IRC log of wcag2ict on 2012-09-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:05:31 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
14:05:31 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/11-wcag2ict-irc
14:05:47 [Judy]
zakim, who's here?
14:05:47 [Zakim]
sorry, Judy, I don't know what conference this is
14:05:52 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Judy, greggvanderheiden, alex_, korn, Mike, Kiran_Kaja, MaryJo, MichaelC, trackbot
14:06:17 [greggvanderheiden]
zakim, greggvanderheiden is gregg
14:06:17 [Zakim]
sorry, greggvanderheiden, I do not recognize a party named 'greggvanderheiden'
14:06:59 [MaryJo]
scribe: MaryJo
14:07:18 [Mike]
agenda+ Proposal from Gregg of how to process comments on July 27, 2012 WCGA2ICT Working Draft [2] agenda+ Survey on Review Process [3] agenda+ Decisions on how to proceed with comment processing agenda+ Survey on 3.2.3 Consistent Navigation [4 ] agenda+ Glossary - Part 4 Survey - "supplemental content" [5 ] agenda+ Action Items, beginning with ACTION-44 [ 6]
14:07:59 [Judy]
zakim, this is WAI_(WCAG2ICT)
14:07:59 [Zakim]
ok, Judy; that matches WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM
14:08:17 [janina]
janina has joined #wcag2ict
14:08:27 [Judy]
zakim, drop item 1
14:08:27 [Zakim]
agendum 1, Proposal from Gregg of how to process comments on July 27, 2012 WCGA2ICT Working Draft [2] agenda+ Survey on Review Process [3] agenda+ Decisions on how to proceed with
14:08:30 [Zakim]
... comment processing agenda+ Survey on 3.2.3 Consistent Navigation [4 ] agenda+ Glossary - Part 4 Survey - "supplemental content" [5 ] agenda+ Action Items, beginning with
14:08:30 [Zakim]
... ACTION-44, dropped
14:08:37 [Zakim]
+??P27
14:08:51 [janina]
zakim, ??P27 is Janina_Sajka
14:08:51 [Zakim]
+Janina_Sajka; got it
14:08:57 [Judy]
agenda+ Proposal from Gregg of how to process comments on July 27, 2012 WCGA2ICT Working Draft [2]
14:08:57 [Judy]
agenda+ Assigning people to process comments – Volunteers extremely welcome!
14:08:57 [Judy]
agenda+ Survey on 3.2.3 Consistent Navigation [3]
14:08:57 [Judy]
agenda+ Glossary - Part 4 Survey – “supplemental content” [4]
14:08:57 [Judy]
agenda+ Action Items, beginning with ACTION-44 [5]
14:08:58 [Judy]
agenda+ Confirm next meeting time; action items;
14:09:20 [Judy]
chair: Mike_Pluke
14:09:26 [Judy]
zakim, who's on the phone?
14:09:26 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [Microsoft], Mary_Jo_Mueller, +1.608.514.aaaa, ??P9, +0162859aabb, [Oracle], Judy, Janina_Sajka
14:09:40 [korn]
Zakim, Oracle has Peter_Korn
14:09:40 [Zakim]
+Peter_Korn; got it
14:10:05 [alex_]
Zakim, Microsoft has alex
14:10:05 [Zakim]
+alex; got it
14:10:57 [greggvanderheiden]
zakim, +1.608 is Gregg
14:10:57 [Zakim]
+Gregg; got it
14:11:23 [Mike]
zakim ??P9 is Mike
14:11:42 [Kiran_Kaja]
Zakim, +01628 is Kiran_Kaja
14:11:42 [Zakim]
+Kiran_Kaja; got it
14:12:09 [Mike]
zakim, ??P9 is Mike
14:12:09 [Zakim]
+Mike; got it
14:12:20 [Mike]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20120911/results
14:12:38 [Judy]
zakim, take up next item
14:12:38 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Proposal from Gregg of how to process comments on July 27, 2012 WCGA2ICT Working Draft" taken up [from 2]
14:12:42 [Judy]
https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/review-process
14:14:38 [MaryJo]
The URL above is the first page, with 2 additional detailed pages that give details of the process.
14:15:02 [MaryJo]
s/additional detailed pages/additional pages/
14:15:51 [korn]
q+
14:16:20 [MaryJo]
This is the process that has worked in the past. Need volunteers for entering comments and for drafting responses. Entering comments is an easier job.
