14:58:33 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
14:58:33 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-html-a11y-irc
14:58:35 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:58:37 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
14:58:37 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 58 minutes ago
14:58:38 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:58:38 <trackbot> Date: 26 July 2012
14:58:44 <janina> zakim, who's here?
14:58:44 <Zakim> I notice WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has restarted
14:58:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
14:58:45 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, janina, davidb, MichaelC, MikeSmith, Zakim, [tm], trackbot
14:59:02 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:59:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
14:59:51 <janina> zakim, this will be 2119
14:59:51 <Zakim> ok, janina; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 59 minutes ago
15:00:04 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:00:05 <Zakim> I notice WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has restarted
15:00:09 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
15:00:16 <paulc> paulc has joined #html-a11y
15:00:18 <MichaelC> zakim, this is 2119
15:00:24 <Zakim> MichaelC, this was already WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM
15:00:26 <Zakim> ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM
15:00:47 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:00:47 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
15:00:58 <MichaelC> zakim, this is 2119
15:00:58 <Zakim> MichaelC, this was already WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM
15:00:59 <Zakim> ok, MichaelC; that matches WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM
15:01:05 <MichaelC> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:01:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
15:01:15 <JF> JF has joined #html-a11y
15:01:33 <MichaelC> present: Michael_Cooper, Janina_Sajka, John_Foliot
15:04:32 <paulc> Having trouble joining by phone.
15:05:17 <paulc> Looks like I need to reboot.  Will join in 5+ mins.
15:05:37 <Judy> Judy has joined #html-a11y
15:05:56 <Judy> agenda?
15:06:00 <janina> Meeting: HTML-A11Y Task Force Teleconference
15:06:00 <janina> Chair: Janina_Sajka
15:06:00 <janina> agenda+ Issue-206 Status
15:06:00 <janina> agenda+ Issue-205 Status
15:06:00 <janina> agenda+ Issue-204 Status
15:06:02 <janina> agenda+ Issue-201 Status
15:06:04 <MichaelC> present+ Judy_Brewer
15:06:05 <janina> agenda+ Issue-194 Status
15:06:07 <janina> agenda+ Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; Text; ARIA Mappings
15:06:10 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
15:06:12 <janina> agenda+ Actions Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
15:06:15 <janina> agenda+ Identify Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
15:06:18 <janina> agenda+ be done
15:06:30 <Judy> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:06:33 <richardschwerdtfe> richardschwerdtfe has joined #html-a11y
15:06:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
15:06:55 <MichaelC> present+ Léonie_Watson
15:08:02 <MichaelC> present+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger
15:08:34 <janina>  agenda?
15:09:07 <MichaelC> drop item 4
15:09:09 <MichaelC> drop item 5
15:09:10 <Judy> Zakim, take up item 8
15:09:10 <Zakim> agendum 8. "Issue-206 Status" taken up [from janina]
15:09:11 <MichaelC> drop item 7
15:09:52 <Judy> JS: Call for counter-proposals on 206 closes tomorrow. Some work in WHATWG on this, from Ted. 
15:10:25 <Judy> JB: apparently changed it to a "may" provision
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15:10:51 <MichaelC> present+ Paul_Cotton
15:10:56 <MichaelC> present+ Steve_Faulkner
15:10:59 <Stevef> Stevef has joined #html-a11y
15:11:59 <Judy> JS: So we're just looking to see if a change proposal comes in
15:12:11 <Judy> zakim, take up next item
15:12:11 <Zakim> agendum 9. "Issue-205 Status" taken up [from janina]
15:12:54 <Judy> JS: There was a decision on 205. Potential concerns wrt factual content. Still under discussion as to whether will request reconsideration.
15:13:11 <Judy> ...requested an extension of response time till Aug 3rd. Granted.
15:13:19 <Judy> zakim, take up next item
15:13:19 <Zakim> agendum 10. "Issue-204 Status" taken up [from janina]
15:13:42 <Judy> JS: Anyone looked at latest postings on that thread? 
15:14:20 <Judy> JF: Apparently trying to sort out details & typos in diff
15:15:05 <Judy> JS: looked at newer version of his cp?
15:15:15 <Judy> zakim, take up next item
15:15:15 <Zakim> agendum 11. "Issue-201 Status" taken up [from janina]
15:15:29 <Judy> JS: Rich, some discussion on that?
15:15:46 <Judy> RS: Asked Ted to include links to changes that were being proposed from before
15:15:56 <Judy> ...eventually got the details to look at
15:16:05 <Stevef> teds proposal http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/User:Eoconnor/ISSUE-201
15:16:14 <Judy> ...in the details on hit regions, the fallback content limited to ~5 form regions, and that's it
15:16:30 <Judy> ... supported tab index
15:16:48 <Judy> ...the limitations in his cp are huge in terms of ability to support accessibility requirements
15:17:03 <Judy> ...dunno if he's seen the comments on that concern
15:17:18 <Judy> JS: intention or accidental exclusion?
15:17:22 <Judy> RS: unclear
15:17:33 <Judy> scribe: Judy
15:17:34 <Stevef> email from me on subject: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jul/0203.html
15:17:55 <Judy> RS: this tweak that they threw in breaks the accessibility support
15:18:03 <Stevef> email from rich: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jul/0204.html
15:18:06 <Judy> ...and the limitation is just one of the problems
15:18:53 <Judy> SF: [inaudible]
15:19:21 <Judy> SF: this is deliberately defined in the WHATWG spec
15:20:23 <Judy> RS: not the first time someone has tried to restrict ARIA use
15:20:32 <Judy> q+
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15:21:48 <Judy> JB: Get on phone with Ted and let him know he's missing key requirements?
