IRC log of wai-wcag on 2012-08-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

19:45:59 [RRSAgent]
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19:45:59 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-wai-wcag-irc
19:46:01 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
19:46:01 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #wai-wcag
19:46:03 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
19:46:03 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see WAI_WCAG()4:00PM scheduled to start in 14 minutes
19:46:04 [trackbot]
Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
19:46:04 [trackbot]
Date: 30 August 2012
19:46:10 [MichaelC]
agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2012JulSep/0061.html
19:46:19 [MichaelC]
chair: Loretta_Guarino_Reid
19:46:45 [MichaelC]
regrets: Moe_Kraft
19:51:38 [shadi]
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19:59:29 [shadi]
zakim, who is on the phone?
19:59:29 [Zakim]
WAI_WCAG()4:00PM has not yet started, shadi
19:59:30 [Zakim]
On IRC I see shadi, Zakim, RRSAgent, MichaelC, trackbot
19:59:45 [robin]
robin has joined #wai-wcag
20:00:35 [Zakim]
WAI_WCAG()4:00PM has now started
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+Robin_Tuttle
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20:01:05 [Zakim]
+Bruce_Bailey
20:01:22 [Zakim]
+Loretta_Guarino_Reid
20:01:31 [shadi]
zakim, code?
20:01:31 [Zakim]
the conference code is 9224 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), shadi
20:01:37 [ericvelleman]
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+Shadi
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+andrew
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+Kathy_Wahlbin
20:02:47 [adam]
adam has joined #wai-wcag
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+??P16
20:03:25 [adam]
zakim, ??P16 is adam_solomon
20:03:25 [Zakim]
+adam_solomon; got it
20:03:39 [Zakim]
+Eric_Velleman
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+Cooper
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+Andi_Snow_Weaver
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+Gregg_Vanderheiden
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20:07:11 [shadi]
scribe: shadi
20:07:27 [shadi]
updated draft: http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/ED-methodology-20120827
20:07:42 [shadi]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20120830evaltf/results
20:09:09 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730-WCAG#c7
20:09:12 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730-WCAG#c12
20:09:45 [marcjohlic]
marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
20:10:04 [Zakim]
+Marc_Johlic
20:11:09 [greggvanderheiden]
q+
20:12:35 [shadi]
q+
20:13:15 [shadi]
q- gregg
20:13:30 [shadi]
ack me
20:16:19 [Loretta]
q+
20:18:08 [ericvelleman]
q+
20:18:13 [shadi]
q+
20:19:09 [Loretta]
ack me
20:19:42 [Loretta]
ack e
20:20:11 [Loretta]
ack s
20:20:11 [shadi]
ack me
20:23:22 [greggvanderheiden]
q+
20:23:32 [Loretta]
ack g
20:24:22 [shadi]
q+
20:25:17 [shadi]
ack me
20:25:26 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
20:26:37 [shadi]
[[This document specifies an internationally harmonized methodology for evaluating the accessibility conformance of existing websites to the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) 2.0. It defines an approach for conformance evaluation of entire websites as opposed to page-by-page evaluation that is already defined by WCAG 2.0]] ... [[Website owners, procurers, suppliers, developers, and others are frequently tasked with assessing the conformance of exi
20:26:37 [shadi]
sting websites to the Web Content Accessibility Guidelines (WCAG) 2.0]]
20:28:58 [ericvelleman]
q+
20:30:42 [shadi]
GV: "an internationally harmonized" -> "a methodology"
20:31:02 [shadi]
GV: remove "to WCAG 2.0"
20:31:07 [Loretta]
q+
20:31:29 [shadi]
q+
20:32:39 [Loretta]
ack e
20:35:14 [shadi]
GV: need random sample to ensure confidence
20:36:13 [ericvelleman]
q+
20:37:58 [shadi]
EV: want public input to further improve the sampling procedure
20:37:59 [greggvanderheiden]
q+
20:38:39 [Loretta]
ack l
20:38:42 [shadi]
ack me
20:38:44 [shadi]
TF Work Statment [[The objective of Eval TF is to develop an internationally harmonized methodology for evaluating the conformance of websites to WCAG 2.0]] http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/2011/eval/eval-ws
20:38:55 [ericvelleman]
ack me
20:40:14 [MichaelC]
q+ to say the methodology could set a level of confidence considered reasonable, describe ways to achieve it, and include the confidence level in the conformance claim
20:40:25 [Loretta]
q+
20:41:03 [shadi]
GV: not suggesting change of scope but rather wording
20:41:32 [shadi]
GV: "reasonable confidence" is a good phrase to consider
20:42:47 [shadi]
q+
20:43:20 [Loretta]
ack g
20:43:26 [shadi]
GV: remove "*entire* website" ... not asserting that entire site is conformant
20:43:52 [shadi]
agenda+ random sampling
20:44:30 [shadi]
...mix sampling between most used, critical, and random
20:45:10 [MichaelC]
q-
20:45:18 [shadi]
agenda 1 = sampling procedure
20:45:23 [Loretta]
ack me
20:45:23 [ericvelleman]
Great input from Gregg
20:45:30 [shadi]
ack me
20:47:01 [ericvelleman]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730-WCAG#c7
20:49:09 [shadi]
q+
20:49:30 [shadi]
ack me
20:51:26 [Loretta]
q+
20:51:53 [shadi]
GV: using normative language
20:52:20 [shadi]
LGR: less than a quarter directly WCAG
20:52:30 [Loretta]
ack me
20:52:35 [shadi]
...need more review before publishing
20:53:16 [shadi]
MC: don't want to publish with confusing language between normative and informative
20:55:18 [shadi]
SAZ: wonder if the public provides the right answer for this type of questions?
