18:45:14 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #crypto
18:45:14 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/09/04-crypto-irc
18:45:16 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs webcrypto
18:45:16 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #crypto
18:45:18 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SEC_WebCryp
18:45:18 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
18:45:19 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Cryptography Working Group Teleconference
18:45:19 <trackbot> Date: 04 September 2012
18:51:00 <wseltzer> zakim, this is #83263
18:51:00 <Zakim> sorry, wseltzer, I do not see a conference named '#83263' in progress or scheduled at this time
18:51:14 <wseltzer> zakim, this is #TEAM3
18:51:14 <Zakim> sorry, wseltzer, I do not see a conference named '#TEAM3' in progress or scheduled at this time
18:51:27 <wseltzer> zakim, this is 83263
18:51:27 <Zakim> wseltzer, I see Team_(crypt)18:48Z in the schedule but not yet started.  Perhaps you mean "this will be 83263".
18:51:31 <JimD> JimD has joined #crypto
18:51:33 <wseltzer> zakim, this will be 83263
18:51:33 <Zakim> ok, wseltzer; I see Team_(crypt)18:48Z scheduled to start 3 minutes ago
18:51:40 <wseltzer> zakim, code?
18:51:40 <Zakim> the conference code is 83263 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), wseltzer
18:52:20 <wseltzer> wseltzer has changed the topic to: Today's WG call: Code 83263. Tuesday, Sept 4, 1900 UTC
18:53:33 <asad> asad has joined #crypto
18:56:26 <Zakim> Team_(crypt)18:48Z has now started
18:56:30 <virginie> chair: virginie
18:56:33 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
18:56:36 <AnthonyNadalin> AnthonyNadalin has joined #crypto
18:58:05 <Zakim> + +33.6.13.23.aaaa
18:58:32 <Zakim> + +1.650.214.aabb
18:59:00 <virginie> aaaa is virginie
18:59:21 <wseltzer> zakim, aaaa is virginie
18:59:21 <Zakim> +virginie; got it
18:59:25 <markw> markw has joined #crypto
18:59:37 <Zakim> + +1.773.939.aacc
18:59:38 <wtc> wtc has joined #crypto
18:59:50 <Zakim> +WSeltzer
19:00:05 <ddahl> zakim, aacc is ddahl
19:00:05 <Zakim> +ddahl; got it
19:00:11 <rsleevi> rsleevi has joined #crypto
19:00:13 <Zakim> + +1.408.540.aadd
19:00:18 <rsleevi> Zakim, who is on the phone?
19:00:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see [Microsoft], virginie, +1.650.214.aabb, ddahl, WSeltzer, +1.408.540.aadd
19:00:26 <rsleevi> Zakim, aabb is Google
19:00:26 <Zakim> +Google; got it
19:00:28 <vgb> vgb has joined #crypto
19:00:29 <markw> zakim, aadd is me
19:00:29 <Zakim> +markw; got it
19:00:32 <rsleevi> Zakim, Google has wtc, rsleevi
19:00:32 <Zakim> +wtc, rsleevi; got it
19:00:49 <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
19:01:00 <vgb> Zakim, [Microsoft.a] is me
19:01:00 <Zakim> +vgb; got it
19:01:01 <Zakim> +John_Aberdeen
19:01:01 <Zakim> +[Microsoft.a]
19:01:13 <selfissued> selfissued has joined #crypto
19:01:20 <wseltzer> zakim, John_Aberdeen is really JimD
19:01:20 <Zakim> +JimD; got it
19:01:24 <JimD> TY
19:01:28 <selfissued> Mike Jones here
19:01:28 <mitchz> mitchz has joined #crypto
19:01:50 <Zakim> + +1.512.257.aaee
19:02:25 <cjkula> cjkula has joined #crypto
19:02:38 <virginie> Zakim, aaee is karen
19:02:38 <Zakim> +karen; got it
19:02:42 <Zakim> + +1.512.257.aaff
19:03:01 <virginie> zakim, aaff is asad
19:03:01 <Zakim> +asad; got it
19:03:06 <rsleevi> Zakim, who is making noise?
19:03:17 <Zakim> rsleevi, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: [Microsoft] (27%), virginie (59%), [Microsoft.a] (5%), karen (23%)
19:03:40 <Zakim> -WSeltzer
19:03:48 <virginie> agenda ?
