IRC log of wcag2ict on 2012-09-11
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:05:31 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
- 14:05:31 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/11-wcag2ict-irc
- 14:05:47 [Judy]
- zakim, who's here?
- 14:05:47 [Zakim]
- sorry, Judy, I don't know what conference this is
- 14:05:52 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, Judy, greggvanderheiden, alex_, korn, Mike, Kiran_Kaja, MaryJo, MichaelC, trackbot
- 14:06:17 [greggvanderheiden]
- zakim, greggvanderheiden is gregg
- 14:06:17 [Zakim]
- sorry, greggvanderheiden, I do not recognize a party named 'greggvanderheiden'
- 14:06:59 [MaryJo]
- scribe: MaryJo
- 14:07:18 [Mike]
- agenda+ Proposal from Gregg of how to process comments on July 27, 2012 WCGA2ICT Working Draft [2] agenda+ Survey on Review Process [3] agenda+ Decisions on how to proceed with comment processing agenda+ Survey on 3.2.3 Consistent Navigation [4 ] agenda+ Glossary - Part 4 Survey - "supplemental content" [5 ] agenda+ Action Items, beginning with ACTION-44 [ 6]
- 14:07:59 [Judy]
- zakim, this is WAI_(WCAG2ICT)
- 14:07:59 [Zakim]
- ok, Judy; that matches WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM
- 14:08:17 [janina]
- janina has joined #wcag2ict
- 14:08:27 [Judy]
- zakim, drop item 1
- 14:08:27 [Zakim]
- agendum 1, Proposal from Gregg of how to process comments on July 27, 2012 WCGA2ICT Working Draft [2] agenda+ Survey on Review Process [3] agenda+ Decisions on how to proceed with
- 14:08:30 [Zakim]
- ... comment processing agenda+ Survey on 3.2.3 Consistent Navigation [4 ] agenda+ Glossary - Part 4 Survey - "supplemental content" [5 ] agenda+ Action Items, beginning with
- 14:08:30 [Zakim]
- ... ACTION-44, dropped
- 14:08:37 [Zakim]
- +??P27
- 14:08:51 [janina]
- zakim, ??P27 is Janina_Sajka
- 14:08:51 [Zakim]
- +Janina_Sajka; got it
- 14:08:57 [Judy]
- agenda+ Proposal from Gregg of how to process comments on July 27, 2012 WCGA2ICT Working Draft [2]
- 14:08:57 [Judy]
- agenda+ Assigning people to process comments – Volunteers extremely welcome!
- 14:08:57 [Judy]
- agenda+ Survey on 3.2.3 Consistent Navigation [3]
- 14:08:57 [Judy]
- agenda+ Glossary - Part 4 Survey – “supplemental content” [4]
- 14:08:57 [Judy]
- agenda+ Action Items, beginning with ACTION-44 [5]
- 14:08:58 [Judy]
- agenda+ Confirm next meeting time; action items;
- 14:09:20 [Judy]
- chair: Mike_Pluke
- 14:09:26 [Judy]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 14:09:26 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see [Microsoft], Mary_Jo_Mueller, +1.608.514.aaaa, ??P9, +0162859aabb, [Oracle], Judy, Janina_Sajka
- 14:09:40 [korn]
- Zakim, Oracle has Peter_Korn
- 14:09:40 [Zakim]
- +Peter_Korn; got it
- 14:10:05 [alex_]
- Zakim, Microsoft has alex
- 14:10:05 [Zakim]
- +alex; got it
- 14:10:57 [greggvanderheiden]
- zakim, +1.608 is Gregg
- 14:10:57 [Zakim]
- +Gregg; got it
- 14:11:23 [Mike]
- zakim ??P9 is Mike
- 14:11:42 [Kiran_Kaja]
- Zakim, +01628 is Kiran_Kaja
- 14:11:42 [Zakim]
- +Kiran_Kaja; got it
- 14:12:09 [Mike]
- zakim, ??P9 is Mike
- 14:12:09 [Zakim]
- +Mike; got it
- 14:12:20 [Mike]
- https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20120911/results
- 14:12:38 [Judy]
- zakim, take up next item
- 14:12:38 [Zakim]
- agendum 2. "Proposal from Gregg of how to process comments on July 27, 2012 WCGA2ICT Working Draft" taken up [from 2]
- 14:12:42 [Judy]
- https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/review-process
- 14:14:38 [MaryJo]
- The URL above is the first page, with 2 additional detailed pages that give details of the process.
- 14:15:02 [MaryJo]
- s/additional detailed pages/additional pages/
- 14:15:51 [korn]
- q+
- 14:16:20 [MaryJo]
- This is the process that has worked in the past. Need volunteers for entering comments and for drafting responses. Entering comments is an easier job.
- 14:17:14 [Mike]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag2ict-comments/
- 14:17:38 [Mike]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-comments-wcag20/
- 14:18:37 [Zakim]
- -Kiran_Kaja
- 14:19:41 [greggvanderheiden]
- 11 from olaf
- 14:19:47 [greggvanderheiden]
- 11 from duff
- 14:19:56 [greggvanderheiden]
- plus 9 more from duff
- 14:20:30 [MaryJo]
- In the wcag2ict comments there are 14 messages. Two comments have come in that have background in kiosks.
