13:58:46 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dap
13:58:46 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-dap-irc
13:58:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:58:48 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dap
13:58:50 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DAP
13:58:50 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see UW_DAP()10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
13:58:51 <trackbot> Meeting: Device APIs Working Group Teleconference
13:58:51 <trackbot> Date: 25 July 2012
13:58:56 <darobin> Chair: Robin
13:59:04 <darobin> Regrets: Frederick, Niklas
13:59:17 <gmandyam> gmandyam has joined #dap
13:59:35 <Zakim> UW_DAP()10:00AM has now started
13:59:39 <darobin> Zakim, who is here?
13:59:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see no one
13:59:40 <Zakim> On IRC I see gmandyam, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, Marcos1, dcheng3, dsr, fjh, richt, slightlyoff, lgombos, Josh_Soref, trackbot, mounir, hiroto_away, dom
13:59:42 <Zakim> +dcheng3
14:00:01 <Zakim> -dcheng3
14:00:02 <Zakim> +??P14
14:00:14 <Zakim> + +1.858.780.aaaa
14:00:39 <Zakim> +dcheng3
14:00:39 <Jungkee> Jungkee has joined #dap
14:00:43 <Josh_Soref> Scribe: Josh_Soref 
14:00:49 <Zakim> +Josh_Soref
14:00:49 <Jungkee> Present+ Jungkee_Song
14:00:54 <dcheng3> Present+ Diana_Cheng
14:01:32 <Josh_Soref> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:01:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref
14:02:22 <darobin> Zakim, ??P14 is me
14:02:22 <Zakim> +darobin; got it
14:02:27 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, where is +1858?
14:02:27 <Zakim> North American dialing code 1.858 is California
14:02:38 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
14:02:49 <gmandyam> That is me - Giri Mandyam, Qualcomm Innovation Center
14:03:21 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, gmandyam is Giri_Mandyam
14:03:21 <Zakim> +Giri_Mandyam; got it
14:03:24 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, nick gmandyam is Giri_Mandyam
14:03:24 <Zakim> ok, Josh_Soref, I now associate gmandyam with Giri_Mandyam
14:03:47 <Zakim> +??P18
14:03:58 <Jungkee> Zakim, mute me
14:03:58 <Zakim> Jungkee should now be muted
14:04:08 <richt_> richt_ has joined #dap
14:04:14 <Zakim> +Dsr
14:04:29 <darobin> Present+ Robin_Berjon
14:04:35 <darobin> Zakim, who's here?
14:04:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see darobin, Giri_Mandyam, dcheng3, Josh_Soref, Jungkee (muted), ??P18, Dsr
14:04:35 <Milan_Patel> Milan_Patel has joined #dap
14:04:37 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, p18 is Marcos1 
14:04:37 <Zakim> On IRC I see richt_, Jungkee, gmandyam, Zakim, RRSAgent, darobin, Marcos1, dcheng3, dsr, fjh, richt, slightlyoff, lgombos, Josh_Soref, trackbot, mounir, hiroto_away, dom
14:04:37 <Zakim> sorry, Josh_Soref, I do not recognize a party named 'p18'
14:04:43 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, ??p18 is Marcos
14:04:43 <Zakim> +Marcos; got it
14:04:48 <Zakim> + +1.781.266.aabb
14:04:48 <Jungkee> P18 might be me?
14:04:53 <dsr> Present+ Dave_Raggett
14:04:53 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, nick Marcos1 is Marcos
14:04:53 <Zakim> ok, Josh_Soref, I now associate Marcos1 with Marcos
14:05:00 <fjh1> fjh1 has joined #dap
14:05:04 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, mute Marcos1 
14:05:04 <Zakim> sorry, Josh_Soref, I do not know which phone connection belongs to Marcos1
14:05:07 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, mute Marcos
14:05:07 <Zakim> Marcos should now be muted
14:05:14 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, unmute Marcos
14:05:14 <Zakim> Marcos should no longer be muted
14:05:17 <Jungkee> Zakim, P18 is me?
14:05:17 <Zakim> sorry, Jungkee, I do not understand your question
14:05:26 <Jungkee> ;)
14:05:32 <Josh_Soref> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:05:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-dap-minutes.html Josh_Soref
14:05:33 <fjh1> fjh1 has left #dap
14:05:37 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, who is on the call?
14:05:37 <Zakim> On the phone I see darobin, Giri_Mandyam, dcheng3, Josh_Soref, Jungkee (muted), Marcos, Dsr, +1.781.266.aabb
14:05:53 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, where is +1781?
