16:56:58 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #indie-ui
16:56:58 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/07/11-indie-ui-irc
16:57:03 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make log world
16:59:01 <Zakim> Team_(indie-ui)17:00Z has now started
16:59:09 <Zakim> +Doug_Schepers
16:59:20 <Zakim> +Cooper
16:59:26 <janina> janina has joined #indie-ui
16:59:27 <Zakim> +??P12
16:59:50 <janina> zakim, ??P12 is Janina_Sajka
16:59:50 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
17:00:19 <Zakim> +[Apple]
17:00:24 <hober> Zakim, Apple has me
17:00:24 <Zakim> +hober; got it
17:01:28 <janina> Meeting: IndieUI Task Force telecon
17:01:28 <janina> Chair: Janina_Sajka
17:01:28 <janina> agenda+ Admin Update: Repository; Tracker; Work Statement CFC; TPAC
17:01:28 <janina> agenda+ Recruiting Update; Polling for Telecon Time?
17:01:28 <janina> agenda+ Use Cases Progress; Discussion?
17:01:31 <janina> agenda+ Events Module from Apple; Discussion?
17:01:33 <janina> agenda+ User Preferences Proposal -- Rich Schwerdtfeger & Andy Heath
17:01:36 <janina> agenda+ Scribe for our Next Teleconference (on 25 July)
17:01:38 <janina> agenda+ Be Done
17:02:18 <janina>  zakim, who's here?
17:02:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see Doug_Schepers, Cooper, Janina_Sajka, [Apple]
17:02:19 <Zakim> [Apple] has hober
17:02:19 <Zakim> On IRC I see janina, RRSAgent, Zakim, hober, smaug_, MichaelC, ArtB, shepazu, trackbot
17:02:34 <richardschwerdtfe> richardschwerdtfe has joined #indie-ui
17:02:41 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2012Jul/0006.html
17:02:47 <MichaelC> chair: Janina_Sajka
17:03:38 <Zakim> +Art_Barstow
17:04:00 <Zakim> +??P2
17:04:11 <clown> clown has joined #indie-ui
17:04:14 <Zakim> +Rich
17:04:22 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P2 is Andy_Heath
17:04:22 <Zakim> +Andy_Heath; got it
17:04:31 <MichaelC> zakim, mute andy
17:04:31 <Zakim> Andy_Heath should now be muted
17:05:37 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
17:05:47 <clown> zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:05:52 <andy> andy has joined #indie-ui
17:06:08 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
17:06:13 <clown> zakim, I am on the phone.
17:06:20 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:06:23 <Zakim> +[Apple.a]
17:06:27 <Zakim> I don't understand 'I am on the phone', clown
17:06:29 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:06:39 <janina> zakim, pick a victim
17:06:39 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Doug_Schpers
17:06:48 <MichaelC> zakim, Apple.a is James_Craig
17:06:48 <Zakim> +James_Craig; got it
17:07:17 <jcraig> jcraig has joined #indie-ui
17:07:41 <ArtB> Scribe: ArtB
17:07:43 <andy> its a technical term
17:07:47 <ArtB> ScribeNick: ArtB
17:07:57 <jcraig> Zakim, who is on the phone?
17:07:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see Doug_Schepers, Cooper, Janina_Sajka, [Apple], Art_Barstow, Andy_Heath (muted), Rich, Joseph_Scheuhammer, James_Craig
17:07:59 <Zakim> [Apple] has hober
17:08:14 <ArtB> Present: Janina, Doug, Michael, Andy, Joseph, James
17:08:33 <ArtB> Topic: Admin
17:08:45 <ArtB> JS: is trackbot ready?
17:08:51 <ArtB> MC: still working on it
17:09:11 <jcraig> Zakim, disconnect James_Craig
17:09:11 <Zakim> James_Craig is being disconnected
17:09:12 <ArtB> … also working on hg repo
17:09:12 <Zakim> -James_Craig
17:09:37 <ArtB> MC: we are waiting for submissions
17:09:46 <ArtB> … the call was made
17:09:59 <ArtB> … have received some input re UCs
17:10:08 <ArtB> JS: July 15 is the deadline for proposals
17:10:23 <ArtB> … James, what's the status of your doc?