19:04:04 <mitchz> anyone having trouble with the conference bridge?
19:04:10 <virginie> agenda+ Welcome - 5’
19:04:13 <Zakim> + +1.510.387.aagg
19:04:15 <Zakim> +Wendy
19:04:16 <mitchz> 27978 is "not a valid conference code"
19:04:18 <rsleevi> Zakim, what is the conference number?
19:04:18 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, rsleevi.
19:04:22 <rsleevi> Zakim, what is the conference code?
19:04:22 <Zakim> the conference code is 83263 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), rsleevi
19:04:23 <JimD> use 83263 
19:04:27 <karen_> karen_ has joined #crypto
19:04:27 <wseltzer> mitchz and all, we're on 83263
19:04:28 <rsleevi> mitchz: ^
19:04:33 <Zakim> -Wendy
19:04:44 <cjkula> Zakim, aagg is cjkula
19:04:44 <Zakim> +cjkula; got it
19:04:44 <arunranga> arunranga has joined #crypto
19:04:47 <Zakim> +Wendy
19:05:01 <wseltzer> zakim, I am Wendy
19:05:01 <Zakim> ok, wseltzer, I now associate you with Wendy
19:05:06 <virginie> agenda+ 2 - Draft API review – 30’
19:05:08 <Zakim> + +1.408.656.aahh
19:05:26 <virginie> agenda+ 3- Action status – 5’
19:05:31 <mitchz> Zakim, aahh is mitchz
19:05:31 <Zakim> +mitchz; got it
19:05:44 <virginie> agenda+ 4- Group Life – 15’
19:05:52 <Zakim> + +1.415.294.aaii
19:06:01 <virginie> any volunteer for scribing ?
19:06:14 <virginie> zakim, who is on the phone
19:06:14 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', virginie
19:06:24 <wseltzer> zakim, who is here?
19:06:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see [Microsoft], virginie, Google, ddahl, markw, vgb, JimD, [Microsoft.a], karen, asad, cjkula, Wendy (muted), mitchz, +1.415.294.aaii
19:06:26 <Zakim> Google has wtc, rsleevi
19:06:26 <Zakim> On IRC I see arunranga, karen_, cjkula, mitchz, selfissued, vgb, rsleevi, wtc, markw, AnthonyNadalin, asad, JimD, Zakim, RRSAgent, virginie, ddahl, tl, trackbot, wseltzer, timeless
19:06:56 <arunranga> Zakim, aaii is arunranga
19:06:56 <Zakim> +arunranga; got it
19:07:03 <arunranga> Zakim, mute me
19:07:03 <Zakim> arunranga should now be muted
19:07:42 <wseltzer> zakim, Microsoft has Anthony_Nadalin
19:07:42 <Zakim> +Anthony_Nadalin; got it
19:07:50 <wseltzer> zakim, Microsoft.a has Mike_Jones
19:07:50 <Zakim> +Mike_Jones; got it
19:08:07 <wseltzer> zakim, pick a scribe
19:08:07 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose karen
19:09:14 <wseltzer> agenda?
19:09:25 <wseltzer> Topic: Welcome
19:09:28 <wseltzer> scribenick: karen
19:09:32 <wseltzer> scribe: karen
19:09:46 <virginie> http://www.w3.org/2012/08/27-crypto-minutes.html
19:10:05 <karen_> Virginie: approve 8/27 minutes
19:10:32 <karen_> ... objective: review draft API
19:10:37 <wseltzer> Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webcrypto/2012Sep/0018.html
19:11:37 <karen_> ... review actions, not issues
19:12:25 <karen_> agenda approved
19:12:35 <wseltzer> Topic: Draft API review
19:12:52 <virginie> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webcrypto/2012Aug/0420.html
19:13:15 <karen_> Ryan: responded most of the feedbacks
19:13:43 <virginie> draft is available http://www.w3.org/2012/webcrypto/WebCryptoAPI/
19:14:18 <wseltzer> [rsleevi reviews some of the changes listed in http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webcrypto/2012Aug/0420.html ]
19:16:00 <markw> +1
19:16:02 <karen_> Virginie: Thank you Ryan!
19:16:03 <arunranga> Solid +1
19:16:12 <karen_> +1
19:16:54 <markw> q+
19:16:57 <JimD> +1
19:17:03 <asad> +1
19:17:09 <wseltzer> ack markw 
19:17:12 <karen_> Virginie: anyone frustrated?
