13:55:07 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
13:55:07 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/24-wcag2ict-irc
13:55:09 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:55:09 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #wcag2ict
13:55:11 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2428
13:55:11 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
13:55:12 <trackbot> Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
13:55:12 <trackbot> Date: 24 August 2012
13:55:32 <Andi> chair: Mike_Pluke
13:55:39 <Andi> scribe: Andi_Snow-Weaver
13:55:44 <Andi> scribenick: Andi
13:55:49 <Andi> regrets: Alex_Li
13:56:10 <Kiran> Kiran has joined #wcag2ict
13:58:47 <Mike> Mike has joined #wcag2ict
13:59:05 <Andi> zakim, who is on the phone?
13:59:05 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has not yet started, Andi
13:59:06 <Zakim> On IRC I see Mike, Kiran, Zakim, RRSAgent, Andi, shadi, trackbot
13:59:38 <shadi> hi andi
13:59:40 <Loic> Loic has joined #wcag2ict
13:59:46 <shadi> i'm calling in right now
13:59:54 <greggvanderheiden> greggvanderheiden has joined #wcag2ict
13:59:56 <David> David has joined #wcag2ict
14:00:16 <shadi> zakim, this is wcag2ict
14:00:16 <Zakim> ok, shadi; that matches WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM
14:00:25 <Zakim> +BBailey
14:00:27 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
14:00:28 <shadi> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:00:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Korn, ??P3, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Kiran, ??P7, BBailey, David_MacDonald
14:00:35 <shadi> zakim, code?
14:00:35 <Zakim> the conference code is 2428 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), shadi
14:00:54 <BBailey> BBailey has joined #wcag2ict
14:00:59 <Loic> zakim, ??p7 is Loic_Martinez
14:00:59 <Zakim> +Loic_Martinez; got it
14:01:13 <Zakim> +Gregg_Vanderheiden
14:01:15 <Andi> zakim, ??P3 is Mike_Pluke
14:01:15 <Zakim> +Mike_Pluke; got it
14:01:19 <Zakim> +Shadi
14:01:28 <Zakim> +MaryJo
14:03:19 <Andi> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:03:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see Peter_Korn, Mike_Pluke, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Kiran, Loic_Martinez, BBailey, David_MacDonald, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Shadi, MaryJo
14:03:20 <MaryJo> MaryJo has joined #wcag2ict
14:03:44 <shadi> zakim, mute me
14:03:44 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
14:03:54 <Zakim> +??P1
14:04:14 <Andi> zakim, ??P1 is Janina_Sajka
14:04:14 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
14:04:19 <janina> janina has joined #wcag2ict
14:04:42 <janina> zakim, mute me
14:04:42 <Zakim> Janina_Sajka should now be muted
14:04:59 <Andi> Survey on Glossary - Part 1: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/GLOSSARY1/results
14:07:10 <Andi> topic: abbreviation, alternative for time-based media, ASCII art, audio, audio description, audio-only
14:07:56 <Andi> RESOLUTION: abbreviation, alternative for time-based media, ASCII art, audio, audio description, audio-only apply to non-Web ICT as is.
14:08:18 <Andi> topic: blinking
14:09:12 <Andi> topic: captions, emergency, extended audio description, flash, human language
14:09:39 <Andi> RESOLUTION: captions, emergency, extended audio description, flash, human language apply to non-Web ICT as is.
14:09:56 <Andi> topic: blinking
14:12:27 <Loic> q+
14:12:39 <Andi> q+
14:13:10 <Andi> q-
14:13:18 <Andi> ack Loic
14:14:25 <Zakim> +Pierce_Crowell
14:14:47 <Andi> discussion about buttons that might blink or pulse in order to draw attention to them
14:14:49 <Pierce> Pierce has joined #wcag2ict
14:15:18 <Andi> if they pulse for more than 5 seconds, it would be a violation of 2.2.2
14:17:01 <Andi> some UI's cycle through a multiplicity of states in order to call attention to something
14:17:58 <Andi> potentially need to add something to INTENT that slow cycling through a number of states is not blinking
14:18:27 <Mike> q+
14:18:42 <David> q+
14:18:51 <Andi> the intent of the success criteria is to cover anything that attracts your attention because they can't be ignored by some people
14:19:18 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
14:19:55 <Andi> ack Mike
14:20:00 <Zakim> +??P1
14:20:17 <Andi> q+ Peter
14:20:20 <janina> zakim, ??P1 is Janina_Sajka
14:20:20 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
14:20:27 <janina> zakim, mute me
14:20:27 <Zakim> Janina_Sajka should now be muted
14:20:41 <Andi> q+
14:21:07 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:21:14 <Andi> ack David
14:21:23 <Andi> ack Peter
14:22:42 <BBailey> q+ to say Peter is describing animation not blinking.
14:23:43 <Andi> ack Andi
14:24:39 <Andi> suggestion that moving between multiple states IS "blinking" per this definition
14:25:10 <Andi> ack bbailey
14:25:10 <Zakim> BBailey, you wanted to say Peter is describing animation not blinking.
