IRC log of crypto on 2012-09-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

18:45:14 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #crypto
18:45:14 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/04-crypto-irc
18:45:16 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs webcrypto
18:45:16 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #crypto
18:45:18 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be SEC_WebCryp
18:45:18 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
18:45:19 [trackbot]
Meeting: Web Cryptography Working Group Teleconference
18:45:19 [trackbot]
Date: 04 September 2012
18:51:00 [wseltzer]
zakim, this is #83263
18:51:00 [Zakim]
sorry, wseltzer, I do not see a conference named '#83263' in progress or scheduled at this time
18:51:14 [wseltzer]
zakim, this is #TEAM3
18:51:14 [Zakim]
sorry, wseltzer, I do not see a conference named '#TEAM3' in progress or scheduled at this time
18:51:27 [wseltzer]
zakim, this is 83263
18:51:27 [Zakim]
wseltzer, I see Team_(crypt)18:48Z in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be 83263".
18:51:31 [JimD]
JimD has joined #crypto
18:51:33 [wseltzer]
zakim, this will be 83263
18:51:33 [Zakim]
ok, wseltzer; I see Team_(crypt)18:48Z scheduled to start 3 minutes ago
18:51:40 [wseltzer]
zakim, code?
18:51:40 [Zakim]
the conference code is 83263 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), wseltzer
18:52:20 [wseltzer]
wseltzer has changed the topic to: Today's WG call: Code 83263. Tuesday, Sept 4, 1900 UTC
18:53:33 [asad]
asad has joined #crypto
18:56:26 [Zakim]
Team_(crypt)18:48Z has now started
18:56:30 [virginie]
chair: virginie
18:56:33 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
18:56:36 [AnthonyNadalin]
AnthonyNadalin has joined #crypto
18:58:05 [Zakim]
+ +33.6.13.23.aaaa
18:58:32 [Zakim]
+ +1.650.214.aabb
18:59:00 [virginie]
aaaa is virginie
18:59:21 [wseltzer]
zakim, aaaa is virginie
18:59:21 [Zakim]
+virginie; got it
18:59:25 [markw]
markw has joined #crypto
18:59:37 [Zakim]
+ +1.773.939.aacc
18:59:38 [wtc]
wtc has joined #crypto
18:59:50 [Zakim]
+WSeltzer
19:00:05 [ddahl]
zakim, aacc is ddahl
19:00:05 [Zakim]
+ddahl; got it
19:00:11 [rsleevi]
rsleevi has joined #crypto
19:00:13 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.540.aadd
19:00:18 [rsleevi]
Zakim, who is on the phone?
19:00:18 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [Microsoft], virginie, +1.650.214.aabb, ddahl, WSeltzer, +1.408.540.aadd
19:00:26 [rsleevi]
Zakim, aabb is Google
19:00:26 [Zakim]
+Google; got it
19:00:28 [vgb]
vgb has joined #crypto
19:00:29 [markw]
zakim, aadd is me
19:00:29 [Zakim]
+markw; got it
19:00:32 [rsleevi]
Zakim, Google has wtc, rsleevi
19:00:32 [Zakim]
+wtc, rsleevi; got it
19:00:49 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft.a]
19:01:00 [vgb]
Zakim, [Microsoft.a] is me
19:01:00 [Zakim]
+vgb; got it
19:01:01 [Zakim]
+John_Aberdeen
19:01:01 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft.a]
19:01:13 [selfissued]
selfissued has joined #crypto
19:01:20 [wseltzer]
zakim, John_Aberdeen is really JimD
19:01:20 [Zakim]
+JimD; got it
19:01:24 [JimD]
TY
19:01:28 [selfissued]
Mike Jones here
19:01:28 [mitchz]
mitchz has joined #crypto
19:01:50 [Zakim]
+ +1.512.257.aaee
19:02:25 [cjkula]
cjkula has joined #crypto
19:02:38 [virginie]
Zakim, aaee is karen
19:02:38 [Zakim]
+karen; got it
19:02:42 [Zakim]
+ +1.512.257.aaff
19:03:01 [virginie]
zakim, aaff is asad
19:03:01 [Zakim]
+asad; got it
19:03:06 [rsleevi]
Zakim, who is making noise?
19:03:17 [Zakim]
rsleevi, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: [Microsoft] (27%), virginie (59%), [Microsoft.a] (5%), karen (23%)
19:03:40 [Zakim]
-WSeltzer
19:03:48 [virginie]
agenda ?