19:17:24 <vgb> +1
19:17:46 <rsleevi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webcrypto/2012Aug/0400.html
19:17:48 <mitchz> +
19:17:48 <karen_> Mark: a used case that I provided last week is not included. Hope to be included.
19:17:49 <mitchz> +1
19:18:04 <karen_> Ryan: sent feedback in email. 
19:18:10 <virginie> q?
19:19:27 <rsleevi> Sorry, feedback was http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webcrypto/2012Aug/0399.html
19:19:47 <karen_> ... Didn't have chance to agree on text
19:20:02 <asad> q+
19:20:19 <vgb> q+
19:20:21 <wtc> q+
19:20:56 <wseltzer> virginie: any objection to including Netflix use case?
19:20:56 <mitchz> +1
19:21:07 <wseltzer> (+1 = no objection)
19:21:14 <virginie> +1
19:21:17 <wseltzer> (-1 if objection)
19:21:19 <JimD> +1 
19:21:22 <vgb> +1
19:21:24 <asad> +1
19:21:45 <vgb> q-
19:21:51 <markw> q+
19:21:54 <karen_> virginie: no objection. can proceed to include netflix use case.
19:22:03 <wtc> I have a question about the purpose of use cases in the API draft, which is why I couldn't vote,
19:22:37 <karen_> Mark: can work on it today. can work with Ryan.
19:22:40 <wseltzer> ack markw 
19:22:42 <wseltzer> ack wtc
19:22:58 <karen_> wtc: purpose of the use case is not clear to me
19:23:25 <mitchz> didn't hear the question
19:23:33 <mitchz> Wan-Teh, your phone is breaking up a bit
19:24:16 <vgb> W3C text on what FPWD means: http://www.w3.org/2004/02/Process-20040205/tr.html#first-wd
19:25:58 <wseltzer> wtc: proposes face-to-face discussion among rsleevi, wtc, Netflix
19:26:02 <karen_> wtc: communications through email are inefficient. Suggest F2F meeting to clearify.
19:26:34 <karen_> ... does not need to wait for the w3c meeting
19:26:53 <wseltzer> q?
19:26:59 <karen_> Virginie: we can have conference call dedicated to certain subject
19:27:14 <JimD> an action committee, of sorts... a conference call perhaps outside normal hours?
19:27:28 <karen_> ... as long as you report to the group, no problem for f2f meeting
19:27:38 <wtc> q-
19:28:24 <karen_> Ryan: should we mention names?
19:28:55 <karen_> Virginie: we should typically not mention company names. 
19:29:31 <wseltzer> q+
19:29:45 <karen_> Ryan: once in the use cases, the API needs to support it.
19:30:02 <JimD> initial inclusion of use cases does not mean they'll be in the final version
19:30:11 <karen_> ... we have open issues for API to workout.
19:30:15 <JimD> likewise, there may be other use cases that may be added later
19:31:02 <markw> q+
19:31:49 <wseltzer> ack Wendy
19:32:54 <wseltzer> ack markw 
19:32:55 <karen_> Wendy: we are guided by the charter. It is good to have use cases even if the current API does not support yet. We are free to make further choices
19:33:10 <karen_> Mark: agree with Virginie and Wendy.
19:34:01 <karen_> ... use cases intending for API to support. If or not API supporting depends on what we work out.
19:34:10 <wseltzer> ack asad
19:34:30 <karen_> asad: thank editors
19:34:48 <karen_> ... comment on 5.4
19:35:27 <JimD> asad, well said
19:35:35 <karen_> ... even current API does not support discover of keys, hope the API still intend to do
19:35:47 <rsleevi> q+
19:35:50 <mitchz> q+
19:35:56 <wseltzer> ack rsleevi 
19:36:31 <karen_> Ryan: there are a few editorial changes to be made
19:37:27 <karen_> Wendy: public review process include making sure public url work out
19:37:55 <karen_> mitch: where we go for example code?
19:38:08 <karen_> ... do we decide spin out another document?
19:38:24 <karen_> Virginie: that's an action allocate to Asad
19:38:35 <wseltzer> ack mitchz 
19:38:44 <arunranga> FWIW a FPWD should have some sample code.
19:39:01 <karen_> asad: for sample code, Ryan has pointed out the sample code should be after api stablized
19:39:27 <karen_> virginie: can you live with without a sample code?
