16:10:08 RRSAgent has joined #ua 16:10:08 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/23-ua-irc 16:10:10 RRSAgent, make logs public 16:10:10 Zakim has joined #ua 16:10:12 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 16:10:12 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 50 minutes 16:10:13 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 16:10:13 Date: 23 August 2012 16:10:22 rrsagent, set logs public 16:10:39 regrets: Kelly, Jan 16:10:52 chair: JimAllan 16:57:03 regrets+ Mark 16:58:27 agenda+ 2.5.3 Action 500 & 545 Agenda+ ACTION-740 toolbars (greg proposal) Agenda+ 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9 (kelly) Agenda+ 2.8 Toolbar configuration (Mark and Jaime) Action-747 (related to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0123.html) Agenda+ Acton-720 Ensure disabling images gets in 2.11 (Provide control of content that may reduce acc 16:58:49 zakim, remove item 1 16:58:49 agendum 1, 2.5.3 Action 500 & 545 Agenda+ ACTION-740 toolbars (greg proposal) Agenda+ 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was 16:58:53 ... important from the now deleted 2.1.9 (kelly) Agenda+ 2.8 Toolbar configuration (Mark and Jaime) Action-747 (related to 16:58:53 ... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0123.html) Agenda+ Acton-720 Ensure disabling images gets in 2.11 (Provide control of content that may reduce acc, 16:58:53 ... dropped 16:59:05 agenda+ 2.5.3 Action 500 & 545 16:59:16 Agenda+ ACTION-740 toolbars (greg proposal) 16:59:21 Greg has joined #ua 16:59:27 Agenda+ 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9 (kelly) 16:59:37 Agenda+ 2.8 Toolbar configuration (Mark and Jaime) Action-747 (related to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0123.html) 16:59:53 Agenda+ Acton-720 Ensure disabling images gets in 2.11 (Provide control of content that may reduce accessibility) 17:00:06 agenda+ ACTION-743: Look at cleaning up glossary terms "serial access, sequential navigation" and linear navigation commands 17:00:24 agenda+ review changes to "What qualifies as a user agent" 17:00:52 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started 17:00:59 +Greg_Lowney 17:01:14 +Jim_Allan 17:02:34 +Jeanne 17:03:14 +Kim_Patch 17:03:58 -Jeanne 17:04:25 zakim, agenda? 17:04:25 I see 7 items remaining on the agenda: 17:04:26 2. 2.5.3 Action 500 & 545 [from jallan] 17:04:26 3. ACTION-740 toolbars (greg proposal) [from jallan] 17:04:28 4. 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9 (kelly) [from jallan] 17:04:31 5. 2.8 Toolbar configuration (Mark and Jaime) Action-747 (related to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0123.html) [from jallan] 17:04:34 6. Acton-720 Ensure disabling images gets in 2.11 (Provide control of content that may reduce accessibility) [from jallan] 17:04:37 7. ACTION-743: Look at cleaning up glossary terms "serial access, sequential navigation" and linear navigation commands [from jallan] 17:04:40 8. review changes to "What qualifies as a user agent" [from jallan] 17:04:42 +Jeanne 17:06:16 sharper has joined #ua 17:08:23 scribe: jallan 17:08:35 zakim, open item 8 17:08:35 agendum 8. "review changes to "What qualifies as a user agent"" taken up [from jallan] 17:09:27 +??P15 17:09:32 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JulSep/0049.html 17:09:35 zakim, ??P15 is sharper 17:09:35 +sharper; got it 17:12:29 These guidelines employ the following tests to determine if software 17:12:29 qualifies as a user agent. UAAG 2.0 divides potential user agents into 17:12:29 * platform-based application 17:12:29 * extension or plug-in 17:12:29 * web-based application 17:12:30 If the following three conditions are met, then it is a platform-based 17:12:32 application: 17:12:34 * It is a standalone application, and 17:12:36 * It interprets any W3C-specified language, and 17:12:38 * It provides a user interface or interprets a procedural or declarative 17:12:40 language that may be used to provide a user interface 17:14:43 sh: happy with this wording, platform-based is a good thing. 17:14:48 +1 17:15:12 gl: like the approach 17:15:51 ... definition of platform application. 17:16:36 ... host a browser inside an application. e.g. can put a browser inside Eclipse. 17:16:55 ... Eclipse is an application hosting application. 