IRC log of i18n on 2012-07-25

Timestamps are in UTC.

15:01:46 [RRSAgent]: RRSAgent has joined #i18n
15:01:46 [RRSAgent]: logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-i18n-irc
15:01:55 [Zakim]: Zakim has joined #i18n
15:02:01 [aphillip]: trackbot, prepare teleconference
15:02:03 [trackbot]: RRSAgent, make logs world
15:02:05 [trackbot]: Zakim, this will be 4186
15:02:06 [trackbot]: Meeting: Internationalization Core Working Group Teleconference
15:02:06 [trackbot]: Date: 25 July 2012
15:02:06 [Zakim]: ok, trackbot; I see I18N_CoreWG()11:00AM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago
15:02:39 [aphillip]: Regrets: David
15:03:01 [r12a]: zakim, dial richard
15:03:01 [Zakim]: ok, r12a; the call is being made
15:03:20 [aphillip]: Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2012JulSep/0046.html
15:03:50 [Zakim]: -??P18
15:04:01 [aphillip]: zakim, ??P6 is andrewc
15:04:03 [Zakim]: +andrewc; got it
15:04:10 [Zakim]: +??P18
15:04:13 [aphillip]: zakim, I am Addison_Phillips
15:04:14 [Zakim]: ok, aphillip, I now associate you with Addison_Phillips
15:04:25 [matial]: zakim, ??p18 is me
15:04:49 [aphillip]: Chair: Addison Phillips
15:04:53 [Zakim]: +matial; got it
15:04:54 [aphillip]: Scribe: Addison Phillips
15:04:59 [Zakim]: +??P26
15:05:00 [aphillip]: ScribeNick: aphillip
15:05:32 [aphillip]: Topic: Agenda
15:05:48 [aphillip]: 2 adds from richard
15:05:58 [aphillip]: Topic: Action Items
15:07:27 [aphillip]: action-81: in progress
15:07:27 [trackbot]: ACTION-81 Create blog post on what's going on with IRI notes added
15:07:44 [Norbert]: Norbert has joined #i18n
15:08:05 [aphillip]: close ACTION-108
15:08:05 [trackbot]: ACTION-108 Remind everyone to read and comment on IRI documents closed
15:08:15 [Zakim]: + +1.415.283.aaaa
15:08:36 [r12a]: http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
15:08:37 [aphillip]: close ACTION-118
15:08:37 [trackbot]: ACTION-118 Read and comment on bidi tutorial update at http://www.w3.org/International/tutorials/new-bidi-xhtml/Overview-inline.en.php#where (AND ALL GROUP MEMBERS) closed
15:08:48 [aphillip]: close ACTION-120
15:08:48 [trackbot]: ACTION-120 Remind WG members to read http://www.w3.org/International/docs/ruby/editme.html with a mind to publishing FPWD (AND GROUP MEMBERS) closed
15:08:51 [aphillip]: close ACTION-123
15:08:51 [trackbot]: ACTION-123 Remind all group members to review other bidi documents in the Core Pipeline for wide review by next week (AND ALL GROUP MEMBERS) closed
15:09:01 [aphillip]: close ACTION-127
15:09:01 [trackbot]: ACTION-127 (AND ALL GROUP MEMBERS) study additional bidi controls proposal and express support or lack of support for it at Unicode closed
15:09:30 [Norbert]: zakim, +1.415 is me
15:09:30 [Zakim]: +Norbert; got it
15:09:42 [aphillip]: close ACTION-137
15:09:42 [trackbot]: ACTION-137 Make a wiki page with the basis for general guidelines for everyone to pile on closed
15:10:24 [aphillip]: Topic: Info Share
15:10:31 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:10:51 [aphillip]: rrsagent, set logs world-visible
15:10:56 [r12a]: http://rishida.net/blog/?p=946
15:11:06 [aphillip]: richard: if you work with the UnicodeData.txt file at all
15:11:12 [aphillip]: ... see above blog entry
15:11:23 [aphillip]: ... have a new tool for parsing and displaying the data
15:11:32 [aphillip]: ... checks for valid syntax in the data file
15:11:44 [aphillip]: ... and you can edit a line and generate a new version of UnicodeData.txt
15:11:56 [aphillip]: ... useful if you want to propose a character
15:12:02 [aphillip]: richard: another thing I did
15:12:14 [aphillip]: ... was expand Uniview slightly
15:12:26 [aphillip]: ... gives more info about scripts and such
15:12:34 [r12a]: http://rishida.net/scripts/uniview/?block=balinese
15:12:42 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:13:10 [r12a]: http://www.w3.org/International/tests/html-css/ruby/results-ruby-markup
15:13:11 [aphillip]: richard: third and most important thing I did in Geek Week
15:13:11 [aphillip]: ... was update test results pages
15:13:18 [aphillip]: ... see above linke for current
15:13:21 [aphillip]: ... and new version:
15:13:23 [r12a]: http://www.w3.org/International/tests/html-css/ruby/results-interactive
15:13:28 [aphillip]: s/linke/link/
15:14:06 [aphillip]: ... now pulls data live from test results
15:14:13 [aphillip]: ... makes it really fast to make a page
15:14:26 [aphillip]: ... some bad results need cleanup and such
15:14:54 [aphillip]: ... at some point need to convert pages over
15:15:29 [r12a]: http://www.w3.org/International/tests/html-css/bidi-html5/results-bidi-html5-live
15:15:53 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:16:17 [aphillip]: Topic: polyglot issue
15:16:18 [aphillip]: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2012Jul/0006.html
15:16:35 [aphillip]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-i18n-core/2012JulSep/0006.html
15:17:03 [aphillip]: 11. Example Document http://www.w3.org/TR/html-polyglot/#example-document The i18n WG would prefer the example code in section 11 to have a visible encoding declaration (ie. <meta charset="utf-8"/>. This would illustrate the points made in section 3.
