IRC log of ua on 2012-08-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:10:08 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #ua
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/23-ua-irc
16:10:10 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
16:10:10 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #ua
16:10:12 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
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ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 50 minutes
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Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
16:10:13 [trackbot]
Date: 23 August 2012
16:10:22 [jallan]
rrsagent, set logs public
16:10:39 [jallan]
regrets: Kelly, Jan
16:10:52 [jallan]
chair: JimAllan
16:57:03 [jallan]
regrets+ Mark
16:58:27 [jallan]
agenda+ 2.5.3 Action 500 & 545 Agenda+ ACTION-740 toolbars (greg proposal) Agenda+ 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9 (kelly) Agenda+ 2.8 Toolbar configuration (Mark and Jaime) Action-747 (related to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0123.html) Agenda+ Acton-720 Ensure disabling images gets in 2.11 (Provide control of content that may reduce acc
16:58:49 [jallan]
zakim, remove item 1
16:58:49 [Zakim]
agendum 1, 2.5.3 Action 500 & 545 Agenda+ ACTION-740 toolbars (greg proposal) Agenda+ 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was
16:58:53 [Zakim]
... important from the now deleted 2.1.9 (kelly) Agenda+ 2.8 Toolbar configuration (Mark and Jaime) Action-747 (related to
16:58:53 [Zakim]
... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0123.html) Agenda+ Acton-720 Ensure disabling images gets in 2.11 (Provide control of content that may reduce acc,
16:58:53 [Zakim]
... dropped
16:59:05 [jallan]
agenda+ 2.5.3 Action 500 & 545
16:59:16 [jallan]
Agenda+ ACTION-740 toolbars (greg proposal)
16:59:21 [Greg]
Greg has joined #ua
16:59:27 [jallan]
Agenda+ 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9 (kelly)
16:59:37 [jallan]
Agenda+ 2.8 Toolbar configuration (Mark and Jaime) Action-747 (related to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0123.html)
16:59:53 [jallan]
Agenda+ Acton-720 Ensure disabling images gets in 2.11 (Provide control of content that may reduce accessibility)
17:00:06 [jallan]
agenda+ ACTION-743: Look at cleaning up glossary terms "serial access, sequential navigation" and linear navigation commands
17:00:24 [jallan]
agenda+ review changes to "What qualifies as a user agent"
17:00:52 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started
17:00:59 [Zakim]
+Greg_Lowney
17:01:14 [Zakim]
+Jim_Allan
17:02:34 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
17:03:14 [Zakim]
+Kim_Patch
17:03:58 [Zakim]
-Jeanne
17:04:25 [jallan]
zakim, agenda?
17:04:25 [Zakim]
I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
17:04:26 [Zakim]
2. 2.5.3 Action 500 & 545 [from jallan]
17:04:26 [Zakim]
3. ACTION-740 toolbars (greg proposal) [from jallan]
17:04:28 [Zakim]
4. 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9 (kelly) [from jallan]
17:04:31 [Zakim]
5. 2.8 Toolbar configuration (Mark and Jaime) Action-747 (related to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0123.html) [from jallan]
17:04:34 [Zakim]
6. Acton-720 Ensure disabling images gets in 2.11 (Provide control of content that may reduce accessibility) [from jallan]
17:04:37 [Zakim]
7. ACTION-743: Look at cleaning up glossary terms "serial access, sequential navigation" and linear navigation commands [from jallan]
17:04:40 [Zakim]
8. review changes to "What qualifies as a user agent" [from jallan]
17:04:42 [Zakim]
+Jeanne
17:06:16 [sharper]
sharper has joined #ua
17:08:23 [jallan]
scribe: jallan
17:08:35 [jallan]
zakim, open item 8
17:08:35 [Zakim]
agendum 8. "review changes to "What qualifies as a user agent"" taken up [from jallan]
17:09:27 [Zakim]
+??P15
17:09:32 [jallan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JulSep/0049.html
17:09:35 [sharper]
zakim, ??P15 is sharper
17:09:35 [Zakim]
+sharper; got it
17:12:29 [jeanne]
These guidelines employ the following tests to determine if software
17:12:29 [jeanne]
qualifies as a user agent. UAAG 2.0 divides potential user agents into
17:12:29 [jeanne]
* platform-based application
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* extension or plug-in
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* web-based application
17:12:30 [jeanne]
If the following three conditions are met, then it is a platform-based
17:12:32 [jeanne]
application:
17:12:34 [jeanne]
* It is a standalone application, and
17:12:36 [jeanne]
* It interprets any W3C-specified language, and
17:12:38 [jeanne]
* It provides a user interface or interprets a procedural or declarative
17:12:40 [jeanne]
language that may be used to provide a user interface
17:14:43 [jallan]
sh: happy with this wording, platform-based is a good thing.
17:14:48 [jallan]
+1
17:15:12 [jallan]
gl: like the approach
17:15:51 [jallan]
... definition of platform application.