14:06:07 <Zakim> North American dialing code 1.781 is Massachusetts
14:06:22 <darobin> Zakim, aabb is Cathy
14:06:22 <Zakim> +Cathy; got it
14:06:43 <Josh_Soref> s/P18 might be me?//
14:06:45 <Josh_Soref> Topic: Agenda
14:06:52 <Zakim> +lgombos
14:06:53 <Josh_Soref> darobin: anything people want to add to the agenda?
14:06:56 <Josh_Soref> [ None ]
14:06:59 <Jungkee> I have one
14:06:59 <Zakim> + +47.23.69.aacc
14:07:00 <Josh_Soref> Topic: Minutes Approval
14:07:05 <richt_> Zakim, aacc is me
14:07:05 <Zakim> +richt_; got it
14:07:10 <Jungkee> Zakim, unmute me
14:07:10 <Zakim> Jungkee should no longer be muted
14:07:23 <Josh_Soref> Jungkee: i updated the ED of Pick Media
14:07:39 <Josh_Soref> ... the major change in the update is the Media Dictionary for MetaData
14:08:05 <Josh_Soref> ... i xxx some url
14:08:06 <Clarke> Clarke has joined #dap
14:08:13 <Josh_Soref> ... we can talk about the next step including fragments
14:08:20 <Josh_Soref> ... and talk to service providers, etc.
14:08:31 <Josh_Soref> darobin: do you want to discuss this on the call?
14:08:37 <Josh_Soref> ... or relegate it to the list?
14:08:50 <Josh_Soref> Jungkee: we'll need some time to review the updated documents
14:09:01 <Josh_Soref> ... maybe we can schedule some time for next week's call?
14:09:16 <Marcos1> zakim, who is making noise? 
14:09:24 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, mute Jungkee 
14:09:24 <Zakim> Jungkee should now be muted
14:09:24 <darobin> proposed RESOLUTION: discuss updated Pick Media next week
14:09:25 <Zakim> +??P22
14:09:29 <Zakim> Marcos1, listening for 12 seconds I heard sound from the following: Josh_Soref (4%), Jungkee (16%)
14:09:33 <Zakim> + +25686aadd
14:09:34 <Clarke> ??P22 is me
14:09:34 <Jungkee> Zakim, unmute me
14:09:34 <Zakim> Jungkee should no longer be muted
14:09:45 <Josh_Soref> darobin: ok, we can talk about Pick Media next week
14:09:47 <Clarke> zakim, ??P22 is me
14:09:47 <Zakim> +Clarke; got it
14:09:48 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, mute me
14:09:48 <Zakim> Josh_Soref should now be muted
14:09:51 <Jungkee> thanks
14:10:01 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, where is +256?
14:10:01 <Zakim> country code 256 is Uganda
14:10:24 <Josh_Soref> RESOLUTION: discuss updated Pick Media next week
14:10:35 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, who is making noise?
14:10:44 <Josh_Soref> s/Topic: Minutes Approval//
14:10:46 <Zakim> Josh_Soref, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: darobin (74%)
14:10:49 <Josh_Soref> Topic: Minutes Approval
14:10:55 <Milan_Patel> Present+ Milan_Patel
14:10:56 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, mute aadd
14:10:56 <Zakim> +25686aadd should now be muted
14:10:57 <darobin> proposed RESOLUTION: Minutes from Burlington F2F are approved.
14:11:08 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, who is on the call?
14:11:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see darobin, Giri_Mandyam, dcheng3, Josh_Soref (muted), Jungkee, Marcos, Dsr, Cathy, lgombos, richt_, Clarke, +25686aadd (muted)
14:11:10 <darobin> Zakim, who's making noise?
14:11:16 <Jungkee> s/including fragments /including refinement of metadata dictionary
14:11:19 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, mute Clarke 
14:11:19 <Zakim> Clarke should now be muted
14:11:21 <Zakim> darobin, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Jungkee (3%)
14:11:27 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, mute Jungkee 
14:11:27 <Zakim> Jungkee should now be muted
14:11:53 <Josh_Soref> RESOLUTION: Minutes from Burlington F2F are approved.
