IRC log of html-wg on 2012-07-12
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 15:55:33 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #html-wg
- 15:55:33 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/07/12-html-wg-irc
- 15:55:35 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 15:55:36 [yang]
- zakim, ??P13 is me
- 15:55:36 [Zakim]
- +yang; got it
- 15:55:37 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be html_wg
- 15:55:38 [trackbot]
- Meeting: HTML Weekly Teleconference
- 15:55:38 [trackbot]
- Date: 12 July 2012
- 15:55:38 [Zakim]
- ok, trackbot, I see HTML_WG()12:00PM already started
- 15:56:18 [adrianba]
- adrianba has joined #html-wg
- 15:58:00 [rubys]
- rubys has joined #html-wg
- 15:59:07 [eliot]
- eliot has joined #html-wg
- 15:59:14 [janina]
- janina has joined #html-wg
- 15:59:43 [paulc]
- paulc has joined #html-wg
- 15:59:43 [Zakim]
- +Sam
- 15:59:49 [laura]
- laura has joined #html-wg
- 16:00:03 [mjs]
- mjs has joined #html-wg
- 16:00:06 [Zakim]
- +??P27
- 16:00:14 [glenn]
- mjs: i already started trackbot
- 16:00:15 [janina]
- zakim, ??P27 is Janina
- 16:00:15 [Zakim]
- +Janina; got it
- 16:00:25 [Zakim]
- +[Microsoft]
- 16:00:28 [eliot]
- Zakim, Microsoft has me
- 16:00:28 [Zakim]
- +eliot; got it
- 16:00:43 [MFoladare]
- MFoladare has joined #html-wg
- 16:00:45 [glenn]
- Chair: mjs
- 16:00:50 [glenn]
- ScribeNick: glenn
- 16:00:53 [Zakim]
- +[Microsoft.a]
- 16:00:53 [glenn]
- Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-wg-announce/2012JulSep/0004.html
- 16:01:11 [krisk]
- krisk has joined #html-wg
- 16:01:11 [paulc]
- zakim, [Microsoft] has paulc
- 16:01:11 [Zakim]
- +paulc; got it
- 16:01:19 [paulc]
- zakim, list attendees
- 16:01:19 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been glenn, yang, Sam, Janina, eliot, [Microsoft], paulc
- 16:01:22 [glenn]
- Topic: ACTION items due by Thursday, July 12
- 16:01:37 [Zakim]
- +Radhika_Roy
- 16:01:44 [Zakim]
- +[GVoice]
- 16:01:53 [paulc]
- zakim, [Microsoft] has eliot
- 16:01:53 [Zakim]
- +eliot; got it
- 16:01:56 [ddorwin]
- ddorwin has joined #html-wg
- 16:01:58 [glenn]
- ACTION-217?
- 16:01:58 [trackbot]
- ACTION-217 -- Richard Schwerdtfeger to create a joint Path location add hit testing binding CP for ISSUE-201 that binds canvas to fallback content (Rich, Ted, Frank) -- due 2012-06-21 -- OPEN
- 16:01:58 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/actions/217
- 16:02:13 [ddorwin]
- zakim, [GVoice] is me
- 16:02:13 [Zakim]
- +ddorwin; got it
- 16:02:28 [Zakim]
- +Laura_Carlson
- 16:02:30 [Zakim]
- +[Microsoft.aa]
- 16:02:49 [Zakim]
- +mjs
- 16:02:53 [krisk]
- zakim, [Microsoft.aa] is krisk
- 16:02:53 [Zakim]
- +krisk; got it
- 16:02:55 [Zakim]
- +[Microsoft.aa]
- 16:03:06 [cjones]
- cjones has joined #html-wg
- 16:03:06 [Zakim]
- +hober
- 16:03:17 [adrianba]
- zakim, [Microsoft.aa] has adrianba
- 16:03:17 [Zakim]
- +adrianba; got it
- 16:04:12 [paulc]
- zakim, list attendees
- 16:04:12 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been glenn, yang, Sam, Janina, eliot, [Microsoft], paulc, Radhika_Roy, ddorwin, Laura_Carlson, mjs, krisk, hober, adrianba
- 16:04:21 [glenn]
- mjs: one item ACTION-217
- 16:04:49 [adrianba]
- zakim, [Microsoft.aa] has adrianba, frankolivier
- 16:04:49 [Zakim]
- adrianba was already listed in [Microsoft.aa], adrianba
- 16:04:50 [Zakim]
- +frankolivier; got it
- 16:04:52 [glenn]
- ... Ted and Frank are working this, SF has commented proposing his own
