadi
14:13:28 <vivienne> zakim, mute me
14:13:28 <Zakim> vivienne should now be muted
14:13:45 <Ryladog> Action Item Eric: Ask Shadi about the R&D Working Group list
14:13:45 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Item
14:14:03 <vivienne> Sorry Katie, that should be the RDWG group
14:14:03 <Ryladog> ACTION: Eric: Ask Shadi about the R&D Working Group list
14:14:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-6 - Ask Shadi about the R&D Working Group list [on Eric Velleman - due 2012-09-27].
14:14:15 <ericvelleman> q?
14:14:20 <Mike_Elledge> ?
14:15:00 <Ryladog> EV: Shadi is traveling now, he might be able to turn in into a public working draft later today
14:15:04 <Mike_Elledge> q+
14:15:17 <ericvelleman> q?
14:15:42 <Ryladog> EV: While we are receiving the comments I suggest we work on the issues, not the comments at first
14:16:29 <ericvelleman> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/2011/eval/track/
14:16:37 <Ryladog> EV: Please send it to as many lists as you know for this review. We have an issue tracked we opened it
14:16:48 <MartijnHoutepen> q- mike
14:16:49 <Ryladog> EV: We have an Issue and Action summary
14:16:51 <Mike_Elledge> +1 Issue tracker is great!
14:17:05 <Ryladog> EV: We will discuss the sampling and other items
14:17:33 <Ryladog> EV: I will add them to the issuea in the tracker, I will make an agenda for the next meeting to discuss each week on the call
14:17:44 <vivienne> sounds good Eric
14:17:48 <MartijnHoutepen> +1
14:17:53 <kathy> fine
14:17:54 <Mike_Elledge> +1
14:17:54 <Sarah_Swierenga> +1
14:17:55 <agarrison> +1
14:17:59 <Ryladog> EV: Then we will have at least a months to cover all of the issues on the list. Is that OK with everyone?
14:18:13 <Ryladog> Group agrees
14:19:03 <vivienne> sure
14:19:04 <korn> +1
14:19:06 <vivienne> q+
14:19:06 <MartijnHoutepen> +1
14:19:08 <kathy> +1
14:19:13 <Ryladog> EV: Today we want to publish a Public Working Draft at some time later today. We will disseminate for review.
14:19:20 <ericvelleman> q?
14:19:23 <vivienne> ack me
14:19:48 <Ryladog> Vivienna: Do we have an agenda for the TPAC? 
14:19:58 <vivienne> zakim, mute me
14:19:58 <Zakim> vivienne should now be muted
14:20:04 <korn> q+
14:20:05 <Ryladog> EV: I am not sure, I think that is a good discussion fir this group
14:20:17 <Ryladog> q+
14:20:27 <ericvelleman> q?
14:20:57 <Ryladog> Peter Kron: I will not be able to be at TPAC, it would be nice to catch some specific times can call in
14:21:15 <Ryladog> EV: Yes, I will discuss with Shadi if we cabn have IRC
14:21:28 <MartijnHoutepen> q- korn
14:21:31 <Mike_Elledge> q+
14:21:34 <ericvelleman> q?
14:21:36 <Ryladog> ACTION: Discuss IRC with Shadi
14:21:36 <trackbot> Sorry, couldn't find user - Discuss
14:22:05 <korn> +1!!
14:22:11 <korn> That's a great idea!
14:22:24 <korn> q+
14:22:28 <ericvelleman> q?
14:22:30 <MartijnHoutepen> Katie: will we have an opportunity to perform actual evaluation at tpac?
14:22:34 <Mike_Elledge> +1
14:22:36 <vivienne> yes, very much.  I'm working on one at the moment
14:22:39 <kathy> good idea
14:22:40 <MartijnHoutepen> q- Ryladog
14:22:42 <Ryladog> Katie Haritos-Shea: I suggest running through a test drive of our methodology at the TPAC
14:22:50 <Ryladog> Griup Agrees
14:23:06 <ericvelleman> q?
14:23:16 <Ryladog> EV: The other important thing is that we try it and see what we cone up with
14:23:34 <vivienne> yes please Mike
14:23:35 <Ryladog> Mike: I just put them into a word document, that includes the comments
14:23:38 <ericvelleman> q?