14:17:14 [Mike]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag2ict-comments/
14:17:38 [Mike]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-comments-wcag20/
14:18:37 [Zakim]
-Kiran_Kaja
14:19:41 [greggvanderheiden]
11 from olaf
14:19:47 [greggvanderheiden]
11 from duff
14:19:56 [greggvanderheiden]
plus 9 more from duff
14:20:30 [MaryJo]
In the wcag2ict comments there are 14 messages. Two comments have come in that have background in kiosks.
14:20:32 [alex_]
closed functionality is still in the list of outstanding issues
14:20:40 [greggvanderheiden]
plus 1 from neil
14:22:11 [MaryJo]
There is one from Neil from the other wcag20 comments list.
14:23:02 [MaryJo]
We should not be responding directly to comments on the list because these responses are posted on this public list.
14:25:21 [Judy]
q+
14:25:37 [Judy]
q+ to comment on when groups take comments
14:25:48 [korn]
q-
14:26:20 [MaryJo]
Deadline for comments was Friday 7 Sept. We answer the comments that were on time first.
14:27:08 [MaryJo]
We'll try to close them out. If comments come a day or so late, they will be entered in with the on-time comments.
14:29:13 [MaryJo]
Anything that is much later will have to be handled on a case-by-case basis, as we might have a newer public draft already.
14:29:29 [Kiran]
Kiran has joined #wcag2ict
14:30:15 [Zakim]
+Kiran_Kaja
14:30:21 [MaryJo]
zakim, next item
14:30:21 [Zakim]
I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, MaryJo
14:30:50 [greggvanderheiden]
q?
14:30:53 [greggvanderheiden]
ack j
14:30:53 [Zakim]
Judy, you wanted to comment on when groups take comments
14:31:01 [MaryJo]
zakim, next item
14:31:01 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Assigning people to process comments – Volunteers extremely welcome!" taken up [from Judy]
14:31:32 [Mike]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20120911/results
14:31:33 [greggvanderheiden]
zakim, previous item
14:31:33 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'previous item', greggvanderheiden
14:40:17 [MaryJo]
There is a first pass review of draft answers by the editors to check if the response is ready for survey or not.
14:41:33 [MaryJo]
This is to prevent a lot of negative feedback which might be daunting to volunteers who draft the response.
14:44:53 [MaryJo]
For the instructions for proposing an answer, Andi and Mike will have to work out who the answers should be assigned to.
14:46:27 [MaryJo]
The deadline for the survey on these instructions will be extended so we can add comments as we start to work this process.
14:47:24 [MaryJo]
Deadline will be extended to Friday 14 Sept.
14:49:31 [Judy]
q+
14:50:41 [MaryJo]
Volunteers to create issues from the comments: Mary Jo Mueller, Mike Pluke, Peter Korn (after a week or two)
14:51:02 [korn]
Zakim, who is talking?
14:51:02 [Judy]
zakim, mute me
14:51:02 [Zakim]
Judy should now be muted
14:51:12 [Zakim]
korn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Mike (55%), Gregg (5%)
14:54:48 [MaryJo]
zakim, next item
14:54:48 [Zakim]
I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, MaryJo
14:55:07 [Judy]
q-
14:55:07 [greggvanderheiden]
q?
14:55:10 [MaryJo]
zakim, next item
14:55:10 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "Survey on 3.2.3 Consistent Navigation" taken up [from 3]
14:55:28 [Mike]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20120910/results
14:56:52 [korn]
q+
14:58:44 [greggvanderheiden]
q+
14:58:50 [greggvanderheiden]
ack k
14:58:52 [Mike]
q+
15:00:05 [MaryJo]
The term 'navigational mechanisms' needs to be defined.
15:00:52 [korn]
q+
15:02:16 [MaryJo]
We should ask WCAG to create the definition.
15:03:27 [MaryJo]
For application UI's, it is ok to add/remove items from toolbars, etc. The meaning of the SC is to keep the same relative order of the items in the toolbar.
15:06:58 [Mike]
q+
15:07:19 [greggvanderheiden]
nav mech : mechanisms that a person uses to move about in the entity (e.g. content, document, software)
15:07:26 [greggvanderheiden]
q-
15:07:29 [greggvanderheiden]
q+
15:07:40 [greggvanderheiden]
ack k
15:07:54 [greggvanderheiden]
ack m
15:08:16 [MaryJo]
We need to fully understand what this SC means in the software world and should have examples to demonstrate the meaning.
15:08:52 [korn]
q+
15:08:59 [Kiran]
q+
15:09:12 [Mike]
q+
15:10:24 [Kiran]
I was looking at Flash techniques and there is no technique for SC 3.2.3 http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20-TECHS/flash.html
15:10:57 [Kiran]
And I think Flash is the thing that comes close to being software/web software.
