14:55:08 RRSAgent has joined #ua 14:55:08 logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-ua-irc 14:55:10 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:55:10 Zakim has joined #ua 14:55:12 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 14:55:12 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 14:55:13 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 14:55:13 Date: 16 August 2012 16:41:40 kford has joined #ua 16:42:04 trackbot, start meeting 16:42:07 RRSAgent, make logs public 16:42:09 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 16:42:09 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 18 minutes 16:42:10 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 16:42:10 Date: 16 August 2012 16:49:29 agenda+ Review any proposals sent to list 16:49:31 Agenda+ 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9 16:49:32 Agenda+ 1.1.5 - Need IER 16:49:34 Agenda+ 2.8 Toolbar configuration (Mark and Jaime) Action-747 (related to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0123.html) 16:49:35 Agenda+ What’s left to do 16:50:00 Regrets: Jim 16:50:15 Chair: Kelly Ford, Jim Allan 16:50:21 rrsagent, make minutes 16:50:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-ua-minutes.html kford 16:57:03 Greg has joined #ua 16:57:52 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started 16:57:59 +[Microsoft] 16:58:15 zakim, microsoft is kfoooooooooooooooooor 16:58:15 +kfoooooooooooooooooor; got it 16:58:43 zakim, microsoft is kford 16:58:43 sorry, kford, I do not recognize a party named 'microsoft' 16:58:54 jeanne has joined #ua 16:59:29 zakim, kfoooooooooooooooooor is kford 16:59:29 +kford; got it 17:01:53 +Greg_Lowney 17:02:50 Jan has joined #ua 17:03:17 zakim, code? 17:03:17 the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan 17:03:26 +??P7 17:03:30 +Jeanne 17:03:45 zakim, ??P7 is really Jan 17:03:45 +Jan; got it 17:09:12 +Kim_Patch 17:09:59 zakim, agenda? 17:09:59 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda: 17:10:01 1. Review any proposals sent to list [from kford] 17:10:01 2. 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9 [from kford] 17:10:01 3. 1.1.5 - Need IER [from kford] 17:10:01 4. 2.8 Toolbar configuration (Mark and Jaime) Action-747 (related to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0123.html) [from kford] 17:10:02 5. What’s left to do [from kford] 17:10:28 agenda+ Next Publication 17:10:42 zakim, take up item 6 17:10:42 agendum 6. "Next Publication" taken up [from kford] 17:11:02 sharper has joined #ua 17:11:39 KimPatch has joined #ua 17:12:25 Kelly: published another editor's draft earlier this week, discussion on putting out another working draft -- any objections 17:12:39 Resolved: Group agrees to publish another working draft. 17:12:59 zakim, close item 6 17:12:59 agendum 6, Next Publication, closed 17:13:00 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 17:13:00 1. Review any proposals sent to list [from kford] 17:13:11 zakim, take up item 1 17:13:11 agendum 1. "Review any proposals sent to list" taken up [from kford] 17:13:36 No new proposals. 17:13:42 zakim, close item 1 17:13:42 agendum 1, Review any proposals sent to list, closed 17:13:43 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 17:13:43 2. 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9 [from kford] 17:14:10 zakim, take up item 3 17:14:10 agendum 3. "1.1.5 - Need IER" taken up [from kford] 17:14:23 agenda+ HTML Media Capture 17:14:26 zakim, code? 17:14:26 the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), sharper 17:14:42 +??P10 17:15:03 zakim, ??P10 is sharper 17:15:03 +sharper; got it 17:15:45 Kelly: why don't we spend a couple minutes working on it 17:16:45 Greg: resize and reposition -- it's primarily about people with visual impairments, correct? people affected would be people who might need to change the text to make it easier to read, reduce the amount of distance between the video and the alternative in order to avoid having to shift gaze too much 17:16:46 kford_ has joined #ua 17:17:34 Jan: it's primarily for people with low vision who simply needs those things to be bigger in situations where the built-in magnifications can't handle it 17:17:43 Greg: also repositioning 17:18:05 Jeanne: if you have to resize the video 17:18:46 Jeanne: I think we had to do above below left right to not cover the video 17:19:07 Jeanne: some people just want larger captions, but once you get larger and larger you cover up more of the video space 17:20:13 The intent of this success criterion is to allow users to adjust the size of captions, sign language, and other visual alternatives so they are large enough to be a comfortable reading size, and in most cases to allow them to do so without obscuring the primary media. 17:20:43 The intent of this success criterion is to allow users to adjust the size of captions, sign language, and other visual alternatives so they are large enough to be a comfortable reading size, without obscuring the primary media. 