17:10:36 <ArtB> [ JC dropped off ]
17:10:46 <ArtB> MC: James put a version in the PF space
17:10:58 <Zakim> +[Apple.a]
17:11:00 <ArtB> … not sure if that becomes an ED for this TF
17:11:11 <MichaelC> zakim, Apple.a is James_Craig
17:11:11 <Zakim> +James_Craig; got it
17:11:40 <ArtB> JC: waiting for respec conversion
17:11:49 <ArtB> … we should use that version
17:12:10 <ArtB> MC: the respec conversion isn't complete
17:12:16 <jcraig> Zakim, [Apple.a] has jcraig
17:12:16 <Zakim> sorry, jcraig, I do not recognize a party named '[Apple.a]'
17:12:38 <andy> zakim unmute Andy
17:12:39 <ArtB> MC: given the CfP, not clear if we should wait until the proposal deadline
17:12:47 <ArtB> … or start with James' input now
17:13:06 <jcraig> Zakim, James_Craig is [Apple]
17:13:06 <Zakim> +[Apple]; got it
17:13:10 <ArtB> MC: I think the ED should be a consensus version
17:13:14 <jcraig> Zakim, Apple has jcraig
17:13:14 <Zakim> +jcraig; got it
17:13:19 <ArtB> … I could put a copy of James' doc in the wiki
17:13:24 <shepazu> q+
17:13:31 <andy> what's the syntax for unmute pls ?
17:13:51 <jcraig> Zakim, umute Andy_Heath
17:13:51 <Zakim> I don't understand 'umute Andy_Heath', jcraig
17:13:58 <ArtB> DS: I tend to think EDs may not necessarily reflect consensus of the group
17:14:12 <ArtB> … and consensus is for TR versions
17:14:12 <jcraig> Zakim, unmute Andy_Heath
17:14:12 <Zakim> Andy_Heath should no longer be muted
17:14:20 <andy> ty
17:14:29 <andy> Zakim, mute Andy_Heath
17:14:29 <Zakim> Andy_Heath should now be muted
17:14:58 <ArtB> … I suggest we start with an ED with some substance
17:15:07 <richardschwerdtfe> q+
17:15:27 <ArtB> JS: we have a proposal but no consensus yet
17:15:44 <ArtB> … what I hear is we can put the proposal in the ED now and mark it as such
17:15:58 <ArtB> … and state it doesn't reflect consensus
17:16:14 <ArtB> MC: we need one ED 
17:16:22 <ArtB> … and proposals get put into the wiki
17:16:37 <ArtB> … not clear how we manage multiple versions
17:16:39 <ArtB> q+
17:16:58 <ArtB> DS: can use tags, etc.
17:17:06 <ArtB> RS: expect multiple specs
17:17:14 <ArtB> JS: yes, agree we have at least two specs
17:17:50 <janina> q?
17:18:00 <janina> ack a
17:18:36 <ArtB> AB: I think we should just agree that James' proposal becomes the ED
17:18:47 <ArtB> DS: agree
17:19:07 <ArtB> RS: that's ok with me
17:19:20 <ArtB> MC: some of James' spec has Events and some is Context
17:19:30 <ArtB> … I could just put the events part in the Events ED
17:19:49 <janina> Art, that was James Craig
17:20:49 <ArtB> [ James and Michael talked about how to manage the source code for the Events spec … ]
17:21:27 <ArtB> MC: respec has some challenges re versions
17:21:38 <ArtB> JC: I'm willing to review what you have Michael
17:22:30 <ArtB> DS: not sure I understand the version issues
17:22:39 <janina> q?
