IRC log of html-media on 2012-08-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:43:30 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/21-html-media-irc
14:43:32 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs 185
14:43:32 [Zakim]
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14:43:34 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 63342
14:43:34 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 17 minutes
14:43:35 [trackbot]
Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
14:43:35 [trackbot]
Date: 21 August 2012
14:44:18 [adrianba]
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14:44:41 [matt]
zakim, ping me in 15
14:44:41 [Zakim]
ok, matt
14:45:40 [matt]
Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Aug/0034.html
14:46:00 [matt]
Chair: Adrian
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14:57:53 [matt]
zakim, dial matt-voip
14:57:54 [Zakim]
ok, matt; the call is being made
14:57:54 [Zakim]
HTML_WG()11:00AM has now started
14:57:57 [Zakim]
+Matt
14:58:01 [matt]
zakim, mute me
14:58:02 [Zakim]
sorry, matt, muting is not permitted when only one person is present
14:59:12 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
14:59:20 [adrianba]
zakim, [Microsoft] is me
14:59:20 [Zakim]
+adrianba; got it
14:59:42 [Zakim]
matt, you asked to be pinged at this time
14:59:42 [ddorwin]
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14:59:57 [Zakim]
+ +1.425.202.aaaa
15:00:10 [ddorwin]
Zakim, aaaa is me
15:00:10 [Zakim]
+ddorwin; got it
15:00:14 [bwatts]
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15:00:51 [matt]
zakim, mute me
15:00:51 [Zakim]
Matt should now be muted
15:00:55 [matt]
rrsagent, make logs public
15:00:58 [Suzie]
Suzie has joined #html-media
15:01:04 [acolwell]
acolwell has joined #html-media
15:01:14 [Zakim]
+acolwell
15:01:25 [Zakim]
+ +1.818.560.aabb
15:01:28 [Zakim]
+ +1.206.861.aacc
15:01:49 [adrianba]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:49 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Matt (muted), adrianba, ddorwin, acolwell, +1.818.560.aabb, +1.206.861.aacc
15:01:52 [Zakim]
+ +1.408.536.aadd
15:01:58 [bwatts]
zakim, aacc is bwatts
15:01:58 [Zakim]
+bwatts; got it
15:02:17 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
15:02:31 [Zakim]
+ +1.613.491.aaee
15:02:43 [MartinSoukup]
MartinSoukup has joined #html-media
15:02:53 [Suzie]
zakim, +1.818.560.3007 is me
15:02:53 [Zakim]
sorry, Suzie, I do not recognize a party named '+1.818.560.3007'
15:03:05 [matt]
zakim, 3007 is Suzie
15:03:05 [Zakim]
sorry, matt, I do not recognize a party named '3007'
15:03:11 [adrianba]
zakim, aabb is Suzie
15:03:11 [Zakim]
+Suzie; got it
15:04:03 [Johnsim]
Johnsim has joined #html-media
15:04:26 [joesteele]
joesteele has joined #html-media
15:04:45 [adrianba]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:04:45 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Matt (muted), adrianba, ddorwin, acolwell, Suzie, bwatts, +1.408.536.aadd, [Microsoft], +1.613.491.aaee
15:05:19 [Clarke]
Clarke has joined #html-media
15:05:55 [Johnsim]
zakim, [Microsoft] is me
15:05:55 [Zakim]
+Johnsim; got it
15:05:59 [adrianba]
ScribeNick: johnsim
15:05:59 [MartinSoukup]
zakim, aaee is MartinSoukup
15:05:59 [Zakim]
+MartinSoukup; got it
15:06:09 [Zakim]
+Clarke
15:06:16 [adrianba]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:06:16 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Matt (muted), adrianba, ddorwin, acolwell, Suzie, bwatts, +1.408.536.aadd, Johnsim, MartinSoukup, Clarke
15:06:47 [Zakim]
+ +44.303.040.aaff
15:06:57 [duncanr]
duncanr has joined #html-media
15:06:59 [joesteele]
Zakim, aadd is joesteele
15:06:59 [Zakim]
+joesteele; got it
15:07:09 [adrianba]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:07:09 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Matt (muted), adrianba, ddorwin, acolwell, Suzie, bwatts, joesteele, Johnsim, MartinSoukup, Clarke, +44.303.040.aaff
15:07:25 [adrianba]
zakim, aaff is duncanr
15:07:25 [Zakim]
+duncanr; got it
15:07:30 [adrianba]
zakim, who is on the phone?