19:39:32 <karen_> mitch: may be.
19:39:50 <rsleevi> q+
19:40:42 <karen_> Ryan: similar as use cases, we may start wiki for sample code to address use cases
19:41:03 <karen_> ... I don't know we are at the point to put it in the api doc
19:41:07 <ddahl> rsleevi: we can also write the code in the github and embed it into the wiki so it looks nice
19:41:20 <arunranga> Zakim, unmute me
19:41:20 <Zakim> arunranga should no longer be muted
19:41:23 <karen_> virginie: arun, do you want to comment?
19:41:28 <rsleevi> Note: I was not advocating for FPWD that we do samples
19:41:50 <karen_> arun: it is useful to have some illustrative code
19:42:19 <karen_> ... generally it is a good idea to have a sample code in the draft
19:42:52 <karen_> virginie: if include sample code, we can delay for a week or sample code will come later
19:43:11 <karen_> ... any opinion?
19:43:32 <karen_> ... anyone can write sample code in one week?
19:43:40 <karen_> David: I can do it.
19:44:04 <karen_> virginie: it is more reasonable to delay one week to add sample code
19:44:07 <JimD> +1
19:44:10 <karen_> +
19:44:11 <mitchz> +1
19:44:12 <karen_> +1
19:44:13 <virginie> +1
19:44:15 <asad> +1
19:44:15 <selfissued> +1
19:44:16 <arunranga> +1
19:44:18 <ddahl> +1
19:44:20 <wseltzer> Proposal: FPWD next week, not this
19:44:20 <vgb> +1
19:44:44 <karen_> virginie: okay, we postpone one week
19:44:53 <karen_> action: David writes sample code
19:44:53 <trackbot> Sorry, ambiguous username (more than one match) - David
19:44:53 <trackbot> Try using a different identifier, such as family name or username (eg. ddahl3, dmcgrew, drogers2, dhooley)
19:45:22 <wseltzer> ACTION: ddahl3 to write some sample code
19:45:22 <trackbot> Created ACTION-43 - Write some sample code [on David Dahl - due 2012-09-11].
19:45:29 <virginie> q?
19:45:32 <karen_> virginie: we are done with the draft api
19:45:37 <rsleevi> q-
19:45:48 <wseltzer> zakim, take up agendum 3
19:45:48 <Zakim> agendum 3. "3- Action status – 5’" taken up [from virginie]
19:46:12 <karen_> Topic: issue 16 and 20
19:46:15 <virginie> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webcrypto/2012Aug/0402.html
19:46:17 <wseltzer> ISSUE-16
19:46:20 <wseltzer> ISSUE-16?
19:46:20 <trackbot> ISSUE-16 -- Definition for Key Expiration -- raised
19:46:20 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/webcrypto/track/issues/16
19:47:22 <karen_> Ryan: propose to remove it and to have applications to handle it.
19:47:32 <vgb> +1
19:47:35 <wseltzer> Proposal: close ISSUE 16
19:47:36 <rsleevi> +1
19:47:36 <wtc> +1 on removing startDate/endDate
19:47:37 <karen_> virginie: objection to close it?
19:47:38 <ddahl> +1
19:47:43 <JimD> +1
19:47:44 <asad> +1
19:47:46 <karen_> +1
19:47:48 <cjkula> +1
19:47:50 <virginie> +1
19:47:51 <mitchz> +1
19:47:54 <wseltzer> +1
19:48:06 <wseltzer> RESOLVED: Close ISSUE-16
19:48:07 <karen_> resolution: close issue 16
19:48:14 <wseltzer> ISSUE-20?
19:48:14 <trackbot> ISSUE-20 -- What are the requirements and the possible technical solution(s) to control the storage of key and associated attributes -- raised
19:48:14 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2012/webcrypto/track/issues/20
19:48:36 <rsleevi> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webcrypto/2012Aug/0401.html - proposed text
19:48:40 <rsleevi> (or lack of text)
19:49:13 <wseltzer> Proposal: Close ISSUE-20
19:49:22 <rsleevi> +1
19:49:25 <wtc> +1. The spec shuld not overspecify how implementations store key attributes.