15:17:33 [aphillip]: addison: support this
15:17:54 [aphillip]: felix: support
15:17:54 [matial]: no pb
15:18:35 [aphillip]: Topic: .prep issues in general
15:18:36 [aphillip]: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2012Jul/0007.html
15:18:45 [aphillip]: richard: do we need to start clearing .prep issues out
15:18:54 [aphillip]: s/issues out/issues out?/
15:22:23 [aphillip]: richard: favor sending/forwarding comments that no one asks to close or discuss
15:22:57 [aphillip]: ACTION: addison: send email(s) to the winter list asking for any .prep issues that need closing or discussion
15:22:57 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-141 - Send email(s) to the winter list asking for any .prep issues that need closing or discussion [on Addison Phillips - due 2012-08-01].
15:26:04 [aphillip]: norbert: how many?
15:26:06 [aphillip]: richard: 19 or so
15:26:14 [aphillip]: norbert: not so bad
15:26:32 [aphillip]: richard: started trying to work through bugzilla issues
15:26:51 [aphillip]: ... hixie is moving away from HTML5 towards HTML-next
15:26:58 [aphillip]: ... so assigning off remaining reports
15:27:08 [aphillip]: ... so do we continue threads on bug reports?
15:31:18 [fsasaki]: http://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/next
15:32:58 [Norbert]: Norbert has joined #i18n
15:36:48 [aphillip]: Topic: IRI, HTML5, ITS, and other comments
15:37:02 [aphillip]: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17989
15:37:21 [fsasaki]: zakim, unmute me
15:37:21 [Zakim]: fsasaki should no longer be muted
15:37:28 [r12a]: sounded fine to me
15:37:29 [fsasaki]: http://dev.w3.org/html5/decision-policy/html5-stabilization-plan.html , http://www.w3.org/QA/2012/04/progress_on_html5.html
15:37:52 [fsasaki]: zakim, mute me
15:37:52 [Zakim]: fsasaki should now be muted
15:37:55 [aphillip]: felix: look at these pages: give background on editors and such
15:38:19 [aphillip]: http://html5.org/tools/web-apps-tracker?from=7195&to=7196
15:38:45 [aphillip]: however; time + zones are used as political footballs and are thus subject to very + whimsical policy decisions.</p>
15:39:09 [aphillip]: chair: objections to closing as satisfied?
15:39:37 [aphillip]: okay to close
15:39:40 [aphillip]: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=17857
15:40:06 [r12a]: close Issue-165
15:40:06 [trackbot]: ISSUE-165 Add character encoding declaration to section 11 closed
15:40:27 [aphillip]: Because I wrote the example and know to what event the example refers, and the example happened on the east coast. And the spec says so. There's no way to know this just from the date, but as mentioned in the #1 above, that's just a limitation of the ISO format.
15:42:10 [aphillip]: One millisecond after noon on October 14th 1979, in the time zone in use on the east coast of the USA during daylight saving time.
15:42:22 [aphillip]: addison: insert "which might be"
15:42:52 [r12a]: One millisecond after noon on October 14th 1979, in the time zone in use, which might be on the east coast of the USA during daylight saving time.
15:43:31 [r12a]: One millisecond after noon on October 14th 1979, in the time zone in use, which might, for example, be on the east coast of the USA during daylight saving time.
15:43:48 [aphillip]: well, more like: One millisecond after noon on October 14th 1979, *which might be* in the time zone in use on the east coast of the USA during daylight saving time.
15:44:20 [aphillip]: It should be made clear that a zone offset is not the same thing as a time zone. Mention should be made of the need for separate time zone information when working with real date and time values in use cases that depend on it (see our note "Working with Time Zones")
15:45:16 [aphillip]: just adding "which might be" is not sufficient
15:45:19 [aphillip]: richard: need to suggest
15:46:07 [aphillip]: Note: the zone offset is not a complete time zone specification. When working with real date and time values, consider using a separate field for time zone, perhaps useing IANA time zone IDs.