14:12:12 <Josh_Soref> Topic: HTML MC Feedback
14:12:26 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, aadd is probably Milan_Patel 
14:12:26 <Zakim> +Milan_Patel?; got it
14:12:36 <Josh_Soref> darobin: i'm not sure we need to go over all the feedback
14:12:40 <Josh_Soref> ... a lot of it is editorial
14:12:44 <Josh_Soref> ... or confusion
14:12:54 <Milan_Patel> Milan is here 
14:12:58 <Cathy> Cathy has joined #dap
14:13:02 <Josh_Soref> ... Anssi is on vacation
14:13:11 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, Milan_Patel? is Milan_Patel 
14:13:11 <Zakim> +Milan_Patel; got it
14:13:34 <Josh_Soref> darobin: does anyone want to enter the LC bits into the LC tracker?
14:13:40 <Josh_Soref> Marcos1: is there a new one?
14:13:59 <Josh_Soref> s/tracker?/ tracker [learning a new tool]?/
14:14:07 <Josh_Soref> darobin: no, but it may be new to some people
14:14:15 <darobin> ACTION: Robin to enter the HTML MC LC comments into the tracking tool
14:14:15 <Josh_Soref> Marcos1: i'm going on vacation shortly
14:14:16 <trackbot> Created ACTION-562 - Enter the HTML MC LC comments into the tracking tool [on Robin Berjon - due 2012-08-01].
14:14:34 <Josh_Soref> darobin: anything else on HTML Media Capture?
14:14:44 <Josh_Soref> ... i'm sure Anssi will take an editing pass when he comes back
14:14:47 <Josh_Soref> Topic: Light Sensor
14:14:55 <Josh_Soref> darobin: there's been discussion, a spec, some tests
14:15:01 <Josh_Soref> ... i'm using the same link for the spec and tests
14:15:06 <Josh_Soref> ... not what i intended to do
14:15:14 <darobin> http://dvcs.w3.org/hg/dap/raw-file/tip/light/Overview.html
14:15:34 <Josh_Soref> darobin: it's a pretty cool, pretty simple draft
14:15:39 <Josh_Soref> ... do we want a CfC to publish it?
14:15:41 <Josh_Soref> Marcos1: i'd support that
14:15:58 <darobin> ACTION: Robin to start a CfC for Light
14:16:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-563 - Start a CfC for Light [on Robin Berjon - due 2012-08-01].
14:16:10 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, unmute me
14:16:10 <Zakim> Josh_Soref should no longer be muted
14:17:15 <Josh_Soref> Josh_Soref: i'm rather skeptical about all of this
14:17:31 <Josh_Soref> ... i expect browser UAs to be able to do things more intelligently if they evolve on their own
14:17:42 <Josh_Soref> Marcos1: from working w/ darobin on a course
14:17:57 <Josh_Soref> ... there's a trend in mobile developers creating interfaces designed for outdoors
14:18:13 <Josh_Soref> ... i agree with you, Josh_Soref, that intelligently adapting on the UA side would be great
14:18:27 <Josh_Soref> Josh_Soref: but that's a Media Query
14:18:58 <Josh_Soref> ... instead of proposing low level api first
14:19:02 <Josh_Soref> ... propose a Media Query
14:22:52 <Josh_Soref> darobin: i hear your concerns, Josh_Soref 
14:23:05 <Josh_Soref> ... but i think they'd be better addressed by having a venue in which to sort these things out
14:23:09 <Josh_Soref> ... than by not having it
14:23:24 <Josh_Soref> Marcos1: note that they're unprefixed in Aurora/Firefox Mobile
14:23:31 <Josh_Soref> darobin: you should voice your concern in the CfC
14:23:39 <Josh_Soref> Marcos1: i agree, there's something that doesn't feel quite right
14:23:50 <Josh_Soref> ... hopefully we can get a prefixed version with the mozilla guys
14:24:39 <Josh_Soref> Topic: Temperature and Humidity
14:25:43 <Josh_Soref> Josh_Soref: i don't like the idea of these things being native exposed apis
14:25:46 <Josh_Soref> ... as opposed to being intents
14:26:06 <Josh_Soref> ... because when i'm using a car / phone in a car / tablet in a car
14:26:20 <Josh_Soref> ... the onboard sensor for the UA that's hosting the system
14:26:26 <Josh_Soref> ... may be very far from the physical user
14:26:45 <Josh_Soref> ... and thus give the wrong answer
14:26:51 <Josh_Soref> ... whereas an Intent could do the right thing
14:27:01 <gmandyam> +q
14:27:05 <Josh_Soref> darobin: nothing prevents us from morphing from an API to an Intent
14:27:08 <Josh_Soref> ... pick/subscribe
14:27:12 <Josh_Soref> ... do we have a subscribe verb?