19:04:04 [mitchz]
anyone having trouble with the conference bridge?
19:04:10 [virginie]
agenda+ Welcome - 5’
19:04:13 [Zakim]
+ +1.510.387.aagg
19:04:15 [Zakim]
+Wendy
19:04:16 [mitchz]
27978 is "not a valid conference code"
19:04:18 [rsleevi]
Zakim, what is the conference number?
19:04:18 [Zakim]
I don't understand your question, rsleevi.
19:04:22 [rsleevi]
Zakim, what is the conference code?
19:04:22 [Zakim]
the conference code is 83263 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), rsleevi
19:04:23 [JimD]
use 83263
19:04:27 [karen_]
karen_ has joined #crypto
19:04:27 [wseltzer]
mitchz and all, we're on 83263
19:04:28 [rsleevi]
mitchz: ^
19:04:33 [Zakim]
-Wendy
19:04:44 [cjkula]
Zakim, aagg is cjkula
19:04:44 [Zakim]
+cjkula; got it
19:04:44 [arunranga]
arunranga has joined #crypto
19:04:47 [Zakim]
+Wendy
19:05:01 [wseltzer]
zakim, I am Wendy
19:05:01 [Zakim]
ok, wseltzer, I now associate you with Wendy
19:05:06 [virginie]
agenda+ 2 - Draft API review – 30’
19:05:08 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.656.aahh
19:05:26 [virginie]
agenda+ 3- Action status – 5’
19:05:31 [mitchz]
Zakim, aahh is mitchz
19:05:31 [Zakim]
+mitchz; got it
19:05:44 [virginie]
agenda+ 4- Group Life – 15’
19:05:52 [Zakim]
+ +1.415.294.aaii
19:06:01 [virginie]
any volunteer for scribing ?
19:06:14 [virginie]
zakim, who is on the phone
19:06:14 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who is on the phone', virginie
19:06:24 [wseltzer]
zakim, who is here?
19:06:24 [Zakim]
On the phone I see [Microsoft], virginie, Google, ddahl, markw, vgb, JimD, [Microsoft.a], karen, asad, cjkula, Wendy (muted), mitchz, +1.415.294.aaii
19:06:26 [Zakim]
Google has wtc, rsleevi
19:06:26 [Zakim]
On IRC I see arunranga, karen_, cjkula, mitchz, selfissued, vgb, rsleevi, wtc, markw, AnthonyNadalin, asad, JimD, Zakim, RRSAgent, virginie, ddahl, tl, trackbot, wseltzer, timeless
19:06:56 [arunranga]
Zakim, aaii is arunranga
19:06:56 [Zakim]
+arunranga; got it
19:07:03 [arunranga]
Zakim, mute me
19:07:03 [Zakim]
arunranga should now be muted
19:07:42 [wseltzer]
zakim, Microsoft has Anthony_Nadalin
19:07:42 [Zakim]
+Anthony_Nadalin; got it
19:07:50 [wseltzer]
zakim, Microsoft.a has Mike_Jones
19:07:50 [Zakim]
+Mike_Jones; got it
19:08:07 [wseltzer]
zakim, pick a scribe
19:08:07 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose karen
19:09:14 [wseltzer]
agenda?
19:09:25 [wseltzer]
Topic: Welcome
19:09:28 [wseltzer]
scribenick: karen
19:09:32 [wseltzer]
scribe: karen
19:09:46 [virginie]
http://www.w3.org/2012/08/27-crypto-minutes.html
19:10:05 [karen_]
Virginie: approve 8/27 minutes
19:10:32 [karen_]
... objective: review draft API
19:10:37 [wseltzer]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webcrypto/2012Sep/0018.html
19:11:37 [karen_]
... review actions, not issues
19:12:25 [karen_]
agenda approved
19:12:35 [wseltzer]
Topic: Draft API review
19:12:52 [virginie]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webcrypto/2012Aug/0420.html
19:13:15 [karen_]
Ryan: responded most of the feedbacks
19:13:43 [virginie]
draft is available http://www.w3.org/2012/webcrypto/WebCryptoAPI/
19:14:18 [wseltzer]
[rsleevi reviews some of the changes listed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webcrypto/2012Aug/0420.html ]
19:16:00 [markw]
+1
19:16:02 [karen_]
Virginie: Thank you Ryan!
19:16:03 [arunranga]
Solid +1
19:16:12 [karen_]
+1
19:16:54 [markw]
q+
19:16:57 [JimD]
+1
19:17:03 [asad]
+1
19:17:09 [wseltzer]
ack markw
19:17:12 [karen_]
Virginie: anyone frustrated?