20:55:29 [shadi]
EV: would like to get input from the public
20:55:59 [shadi]
...still does not resolve the issue of confusion, regardless if NOTE or REC
20:56:05 [Loretta]
q+
20:56:20 [shadi]
...may reinforce that this is THE rather than A methodology
20:57:28 [shadi]
EV: "Methodology Requirement" rather than "Requirement" in addition to the changes in the Abstract and Introduction sections
20:57:48 [Loretta]
ack me
20:57:49 [shadi]
LGR: like the idea of using "Methodology Requirement"
21:00:55 [shadi]
MC: add note that the term "Methodology Requirement" is temporary and as for public input
21:01:24 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/conformance/comments-20120730-WCAG#c12
21:03:14 [Loretta]
Typo: Requirement 4 twice in section 5.
21:03:24 [Loretta]
q+
21:03:52 [Loretta]
ack me
21:04:31 [shadi]
GV: defines *this* methodology, so quite normative
21:05:08 [shadi]
LGR: ambiguity with "WCAG conformance"
21:05:27 [shadi]
q+
21:06:36 [shadi]
...another example of normativity labnguage
21:06:37 [Loretta]
ack s
21:06:38 [shadi]
ack me
21:08:42 [ericvelleman]
q+
21:09:19 [shadi]
[[However, it is required that the following requirements defined by this methodology are met]]
21:10:34 [shadi]
EV: [[However, it is required by this methodology that the following requirements are met]]
21:11:03 [shadi]
GV: if you have any requirements at all then it is a standard
21:11:21 [shadi]
...can't even have "must", "shall", "require"
21:11:33 [shadi]
q+
21:12:18 [ericvelleman]
ack me
21:12:21 [shadi]
ack me
21:12:41 [Zakim]
-adam_solomon
21:13:00 [ericvelleman]
q+
21:14:03 [Loretta]
ack e
21:14:56 [shadi]
GV: if want a standard then has to be normative
21:15:11 [shadi]
...otherwise cannot use normative language
21:15:36 [ericvelleman]
q+
21:15:50 [shadi]
...could provide several methods
21:15:56 [shadi]
q+
21:16:39 [shadi]
...people could select between these methods
21:16:58 [shadi]
...or could just describe the method
21:17:36 [shadi]
...not sure what the benefit of the "must"s is
21:18:04 [Loretta]
ack e
21:18:06 [shadi]
...possibly can achieve the same goal without using normative language
21:18:47 [shadi]
EV: when people select one of several methods, they still need to follow particular steps
21:19:31 [shadi]
...would replace "Requirement" with "step" help?
21:19:46 [shadi]
GV: yes, just describe the process
21:20:30 [shadi]
ack me
21:21:11 [Loretta]
q+
21:21:53 [greggvanderheiden]
q+
21:22:25 [Loretta]
ack me
21:22:52 [shadi]
LGR: would be OK with making language as clear as possible and adding editor notes for public feedback
21:23:02 [David]
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21:23:23 [Loretta]
ack g
21:24:02 [shadi]
GV: taking the normative language out may get readers more focused on the actual content
21:24:15 [Zakim]
+David_MacDonald
21:26:03 [shadi]
...not sure of benefits of making REC other than referencability, such as by policies
21:27:29 [Loretta]
If we want to go toward a normative methodology, it would help to separate the WCAG-specific info from the general website evaluation parts.
21:28:36 [ericvelleman]
q+
21:29:59 [marcjohlic_]
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21:30:11 [Zakim]
-Andi_Snow_Weaver
21:31:25 [Loretta]
I'm not sure how many of us will be at TPAC.
21:31:45 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/2011/eval/eval-tf#meetings
21:32:28 [ericvelleman]
ack me
21:32:29 [shadi]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/2011/eval/track/
21:32:58 [Zakim]
-Robin_Tuttle
21:33:10 [Zakim]
-Marc_Johlic
21:35:09 [Zakim]
-andrew
21:35:11 [Zakim]
-Bruce_Bailey
21:35:14 [Zakim]
-[Microsoft]
21:35:15 [Zakim]
-Kathy_Wahlbin
21:35:24 [Zakim]
-David_MacDonald
21:35:25 [Zakim]
-Cooper
21:35:25 [Zakim]
-Eric_Velleman
21:35:27 [Zakim]
-Loretta_Guarino_Reid
21:35:29 [Zakim]
-Shadi
21:36:02 [MichaelC]
zakim, drop Gregg
21:36:02 [Zakim]
Gregg_Vanderheiden is being disconnected
21:36:03 [Zakim]
WAI_WCAG()4:00PM has ended
21:36:03 [Zakim]
Attendees were Robin_Tuttle, Bruce_Bailey, Loretta_Guarino_Reid, Shadi, andrew, Kathy_Wahlbin, adam_solomon, Eric_Velleman, Cooper, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Gregg_Vanderheiden,
21:36:03 [Zakim]
... Marc_Johlic, [Microsoft], David_MacDonald
21:36:13 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make minutes
21:36:13 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-wai-wcag-minutes.html MichaelC
21:37:59 [ericvelleman]
ericvelleman has left #wai-wcag
21:54:12 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, make minutes
21:54:12 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/30-wai-wcag-minutes.html MichaelC
21:55:55 [MichaelC]
rrsagent, bye
21:55:55 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items