17:17:23 kp: should be changed to platform based application 17:18:10 gl: def of extension or plugin 17:18:22 kp: this was extended also 17:18:26 gl: 17:19:31 ... so the browser inside Eclipse would be a plugin or extension to Eclipse 17:20:06 gl: so an extension or plugin may not be web orientented 17:20:36 js: right, most extensions deal with UI 17:20:45 kp: this is a good thing. 17:21:27 gl: are there languages that are neither procedural or declarative? 17:23:16 sh: this was to get around things that are rendered that don't modify the DOM. e.g. a UI done in Canvas that never modifies the DOM 17:24:16 ... thinks this is still reasonable. things that masquerade like a UA, it should be a UA 17:24:52 js: thinks we are ok. but #3 has to be all three conditions. are we locking anyone out? 17:25:19 gl: is there really any difference between 1 and 3? differences seem subtle 17:25:56 ... 1 and 3a are simular 17:28:10 sh: hesitate to remove language without Jan and Markku, this has been thrashed many times. should tread lightly. 17:28:44 all happy with language change "platform based application" 17:29:34 gl: would change word. we are talking about platform web-based application. it could be confusing 17:30:04 js: this is an informative section. It should not introduce confusion. 17:31:50 zakim, close item 8 17:31:50 agendum 8, review changes to "What qualifies as a user agent", closed 17:31:51 I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 17:31:51 2. 2.5.3 Action 500 & 545 [from jallan] 17:32:05 zakim, agenda? 17:32:05 I see 6 items remaining on the agenda: 17:32:07 2. 2.5.3 Action 500 & 545 [from jallan] 17:32:07 3. ACTION-740 toolbars (greg proposal) [from jallan] 17:32:07 4. 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9 (kelly) [from jallan] 17:32:07 5. 2.8 Toolbar configuration (Mark and Jaime) Action-747 (related to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0123.html) [from jallan] 17:32:08 6. Acton-720 Ensure disabling images gets in 2.11 (Provide control of content that may reduce accessibility) [from jallan] 17:32:11 7. ACTION-743: Look at cleaning up glossary terms "serial access, sequential navigation" and linear navigation commands [from jallan] 17:32:39 Resolution: Postpone discussion of User Agent tests until next week when Jan and Mark are presesnt 17:32:54 zakim, open item 2 17:32:54 agendum 2. "2.5.3 Action 500 & 545" taken up [from jallan] 17:32:57 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JulSep/0045.html 17:35:21 kp: =1 17:35:28 sh: +1 17:35:59 Resolution: add new 2.5.3 from http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JulSep/0045.html to the document. 17:36:16 zakim: close item 2 17:36:45 topic: decentralized extensibility 17:37:48 sh: was proposed html5. that anyone could create a new tag. 17:37:49 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JulSep/0044.html 17:38:02 ja: thought it was removed from html5 17:42:10 in section 2.2.3 in hTML5 http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/infrastructure.html#extensibility 17:43:33 js: need to make sure that this will stay in the document. there is a WAI-HTML5 A11Y taskforce working on this. 17:45:26 action: jallan to ping wai-a11y-html5 taskforce about extensibility of html5 and css and otherstuff 17:45:26 Created ACTION-756 - Ping wai-a11y-html5 taskforce about extensibility of html5 and css and otherstuff [on Jim Allan - due 2012-08-30]. 17:45:56 zakim: agenda? 17:46:14 agenda? 17:46:19 zakim, agenda? 17:46:23 I see 6 items remaining on the agenda: 17:46:25 2. 2.5.3 Action 500 & 545 [from jallan] 17:46:27 3. ACTION-740 toolbars (greg proposal) [from jallan] 17:46:29 4. 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9 (kelly) [from jallan] 17:46:31 5. 2.8 Toolbar configuration (Mark and Jaime) Action-747 (related to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0123.html) [from jallan] 17:46:35 6. Acton-720 Ensure disabling images gets in 2.11 (Provide control of content that may reduce accessibility) [from jallan] 17:46:37 7. ACTION-743: Look at cleaning up glossary terms "serial access, sequential navigation" and linear navigation commands [from jallan] 17:47:01 close item-2 17:47:06 zakim, close item 2 17:47:06 agendum 2, 2.5.3 Action 500 & 545, closed 17:47:06 agenda? 