19:17:24 [vgb]
+1
19:17:46 [rsleevi]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webcrypto/2012Aug/0400.html
19:17:48 [mitchz]
+
19:17:48 [karen_]
Mark: a used case that I provided last week is not included. Hope to be included.
19:17:49 [mitchz]
+1
19:18:04 [karen_]
Ryan: sent feedback in email.
19:18:10 [virginie]
q?
19:19:27 [rsleevi]
Sorry, feedback was http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webcrypto/2012Aug/0399.html
19:19:47 [karen_]
... Didn't have chance to agree on text
19:20:02 [asad]
q+
19:20:19 [vgb]
q+
19:20:21 [wtc]
q+
19:20:56 [wseltzer]
virginie: any objection to including Netflix use case?
19:20:56 [mitchz]
+1
19:21:07 [wseltzer]
(+1 = no objection)
19:21:14 [virginie]
+1
19:21:17 [wseltzer]
(-1 if objection)
19:21:19 [JimD]
+1
19:21:22 [vgb]
+1
19:21:24 [asad]
+1
19:21:45 [vgb]
q-
19:21:51 [markw]
q+
19:21:54 [karen_]
virginie: no objection. can proceed to include netflix use case.
19:22:03 [wtc]
I have a question about the purpose of use cases in the API draft, which is why I couldn't vote,
19:22:37 [karen_]
Mark: can work on it today. can work with Ryan.
19:22:40 [wseltzer]
ack markw
19:22:42 [wseltzer]
ack wtc
19:22:58 [karen_]
wtc: purpose of the use case is not clear to me
19:23:25 [mitchz]
didn't hear the question
19:23:33 [mitchz]
Wan-Teh, your phone is breaking up a bit
19:24:16 [vgb]
W3C text on what FPWD means: http://www.w3.org/2004/02/Process-20040205/tr.html#first-wd
19:25:58 [wseltzer]
wtc: proposes face-to-face discussion among rsleevi, wtc, Netflix
19:26:02 [karen_]
wtc: communications through email are inefficient. Suggest F2F meeting to clearify.
19:26:34 [karen_]
... does not need to wait for the w3c meeting
19:26:53 [wseltzer]
q?
19:26:59 [karen_]
Virginie: we can have conference call dedicated to certain subject
19:27:14 [JimD]
an action committee, of sorts... a conference call perhaps outside normal hours?
19:27:28 [karen_]
... as long as you report to the group, no problem for f2f meeting
19:27:38 [wtc]
q-
19:28:24 [karen_]
Ryan: should we mention names?
19:28:55 [karen_]
Virginie: we should typically not mention company names.
19:29:31 [wseltzer]
q+
19:29:45 [karen_]
Ryan: once in the use cases, the API needs to support it.
19:30:02 [JimD]
initial inclusion of use cases does not mean they'll be in the final version
19:30:11 [karen_]
... we have open issues for API to workout.
19:30:15 [JimD]
likewise, there may be other use cases that may be added later
19:31:02 [markw]
q+
19:31:49 [wseltzer]
ack Wendy
19:32:54 [wseltzer]
ack markw
19:32:55 [karen_]
Wendy: we are guided by the charter. It is good to have use cases even if the current API does not support yet. We are free to make further choices
19:33:10 [karen_]
Mark: agree with Virginie and Wendy.
19:34:01 [karen_]
... use cases intending for API to support. If or not API supporting depends on what we work out.
19:34:10 [wseltzer]
ack asad
19:34:30 [karen_]
asad: thank editors
19:34:48 [karen_]
... comment on 5.4
19:35:27 [JimD]
asad, well said
19:35:35 [karen_]
... even current API does not support discover of keys, hope the API still intend to do
19:35:47 [rsleevi]
q+
19:35:50 [mitchz]
q+
19:35:56 [wseltzer]
ack rsleevi
19:36:31 [karen_]
Ryan: there are a few editorial changes to be made
19:37:27 [karen_]
Wendy: public review process include making sure public url work out
19:37:55 [karen_]
mitch: where we go for example code?
19:38:08 [karen_]
... do we decide spin out another document?
19:38:24 [karen_]
Virginie: that's an action allocate to Asad
19:38:35 [wseltzer]
ack mitchz
19:38:44 [arunranga]
FWIW a FPWD should have some sample code.