17:16:36 [jallan]
... host a browser inside an application. e.g. can put a browser inside Eclipse.
17:16:55 [jallan]
... Eclipse is an application hosting application.
17:17:23 [jallan]
kp: should be changed to platform based application
17:18:10 [jallan]
gl: def of extension or plugin
17:18:22 [jallan]
kp: this was extended also
17:18:26 [jallan]
gl:
17:19:31 [jallan]
... so the browser inside Eclipse would be a plugin or extension to Eclipse
17:20:06 [jallan]
gl: so an extension or plugin may not be web orientented
17:20:36 [jallan]
js: right, most extensions deal with UI
17:20:45 [jallan]
kp: this is a good thing.
17:21:27 [jallan]
gl: are there languages that are neither procedural or declarative?
17:23:16 [jallan]
sh: this was to get around things that are rendered that don't modify the DOM. e.g. a UI done in Canvas that never modifies the DOM
17:24:16 [jallan]
... thinks this is still reasonable. things that masquerade like a UA, it should be a UA
17:24:52 [jallan]
js: thinks we are ok. but #3 has to be all three conditions. are we locking anyone out?
17:25:19 [jallan]
gl: is there really any difference between 1 and 3? differences seem subtle
17:25:56 [jallan]
... 1 and 3a are simular
17:28:10 [jallan]
sh: hesitate to remove language without Jan and Markku, this has been thrashed many times. should tread lightly.
17:28:44 [jallan]
all happy with language change "platform based application"
17:29:34 [jallan]
gl: would change word. we are talking about platform web-based application. it could be confusing
17:30:04 [jallan]
js: this is an informative section. It should not introduce confusion.
17:31:50 [jallan]
zakim, close item 8
17:31:50 [Zakim]
agendum 8, review changes to "What qualifies as a user agent", closed
17:31:51 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:31:51 [Zakim]
2. 2.5.3 Action 500 & 545 [from jallan]
17:32:05 [jallan]
zakim, agenda?
17:32:05 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
17:32:07 [Zakim]
2. 2.5.3 Action 500 & 545 [from jallan]
17:32:07 [Zakim]
3. ACTION-740 toolbars (greg proposal) [from jallan]
17:32:07 [Zakim]
4. 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9 (kelly) [from jallan]
17:32:07 [Zakim]
5. 2.8 Toolbar configuration (Mark and Jaime) Action-747 (related to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0123.html) [from jallan]
17:32:08 [Zakim]
6. Acton-720 Ensure disabling images gets in 2.11 (Provide control of content that may reduce accessibility) [from jallan]
17:32:11 [Zakim]
7. ACTION-743: Look at cleaning up glossary terms "serial access, sequential navigation" and linear navigation commands [from jallan]
17:32:39 [jeanne]
Resolution: Postpone discussion of User Agent tests until next week when Jan and Mark are presesnt
17:32:54 [jallan]
zakim, open item 2
17:32:54 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "2.5.3 Action 500 & 545" taken up [from jallan]
17:32:57 [jallan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JulSep/0045.html
17:35:21 [jallan]
kp: =1
17:35:28 [jallan]
sh: +1
17:35:59 [jallan]
Resolution: add new 2.5.3 from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JulSep/0045.html to the document.
17:36:16 [jallan]
zakim: close item 2
17:36:45 [jallan]
topic: decentralized extensibility
17:37:48 [jallan]
sh: was proposed html5. that anyone could create a new tag.
17:37:49 [jallan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JulSep/0044.html
17:38:02 [jallan]
ja: thought it was removed from html5
17:42:10 [jallan]
in section 2.2.3 in hTML5 http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/infrastructure.html#extensibility
17:43:33 [jallan]
js: need to make sure that this will stay in the document. there is a WAI-HTML5 A11Y taskforce working on this.
17:45:26 [jallan]
action: jallan to ping wai-a11y-html5 taskforce about extensibility of html5 and css and otherstuff
17:45:26 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-756 - Ping wai-a11y-html5 taskforce about extensibility of html5 and css and otherstuff [on Jim Allan - due 2012-08-30].
17:45:56 [jallan]
zakim: agenda?
17:46:14 [jeanne]
agenda?
17:46:19 [jallan]
zakim, agenda?
17:46:23 [Zakim]
I see 6 items remaining on the agenda:
17:46:25 [Zakim]
2. 2.5.3 Action 500 & 545 [from jallan]
17:46:27 [Zakim]
3. ACTION-740 toolbars (greg proposal) [from jallan]
17:46:29 [Zakim]
4. 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9 (kelly) [from jallan]
17:46:31 [Zakim]
5. 2.8 Toolbar configuration (Mark and Jaime) Action-747 (related to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0123.html) [from jallan]
17:46:35 [Zakim]
6. Acton-720 Ensure disabling images gets in 2.11 (Provide control of content that may reduce accessibility) [from jallan]
17:46:37 [Zakim]
7. ACTION-743: Look at cleaning up glossary terms "serial access, sequential navigation" and linear navigation commands [from jallan]
17:47:01 [jeanne]
close item-2
17:47:06 [jallan]
zakim, close item 2
17:47:06 [Zakim]
agendum 2, 2.5.3 Action 500 & 545, closed
17:47:06 [jeanne]
agenda?