19:49:28 <ddahl> +1
19:49:31 <vgb> +1
19:49:33 <JimD> +1
19:49:33 <cjkula> +1
19:49:34 <mitchz> +1
19:49:41 <wseltzer> +1
19:50:09 <karen_> resolved: close issue 20
19:50:23 <karen_> topic: review actions
19:50:32 <virginie> http://www.w3.org/2012/webcrypto/track/actions/pendingreview 
19:51:24 <karen_> virginie: action 16 - delay after first public working draft
19:51:58 <wseltzer> trackbot, close ISSUE-20
19:51:58 <trackbot> ISSUE-20 What are the requirements and the possible technical solution(s) to control the storage of key and associated attributes closed
19:52:11 <wseltzer> trackbot, close ISSUE-16
19:52:11 <trackbot> ISSUE-16 Definition for Key Expiration closed
19:52:23 <karen_> ... action 22 - key import/export - need more discussions
19:52:56 <wseltzer> trackbot, close ACTION-22
19:52:56 <trackbot> ACTION-22 And cjkula to describe key import/export functionality closed
19:53:27 <karen_> ... action 32 - issue 14 to be discussed
19:53:45 <karen_> topic: open actions
19:53:47 <virginie> http://www.w3.org/2012/webcrypto/track/actions/open
19:54:25 <karen_> ... please indicate on the mailing list if you think the action should be closed
19:54:36 <wseltzer> zakim, take up agendum 4
19:54:36 <Zakim> agendum 4. "4- Group Life – 15’" taken up [from virginie]
19:54:36 <karen_> ... topic: group life
19:55:00 <virginie> http://www.w3.org/2012/webcrypto/wiki/Gathering_public_comment_for_FPWD 
19:55:40 <karen_> virginie: wiki - any member can edit
19:56:33 <karen_> ... need to decide where to send the public draft
19:57:02 <karen_> ... change the use of conf call.
19:57:30 <rsleevi> q+
19:57:37 <wseltzer> ack rsleevi 
19:57:40 <karen_> ... comments from members: too much emails to go through. May have 40 min conf call to discuss specific topics
19:57:49 <karen_> ryan: support real time communication
19:58:24 <karen_> ... concern is - participant may not fully express their concern due to missing calls or other reasons
19:58:39 <karen_> ... if we do this, we need solid scribers
19:59:16 <karen_> virginie: we need material to discuss before the conf call
19:59:35 <karen_> ... suggest to try
20:01:02 <wseltzer> rrsagent, pointer?
20:01:02 <RRSAgent> See http://www.w3.org/2012/09/04-crypto-irc#T20-01-02
20:01:38 <karen_> wendy: rrsagent, pointer? gives timestamped minute
20:01:52 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
20:01:54 <Zakim> -cjkula
20:01:55 <Zakim> -mitchz
20:01:55 <Zakim> -ddahl
20:01:56 <arunranga> arunranga has left #crypto
20:01:56 <Zakim> -Google
20:01:57 <Zakim> -markw
20:01:57 <cjkula> cjkula has left #crypto
20:01:58 <karen_> virginie: next conf call talk about first public draft
20:01:58 <Zakim> -vgb
20:02:00 <Zakim> -[Microsoft.a]
20:02:02 <Zakim> -virginie
20:02:02 <Zakim> -JimD
20:02:05 <Zakim> -asad
20:02:05 <JimD> JimD has left #crypto
20:02:06 <Zakim> -Wendy
20:02:14 <virginie> thanks karen for scribing
20:02:26 <Zakim> -karen
20:02:39 <wseltzer> trackbot, end teleconf
20:02:39 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
20:02:39 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +33.6.13.23.aaaa, +1.650.214.aabb, virginie, +1.773.939.aacc, WSeltzer, ddahl, +1.408.540.aadd, markw, wtc, rsleevi, vgb, JimD,
20:02:43 <Zakim> ... +1.512.257.aaee, karen, +1.512.257.aaff, asad, +1.510.387.aagg, Wendy, cjkula, +1.408.656.aahh, mitchz, +1.415.294.aaii, arunranga, Anthony_Nadalin, Mike_Jones
20:02:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
20:02:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/09/04-crypto-minutes.html trackbot
20:02:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
20:02:48 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/09/04-crypto-actions.rdf :
20:02:48 <RRSAgent> ACTION: David writes sample code [1]
20:02:48 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/09/04-crypto-irc#T19-44-53
20:02:48 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ddahl3 to write some sample code [2]
20:02:48 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/09/04-crypto-irc#T19-45-22
20:02:58 <wseltzer> RRSAgent, make logs public