19:39:01 [karen_]
asad: for sample code, Ryan has pointed out the sample code should be after api stablized
19:39:27 [karen_]
virginie: can you live with without a sample code?
19:39:32 [karen_]
mitch: may be.
19:39:50 [rsleevi]
q+
19:40:42 [karen_]
Ryan: similar as use cases, we may start wiki for sample code to address use cases
19:41:03 [karen_]
... I don't know we are at the point to put it in the api doc
19:41:07 [ddahl]
rsleevi: we can also write the code in the github and embed it into the wiki so it looks nice
19:41:20 [arunranga]
Zakim, unmute me
19:41:20 [Zakim]
arunranga should no longer be muted
19:41:23 [karen_]
virginie: arun, do you want to comment?
19:41:28 [rsleevi]
Note: I was not advocating for FPWD that we do samples
19:41:50 [karen_]
arun: it is useful to have some illustrative code
19:42:19 [karen_]
... generally it is a good idea to have a sample code in the draft
19:42:52 [karen_]
virginie: if include sample code, we can delay for a week or sample code will come later
19:43:11 [karen_]
... any opinion?
19:43:32 [karen_]
... anyone can write sample code in one week?
19:43:40 [karen_]
David: I can do it.
19:44:04 [karen_]
virginie: it is more reasonable to delay one week to add sample code
19:44:07 [JimD]
+1
19:44:10 [karen_]
+
19:44:11 [mitchz]
+1
19:44:12 [karen_]
+1
19:44:13 [virginie]
+1
19:44:15 [asad]
+1
19:44:15 [selfissued]
+1
19:44:16 [arunranga]
+1
19:44:18 [ddahl]
+1
19:44:20 [wseltzer]
Proposal: FPWD next week, not this
19:44:20 [vgb]
+1
19:44:44 [karen_]
virginie: okay, we postpone one week
19:44:53 [karen_]
action: David writes sample code
19:44:53 [trackbot]
Sorry, ambiguous username (more than one match) - David
19:44:53 [trackbot]
Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ddahl3, dmcgrew, drogers2, dhooley)
19:45:22 [wseltzer]
ACTION: ddahl3 to write some sample code
19:45:22 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-43 - Write some sample code [on David Dahl - due 2012-09-11].
19:45:29 [virginie]
q?
19:45:32 [karen_]
virginie: we are done with the draft api
19:45:37 [rsleevi]
q-
19:45:48 [wseltzer]
zakim, take up agendum 3
19:45:48 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "3- Action status – 5’" taken up [from virginie]
19:46:12 [karen_]
Topic: issue 16 and 20
19:46:15 [virginie]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webcrypto/2012Aug/0402.html
19:46:17 [wseltzer]
ISSUE-16
19:46:20 [wseltzer]
ISSUE-16?
19:46:20 [trackbot]
ISSUE-16 -- Definition for Key Expiration -- raised
19:46:20 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2012/webcrypto/track/issues/16
19:47:22 [karen_]
Ryan: propose to remove it and to have applications to handle it.
19:47:32 [vgb]
+1
19:47:35 [wseltzer]
Proposal: close ISSUE 16
19:47:36 [rsleevi]
+1
19:47:36 [wtc]
+1 on removing startDate/endDate
19:47:37 [karen_]
virginie: objection to close it?
19:47:38 [ddahl]
+1
19:47:43 [JimD]
+1
19:47:44 [asad]
+1
19:47:46 [karen_]
+1
19:47:48 [cjkula]
+1
19:47:50 [virginie]
+1
19:47:51 [mitchz]
+1
19:47:54 [wseltzer]
+1
19:48:06 [wseltzer]
RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-16
19:48:07 [karen_]
resolution: close issue 16
19:48:14 [wseltzer]
ISSUE-20?
19:48:14 [trackbot]
ISSUE-20 -- What are the requirements and the possible technical solution(s) to control the storage of key and associated attributes -- raised
19:48:14 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/2012/webcrypto/track/issues/20
19:48:36 [rsleevi]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webcrypto/2012Aug/0401.html - proposed text
19:48:40 [rsleevi]
(or lack of text)
19:49:13 [wseltzer]
Proposal: Close ISSUE-20
19:49:22 [rsleevi]
+1
19:49:25 [wtc]
+1. The spec shuld not overspecify how implementations store key attributes.
