18:17:50 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #cg
18:17:50 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/29-cg-irc
18:25:37 <sharper> sharper has joined #cg
18:26:49 <shadi_bbl> shadi_bbl has joined #cg
18:28:02 <shawn> shawn has joined #cg
18:29:10 <Judy> agenda+ Confirming schedule for remainder of 3Q, Sept 12 and Sept 26
18:29:49 <janina> janina has joined #cg
18:29:49 <Judy> agenda+ Updates on mobile accessibility
18:29:58 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #cg
18:30:12 <shadi> zakim, this is cg
18:30:12 <Zakim> ok, shadi; that matches WAI_CG()2:30PM
18:30:14 <Zakim> +Judy
18:30:21 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
18:30:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see Shadi, ??P14, Judy
18:30:21 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
18:30:22 <Zakim> On the phone I see Shadi, ??P14, Judy
18:30:33 <janina> zakim, ??P14 is Janina
18:30:33 <Zakim> +Janina; got it
18:30:37 <Zakim> +Jeanne
18:31:12 <sharper> zakim, code?
18:31:12 <Zakim> the conference code is 92424 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), sharper
18:31:19 <shawn> zakim, dial shawn-617
18:31:19 <Zakim> ok, shawn; the call is being made
18:31:20 <Zakim> +Shawn
18:32:20 <Zakim> +??P20
18:32:22 <sharper> zakim, ??P20 is sharper
18:32:22 <Zakim> +sharper; got it
18:33:01 <Judy> agenda+ html & accessibility & formal objection
18:33:29 <shawn> ack me
18:33:51 <shawn> agenda?
18:33:58 <shawn> zakim, mute me
18:33:58 <Zakim> Shawn should now be muted
18:35:06 <sharper> scribe: Harper_Simon
18:35:06 <sharper> ScribeNick: sharper
18:35:15 <Judy> zakim, take up first item
18:35:15 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take up first item', Judy
18:35:21 <sharper> zakim, take up item 1
18:35:21 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Confirming schedule for remainder of 3Q, Sept 12 and Sept 26" taken up [from Judy]
18:35:56 <shawn> ack me
18:36:05 <sharper> zakim, agenda?
18:36:05 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
18:36:07 <Zakim> 1. Confirming schedule for remainder of 3Q, Sept 12 and Sept 26 [from Judy]
18:36:07 <Zakim> 2. Updates on mobile accessibility [from Judy]
18:36:07 <Zakim> 3. html & accessibility & formal objection [from Judy]
18:36:14 <sharper> zakim, take up item 2
18:36:14 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Updates on mobile accessibility" taken up [from Judy]
18:36:22 <shawn> http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Mobile_Accessibility
18:36:48 <sharper> Shawn starts to explain mobile accessibility
18:38:20 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
18:38:20 <Zakim> On the phone I see Shadi, Janina, Judy, Jeanne, Shawn, sharper
18:39:17 <shadi> ack me
18:39:17 <sharper> SLH: asking for comments
18:40:40 <sharper> SLH: nows the time to speak up.
18:40:50 <sharper> ALL: No comment
18:41:01 <shadi> "This may be WCAG Techniques" -> "This may include ..."?
18:41:16 <shadi> "be" sounds limiting
18:41:35 <shadi> zakim, mute me
18:41:35 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
18:44:02 <sharper> Action: Janina to review list of all w3c specs current and under development for additional specs relevant to mobile platforms
18:44:02 <trackbot> Created ACTION-110 - Review list of all w3c specs current and under development for additional specs relevant to mobile platforms [on Janina Sajka - due 2012-09-05].
18:44:10 <shawn> ACTION: Janina review Standards for Web Applications on Mobile and see which ones we might want to highlight in the last bullet under http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Mobile_Accessibility#W3C_WAI_Addresses_Mobile_Accessibility
18:44:10 <trackbot> Created ACTION-111 - Review Standards for Web Applications on Mobile and see which ones we might want to highlight in the last bullet under http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Mobile_Accessibility#W3C_WAI_Addresses_Mobile_Accessibility [on Janina Sajka - due 2012-09-05].
18:46:40 <sharper> JB: Within staff having a series of discussions, as mobile is critical for WAI, redefining itself in - lots of work being done overall in W3C - already some guidance relevant to mobile accessibility. WAI CG needs to do more coordination and packaging - SLH is doing the packaging.