15:07:30 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Matt (muted), adrianba, ddorwin, acolwell, Suzie, bwatts, joesteele, Johnsim, MartinSoukup, Clarke, duncanr
15:07:59 [adrianba]
TOPIC: Roll call, introductions and selection of scribe
15:08:07 [Johnsim]
completed
15:08:23 [Johnsim]
TOPIC: previous meeting minutes
15:08:54 [Johnsim]
No comments on minutes - completed
15:09:03 [Johnsim]
TOPIC: Review of action items
15:09:41 [Johnsim]
Three overdue action items which are further down in the agenda -
15:10:19 [Johnsim]
TOPIC: base line document
15:10:31 [whitech]
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15:10:44 [Johnsim]
Baseline documents and Bugzilla information
15:11:22 [Johnsim]
David: as far as i know it is complete (EME), but since no review, marked as work as progress. and clear key
15:11:35 [Johnsim]
does not work at all until we complete action item
15:11:52 [Johnsim]
and to provide link to old draft to prevent confusion
15:12:25 [adrianba]
ACTION-1?
15:12:25 [trackbot]
ACTION-1 -- David Dorwin to and editors to implement proposal 2b by revising EME specification -- due 2012-08-17 -- CLOSED
15:12:25 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/1
15:12:30 [Johnsim]
TOPIC: Action from the previous meeting
15:12:51 [Johnsim]
Adrian: this is complete and awaiting review
15:13:07 [adrianba]
ACTION-2?
15:13:07 [trackbot]
ACTION-2 -- Mark Watson to propose a resolution to bug 17673 -- due 2012-08-17 -- OPEN
15:13:07 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/2
15:13:25 [adrianba]
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17673
15:13:41 [ddorwin]
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15:13:53 [Zakim]
+ +1.215.286.aagg
15:13:59 [Johnsim]
Adrian: this is about how to update the spec to support --- to describe how init data will work for ISOBFF
15:14:32 [Johnsim]
Mark is not on the call today because he is traveling. We have had several discussions about this bug, and we wanted to sort this out and resolve before resolving clear key, which is the next action
15:14:59 [Johnsim]
I updated this bug and assigned to Johnsim who has been putting together the proposal text for this bug and the clear key which is the next action
15:15:28 [adrianba]
johnsim: there are two different sources of initdata in general, maybe 3 if you slice it finer
15:15:36 [adrianba]
... the media and the app
15:15:56 [adrianba]
... for example MPD might contain initdata for one key system
15:16:27 [Mark_Vickers]
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15:16:30 [adrianba]
... also in ISO BMFF there is a PSSH box which contains initdata for different key systems
15:16:38 [adrianba]
... especially if common encryption is used
15:16:48 [adrianba]
... so you can have multiple from both places
15:17:08 [adrianba]
... the initdata from the needkey may need to be combined with the initdata from the app
15:17:15 [adrianba]
... we have several ideas about how to do that
15:17:53 [adrianba]
... the other factor to be taken into consideration is if common encryption is being used which may have several initdata blocks that you may want to replace
15:18:08 [adrianba]
... for example you may want to replace the location of the key (discussed in MPEG DASH)
15:18:20 [adrianba]
... these are some of the scenarios that need to be accommodated
15:18:58 [adrianba]
joesteele: you're saying the app could modify the initdata?
15:19:24 [adrianba]
johnsim: let's say the needkey includes some initdata but the app knows it doesn't want to use that data for one system
15:19:30 [adrianba]
... but wants to replace it
15:19:55 [adrianba]
... our thinking is that you should be able to provide the app specific data prepended to indicate that this is the preferred data for this acquisition
15:20:19 [adrianba]
... we know the scenario occurs, not sure if this is the right solution
15:21:52 [adrianba]
ddorwin: why prepend rather than just including that?
15:22:33 [adrianba]
johnsim: that's one idea - this is how to say one PSSH box should be used and not another without having to crack open the initdata
15:23:55 [adrianba]
... it's possible to parse through the data but we'd prefer not to do that
15:24:34 [Johnsim]
adrian: you get a needkey event, because the media contains multiple pssh, passes the concatenated pssh boxes as the init data
15:24:49 [Johnsim]
meanwhile the app sees some init data used by one of the key systems
15:25:02 [Zakim]
+markw
15:25:28 [Johnsim]
without parsing through each system id it is, you can use the app provided one prepended, so that you could prioritize the app one over the media data or the other way around.