14:27:14 <darobin> ack gmandyam
14:27:14 <Josh_Soref> ... yes we do
14:27:24 <Josh_Soref> gmandyam: if we take this on as an Intent form
14:27:34 <Josh_Soref> ... does that tie us to the intent discovery process in the UA?
14:27:53 <Josh_Soref> ... i have a problem with intents from a mobile perspective
14:28:33 <Josh_Soref> darobin: the question is whether the WG wants to take on the work?
14:28:40 <Josh_Soref> Marcos1: can we just gather UCs?
14:28:52 <Josh_Soref> ... it's an unofficial draft
14:29:26 <darobin> Josh_Soref: what will happen for discovery is that a mobile device will know about its one on-board sensor
14:30:02 <darobin> gmandyam: yes, we may not want to expose details to users
14:30:08 <Josh_Soref> Zakim, drop me
14:30:08 <Zakim> Josh_Soref is being disconnected
14:30:10 <Zakim> -Josh_Soref
14:30:12 <darobin> Josh_Soref: it's only about specs, we don't specify UI
14:30:25 <darobin> Marcos tries to explain the plan
14:30:34 <darobin> [scribe lost]
14:31:13 <Zakim> +Josh_Soref
14:31:21 <darobin> Zakim, drop Josh_Soref
14:31:21 <Zakim> Josh_Soref is being disconnected
14:31:23 <Zakim> -Josh_Soref
14:31:45 <Zakim> +Josh_Soref
14:31:57 <Zakim> -Jungkee
14:32:24 <Josh_Soref> darobin: i don't think we want to publish
14:32:26 <Josh_Soref> Marcos1: i agree
14:32:30 <Josh_Soref> ... let's chat a bit more
14:32:38 <Josh_Soref> ... let's wait on a reference implementation
14:32:42 <Josh_Soref> ... and explore the UCs
14:32:46 <Josh_Soref> darobin: that sounds good to me
14:32:56 <Josh_Soref> ... thanks a lot for putting the spec together
14:33:09 <Josh_Soref> ... if you get back from vacation, you can take this up
14:33:15 <Zakim> +??P7
14:33:25 <darobin> Zakim, mute ??P7
14:33:25 <Zakim> ??P7 should now be muted
14:33:30 <Jungkee> Zakim, P7 is me
14:33:31 <Zakim> sorry, Jungkee, I do not recognize a party named 'P7'
14:33:45 <Jungkee> Zakim, ??P7 is me
14:33:45 <Zakim> +Jungkee; got it
14:34:08 <Jungkee> Zakim, mute me
14:34:16 <Zakim> Jungkee was already muted, Jungkee
14:36:08 <lgombos> 22done
14:36:59 <gmandyam> +q
14:37:06 <darobin> ack gmandyam
14:38:40 <Josh_Soref> s/22done//
14:39:13 <Josh_Soref> [ Discussion of Node.js / NodeBots ]
14:39:26 <Josh_Soref> [ Adjourned ]
14:39:34 <Zakim> -Marcos
14:39:35 <Zakim> -lgombos
14:39:35 <Zakim> -Giri_Mandyam
14:39:36 <Zakim> -richt_
14:39:36 <Zakim> -Milan_Patel
14:39:38 <Zakim> -Clarke
14:39:39 <Zakim> -Jungkee
14:39:40 <Zakim> -darobin
14:39:40 <Zakim> -dcheng3
14:39:44 <Zakim> -Dsr
14:39:48 <Josh_Soref> trackbot, end meeting
14:39:48 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
14:39:48 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been dcheng3, +1.858.780.aaaa, Josh_Soref, darobin, Giri_Mandyam, Jungkee, Dsr, Marcos, +1.781.266.aabb, Cathy, lgombos, +47.23.69.aacc, richt_,
14:39:52 <Zakim> ... +25686aadd, Clarke, Milan_Patel
14:39:56 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
14:39:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-dap-minutes.html trackbot
14:39:56 <Zakim> -Josh_Soref
14:39:57 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
14:39:57 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-dap-actions.rdf :
14:39:57 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Robin to enter the HTML MC LC comments into the tracking tool [1]
14:39:57 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-dap-irc#T14-14-15
14:39:57 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Robin to start a CfC for Light [2]
14:39:57 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/25-dap-irc#T14-15-58
14:40:06 <gmandyam> Zakim, drop me
14:40:06 <Zakim> sorry, gmandyam, I do not see a party named 'gmandyam'