15:46:19 [aphillip]: s/useing/using/
15:46:32 [aphillip]: and @ref WWTZ note
15:47:26 [aphillip]: http://dev.w3.org/html5/spec/single-page.html#global-dates-and-times
15:51:18 [aphillip]: section 2.5.5.6: probably needs a note
15:51:33 [aphillip]: norbert: file a separate ticket to say that IANA time zones need accomodation
15:52:08 [aphillip]: ACTION: addion: file a ticket on HTML5 asking for accommodation of IANA time zone IDs
15:52:08 [trackbot]: Sorry, couldn't find user - addion
15:52:35 [aphillip]: ACTION: addison: file a ticket on HTML5 asking for accommodation of IANA time zone IDs
15:52:35 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-142 - File a ticket on HTML5 asking for accommodation of IANA time zone IDs [on Addison Phillips - due 2012-08-01].
15:54:31 [aphillip]: mark this one as "not yet satisfied"?
15:55:03 [aphillip]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2012JulSep/0042.html
15:55:10 [fsasaki]: zakim, unmute me
15:55:10 [Zakim]: fsasaki should no longer be muted
15:55:22 [aphillip]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2012JulSep/0042.html
15:55:42 [aphillip]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2012JulSep/0042.html
15:55:49 [aphillip]: http://www.w3.org/International/multilingualweb/lt/drafts/its20/its20.html#LocaleFilter
15:57:16 [fsasaki]: <its:localeFilterRule selector="//legalnotice[@role='Canada']" localeFilterType="include" localeFilterList="en-CA, fr-CA"/>
15:59:13 [aphillip]: addison: consider extended filtering?
15:59:38 [aphillip]: *-CA covers other languages spoken in Canada, such as Inuktitut, etc.
16:00:10 [aphillip]: ACTION: felix: convey to ITS feedback about considering using of extended filtering in ITS 2.0
16:00:11 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-143 - Convey to ITS feedback about considering using of extended filtering in ITS 2.0 [on Felix Sasaki - due 2012-08-01].
16:00:48 [aphillip]: Topic: Web Notificiations
16:00:50 [aphillip]: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-international/2012JulSep/0043.html
16:01:19 [aphillip]: richard: keep direction in separate thread
16:03:31 [aphillip]: ACTION: addison: satisfied with language but not with direction using separate emails on the separate threads
16:03:31 [trackbot]: Created ACTION-144 - Satisfied with language but not with direction using separate emails on the separate threads [on Addison Phillips - due 2012-08-01].
16:04:01 [aphillip]: Topic: AOB?
16:04:19 [aphillip]: http://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Review_radar
16:05:19 [aphillip]: remind on writing-mode
16:05:29 [aphillip]: read turtle for next week's agenda?
16:06:17 [aphillip]: turtle it is
16:06:34 [aphillip]: richard: include that we are looking for IG comments too
16:07:17 [aphillip]: addison: will generate boilerplate
16:07:38 [Zakim]: -fsasaki
16:07:38 [Zakim]: -Addison_Phillips
16:07:40 [Zakim]: -Norbert
16:07:44 [aphillip]: rrsagent, make minutes
16:07:44 [RRSAgent]: I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:07:44 [Zakim]: -matial
16:07:51 [Zakim]: -andrewc
16:08:11 [r12a]: addison, don't forget that we need to go through the .prep- stuff next week too ;-)
16:08:48 [fsasaki]: aphilipp, I'll just make a short correction to the minutes, please wait before sending them out, will be done in a minute
16:11:39 [fsasaki]: rrsagent, bye
16:11:39 [RRSAgent]: I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-i18n-actions.rdf :
16:11:39 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: addison: send email(s) to the winter list asking for any .prep issues that need closing or discussion [1]
16:11:39 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-i18n-irc#T15-22-57
16:11:39 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: addion: file a ticket on HTML5 asking for accommodation of IANA time zone IDs [2]
16:11:39 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-i18n-irc#T15-52-08
16:11:39 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: addison: file a ticket on HTML5 asking for accommodation of IANA time zone IDs [3]
16:11:39 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-i18n-irc#T15-52-35
16:11:39 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: felix: convey to ITS feedback about considering using of extended filtering in ITS 2.0 [4]
16:11:39 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-i18n-irc#T16-00-10
16:11:39 [RRSAgent]: ACTION: addison: satisfied with language but not with direction using separate emails on the separate threads [5]
16:11:39 [RRSAgent]: recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-i18n-irc#T16-03-31
16:11:44 [fsasaki]: zakim, bye
16:11:44 [Zakim]: leaving. As of this point the attendees were Addison_Phillips, Richard, andrewc, matial, fsasaki, +1.415.283.aaaa, Norbert
16:11:44 [Zakim]: Zakim has left #i18n