19:49:28 [ddahl]
+1
19:49:31 [vgb]
+1
19:49:33 [JimD]
+1
19:49:33 [cjkula]
+1
19:49:34 [mitchz]
+1
19:49:41 [wseltzer]
+1
19:50:09 [karen_]
resolved: close issue 20
19:50:23 [karen_]
topic: review actions
19:50:32 [virginie]
http://www.w3.org/2012/webcrypto/track/actions/pendingreview
19:51:24 [karen_]
virginie: action 16 - delay after first public working draft
19:51:58 [wseltzer]
trackbot, close ISSUE-20
19:51:58 [trackbot]
ISSUE-20 What are the requirements and the possible technical solution(s) to control the storage of key and associated attributes closed
19:52:11 [wseltzer]
trackbot, close ISSUE-16
19:52:11 [trackbot]
ISSUE-16 Definition for Key Expiration closed
19:52:23 [karen_]
... action 22 - key import/export - need more discussions
19:52:56 [wseltzer]
trackbot, close ACTION-22
19:52:56 [trackbot]
ACTION-22 And cjkula to describe key import/export functionality closed
19:53:27 [karen_]
... action 32 - issue 14 to be discussed
19:53:45 [karen_]
topic: open actions
19:53:47 [virginie]
http://www.w3.org/2012/webcrypto/track/actions/open
19:54:25 [karen_]
... please indicate on the mailing list if you think the action should be closed
19:54:36 [wseltzer]
zakim, take up agendum 4
19:54:36 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "4- Group Life – 15’" taken up [from virginie]
19:54:36 [karen_]
... topic: group life
19:55:00 [virginie]
http://www.w3.org/2012/webcrypto/wiki/Gathering_public_comment_for_FPWD
19:55:40 [karen_]
virginie: wiki - any member can edit
19:56:33 [karen_]
... need to decide where to send the public draft
19:57:02 [karen_]
... change the use of conf call.
19:57:30 [rsleevi]
q+
19:57:37 [wseltzer]
ack rsleevi
19:57:40 [karen_]
... comments from members: too much emails to go through. May have 40 min conf call to discuss specific topics
19:57:49 [karen_]
ryan: support real time communication
19:58:24 [karen_]
... concern is - participant may not fully express their concern due to missing calls or other reasons
19:58:39 [karen_]
... if we do this, we need solid scribers
19:59:16 [karen_]
virginie: we need material to discuss before the conf call
19:59:35 [karen_]
... suggest to try
20:01:02 [wseltzer]
rrsagent, pointer?
20:01:02 [RRSAgent]
See http://www.w3.org/2012/09/04-crypto-irc#T20-01-02
20:01:38 [karen_]
wendy: rrsagent, pointer? gives timestamped minute
20:01:52 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft]
20:01:54 [Zakim]
-cjkula
20:01:55 [Zakim]
-mitchz
20:01:55 [Zakim]
-ddahl
20:01:56 [arunranga]
arunranga has left #crypto
20:01:56 [Zakim]
-Google
20:01:57 [Zakim]
-markw
20:01:57 [cjkula]
cjkula has left #crypto
20:01:58 [karen_]
virginie: next conf call talk about first public draft
20:01:58 [Zakim]
-vgb
20:02:00 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft.a]
20:02:02 [Zakim]
-virginie
20:02:02 [Zakim]
-JimD
20:02:05 [Zakim]
-asad
20:02:05 [JimD]
JimD has left #crypto
20:02:06 [Zakim]
-Wendy
20:02:14 [virginie]
thanks karen for scribing
20:02:26 [Zakim]
-karen
20:02:39 [wseltzer]
trackbot, end teleconf
20:02:39 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
20:02:39 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been +33.6.13.23.aaaa, +1.650.214.aabb, virginie, +1.773.939.aacc, WSeltzer, ddahl, +1.408.540.aadd, markw, wtc, rsleevi, vgb, JimD,
20:02:43 [Zakim]
... +1.512.257.aaee, karen, +1.512.257.aaff, asad, +1.510.387.aagg, Wendy, cjkula, +1.408.656.aahh, mitchz, +1.415.294.aaii, arunranga, Anthony_Nadalin, Mike_Jones
20:02:47 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
20:02:47 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/04-crypto-minutes.html trackbot
20:02:48 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
20:02:48 [RRSAgent]
I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/09/04-crypto-actions.rdf :
20:02:48 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: David writes sample code [1]
20:02:48 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/09/04-crypto-irc#T19-44-53
20:02:48 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: ddahl3 to write some sample code [2]
20:02:48 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/09/04-crypto-irc#T19-45-22
20:02:58 [wseltzer]
RRSAgent, make logs public