- 16:05:12 [paulc]
- Steve's proposal is at http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/ChangeProposals/hitregions
- 16:05:19 [paulc]
- This is a revision to Ted's proposal
- 16:05:29 [glenn]
- hober: some outstanding feedback from SF and Rich which might result in some changes
- 16:05:35 [glenn]
- ... but thinks it is stable
- 16:05:37 [Zakim]
- + +1.818.370.aaaa
- 16:05:46 [glenn]
- paulc: SF submitted comments/changes to Ted's proposal
- 16:06:05 [glenn]
- ... operative question is that others need to review SF's counter proposal
- 16:06:31 [glenn]
- mjs: may need to go to survey, but two proposals are much closer now
- 16:06:51 [paulc]
- Status of ISSUE-201: http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-201
- 16:07:13 [glenn]
- close ACTION-217
- 16:07:13 [trackbot]
- ACTION-217 Create a joint Path location add hit testing binding CP for ISSUE-201 that binds canvas to fallback content (Rich, Ted, Frank) closed
- 16:07:33 [glenn]
- paulc: should there be new action on Ted to review?
- 16:07:40 [glenn]
- mjs: thinks ML thread is sufficient
- 16:07:47 [glenn]
- janina: heard from rich will post soon
- 16:07:56 [paulc]
- Active discussion at: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jul/0064.html
- 16:08:11 [glenn]
- janina: nobody is disagreeing, sounds more like clarification discussion
- 16:08:41 [glenn]
- mjs: still should be able to reach consensus
- 16:08:58 [glenn]
- ... continue discussion on ML
- 16:09:02 [glenn]
- Topic: New Issues This Week
- 16:09:03 [glenn]
- none
- 16:09:12 [glenn]
- mjs: one tracker request
- 16:09:17 [glenn]
- ... to be LC2 comment
- 16:09:33 [glenn]
- Topic: Items closed Last Week
- 16:09:38 [glenn]
- ISSUE-189?
- 16:09:38 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-189 -- Prefix convention needs to be coordinated with IETF -- open
- 16:09:38 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/189
- 16:09:57 [glenn]
- ISSUE-200?
- 16:09:57 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-200 -- Allow wrapping LEGEND (or new iLEGEND) in non-FIELDSET elements -- open
- 16:09:57 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/200
- 16:10:08 [glenn]
- mjs: both calls have closed
- 16:10:16 [glenn]
- Topic: Issues Closing This Week
- 16:10:18 [glenn]
- none
- 16:10:24 [glenn]
- Topic: Items Closing Next Week
- 16:10:37 [glenn]
- ISSUE-199?
- 16:10:37 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-199 -- Define complete processing requirements for ARIA attributes -- open
- 16:10:37 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/199
- 16:11:13 [glenn]
- mjs: CfC active, revisions to CPs, consensus proposal present
- 16:11:22 [glenn]
- Topic: New Calls This Week
- 16:11:27 [glenn]
- ISSUE-199?
- 16:11:27 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-199 -- Define complete processing requirements for ARIA attributes -- open
- 16:11:27 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/199
- 16:11:42 [glenn]
- Topic: New Surveys This Week
- 16:11:44 [glenn]
- ISSUE-200?
- 16:11:44 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-200 -- Allow wrapping LEGEND (or new iLEGEND) in non-FIELDSET elements -- open
- 16:11:44 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/200
- 16:11:52 [MikeSmith]
- Zakim, call MIke
- 16:11:52 [Zakim]
- ok, MikeSmith; the call is being made
- 16:11:54 [Zakim]
- +MIke
- 16:12:02 [glenn]
- ISSUE-189?