- 14:20:32 [alex_]
- closed functionality is still in the list of outstanding issues
- 14:20:40 [greggvanderheiden]
- plus 1 from neil
- 14:22:11 [MaryJo]
- There is one from Neil from the other wcag20 comments list.
- 14:23:02 [MaryJo]
- We should not be responding directly to comments on the list because these responses are posted on this public list.
- 14:25:21 [Judy]
- q+
- 14:25:37 [Judy]
- q+ to comment on when groups take comments
- 14:25:48 [korn]
- q-
- 14:26:20 [MaryJo]
- Deadline for comments was Friday 7 Sept. We answer the comments that were on time first.
- 14:27:08 [MaryJo]
- We'll try to close them out. If comments come a day or so late, they will be entered in with the on-time comments.
- 14:29:13 [MaryJo]
- Anything that is much later will have to be handled on a case-by-case basis, as we might have a newer public draft already.
- 14:29:29 [Kiran]
- Kiran has joined #wcag2ict
- 14:30:15 [Zakim]
- +Kiran_Kaja
- 14:30:21 [MaryJo]
- zakim, next item
- 14:30:21 [Zakim]
- I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, MaryJo
- 14:30:50 [greggvanderheiden]
- q?
- 14:30:53 [greggvanderheiden]
- ack j
- 14:30:53 [Zakim]
- Judy, you wanted to comment on when groups take comments
- 14:31:01 [MaryJo]
- zakim, next item
- 14:31:01 [Zakim]
- agendum 3. "Assigning people to process comments – Volunteers extremely welcome!" taken up [from Judy]
- 14:31:32 [Mike]
- https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20120911/results
- 14:31:33 [greggvanderheiden]
- zakim, previous item
- 14:31:33 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'previous item', greggvanderheiden
- 14:40:17 [MaryJo]
- There is a first pass review of draft answers by the editors to check if the response is ready for survey or not.
- 14:41:33 [MaryJo]
- This is to prevent a lot of negative feedback which might be daunting to volunteers who draft the response.
- 14:44:53 [MaryJo]
- For the instructions for proposing an answer, Andi and Mike will have to work out who the answers should be assigned to.
- 14:46:27 [MaryJo]
- The deadline for the survey on these instructions will be extended so we can add comments as we start to work this process.
- 14:47:24 [MaryJo]
- Deadline will be extended to Friday 14 Sept.
- 14:49:31 [Judy]
- q+
- 14:50:41 [MaryJo]
- Volunteers to create issues from the comments: Mary Jo Mueller, Mike Pluke, Peter Korn (after a week or two)
- 14:51:02 [korn]
- Zakim, who is talking?
- 14:51:02 [Judy]
- zakim, mute me
- 14:51:02 [Zakim]
- Judy should now be muted
- 14:51:12 [Zakim]
- korn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Mike (55%), Gregg (5%)
- 14:54:48 [MaryJo]
- zakim, next item
- 14:54:48 [Zakim]
- I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, MaryJo
- 14:55:07 [Judy]
- q-
- 14:55:07 [greggvanderheiden]
- q?
- 14:55:10 [MaryJo]
- zakim, next item
- 14:55:10 [Zakim]
- agendum 4. "Survey on 3.2.3 Consistent Navigation" taken up [from 3]
- 14:55:28 [Mike]
- https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/20120910/results
- 14:56:52 [korn]
- q+
- 14:58:44 [greggvanderheiden]
- q+
- 14:58:50 [greggvanderheiden]
- ack k
- 14:58:52 [Mike]
- q+
- 15:00:05 [MaryJo]
- The term 'navigational mechanisms' needs to be defined.
- 15:00:52 [korn]
- q+
- 15:02:16 [MaryJo]
- We should ask WCAG to create the definition.
- 15:03:27 [MaryJo]
- For application UI's, it is ok to add/remove items from toolbars, etc. The meaning of the SC is to keep the same relative order of the items in the toolbar.
- 15:06:58 [Mike]
- q+
- 15:07:19 [greggvanderheiden]
- nav mech : mechanisms that a person uses to move about in the entity (e.g. content, document, software)
- 15:07:26 [greggvanderheiden]
- q-
- 15:07:29 [greggvanderheiden]
- q+
- 15:07:40 [greggvanderheiden]
- ack k
- 15:07:54 [greggvanderheiden]
- ack m
- 15:08:16 [MaryJo]
- We need to fully understand what this SC means in the software world and should have examples to demonstrate the meaning.
- 15:08:52 [korn]
- q+
- 15:08:59 [Kiran]
- q+
- 15:09:12 [Mike]
- q+
- 15:10:24 [Kiran]
- I was looking at Flash techniques and there is no technique for SC 3.2.3 http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG20-TECHS/flash.html
- 15:10:57 [Kiran]
- And I think Flash is the thing that comes close to being software/web software.