14:23:38 <Tim> Tim has joined #eval
14:23:44 <MartijnHoutepen> q- mike
14:23:46 <Ryladog> Mike: I can send around
14:23:54 <Ryladog> EV: yes, please do
14:25:01 <Ryladog> Peter Korn: I would like to see us do a run through of our methodology. We had great success with run throughs on the TEITAC, it will be very valuable to do this
14:26:15 <Ryladog> Peter Korn: We should NOT pick some well known property, but use an anonymous named site. At TEITAC members used some of their own prodcuct to test
14:26:52 <Ryladog> Peter Korn: Industry members chose some of there own products. We chose the Solaris OS for example
14:28:04 <vivienne> q+
14:28:15 <MartijnHoutepen> q- korn
14:28:18 <Ryladog> Peter Korn: It help greatly to surface problems. It will be easier if someone offers their own products - not the New York Times. Best not to give the idea that the W3C tests website
14:28:45 <Ryladog> Peter Korn: Therefore it will be best that someone offer their own site
14:28:57 <Zakim> +Tim_Boland
14:29:20 <Ryladog> Peter Korn" Or, test the W3C site. It is Important to anonymise
14:29:36 <Ryladog> q+
14:29:41 <ericvelleman> q?
14:30:13 <kathy> q+
14:31:03 <vivienne> ack me
14:31:29 <Ryladog> Vivienne: I agree, what if we approach organizations?
14:31:32 <Ryladog> The focus is on.....testing our methodology in process (NOT the web sites)
14:31:58 <vivienne> zakim, mute me
14:31:58 <Zakim> vivienne should now be muted
14:32:34 <Tim> q+
14:32:43 <ericvelleman> q?
14:32:45 <Ryladog> Peter Korn: Just make clear that we are testing our methodolg
14:32:48 <MartijnHoutepen> q- Ryladog
14:32:51 <kathy> ack me
14:33:10 <Ryladog> Kathy: Be sure that we are including Web appllications
14:33:38 <Ryladog> Kathy: There are still holes, and someone in our group is working on one, that would be great
14:33:44 <Ryladog> EV: Very good
14:34:08 <Ryladog> Tim: How do we assess at the end. ?
14:34:13 <Ryladog> q+
14:34:20 <ericvelleman> q?
14:34:22 <korn> q+
14:34:26 <MartijnHoutepen> q- Tim
14:34:39 <MartijnHoutepen> q- Ryladog
14:35:12 <korn> We should have a list of questions written down ahead of our review.
14:35:14 <ericvelleman> q?
14:35:15 <Ryladog> Katie: We are trying to determine where we have problems
14:35:37 <MartijnHoutepen> ack korn
14:35:38 <Ryladog> Tim: We need to define what is our methodologies and what are issue
14:36:01 <Ryladog> Peter: Maybe we should have some questions in advance
14:36:01 <kathy> q+
14:36:29 <korn> Key questions I think include:
14:36:29 <korn>  1. Does the methodology cover the situations arising from this website?
14:36:29 <korn>  2. Are there significant functiunality / parts we aren't reaching (statistical methodology)?
14:36:29 <korn>  3. Are there
14:36:40 <kathy> q-
14:36:43 <Ryladog> EV: Maybe it is a good idea to start a discussion on the list what would our trial look like. Let have this talked about on the list
14:37:02 <Ryladog> Peter: Would you be willing to start this?
14:37:08 <vivienne> I think the trial is a great idea
14:37:24 <Ryladog> Peter Korn: Yes, I am starting it right now
14:37:48 <Ryladog> EV: do all agree? Homework is what will our test/trail look like?
14:38:42 <Ryladog> EV: We will set up an agenda
14:38:51 <Ryladog> Any other issues?
14:39:09 <Ryladog> Tim: When will the updated draft be published?
14:39:23 <ericvelleman> q?
14:39:24 <Ryladog> EV: Probably tonight when Shadi is finished with his travel
14:39:50 <Ryladog> EV: I have to congradulate us all. Hopefully we will get many comments
14:39:54 <MartijnHoutepen> zakim, unmute me
14:39:54 <Zakim> MartijnHoutepen was not muted, MartijnHoutepen
14:39:55 <vivienne> good night all.
14:39:58 <vivienne> vivienne has left #eval
14:39:59 <Zakim> -[Oracle]
14:39:59 <Zakim> -Sarah_Swierenga
14:40:03 <MartijnHoutepen> trackbot, end meeting
14:40:03 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
14:40:03 <Zakim> -Kathy
14:40:03 <Sarah_Swierenga> bye
14:40:05 <Zakim> -agarrison
14:40:06 <korn> korn has left #eval
14:40:07 <Zakim> -Tim_Boland
14:40:08 <Mike_Elledge> Bye!
14:40:09 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been MartijnHoutepen, Kathy, Katie_Haritos-Shea, vivienne, Mike_, Eric, Sarah_Swierenga, agarrison, Peter_Korn, Tim_Boland
14:40:11 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:40:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/20-eval-minutes.html trackbot
14:40:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
14:40:12 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/09/20-eval-actions.rdf :
14:40:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Eric: Ask Shadi about the R&D Working Group list [1]
14:40:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/09/20-eval-irc#T14-14-03-1
14:40:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Discuss IRC with Shadi [2]
14:40:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/09/20-eval-irc#T14-21-36
14:40:17 <Zakim> -vivienne