14:25:17 <Andi> ack gregg
14:25:39 <Mike> q+
14:27:24 <Andi> others do not view moving between multiple states as "blinking" per this definition
14:28:07 <greggvanderheiden> s/multiple states/two states in multiple steps/
14:28:08 <Andi> ack Mike
14:28:16 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:29:05 <Andi> ack gregg
14:29:25 <Andi> suggestion that cycling between multiple states is "animation", not "blinking"
14:29:29 <Mike> q+
14:29:45 <Andi> q+
14:30:00 <Andi> zakim, who is making noise?
14:30:02 <BBailey> q+ to say the Mac animation takes a couple seconds to complete
14:30:03 <David> zakim, who's making noise?
14:30:12 <Zakim> Andi, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Mike_Pluke (20%), Peter_Korn (9%), Gregg_Vanderheiden (79%)
14:30:23 <Zakim> David, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Peter_Korn (18%), Kiran (13%)
14:30:36 <David> zakim, mute kiran
14:30:36 <Zakim> Kiran should now be muted
14:31:39 <Andi> example - lozenge style button - blue - cycling between two colors of blue
14:31:43 <Kiran> zakim unmute me
14:31:44 <Andi> ack Mike
14:32:40 <greggvanderheiden> q+
14:33:27 <Kiran> zakim, unmute me
14:33:27 <Zakim> Kiran should no longer be muted
14:33:41 <Pierce> its peter...which item are we on...?
14:34:04 <Andi> s/cycling between two colors of blue/cycling through many shades of blue/
14:34:52 <Andi> another example, could also cycle through more than two distinct colors - red, yellow, green, etc.
14:35:07 <Andi> ack Andi
14:35:24 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
14:35:48 <Andi> ack bbailey
14:35:48 <Zakim> BBailey, you wanted to say the Mac animation takes a couple seconds to complete
14:35:54 <Zakim> +??P0
14:36:12 <Andi> busy animation examples don't last more than a second or two
14:36:13 <janina> zakim, ??P0 is Janina_Sajka
14:36:13 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
14:36:17 <janina> zakim, mute me
14:36:17 <Zakim> Janina_Sajka should now be muted
14:36:31 <korn> korn has joined #wcag2ict
14:37:28 <Andi> ack gregg
14:38:28 <Andi> topic: blocks of text
14:39:09 <Andi> q+
14:40:39 <greggvanderheiden> .4.8 Visual Presentation: For the visual presentation of blocks of text, a mechanism is available to achieve the following: (Level AAA)
14:40:39 <greggvanderheiden> Foreground and background colors can be selected by the user.
14:40:41 <greggvanderheiden> Width is no more than 80 characters or glyphs (40 if CJK).
14:40:42 <greggvanderheiden> Text is not justified (aligned to both the left and the right margins).
14:40:43 <greggvanderheiden> Line spacing (leading) is at least space-and-a-half within paragraphs, and paragraph spacing is at least 1.5 times larger than the line spacing.
14:40:44 <greggvanderheiden> Text can be resized without assistive technology up to 200 percent in a way that does not require the user to scroll horizontally to read a line of text on a full-screen window.
14:40:56 <Andi> ack Andi
14:43:41 <Andi> defer "blocks of text" until we get to the AAA, specifically 1.4.8
14:44:12 <Andi> topic: blinking
14:45:02 <Andi> s/get to the AAA,/get to the AAA success criteria,/
14:46:09 <Andi> for 2.2.2, SC language doesn't quite accomplish what the intent describes
14:46:40 <korn> q+
14:47:39 <Mike> q+
14:48:44 <David> q+
14:49:40 <Andi> ack korn
14:49:48 <Pierce> +1
14:49:52 <Andi> ack mike
14:50:16 <Pierce> +1 to clarifying with WCAG and moving on...
14:50:20 <David> q-
14:50:27 <korn> q+
14:50:54 <korn> q-
14:51:47 <Andi> action: Peter to ask WCAG to clarify their intent with regard to "blinking" and the examples of the button and multiple colors
14:51:47 <trackbot> Created ACTION-51 - Ask WCAG to clarify their intent with regard to "blinking" and the examples of the button and multiple colors [on Peter Korn - due 2012-08-31].
14:51:53 <Andi> topic: CAPTCHA
14:53:37 <greggvanderheiden> You can toss it to WCAG by just writing a note to the chairs.  
14:54:58 <Andi> RESOLUTION: CAPTCHA applies to non-Web ICT as is
14:55:20 <Andi> topic: conformance
14:55:39 <Andi> s/You can toss it to WCAG by just writing a note to the chairs.//
14:56:34 <Andi> zakim, who is on the queue?
14:56:34 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
14:59:13 <Pierce> +1 on putting it off...wise
14:59:42 <Andi> defer "conformance" until we close on the discussion around the conformance criteria
15:00:14 <Pierce> could easily derail the conversation
15:00:32 <Andi> topic: context-sensitive help
15:00:51 <Pierce> +q
15:01:20 <korn> q+
15:01:31 <Andi> ack Pierce
15:02:00 <Zakim> +[Oracle]
15:02:07 <Zakim> -Peter_Korn
15:02:52 <Andi> zakim, [Oracle] has Peter_Korn
15:02:52 <Zakim> +Peter_Korn; got it
15:04:00 <Andi> discussion about the note - what is a "clear label"?