- 15:11:12 [MaryJo]
- The next step is to define what does and does not constitute a navigational mechanism.
- 15:11:54 [MaryJo]
- We also need to agree upon some examples to get a group consensus on which are/are not navigational mechanism.
- 15:12:54 [Kiran]
- q-
- 15:13:04 [greggvanderheiden]
- q_
- 15:13:06 [korn]
- q-
- 15:13:07 [greggvanderheiden]
- q-
- 15:15:18 [greggvanderheiden]
- q+
- 15:15:22 [greggvanderheiden]
- ack m
- 15:15:54 [greggvanderheiden]
- nav mech : mechanisms that a person uses to move about in the entity (e.g. content, document, software)
- 15:16:04 [korn]
- q+
- 15:18:55 [Mike]
- Navigating mechanism - something that helps you move from one "place" to another.
- 15:19:12 [MaryJo]
- Navigation within a UI control shouldn't be considered a 'navigational mechanism'. However if the control is used to navigate to other spots in the application, the control is used as a navigational mechanism and it might be repeated in various places.
- 15:19:26 [Mike]
- In the Web - from section to section - from page to page
- 15:20:34 [Judy]
- zakim, unmute me
- 15:20:34 [Zakim]
- Judy should no longer be muted
- 15:21:05 [greggvanderheiden]
- q+
- 15:21:20 [korn]
- q-
- 15:21:37 [MaryJo]
- Perhaps we should have some examples that describe both what is or is not a navigational mechanism. What about a dialog box would be a navigational mechanism: OK, close buttons vs Escape key, etc.
- 15:21:43 [Mike]
- q+
- 15:22:47 [korn]
- q+
- 15:24:20 [janina]
- +1 to gv
- 15:24:40 [MaryJo]
- As an example, this SC was meant to cover placement of the navigation menus (top or side or bottom - keeping placement consistent), and relative order of items in the menus being consistent.
- 15:25:09 [MaryJo]
- We will have to continue this discussion via email.
- 15:26:45 [MaryJo]
- Gregg will capture Mike's suggestion for an update into a proposal in the wiki.
- 15:27:57 [MaryJo]
- Peter and Kiran will help come up with some examples for us to survey, as well as some notes.
- 15:29:50 [MaryJo]
- zakim, next item
- 15:29:50 [Zakim]
- I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, MaryJo
- 15:30:02 [korn]
- q-
- 15:30:13 [korn]
- ack Mike
- 15:30:28 [MaryJo]
- ack g
- 15:30:33 [MaryJo]
- zakim, next item
- 15:30:33 [Zakim]
- agendum 5. "Glossary - Part 4 Survey – “supplemental content”" taken up [from 4]
- 15:30:58 [Zakim]
- -Gregg
- 15:31:25 [greggvanderheiden]
- kicked off and can't log back in
- 15:31:27 [Mike]
- https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/GLOSSARY4/results#xq10
- 15:31:38 [greggvanderheiden]
- zakim says closed
- 15:32:01 [MaryJo]
- This definition will be left on hold.
- 15:32:38 [MaryJo]
- zakim, next item
- 15:32:38 [Zakim]
- agendum 6. "Action Items, beginning with ACTION-44" taken up [from 5]
- 15:32:48 [MaryJo]
- Not discussed.
- 15:32:53 [Zakim]
- -Janina_Sajka
- 15:32:54 [korn]
- korn has left #wcag2ict
- 15:32:56 [Zakim]
- -[Microsoft]
- 15:32:57 [Zakim]
- -Judy
- 15:32:58 [Zakim]
- -Mary_Jo_Mueller
- 15:32:59 [Zakim]
- -Kiran_Kaja
- 15:33:04 [janina]
- janina has left #wcag2ict
- 15:33:09 [Zakim]
- -Mike
- 15:33:45 [MaryJo]
- zakim, next item
- 15:33:45 [Zakim]
- agendum 7. "Confirm next meeting time; action items;" taken up [from Judy]
- 15:35:50 [Zakim]
- -[Oracle]
- 15:35:52 [Zakim]
- WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has ended
- 15:35:52 [Zakim]
- Attendees were Mary_Jo_Mueller, +1.608.514.aaaa, +0162859aabb, Judy, Janina_Sajka, Peter_Korn, alex, Gregg, Kiran_Kaja, Mike
- 16:02:20 [MaryJo]
- zakim, make minutes
- 16:02:20 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'make minutes', MaryJo
- 16:02:40 [MaryJo]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:02:40 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/11-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
- 16:03:31 [MaryJo]
- zakim, bye
- 16:03:31 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #wcag2ict
- 17:03:59 [Judy]
- Judy has joined #wcag2ict
- 18:17:01 [MaryJo]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 18:17:01 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/11-wcag2ict-minutes.html MaryJo
- 18:46:29 [MichaelC]
- rrsagent, make log world
- 18:46:33 [MichaelC]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 18:46:33 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/11-wcag2ict-minutes.html MichaelC
- 19:08:31 [Judy]
- Judy has joined #wcag2ict