18:47:12 <sharper> JB: making sure resource consumers have a good coordinated landing page.
18:47:44 <sharper> JB: More focused on mobile for coordination - at next few cg meetings
18:48:27 <sharper> JB: any other input for SLH on the page to date
18:49:03 <shawn> SH: coordinatation group wanted to contribute to the Note
18:49:31 <shawn> ... Is there anything specific the CG wanted us to inlude wrt the roadmap.
18:49:44 <sharper> JB: think possible confusion re - road map
18:49:54 <shawn> s/inlude wrt the roadmap/include wrt the roadmap/
18:50:28 <sharper> JB: one issue in-terms of research road map - and one re roadmap for coordination.
18:51:23 <shadi> http://www.w3.org/WAI/RD/2012/mobile/
18:51:43 <shadi> [[This symposium brought together researchers and practitioners to discuss these challenges and possible solutions, to help develop a roadmap for future research and development in the field.]]
18:52:02 <shawn> SH: concerned with the R&D aspects. roadmap comes from research from the syposium. research topics, e.g., accessibility & security...
18:52:25 <shawn> ... necessary for R&D commnuity to focus on in the future
18:52:47 <shawn> ... Research Roamap is fine - might even call it Future Directions
18:53:03 <shawn> .. asking for contributions or any text that the CG would want to include in the Note
18:53:35 <shawn> ... trying to get at that now. we're working on the Note now. want to include it from the start, rather than afterward
18:55:12 <shadi> q+
18:57:26 <shadi> ack me
18:59:19 <jeanne> q+ to ask that there be an emphasis on existing mobile work in WAI
19:00:50 <sharper> SAZ: suggest we invite chairs to comment on the RDWG Mobile note to help develop the draft
19:01:23 <sharper> SAZ: bring people into the RDWG discussion.
19:02:19 <sharper> JB: sees what gets lost when people don't talk together across groups. Could be effective - may end up with RDWG participants explaining and checking etc
19:02:53 <shadi> [[agrees - comments are passive while discussion implies that editors have pre-prepared questions for their peers]]
19:03:10 <sharper> JB: bring people in to explain technical bits - keep feeding WAI-CG - RDWG needs to figure this out - what is the most efficient work model
19:03:14 <shawn> ack j
19:03:14 <Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to ask that there be an emphasis on existing mobile work in WAI
19:03:53 <Judy> s/work model/work model, with regard to group-to-group coordination, and getting outcomes from the symposia topics 
19:04:16 <sharper> JS: remembering from symposium day - number of speakers operating from a context of 'no accessibility standards' - JR presented existing work - we should include this.
19:04:19 <jeanne> ack jeann
19:05:24 <sharper> JB: in terms of workflow from RDWG - JB: in there as a pre-publication check - also with CG is critical for workflow of note publication.
19:06:17 <Judy> ...in order that CG understands all the issues that RDWG is seeing, and either agrees, and takes on board the conclusions; or pushes back, and sorts things out.
19:06:30 <shawn> SH: afaik, we normally put things through CG. The Metrics note is the first one. Expect CG would read it. Not sure how W3C flow works?
19:06:44 <shadi> q+
19:06:50 <shawn> s/through CG./through CG, e.g., the Call for Papers./
19:08:00 <shadi> ack me
19:09:39 <sharper> SAZ: likes the scout analogy; we have a very tight time schedule trying to be affective and productive - trying to breakthrough to more challenging topics - don't want to be bogged down. We have had delays due to it being anew group. GC required as long as not impacting neg. on teh group
19:09:47 <sharper> s/teh/the
19:09:51 <Judy> (Judy: RDWG may want to think of itself as scouts, out in the field ahead of other groups; and needing to say when you have the *results* of a session, "hey CG, this is what we found")
19:10:33 <sharper> JB: thinking about what happens with the results of the outcomes 
19:11:17 <sharper> JB: what RDWG chooses to do with results is a critical question - want impact in the form of chances to the 'landscape'
19:11:54 <sharper> JB: want to ID a follow up - or post it up so people can stumble across it
19:15:40 <sharper> JB: Maybe worth a CG side pre-check - to avoid missed topics - run it through CG with polishing.