17:47:07 [Zakim]
I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:47:07 [Zakim]
3. ACTION-740 toolbars (greg proposal) [from jallan]
17:47:48 [KimPatch]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JulSep/0050.html
17:48:04 [jallan]
zakim, open item 7
17:48:04 [Zakim]
agendum 7. "ACTION-743: Look at cleaning up glossary terms "serial access, sequential navigation" and linear navigation commands" taken up [from jallan]
17:48:36 [jallan]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JulSep/0050.html
17:50:23 [jallan]
kp: there is nothing that clashes.
17:50:55 [jallan]
js: adding Modality Independence Principle as a related resource to keyboard command, it was already part of keyboard
17:56:28 [jallan]
close item 7
17:57:43 [jallan]
agenda?
17:58:00 [jallan]
open item 4
17:58:27 [jeanne]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2012/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20120816/
18:01:13 [jallan]
http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2012/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20120731/#gl-keyboard-access
18:05:04 [jallan]
add to lauara ... She also use the user agent's preferences/options to redefine its keyboard shortcuts in the same way.
18:13:46 [jallan]
close action-750
18:13:46 [trackbot]
ACTION-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9 closed
18:14:09 [jallan]
close item 4
18:14:29 [jallan]
open item 6
18:18:46 [jallan]
change 2.11.1 user can have all recognized foreground and background images shown or hidden
18:19:23 [jallan]
gl: user should have independent control of each
18:20:28 [Greg]
2.11.A Foreground Image Toggle: The user can have all recognized foreground images shown or hidden. (Level A)
18:27:35 [jallan]
discussion of images, alt, 1.1 and 2.11
18:28:31 [Greg]
from 6/21: [10:59]GregBenefits of being able to turn off images include but are not limited to: (a) helping users avoid distraction; (b) increasing the amount of information that can be displayed at one time, including for people who do not make use of the images due to visual impairments, people who want to reduce the amount of scrolling, people who need to keep information on the screen...
18:28:32 [Greg]
...due to short-term memory...[10:59]Greg...issues; (c) avoiding pain caused by high visual contrast; etc.
18:29:54 [jallan]
gl: wants ability to turn off images, replace with alternative content, or a place holder.
18:33:40 [jallan]
js: decentralized extensability is a dead issue in HTML5
18:34:04 [jallan]
sh: do we take into account microformats and other extensions?
18:34:39 [jallan]
js: what would we have to do with microformat...they are machine readable...not intended for humans.
18:35:05 [jallan]
sh: vcard creates human readable content, google example
18:35:39 [jallan]
... the semantics in the format are presentational and the UA know how to render them
18:36:11 [jallan]
... there is lots of information on the a11y of microformats.
18:37:23 [jallan]
gl: sounds like there are a11y issues.
18:37:40 [Greg]
Microformat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
18:37:42 [Greg]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microformat
18:37:43 [Greg]
Although the content of web pages is technically already capable of "automated processing", and has been since the inception of the web, such processing is difficult because the traditional markup tags used to display information on the web do not describe what the information means.[2] Microformats can bridge this gap by attaching semantics, and thereby obviate other, more complicated,...
18:37:45 [Greg]
...methods of automated processing, such as natural language processing or screen scraping.
18:37:56 [jallan]
sh: will look into it further, to see if semantics can be related to a11y.
18:38:46 [jallan]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:38:46 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/23-ua-minutes.html jallan
18:38:53 [Zakim]
-sharper
18:38:57 [Zakim]
-Kim_Patch
18:38:59 [Zakim]
-Greg_Lowney
18:39:12 [jeanne]
ZAKIM, WHO IS HERE?
18:39:12 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Jim_Allan, Jeanne
18:39:13 [Zakim]
On IRC I see Greg, Zakim, RRSAgent, jallan, jeanne, KimPatch, trackbot
18:41:14 [Zakim]
-Jim_Allan
18:41:24 [Zakim]
-Jeanne
18:41:25 [Zakim]
WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended
18:41:25 [Zakim]
Attendees were Greg_Lowney, Jim_Allan, Jeanne, Kim_Patch, sharper
18:41:39 [jallan]
zakim, please part
18:41:39 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #ua
18:41:54 [jallan]
rrsagent, make minutes
18:41:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/23-ua-minutes.html jallan
18:42:19 [jallan]
rrsagent, please part
18:42:19 [RRSAgent]
I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/23-ua-actions.rdf :
18:42:19 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: jallan to ping wai-a11y-html5 taskforce about extensibility of html5 and css and otherstuff [1]
18:42:19 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/23-ua-irc#T17-45-26