17:21:37 Jan: we should have something in that addresses the distance to gaze -- if text of the top you want the captions near the top so they can be closer together 17:22:43 Jan: the intent of the B condition. People need flexibility to position the captions in different places because the information content in the video can be in different places -- can be waiting at the top or the bottom and usually you are going to want the captions position to limit the amount of gaze back and forth 17:23:13 Greg: if the video were at the top of the window and the captions way down at the status bar that would be suboptimal you want the text in close proximity 17:24:04 Jan: they need to be above, below to the right to the last overlapping because videos differ, and you're trying to watch the video and see the captions that are conveying the audio material, but you don't want to miss the visual material. So if the video you're watching has a lot of on-screen text and it appears at the top of the screen -- want the captions at the top of the screen to see... 17:24:05 ...you can read both equally, same with the bottom so once again they are close together 17:24:25 Users may reposition the alternative so they can be placed in close proximity to the most important portion of the main media, to make it easier to watch both at the same time. 17:24:31 Kelly: but if we say it's also the intent of this success criteria to allow users to configure video and alternative displays for the easiest readability possible 17:25:20 The intent of the repositioning requirement is for users to have the flexibility to place captions in various posityions depending on the visual content of the video window... 17:26:12 AllanJ has joined #ua 17:26:17 For example if the video frequently includes on-screen text near the top of the video then the captions will be easier to read if they are located above the video. 17:27:32 Jan: I like Greg's for the first line in my example on the end of it 17:27:54 Greg: then we can repeat the example as a real example 17:28:02 Users may reposition the alternative so they can be placed in close proximity to the most important portion of the main media, to make it easier to watch both at the same time. For example if the video frequently includes on-screen text near the top of the video then the captions will be easier to read if they are located above the video. 17:31:43 +Jim_Allan 17:31:44 Depending on what he's watching, Maximilian will adjust the position of his captions. When he's watching a sporting even with a dashboard displaying statistics at the top, he positions the captions immediately above the top so the captions are close to the statistics. 17:32:45 Maximilian will adjust the position of his captions depending on what he's watching. When watching a sporting event with a dashboard displaying statistics at the top, he positions the captions immediately above the top so the captions are close to the statistics. 17:33:55 However, when he watches a movie, he typically positions the captions so that they overlap the video frame near the bottom. 17:33:56 When he's watching financial news with a stock ticker along the bottom, he moves the captions to be immediately below the ticker. 17:34:26 Jeanne: maybe we can use Jim as an example 17:34:28 changing the orientation of a video, where you are watching it on an iphone 17:38:16 When Tom is watching narrow-aspect video on a wides-aspect screen, he moves the window displaying sign language interpretation to the side, allowing the primary video to take up the entire height of the screen without the interpretation getting in the way. 17:39:56 Jim: I tested on Netflix -- doesn't have the option of putting them on the side, even when I went to the portrait view the video narrowed, the captions remain at the bottom 17:40:37 Greg: including something about rotating the display on a mobile device would make sense 17:40:46 Jim: do we want the browsers to do that or the hardware 17:41:04 Greg: we want the browsers to allow the users to move it regardless of any automatic -- you don't want to guess wrong as to what the user wants 17:41:22 Jeanne: particularly users with limited mobility who may be only able to hold the tablet with one hand 17:43:29 Raymond only had one hand, so he positions thec captions so that they're not covered by the hand he's using to hold his tablet. 17:43:34 (Thanks, Jeanne) 17:43:57 s/had/has/ 17:44:03 regrets- Jim 17:44:17 rrsagent, make minutes 17:44:17 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-ua-minutes.html kford 17:44:19 Raymond only has one hand, so he positions captions so they're not covered by the hand he's using to hold his tablet. 17:45:04 q+ to ask what should the term be when there are no related resources. 17:45:11 Greg: any other examples alternate media 17:46:28 Present: Jim, Greg, Kelly, Jeanne, Kim, Simon, Jeanne 17:46:31 Discussion about what to use to indicate there are no resources at this point 17:46:59 zakim, agenda? 17:46:59 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda: 17:47:01 2. 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9 [from kford] 17:47:01 3. 