19:15:51 <sharper> s/with/while
19:17:03 <sharper> SAZ: able to get editors drafts out quickly - maybe best to get comments when we have something to get comments on
19:17:49 <sharper> SAZ: for instance, TC maybe with the user agent groups and WCAG
19:18:08 <sharper> SAZ each note is unique and will have a different tone.
19:19:11 <sharper> JB: for w3c which has 300 or so member organisations - not just a question of having w3c groups as audience, or rest of the world - but also the w3c membership.
19:19:51 <sharper> JB: good to think how we get to them - how are getting them interested in the next symposium.
19:20:35 <sharper> JB: maybe come back to this in the next few months regarding very specific points - what relates to your group etc , can you take up the things we point out.
19:20:47 <sharper> zakim, agenda?
19:20:47 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
19:20:48 <shawn> ack me
19:20:49 <Zakim> 1. Confirming schedule for remainder of 3Q, Sept 12 and Sept 26 [from Judy]
19:20:49 <Zakim> 2. Updates on mobile accessibility [from Judy]
19:20:49 <Zakim> 3. html & accessibility & formal objection [from Judy]
19:21:12 <shawn> zakim, mute me
19:21:12 <Zakim> Shawn should now be muted
19:21:16 <sharper> RESOLVED:  Updates on mobile accessibility approved
19:21:32 <sharper> zakim, close item 2
19:21:32 <Zakim> agendum 2, Updates on mobile accessibility, closed
19:21:33 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
19:21:33 <Zakim> 1. Confirming schedule for remainder of 3Q, Sept 12 and Sept 26 [from Judy]
19:22:30 <shawn> agenda+ guidance for accessibility in contracts https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-cg/2012JulSep/0013.html
19:23:01 <shadi> ack me
19:23:11 <sharper> zakim, take up item 3
19:23:11 <Zakim> agendum 3. "html & accessibility & formal objection" taken up [from Judy]
19:23:15 <shadi> zakim, mute me
19:23:15 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
19:23:40 <sharper> JB: ongoing series of challenging issues being negotiated between the accessibility and html WGs
19:24:27 <sharper> JB: formal objections from PF since html trying to redefine ARIA
19:25:22 <sharper> JB: important due to how expertise are acknowledge and horizontal dependancies are handled 
19:25:31 <janina> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2012JulSep/0130.html
19:25:58 <Judy> the link from Janina is to the formal objection that is under expedited appeal at the moment
19:26:41 <sharper> JS: seems to be a catalyst to get other objections heard
19:27:32 <shawn> agenda?
19:27:33 <sharper> JB: questions and comments?
19:27:36 <shawn> ack me
19:28:02 <sharper> zakim, close item 3
19:28:02 <Zakim> agendum 3, html & accessibility & formal objection, closed
19:28:03 <sharper> zakim, take up item 4
19:28:04 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
19:28:04 <Zakim> 1. Confirming schedule for remainder of 3Q, Sept 12 and Sept 26 [from Judy]
19:28:04 <Zakim> agendum 4. "guidance for accessibility in contracts https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-cg/2012JulSep/0013.html" taken up [from shawn]
19:28:44 <Judy> BSI 8878
19:29:02 <shawn> q+
19:29:11 <Judy> or EOWG docs, or EOWG docs-in-dev
19:29:29 <sharper> JS: ran into people and organisations, making new website - seems that it is common to get contractors -  maybe useful to put out guidance on contracting an accessible site
19:29:35 <shawn> ack me
19:30:49 <Judy> q+
19:31:05 <sharper> SLH: we had talked about this in EO - not made a priority - consider this via WAI-Engage - people happy to share language - open up as a topic so we get a crowd-sourcing approach.