15:26:12 [Zakim]
+ +1.760.533.aahh
15:27:21 [adrianba]
action-2 due in 1 week
15:27:21 [trackbot]
ACTION-2 Propose a resolution to bug 17673 due date now in 1 week
15:27:46 [pladd]
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15:28:31 [adrianba]
ACTION-3?
15:28:31 [trackbot]
ACTION-3 -- Adrian Bateman to propose resolution to bug 17682 -- due 2012-08-17 -- OPEN
15:28:31 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/3
15:28:32 [Johnsim]
Clarify scenarios where you need to replace entire init data and when you need to update a subset of the init data
15:28:45 [adrianba]
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17682
15:29:23 [Johnsim]
Adrian: clarifying the Clear Key, how Keys and Key IDs are associated
15:29:25 [MikeSmith_]
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15:29:55 [Johnsim]
David: original 0.1 had an add key parameter, and a key id parameter
15:30:07 [Johnsim]
init data parameter was redundent with key request
15:30:25 [Johnsim]
removed init data paramters but now there is no pair of parameters for key id and key in clear key
15:30:37 [Johnsim]
we need mappings from key id to key
15:30:50 [Johnsim]
Joe Steele: what is the parameter
15:30:59 [Johnsim]
David: just key, which could be a license
15:31:40 [Johnsim]
Adrian: why wold this be, create session wit the init data, with the resulting session object, and pass in the key, two consequtive calls rather than one
15:32:38 [Johnsim]
Adrian: you call "createsession" on the media keys object, and that gives you a media key session object, when you call you pass in the init data
15:33:21 [Johnsim]
when you get the media key session, you call add key and you pass in the key in the same way, but that restricts clear key to one key per session, which is different form other systems
15:34:51 [adrianba]
johnsim: in key rotation, would that be one session or multiple sessions?
15:35:19 [Johnsim]
David: one key for ten minutes, i think that should be separate sessions, playing something for a day, don't want 500 keys sitting around
15:37:40 [Johnsim]
David: each time you wanted a key, that would be a new session, and then you would destroy the old one at some point.
15:39:06 [Johnsim]
David: need clarity on key rotation scenarios and make sure we support them .... it would be nice if the more common key rotation scenarios are supported by clear key
15:40:12 [Johnsim]
adrian: single key per session, second, we need to examine scenario where multiple keys are need (e.g. key rotation), if common need to work for single session
15:40:43 [Johnsim]
joesteele: multiple keys - one for audio and video - a non-rotation issue we have with clear key
15:41:10 [Johnsim]
markw: adaptive bitrates using different keys is another scenario.
15:42:34 [Johnsim]
adrian: the question are those a single session or multiple session when we look at the media key object, session id, single key negotiation withthe license server.
15:44:12 [Johnsim]
Adrian: diff keys audio/video, diff keys based on bitrates, multiple needkey events, and each would be a separate session,
15:45:53 [Johnsim]
Mark: anything is possible, CDM can match keys with lienses, keys needed for media, whether a new session is needed, we haven't you need a separate session for each key
15:47:29 [Zakim]
+ +1.858.485.aaii
15:47:34 [Johnsim]
Adrian: the current model assumes a single init data corressponds to a single session
15:47:49 [Johnsim]
there is no way to add more init data to a session
15:48:35 [Johnsim]
mark: it think that is okay. audio and video file with init data, application doesn't know if those init data contain information - might know how the content provider created the content
15:49:03 [Zakim]
- +1.215.286.aagg
15:50:01 [Johnsim]
Adrian: propose text change for Clear Key case for single key per session, and maybe we can have more discussion whether that is sufficient once we have synced everyting back into the spec and we can review it
15:50:14 [adrianba]
ACTION-3 due in 1 week
15:50:14 [trackbot]
ACTION-3 Propose resolution to bug 17682 due date now in 1 week
15:50:15 [Johnsim]
Adrian: extending this action for a week as well
15:50:22 [adrianba]
ACTION-4?