1.1.5 - Need IER [from kford] 17:47:01 4. 2.8 Toolbar configuration (Mark and Jaime) Action-747 (related to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0123.html) [from kford] 17:47:01 5. What’s left to do [from kford] 17:47:02 7. HTML Media Capture [from jeanne] 17:47:09 Decided to use NA 17:47:23 zakim, close item 3 17:47:23 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, kford 17:47:25 action: jeanne to replace To be written in Related Resources to N/A 17:47:25 Created ACTION-755 - Replace To be written in Related Resources to N/A [on Jeanne F Spellman - due 2012-08-23]. 17:47:29 ack jea 17:47:29 jeanne, you wanted to ask what should the term be when there are no related resources. 17:47:40 zakim, close item 3 17:47:40 agendum 3, 1.1.5 - Need IER, closed 17:47:41 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 17:47:41 2. 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9 [from kford] 17:48:06 zakim, take up item 7 17:48:06 agendum 7. "HTML Media Capture" taken up [from jeanne] 17:48:32 http://www.w3.org/TR/2012/WD-html-media-capture-20120712/ 17:48:50 PF comments -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/wai-liaison/2012Aug/0003.html 17:49:37 Jeanne: e-mail accessibility from the user point of view could be an issue. If people could take a look at sometime this week we can pull them together and take a look in more detail next week 17:49:58 s/e-mail accessibility/accessibility 17:50:21 zakim, close this item 17:50:21 agendum 7 closed 17:50:22 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 17:50:22 2. 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9 [from kford] 17:51:15 zakim, close item 7 17:51:15 agendum 7, HTML Media Capture, closed 17:51:16 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 17:51:16 2. 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9 [from kford] 17:51:33 zakim, take up item 4 17:51:33 agendum 4. "2.8 Toolbar configuration (Mark and Jaime) Action-747 (related to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0123.html)" taken up [from kford] 17:52:01 kford will send mail on this one. 17:52:11 zakim, close item 4\ 17:52:11 I don't understand 'close item 4\', kford 17:52:16 zakim, close item 4 17:52:16 agendum 4, 2.8 Toolbar configuration (Mark and Jaime) Action-747 (related to http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012AprJun/0123.html), closed 17:52:20 I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 17:52:20 2. 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9 [from kford] 17:52:29 zakim, take up item 2 17:52:29 agendum 2. "2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9" taken up [from kford] 17:52:45 This is on me, not quite done, should be sending to the list shortly. 17:52:56 zakim, close item 2 17:52:56 agendum 2, 2.3.5 Action-750 Look at IER from 2.3.5 and 2.1.9 and ensure the new 2.3.5 covers what was important from the now deleted 2.1.9, closed 17:52:58 I see 1 item remaining on the agenda: 17:52:58 5. What’s left to do [from kford] 17:53:09 zakim, take up item 5 17:53:09 agendum 5. "What’s left to do" taken up [from kford] 17:54:07 the July 31 email -> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2012JulSep/0032.html 17:54:13 Jeanne will send updated list to the list when she has addressed work from last week. 17:55:21 Jeanne: location in hierarchy and configuring elements for structural navigation -- had discussion but wanted to wait for Simon before we finished it action items 500, 545 and issue 87 17:57:48 Simon: reading it... was Greg going to do something on this 17:58:50 -Jim_Allan 17:58:57 Simon: if we want to go on I can piece this together 17:59:33 Jeanne: only thing left on the list is the big issue of global conformance. Other people who have opinions on that -- need to get some background before we start on that 18:00:03 zakim, close item 5 18:00:03 agendum 5, What’s left to do, closed 18:00:05 I see nothing remaining on the agenda 18:00:39 +Jim_Allan 18:00:45 Kelly: next steps, publishing working draft, Simon, others sent to list 18:01:50 -kford 18:01:52 -Jan 18:01:59 rrsagent, make minutes 18:01:59 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-ua-minutes.html kford 18:04:13 Present+Jan 18:04:20 rrsagent, make minutes 18:04:20 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-ua-minutes.html kford 18:05:00 Present-Jeanne 18:05:08 rrsagent, make minutes 18:05:08 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-ua-minutes.html kford 18:05:28 clos4 qction-733 18:05:47 present+ Jeanne 18:05:49 close action-733 18:05:53 rrsagent, make minutes 18:05:53 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-ua-minutes.html kford 18:07:05 zakim, please part 18:07:05 leaving. As of this point the attendees were kford, Greg_Lowney, Jeanne, Jan, Kim_Patch, sharper, Jim_Allan 18:07:05 Zakim has left #ua 18:07:10 rrsagent, please part 18:07:10 I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-ua-actions.rdf : 18:07:10 ACTION: jeanne to replace To be written in Related Resources to N/A [1] 18:07:10 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/08/16-ua-irc#T17-47-25