19:31:50 <sharper> JB: the concept of commissioning BSI 8878 - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAS_78
19:31:56 <shawn> [ we also had on EOWG's wishlist guidance on selecting accessibility specialists]
19:32:01 <sharper> http://shop.bsigroup.com/en/ProductDetail/?pid=000000000030129227
19:32:34 <shawn> q+
19:32:36 <shawn> ack j
19:32:39 <shadi> q+
19:32:47 <sharper> JB: maybe better for EO instead of WAI-Engage as there are some subtleties, not sure
19:33:12 <shawn> ack shadi
19:33:22 <jeanne> it also needs to have an international orientation
19:33:22 <sharper> JB: may want this to be authoritative via EO
19:33:49 <sharper> SAZ - may not have to be either / or - could be both - community group could do a lot of pre-work
19:33:57 <janina> Burger King Delivers: http://bkdelivers.com
19:34:07 <shawn> q+ to say cannot be priority for EOWG. agree can use WAI-Engage as gathering ideas. and might polish as WAI Resource in the future
19:34:07 <shadi> zakim, mute me
19:34:08 <shawn> ack me
19:34:08 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
19:34:08 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say cannot be priority for EOWG. agree can use WAI-Engage as gathering ideas. and might polish as WAI Resource in the future
19:34:10 <sharper> SAZ: info could flow into EO from community group
19:34:54 <sharper> SLH: can't be a priority for EO right now - use engage first - polish and publish in the future
19:35:15 <sharper> q+
19:35:30 <Judy> actually the replacement link should be http://shop.bsigroup.com/en/ProductDetail/?pid=000000000030180388
19:35:38 <sharper> replacement link for latest version: http://shop.bsigroup.com/en/ProductDetail/?pid=000000000030180388
19:35:55 <sharper> ack me
19:35:55 <sharper> ]
19:36:12 <shawn> SH: worried if North American centric
19:36:15 <shadi> +1
19:36:21 <shawn> +1
19:36:28 <shadi> q+
19:36:36 <shawn> q+ to say will actively get broader
19:36:38 <shawn> ack me
19:36:38 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say will actively get broader
19:37:19 <sharper> SH: need an international perspective regarding legal
19:37:23 <shadi> ack me
19:37:49 <shawn> SLH: Will actively get broad international input
19:38:00 <shadi> zakim, mute me
19:38:00 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
19:38:04 <sharper> SAZ: agrees on international perspective - BSI attached to UK legal system - we want international 
19:38:08 <shawn> q?
19:38:44 <sharper> JS: hopeful international issues dealt best with in w3c
19:39:25 <shadi> ack me
19:39:44 <sharper> RESOLVED: next meeting in 2 weeks
19:39:53 <Judy> agenda+ publications check
19:40:06 <sharper> topic :  publications check
19:40:07 <shawn> https://www.w3.org/WAI/CG/Group/announcements
19:40:14 <sharper> zakim, close item 4
19:40:14 <Zakim> agendum 4, guidance for accessibility in contracts https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-cg/2012JulSep/0013.html, closed
19:40:14 <sharper> zakim, take up item 5
19:40:16 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
19:40:16 <Zakim> 1. Confirming schedule for remainder of 3Q, Sept 12 and Sept 26 [from Judy]
19:40:16 <Zakim> agendum 5. "publications check" taken up [from Judy]
19:40:33 <shadi> ack me
19:41:46 <sharper> SAZ: WAI-ACT mid September / RDWG - Metrics published tomorrow
19:42:11 <shadi> zakim, mute me
19:42:11 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
19:44:20 <Zakim> -Janina
19:44:35 <Zakim> -Judy
19:44:36 <Zakim> -Jeanne
19:44:36 <Zakim> -Shawn
19:44:37 <Zakim> -Shadi
19:44:41 <Zakim> -sharper
19:44:42 <Zakim> WAI_CG()2:30PM has ended
19:44:42 <Zakim> Attendees were Shadi, Judy, Janina, Jeanne, Shawn, sharper
19:44:51 <sharper> rrsagent, make logs public
19:44:52 <sharper> rrsagent, draft minutes
19:44:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/29-cg-minutes.html sharper
19:45:16 <sharper> zakim, please part
19:45:16 <Zakim> Zakim has left #cg
19:45:22 <sharper> rrsagent, draft minutes
19:45:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/29-cg-minutes.html sharper
19:45:46 <sharper> rrsagent, please part
19:45:46 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/29-cg-actions.rdf :
19:45:46 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Janina to review list of all w3c specs current and under development for additional specs relevant to mobile platforms [1]
19:45:46 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/29-cg-irc#T18-44-02
19:45:46 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Janina review Standards for Web Applications on Mobile and see which ones we might want to highlight in the last bullet under http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Mobile_Accessibility#W3C_WAI_Addresses_Mobile_Accessibility [2]
19:45:46 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/29-cg-irc#T18-44-10