15:50:22 [trackbot]
ACTION-4 -- David Dorwin to propose a solution for bug 17672 -- due 2012-08-17 -- OPEN
15:50:22 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/4
15:50:32 [adrianba]
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17672
15:51:14 [Johnsim]
David: webm version of the ISO action #2. I have not made any progress on the text, though it is coming together (WebM for encryption). Request two weeks
15:51:15 [adrianba]
ACTION-4 due in 2 weeks
15:51:15 [trackbot]
ACTION-4 Propose a solution for bug 17672 due date now in 2 weeks
15:51:40 [Johnsim]
TOPIC: Key Release
15:51:51 [adrianba]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0070.html
15:52:10 [Johnsim]
Adrian: last meeting, mentioned need for more discussion, David sent this mail and Mark responded, so question is
15:52:37 [Johnsim]
Adrian: what state is the spec compared to these two emails? do we currently describe what is mentioned in the two emails or work needed on the spec
15:53:14 [Johnsim]
David: the spec has not been updated per the emails and object oriented design has big impact. Removed all but the introductory text because incompatible, so we need to go back and fill that in
15:53:36 [Johnsim]
David: Still some more decisions to be made first
15:54:02 [Johnsim]
Adrian: is this something we should push for the agenda on the next meeting and have some discussion ahead of that?
15:54:25 [Johnsim]
Mark: i think so, now that we have the object oriented updates, some ideas in the email thread, but we need to work through that
15:54:39 [Johnsim]
Adrian: could you follow-up on your previous mail and suggest changes ?
15:55:19 [adrianba]
ACTION: mark to follow-up on Key Release mail thread now that the OO changes have been made - discuss on next call
15:55:20 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-5 - Follow-up on Key Release mail thread now that the OO changes have been made - discuss on next call [on Mark Watson - due 2012-08-28].
15:56:39 [Johnsim]
TOPIC: Encrypted media Extensions bugs
15:57:15 [Johnsim]
Adrian: given the discussion on this call we still have some work to do for things on the top of the list, make sense for editors to get together in advance of the next call and triage the bugs
15:57:35 [Johnsim]
Adrian: make sure they are still valid, maybe some can be closed, maybe some are simple and we can just action them.
15:57:52 [Johnsim]
Adrian: we will try to follow-up on that before the next meeting
15:58:09 [Johnsim]
TOPIC: any other business
15:58:35 [Johnsim]
Joe Steele: understanding, every other week?
15:58:45 [matt]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:58:45 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/21-html-media-minutes.html matt
15:58:56 [matt]
rrsagent, make logs public
15:59:01 [Johnsim]
Adrian: alternating between EME and MSE - trying to keep as predictable as possible.
15:59:24 [matt]
zakim, unmute me
15:59:24 [Zakim]
Matt should no longer be muted
15:59:37 [Zakim]
- +1.760.533.aahh
15:59:52 [Johnsim]
Adrian: Chair and scribe for next meeting - Paul back - who will volunteer for scribe?
16:00:05 [Johnsim]
Joe Steele: will scribe next meeting
16:00:20 [Johnsim]
TOPIC: Adjourn
16:00:21 [matt]
zakim, drop me
16:00:21 [Zakim]
Matt is being disconnected
16:00:23 [Zakim]
-Matt
16:00:25 [Zakim]
- +1.858.485.aaii
16:00:27 [Zakim]
-joesteele
16:00:28 [Zakim]
-adrianba
16:00:28 [Zakim]
-markw
16:00:29 [duncanr]
duncanr has left #html-media
16:00:30 [Zakim]
-Suzie
16:00:30 [Zakim]
-Clarke
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-acolwell
16:00:32 [Zakim]
-MartinSoukup
16:00:33 [ddorwin]
ddorwin has left #html-media
16:00:34 [Zakim]
-duncanr
16:00:34 [Zakim]
-Johnsim
16:00:37 [Zakim]
-bwatts
16:00:53 [Zakim]
-ddorwin
16:00:54 [Zakim]
HTML_WG()11:00AM has ended
16:00:54 [Zakim]
Attendees were Matt, adrianba, +1.425.202.aaaa, ddorwin, acolwell, +1.818.560.aabb, +1.206.861.aacc, +1.408.536.aadd, bwatts, +1.613.491.aaee, Suzie, Johnsim, MartinSoukup, Clarke,
16:00:54 [Zakim]
... +44.303.040.aaff, joesteele, duncanr, +1.215.286.aagg, markw, +1.760.533.aahh, +1.858.485.aaii
16:01:07 [adrianba]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:01:07 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/21-html-media-minutes.html adrianba
16:02:27 [adrianba]
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