- 16:12:02 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-189 -- Prefix convention needs to be coordinated with IETF -- open
- 16:12:02 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/189
- 16:12:21 [glenn]
- mjs: Julian raised issue that IETF desires further discussion, will check with Philippe
- 16:12:26 [paulc]
- q+
- 16:12:34 [glenn]
- ... may put survey on hold, but should still provide input
- 16:12:42 [glenn]
- paulc: plh says go ahead with survey
- 16:12:42 [paulc]
- ack paulc
- 16:13:00 [glenn]
- paulc: will respond on ML on this thread
- 16:13:11 [glenn]
- Topic: Decisions This Week
- 16:13:12 [glenn]
- none
- 16:13:21 [glenn]
- Topic: Task Force Reports
- 16:13:27 [glenn]
- [1] Testing Task Force
- 16:13:43 [glenn]
- kris: good morning, didn't meet last week will meet next week
- 16:13:51 [krisk]
- http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Testing#Upcoming_meetings
- 16:13:58 [glenn]
- ... schedule has been extended and posted on wiki
- 16:14:16 [glenn]
- ... had discussed spec change about pattern repeat, opened bug sent to list
- 16:14:20 [krisk]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jul/0065.html
- 16:14:31 [glenn]
- ... will have to see what consensus develops
- 16:14:35 [yang]
- q+
- 16:14:35 [glenn]
- ... q/c?
- 16:14:46 [mjs]
- ack yang
- 16:15:00 [glenn]
- yang: what day is testing call?
- 16:15:08 [krisk]
- Please see http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Testing
- 16:15:11 [glenn]
- kris: see above link
- 16:15:41 [glenn]
- yang: ok
- 16:15:46 [paulc]
- http://www.w3.org/html/wg/wiki/Testing#Conference_Calls
- 16:15:53 [glenn]
- ack yang
- 16:16:10 [yang]
- q+
- 16:16:11 [glenn]
- [2] Accessibility Task Force
- 16:16:28 [glenn]
- janina: not a lot to report
- 16:16:44 [glenn]
- ... people have continued working on their tasks
- 16:16:54 [glenn]
- ... lack of quorum in last call
- 16:16:59 [glenn]
- ... progress, but slower than usual
- 16:17:28 [glenn]
- ... chairs are aware of status changes on ISSUE-194, etc
- 16:17:46 [glenn]
- ... and on ISSUE-201, nothing to add on what's been said
- 16:18:03 [glenn]
- ... strongly opposed to moving ISSUE-203 forward before resolving ISSUE-30
- 16:18:17 [Zakim]
- + +1.415.832.aabb
- 16:18:22 [glenn]
- [that is the TF is opposed]
- 16:18:41 [glenn]
- mjs: yang is on queue
- 16:19:12 [glenn]
- yang: noticed on ML that may decide on 3 options on ISSUE-194
- 16:19:30 [paulc]
- http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-194
- 16:19:36 [glenn]
- ... will we discuss on this call?
- 16:19:45 [glenn]
- janina: can do if folks like
- 16:19:55 [glenn]
- paulc: chairs are preparing a survey on three options
- 16:20:00 [glenn]
- yang: a new survey?
- 16:20:10 [glenn]
- paulc: [explains process]
- 16:20:31 [glenn]
- yang: another question
- 16:20:45 [glenn]
- ... for ??? detection ???
- 16:20:50 [KevinStreeter]
- KevinStreeter has joined #html-wg
- 16:21:26 [glenn]
- [scribe: did not follow question]
- 16:21:43 [glenn]
- paulc: question is about hit testing and whether it is related to accessibility
- 16:21:49 [paulc]
- http://dev.w3.org/html5/status/issue-status.html#ISSUE-201
- 16:21:58 [glenn]
- ... see ISSUE-201
- 16:22:14 [glenn]
- paulc: [explains process about task forces]
- 16:22:41 [glenn]
- ... answer is yes, it is an accessibility related issue
- 16:22:52 [glenn]
- ... as are many other issues on status page posted above
- 16:22:57 [glenn]
- ack yang
- 16:23:06 [glenn]
- Topic: Other Business
- 16:23:14 [glenn]
- ISSUE-189?
- 16:23:14 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-189 -- Prefix convention needs to be coordinated with IETF -- open
- 16:23:14 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/189
- 16:23:42 [glenn]
- mjs: CP was revised as requested by chairs, now have gone to survey
- 16:23:44 [Zakim]
- - +1.818.370.aaaa
- 16:23:52 [glenn]
- ... some questions about IETF coordination, but will proceed
- 16:23:55 [glenn]
- ISSUE-201?