15:04:54 <Pierce> +q
15:05:03 <Andi> example of a text label with a colon to the left of a field - is that context-sensitive help?
15:05:25 <Pierce> -q
15:05:33 <korn> q-
15:05:44 <Andi> if the label doesn't provide all of the restrictions on the input, then it's not context-sensitive help
15:06:09 <Andi> action: Peter to discuss the issue of "clear label" in the definition of "context-sensitive help"
15:06:09 <trackbot> Created ACTION-52 - Discuss the issue of "clear label" in the definition of "context-sensitive help" [on Peter Korn - due 2012-08-31].
15:06:35 <greggvanderheiden> a better way for WCAG to to say this might have been "a label is a viable way of conveying context sensitive help"
15:07:20 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
15:08:39 <Zakim> +??P0
15:08:55 <janina> zakim, ??P0 is Janina_Sajka
15:08:55 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
15:09:02 <janina> zakim, mute me
15:09:02 <Zakim> Janina_Sajka should now be muted
15:10:34 <Andi> defer "context-sensitive help" as it is only used in a AAA success criterion, specifically 3.3.5
15:10:58 <Andi> topic: essential
15:13:20 <Andi> RESOLUTION: "essential" applies to non-Web ICT as is
15:13:39 <Andi> topic: functionality
15:17:23 <Loic> funtionality is used is 1.4.4, 2.1.1 and 2.1.3
15:18:28 <Andi> RESOLUTION: "funtionality" applies to non-Web ICT as is
15:18:46 <Andi> topic: general flash and red flash thresholds
15:22:08 <Andi> action: Andi to modify introductory information discussing what content means in the introduction - 'where the word "content" or "web content" appear, it should be interpreted as [text we agreed to at the August 17th meeting]'
15:22:08 <trackbot> Created ACTION-53 - Modify introductory information discussing what content means in the introduction - 'where the word "content" or "web content" appear, it should be interpreted as [text we agreed to at the August 17th meeting]' [on Andi Snow-Weaver - due 2012-08-31].
15:22:40 <Andi> RESOLUTION: "general flash and red flash thresholds" applies to non-Web ICT as is
15:23:38 <Andi> suggestion that we need a reminder note here about hardware
15:24:03 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
15:24:52 <BBailey> q+ to say we might want to mention labels and key labels.
15:25:19 <Andi> note: because this deals with relative luminance and not luminance, it can only be applied to information on a display, not to hardware sources of light
15:28:20 <Andi> s/as is/with the following note: "because this deals with relative luminance and not luminance, it can only be applied to information on a display, not to hardware sources of light"/
15:28:37 <Andi> ack bbailey
15:28:37 <Zakim> BBailey, you wanted to say we might want to mention labels and key labels.
15:31:07 <Zakim> -Gregg_Vanderheiden
15:31:38 <Andi> next survey is open: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/GLOSSARY2/
15:32:06 <Andi> rrsagent, make minutes
15:32:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/24-wcag2ict-minutes.html Andi
15:32:07 <Zakim> -Pierce_Crowell
15:32:09 <Zakim> -[Oracle]
15:32:11 <Zakim> -Kiran
15:32:11 <Zakim> -MaryJo
15:32:13 <Zakim> -Shadi
15:32:13 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
15:32:14 <Zakim> -BBailey
15:32:14 <Zakim> -Andi_Snow_Weaver
15:32:16 <Zakim> -Loic_Martinez
15:32:18 <Zakim> -Mike_Pluke
15:32:19 <korn> korn has left #wcag2ict
15:32:20 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has ended
15:32:20 <Zakim> Attendees were Peter_Korn, Andi_Snow_Weaver, Kiran, BBailey, David_MacDonald, Loic_Martinez, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Mike_Pluke, Shadi, MaryJo, Janina_Sajka, Pierce_Crowell
15:32:22 <Andi> zakim, bye
15:32:25 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag2ict
15:32:30 <Andi> rrsagent, make minutes
15:32:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/24-wcag2ict-minutes.html Andi
15:47:03 <Andi> trackbot, end meeting
15:47:03 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:47:11 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:47:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/24-wcag2ict-minutes.html trackbot
15:47:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:47:12 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/24-wcag2ict-actions.rdf :
15:47:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Peter to ask WCAG to clarify their intent with regard to "blinking" and the examples of the button and multiple colors [1]
15:47:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/24-wcag2ict-irc#T14-51-47
15:47:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Peter to discuss the issue of "clear label" in the definition of "context-sensitive help" [2]
15:47:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/24-wcag2ict-irc#T15-06-09
15:47:12 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Andi to modify introductory information discussing what content means in the introduction - 'where the word "content" or "web content" appear, it should be interpreted as [text we agreed to at the August 17th meeting]' [3]
15:47:12 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/24-wcag2ict-irc#T15-22-08