15:11:12 [MaryJo]
The next step is to define what does and does not constitute a navigational mechanism.
15:11:54 [MaryJo]
We also need to agree upon some examples to get a group consensus on which are/are not navigational mechanism.
15:12:54 [Kiran]
q-
15:13:04 [greggvanderheiden]
q_
15:13:06 [korn]
q-
15:13:07 [greggvanderheiden]
q-
15:15:18 [greggvanderheiden]
q+
15:15:22 [greggvanderheiden]
ack m
15:15:54 [greggvanderheiden]
nav mech : mechanisms that a person uses to move about in the entity (e.g. content, document, software)
15:16:04 [korn]
q+
15:18:55 [Mike]
Navigating mechanism - something that helps you move from one "place" to another.
15:19:12 [MaryJo]
Navigation within a UI control shouldn't be considered a 'navigational mechanism'. However if the control is used to navigate to other spots in the application, the control is used as a navigational mechanism and it might be repeated in various places.
15:19:26 [Mike]
In the Web - from section to section - from page to page
15:20:34 [Judy]
zakim, unmute me
15:20:34 [Zakim]
Judy should no longer be muted
15:21:05 [greggvanderheiden]
q+
15:21:20 [korn]
q-
15:21:37 [MaryJo]
Perhaps we should have some examples that describe both what is or is not a navigational mechanism. What about a dialog box would be a navigational mechanism: OK, close buttons vs Escape key, etc.
15:21:43 [Mike]
q+
15:22:47 [korn]
q+
15:24:20 [janina]
+1 to gv
15:24:40 [MaryJo]
As an example, this SC was meant to cover placement of the navigation menus (top or side or bottom - keeping placement consistent), and relative order of items in the menus being consistent.
15:25:09 [MaryJo]
We will have to continue this discussion via email.
15:26:45 [MaryJo]
Gregg will capture Mike's suggestion for an update into a proposal in the wiki.
15:27:57 [MaryJo]
Peter and Kiran will help come up with some examples for us to survey, as well as some notes.
15:29:50 [MaryJo]
zakim, next item
15:29:50 [Zakim]
I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, MaryJo
15:30:02 [korn]
q-
15:30:13 [korn]
ack Mike
15:30:28 [MaryJo]
ack g
15:30:33 [MaryJo]
zakim, next item
15:30:33 [Zakim]
agendum 5. "Glossary - Part 4 Survey – “supplemental content”" taken up [from 4]
15:30:58 [Zakim]
-Gregg
15:31:25 [greggvanderheiden]
kicked off and can't log back in
15:31:27 [Mike]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/GLOSSARY4/results#xq10
15:31:38 [greggvanderheiden]
zakim says closed
15:32:01 [MaryJo]
This definition will be left on hold.
15:32:38 [MaryJo]
zakim, next item
15:32:38 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "Action Items, beginning with ACTION-44" taken up [from 5]
15:32:48 [MaryJo]
Not discussed.
15:32:53 [Zakim]
-Janina_Sajka
15:32:54 [korn]
korn has left #wcag2ict
15:32:56 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft]
15:32:57 [Zakim]
-Judy
15:32:58 [Zakim]
-Mary_Jo_Mueller
15:32:59 [Zakim]
-Kiran_Kaja
15:33:04 [janina]
janina has left #wcag2ict
15:33:09 [Zakim]
-Mike
15:33:45 [MaryJo]
zakim, next item
15:33:45 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "Confirm next meeting time; action items;" taken up [from Judy]
15:35:50 [Zakim]
-[Oracle]
15:35:52 [Zakim]
WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has ended
15:35:52 [Zakim]
Attendees were Mary_Jo_Mueller, +1.608.514.aaaa, +0162859aabb, Judy, Janina_Sajka, Peter_Korn, alex, Gregg, Kiran_Kaja, Mike
16:02:20 [MaryJo]
zakim, make minutes
16:02:20 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'make minutes', MaryJo
16:02:40 [MaryJo]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:02:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/11-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
16:03:31 [MaryJo]
zakim, bye
16:03:31 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #wcag2ict
17:03:59 [Judy]
Judy has joined #wcag2ict
18:17:01 [MaryJo]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:17:01 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/11-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
18:46:29 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make log world
18:46:33 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:46:33 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/11-wcag2ict-minutes.html MichaelC
19:08:31 [Judy]
Judy has joined #wcag2ict