- 16:23:55 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-201 -- Provide canvas location and hit testing capability to fallback content -- open
- 16:23:55 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/201
- 16:24:19 [glenn]
- mjs: two proposals now with slightly different variants
- 16:24:29 [glenn]
- ... from hober and SF
- 16:24:32 [glenn]
- ... q/c?
- 16:24:59 [glenn]
- ISSUE-204?
- 16:24:59 [trackbot]
- ISSUE-204 -- Exempt ARIA attributes from the rule that prohibits reference to hidden elements -- open
- 16:24:59 [trackbot]
- http://www.w3.org/html/wg/tracker/issues/204
- 16:25:34 [glenn]
- mjs: seems to have material differences in CPs
- 16:26:12 [glenn]
- hober: JF and I went back and forth on this
- 16:26:25 [glenn]
- ... have gotten closer, hope to find compromise wording
- 16:26:35 [glenn]
- ... a little more work to get agreement with JF
- 16:26:37 [yang]
- q+
- 16:26:58 [glenn]
- janina: would be happiest if we can reach consensus on language
- 16:27:16 [glenn]
- ... not sure how to move in that direction, would be good if hober can move this
- 16:27:39 [glenn]
- ... great concern is there are large # of disabled users not using screen readers
- 16:27:50 [glenn]
- ... problems with tab approach
- 16:28:00 [glenn]
- ... probably not meeting all use cases
- 16:28:17 [laura]
- "Every good-faith effort has been made here, and if at this time you and Jonas are still unprepared to endorse the V4 CP, then I will ask the Accessibility Task Force for their endorsement of the V4 CP and ask that the Chairs proceed with a WBS survey on Issue 204." - John Foliot, June 29.
- 16:28:17 [laura]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jun/0176.html
- 16:28:24 [glenn]
- mjs: yang on queue
- 16:28:47 [mjs]
- ack yang
- 16:28:59 [glenn]
- yang: why does ARIA need to see hidden element?
- 16:29:25 [glenn]
- worried about breaking service logic
- 16:29:28 [yang]
- why let ARIA see the hidden, it will ruin the JS dynamic service logic
- 16:29:39 [glenn]
- s/worried/... worried/
- 16:30:19 [glenn]
- hober: thinks what yang is asking is whether elements that are hidden, with visibility toggled from script
- 16:30:30 [glenn]
- ... shouldn't propose a problem for ARIA attributes
- 16:30:53 [glenn]
- ... should be OK
- 16:31:05 [glenn]
- s/propose/pose/
- 16:31:23 [glenn]
- yang: if disabled users use ARIA, then they can see hidden elements?
- 16:31:58 [glenn]
- ... does ARIA differentiate between hidden and not hidden?
- 16:32:44 [yang]
- can user see the difference by aria for hidden and not-hidden?
- 16:32:47 [glenn]
- mjs: suggests taking this discussion offline
- 16:32:58 [glenn]
- ... or discuss on ML
- 16:32:58 [paulc]
- Yang could also attend the A11Y TF meeting
- 16:33:01 [glenn]
- yang: ok
- 16:33:18 [glenn]
- Using ARIA in HTML
- 16:33:18 [glenn]
- http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html/2012Jun/0165.html
- 16:33:33 [yang]
- any A11Y TF conference call information?
- 16:33:52 [glenn]
- mjs: any q/c about this document (Using AREA in HTML)?
- 16:34:20 [glenn]
- glenn: what is intended purpose of this doc? for info only?
- 16:34:29 [hober]
- s/AREA/ARIA/
- 16:35:02 [glenn]
- paulc: intent is to fill in gaps, more readable
- 16:35:07 [glenn]
- ... less jargon
- 16:35:21 [icaaq]
- icaaq has joined #html-wg
- 16:35:46 [paulc]
- From 0165.html: "My intention is to provide a non normative resource that fills in the gaps in the current HTML5 specification and a document that is more readable (i.e. less jargonist)"
- 16:35:51 [glenn]
- glenn: thanks, yes
- 16:36:22 [glenn]
- paulc: points out that it does deviate from HTML5
- 16:36:54 [glenn]
- glenn: do we need further action by WG?