15:21:50 <Judy> PC: Weren't the action items coming out of that meeting on Rich, not on Ted and Frank?
15:22:25 <Judy> RS: We didn't have the details of his approach at that time. Was not possible to identify the massive bug until he'd provided those details.
15:22:33 <Judy> PC: Give him a chance to respond.
15:23:31 <Judy> SF: will paste links to info 
15:24:17 <Stevef> no ARIA custom control can be referenced from a hit region unless it is built on a small number of html elements as defined in the change proposal diff http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=7028&to=7029
15:24:42 <Judy> RS: that line just needs to be removed
15:25:05 <Stevef> email about text changes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jul/0162.html
15:25:18 <Judy> zakim, who's here?
15:25:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
15:25:19 <Zakim> On IRC I see lwatson, Stevef, paulc, richardschwerdtfe, Judy, JF, RRSAgent, janina, davidb, MichaelC, MikeSmith, Zakim, [tm], trackbot
15:26:19 <paulc> Steve's email asks for review of further changes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jul/0198.html
15:26:41 <Judy> zakim, this is WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)
15:26:41 <Zakim> Judy, this was already WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM
15:26:43 <Zakim> ok, Judy; that matches WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM
15:26:50 <Judy> zakim, who's on the phone?
15:26:50 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
15:27:22 <Stevef> rich's original message: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2012Jul/0084.html
15:28:01 <MichaelC> scribe: MichaelC
15:28:17 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
15:28:18 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, MichaelC
15:28:21 <MichaelC> q?
15:28:24 <MichaelC> ack j
15:28:24 <Judy> q-
15:28:26 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
15:28:26 <Zakim> agendum 12. "Issue-194 Status" taken up [from janina]
15:28:38 <MichaelC> js: survey closes today, no objections logged
15:28:55 <MichaelC> added link to user requirements
15:29:08 <MichaelC> in my comments; none other logged just yet
15:30:00 <MichaelC> jf: can live with either of the proposals, but have a preference for one
15:30:21 <MichaelC> pc: log an objection on the less preferred one, say it's a mild objection, and provide your rationale
15:30:56 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
15:30:56 <Zakim> agendum 13. "Subteam Reports: Bug Triage; Text; ARIA Mappings" taken up [from janina]
15:31:44 <MichaelC> lw: none from bug triage
15:31:45 <janina> Janina noting that Issue-194 survey ends at midnight Boston.
15:31:53 <MichaelC> jb: text has no recent meetings, nothing else to report
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15:32:33 <MichaelC> sf: HTML API guide plugging away, but nothing major to report
15:33:06 <MichaelC> wasn't initially included in recharter of HTML WG; asked for it to be added and it was
15:33:22 <MichaelC> js: concerned too few people working on it
15:33:56 <MichaelC> with too little representation from browser manufacturers, might not arrive at a mapping that works
15:34:01 <MichaelC> need broader review
15:34:10 <MichaelC> are we getting to a point to solicit that?
15:34:26 <MichaelC> rs: no time to review
15:34:39 <MichaelC> sf: have had ongoing review from a number of implementers
15:35:38 <MichaelC> have asked in WhatWG circles, response was that they don't know about this so they don't respond to it
15:35:48 <MichaelC> s/this/this stuff/
15:36:17 <MichaelC> am hearing from individuals working on implementation at various implementers, particularly Webkit and Mozilla
15:36:45 <MichaelC> Microsoft has a couple people involved also
15:36:57 <MichaelC> we do need to get input on the scope of the document
15:37:10 <MichaelC> and work out what belongs in this doc, and what goes in the ARIA implementation guide
15:37:41 <MichaelC> rs: think ARIA should go through Last Call
15:37:49 <MichaelC> sf: no problem, just laying out the plan
15:38:22 <MichaelC> involvement of more people slows down because of more review cycles
15:38:27 <MichaelC> present+ Cynthia_Shelly
15:39:01 <MichaelC> cs: completing the ARIA implementation guide should free up resources for this work
15:39:17 <MichaelC> have some major time zone challenges for meetings
15:40:34 <MichaelC> js: it is a substantial effort, appreciate it's coming together
15:41:15 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
15:41:15 <Zakim> agendum 14. "Other Business" taken up [from janina]
15:41:32 <MichaelC> sf: meta generator has a change
15:41:42 <MichaelC> js: discussed earlier in call, moved to MAY
15:41:59 <MichaelC> expect to impact us only if a change proposal comes forward
15:42:04 <MichaelC> jb: which we expect, but have to await
15:42:36 <MichaelC> sf: best outcome would be that spec has stuff that conformance checker implementers would follow
15:43:04 <MichaelC> cs: remember there are multiple conformance checkers
15:43:28 <MichaelC> pc: note announcement of first batch of editors
15:46:04 <paulc> http://www.w3.org/QA/2012/07/html5_and_htmlnext.html
15:47:42 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has ended
15:47:43 <Zakim> Attendees were 
15:58:29 <janina> scribe: janina
15:58:36 <janina> zakim, bye
15:58:36 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-a11y
15:58:43 <janina> rrsagent, make log public
15:58:50 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
15:58:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/26-html-a11y-minutes.html janina
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