17:47:07 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 17:47:07 3. ACTION-740 toolbars (greg proposal) [from jallan] 17:47:48 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JulSep/0050.html 17:48:04 zakim, open item 7 17:48:04 agendum 7. "ACTION-743: Look at cleaning up glossary terms "serial access, sequential navigation" and linear navigation commands" taken up [from jallan] 17:48:36 http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JulSep/0050.html 17:50:23 kp: there is nothing that clashes. 17:50:55 js: adding Modality Independence Principle as a related resource to keyboard command, it was already part of keyboard 17:56:28 close item 7 17:57:43 agenda? 17:58:00 open item 4 17:58:27 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2012/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20120816/ 18:01:13 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/2012/ED-IMPLEMENTING-UAAG20-20120731/#gl-keyboard-access 18:05:04 add to lauara ... She also use the user agent's preferences/options to redefine its keyboard shortcuts in the same way. 18:13:46 close action-750 18:13:46 ACTION-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9 closed 18:14:09 close item 4 18:14:29 open item 6 18:18:46 change 2.11.1 user can have all recognized foreground and background images shown or hidden 18:19:23 gl: user should have independent control of each 18:20:28 2.11.A Foreground Image Toggle: The user can have all recognized foreground images shown or hidden. (Level A) 18:27:35 discussion of images, alt, 1.1 and 2.11 18:28:31 from 6/21: [10:59] Greg Benefits of being able to turn off images include but are not limited to: (a) helping users avoid distraction; (b) increasing the amount of information that can be displayed at one time, including for people who do not make use of the images due to visual impairments, people who want to reduce the amount of scrolling, people who need to keep information on the screen... 18:28:32 ...due to short-term memory...[10:59] Greg ...issues; (c) avoiding pain caused by high visual contrast; etc. 18:29:54 gl: wants ability to turn off images, replace with alternative content, or a place holder. 18:33:40 js: decentralized extensability is a dead issue in HTML5 18:34:04 sh: do we take into account microformats and other extensions? 18:34:39 js: what would we have to do with microformat...they are machine readable...not intended for humans. 18:35:05 sh: vcard creates human readable content, google example 18:35:39 ... the semantics in the format are presentational and the UA know how to render them 18:36:11 ... there is lots of information on the a11y of microformats. 18:37:23 gl: sounds like there are a11y issues. 18:37:40 Microformat - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia 18:37:42 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microformat 18:37:43 Although the content of web pages is technically already capable of "automated processing", and has been since the inception of the web, such processing is difficult because the traditional markup tags used to display information on the web do not describe what the information means.[2] Microformats can bridge this gap by attaching semantics, and thereby obviate other, more complicated,... 18:37:45 ...methods of automated processing, such as natural language processing or screen scraping. 18:37:56 sh: will look into it further, to see if semantics can be related to a11y. 18:38:46 rrsagent, make minutes 18:38:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/23-ua-minutes.html jallan 18:38:53 -sharper 18:38:57 -Kim_Patch 18:38:59 -Greg_Lowney 18:39:12 ZAKIM, WHO IS HERE? 18:39:12 On the phone I see Jim_Allan, Jeanne 18:39:13 On IRC I see Greg, Zakim, RRSAgent, jallan, jeanne, KimPatch, trackbot 18:41:14 -Jim_Allan 18:41:24 -Jeanne 18:41:25 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has ended 18:41:25 Attendees were Greg_Lowney, Jim_Allan, Jeanne, Kim_Patch, sharper 18:41:39 zakim, please part 18:41:39 Zakim has left #ua 18:41:54 rrsagent, make minutes 18:41:54 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/23-ua-minutes.html jallan 18:42:19 rrsagent, please part 18:42:19 I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/23-ua-actions.rdf : 18:42:19 ACTION: jallan to ping wai-a11y-html5 taskforce about extensibility of html5 and css and otherstuff [1] 18:42:19 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/23-ua-irc#T17-45-26