- 16:38:10 [trackbot]
- trackbot has joined #html-wg
- 16:38:29 [glenn]
- paulc: at present, author is requesting feedback
- 16:38:39 [glenn]
- ... no specific actions for WG at this time
- 16:38:42 [icaaq]
- icaaq has joined #html-wg
- 16:39:35 [glenn]
- paulc: there is a bugzilla component for this...
- 16:39:46 [paulc]
- Bugzilla component and link: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/enter_bug.cgi?product=HTML%20WG&component=Using%20ARIA%20in%20HTML
- 16:40:34 [glenn]
- glenn: asks janina if A11Y TF has any position on this document
- 16:40:43 [glenn]
- janina: not at this time, has not discussed
- 16:41:00 [glenn]
- ... there is a group in TF working on mapping
- 16:41:09 [glenn]
- ... so unclear
- 16:41:15 [glenn]
- ... TF needs to discuss
- 16:41:36 [glenn]
- Topic: AOB?
- 16:41:50 [paulc]
- q+
- 16:42:16 [glenn]
- paulc: wants to report that group of members dealing with work on media proposal
- 16:42:21 [glenn]
- ... continue to meet on weekly basis
- 16:42:35 [glenn]
- ... significant advances on both EME and MSE proposals
- 16:42:36 [paulc]
- EME minutes: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2012Jul/0034.html
- 16:42:48 [glenn]
- ... substantial changes to both interfaces to be more O-O
- 16:43:18 [glenn]
- ... any one interested in that work should contact paulc
- 16:43:27 [glenn]
- ... also see public-html-media archive
- 16:44:01 [glenn]
- Topic: Scribe for Next Meeting
- 16:44:04 [glenn]
- ack paulc
- 16:44:13 [glenn]
- mjs: any volunteers
- 16:44:22 [paulc]
- Paul will be chairing
- 16:44:32 [glenn]
- Ted volunteers. Paul C will chair.
- 16:44:39 [Zakim]
- -mjs
- 16:44:40 [Zakim]
- - +1.415.832.aabb
- 16:44:42 [Zakim]
- -[Microsoft]
- 16:44:42 [Zakim]
- -krisk
- 16:44:44 [Zakim]
- -MIke
- 16:44:44 [Zakim]
- -Janina
- 16:44:44 [janina]
- janina has left #html-wg
- 16:44:46 [Zakim]
- -hober
- 16:44:46 [glenn]
- Topic: Adjournment
- 16:44:50 [glenn]
- mjs: adjourned
- 16:44:51 [Zakim]
- -yang
- 16:44:55 [glenn]
- ... see you next wek
- 16:44:56 [Zakim]
- -Sam
- 16:44:58 [Zakim]
- -[Microsoft.aa]
- 16:45:01 [Zakim]
- -Laura_Carlson
- 16:45:07 [paulc]
- zakim, list attendees
- 16:45:07 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been glenn, yang, Sam, Janina, eliot, [Microsoft], paulc, Radhika_Roy, ddorwin, Laura_Carlson, mjs, krisk, hober, adrianba, frankolivier,
- 16:45:11 [Zakim]
- ... +1.818.370.aaaa, MIke, +1.415.832.aabb
- 16:45:18 [glenn]
- s/wek/week/
- 16:45:46 [glenn]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 16:45:46 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/12-html-wg-minutes.html glenn
- 16:45:47 [Zakim]
- -[Microsoft.a]
- 16:46:12 [glenn]
- zakim, who's on phone?
- 16:46:12 [Zakim]
- I don't understand your question, glenn.
- 16:46:19 [glenn]
- zakim, who's on the phone?
- 16:46:19 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see glenn, Radhika_Roy, ddorwin
- 16:46:37 [Zakim]
- -glenn
- 16:48:24 [laura]
- laura has joined #html-wg
- 16:49:49 [glenn]
- trackbot, end meeting
- 16:49:49 [trackbot]
- Zakim, list attendees
- 16:49:49 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been glenn, yang, Sam, Janina, eliot, [Microsoft], paulc, Radhika_Roy, ddorwin, Laura_Carlson, mjs, krisk, hober, adrianba, frankolivier,
- 16:49:52 [Zakim]
- ... +1.818.370.aaaa, MIke, +1.415.832.aabb
- 16:49:57 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 16:49:57 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/12-html-wg-minutes.html trackbot
- 16:49:58 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 16:49:58 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items