17:22:42 <ArtB> … the doc just needs to clearly state the status 
17:23:03 <ArtB> MC: my pref is to use the wiki for docs that don't have consensus
17:23:28 <ArtB> DS: I expect each Editor to handle the source control work
17:23:36 <jcraig> s/I understand the version issues/I understand the reluctance to commit a draft that is clearly marked as draft w/o group consensus/
17:23:37 <ArtB> JS: I think Doug can help us manage this
17:24:13 <ArtB> ACTION: Michael post the Apple proposals into the source code repo
17:24:13 <trackbot> Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
17:24:20 <janina> ack s
17:24:22 <ArtB> ack
17:24:26 <janina> ack r
17:24:52 <ArtB> Topic: Work Statement
17:25:06 <ArtB> JS: please see the Work Statement Call for Consensus
17:25:14 <ArtB> and reply by July 18 at the latest
17:25:22 <ArtB> AB: looks OK to me!
17:25:26 <ArtB> Topic: TPAC
17:25:39 <ArtB> JS: we set aside time for us at TPAC
17:25:47 <ArtB> … Thursday and Friday that week
17:26:39 <ArtB> JS: there may be a meeting just for Indie UI WG members
17:26:47 <ArtB> … and not necessarily include people in this TF
17:27:43 <ArtB> … the Indie UI WG may need to have some meetings
17:27:49 <ArtB> Topic: Recruiting Update
17:28:01 <ArtB> JS: anything we are waiting for?
17:28:15 <ArtB> … we got a new member today (University of Manchester)
17:28:22 <ArtB> … how about Mozilla?
17:29:27 <ArtB> AB: last I heard they were interested but had not indentified a specific person
17:29:33 <ArtB> JC: anyone from Google on this call?
17:29:36 <ArtB> [ silence ]
17:29:44 <ArtB> JS: would be good to get Mozilla
17:30:05 <ArtB> ACTION: ArtB follow-up with Mozilla re joining the Indie UI TF
17:30:05 <trackbot> Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
17:30:18 <ArtB> Topic: Conference Call Time
17:30:34 <ArtB> JS: we have folks in Asia that want to join our calls
17:30:47 <ArtB> … we can have a poll
17:31:01 <ArtB> … although we know there will always be some pain for someone
17:31:18 <andy> Zakim, unmute Andy_Heath
17:31:18 <Zakim> Andy_Heath should no longer be muted
17:31:37 <ArtB> [ Janina educates Doug about the world being round ;-) ]
17:31:50 <ArtB> JS: anything else re recruiting?
17:31:56 <clown> q+ 
17:32:23 <ArtB> JC: please include timezone in the poll
17:33:04 <ArtB> … we need to be careful about changing the time for 1-2 people especially if they aren't regular participants
17:33:15 <ArtB> … would be willing to do a rotating time
17:33:32 <ArtB> … f.ex. once per month
17:33:52 <jcraig> or on a case-by-case basis
17:34:03 <clown> Zakim. ack me
17:34:04 <ArtB> Joe: I need to follow up with some people
17:34:23 <clown> ack me
17:34:24 <ArtB> DS: I think we can expect more participants once we have an ED to share/show
17:34:59 <ArtB> … it's amazing how an ED can be used to get feedback ;-)
17:35:15 <jcraig> s/Joe:/clown:/
17:36:00 <ArtB> ACTION: janina create a poll for voice conference time + day of week
17:36:00 <trackbot> Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
17:36:22 <jcraig> s/clown/Joseph/
17:36:32 <ArtB> Topic: Events Module from Apple
17:36:43 <ArtB> JS: James gave a preso during the last call
17:36:47 <ArtB> … any followups?
17:36:53 <ArtB> [ silence ]
17:37:33 <ArtB> Topic: Use Cases Proposal
17:37:42 <ArtB> JS: anything to discuss re Use Cases
17:37:51 <ArtB> … some inputs from at least Rich
17:37:57 <ArtB> … and questions, concerns, etc?
17:38:15 <ArtB> DS: Rich and I talked about UCs and Requirements
17:38:27 <ArtB> RS: I've contributed quite a few 
17:38:33 <ArtB> … there are about 30 UCs now
17:38:48 <ArtB> DS: the UCs are good for discussion
17:38:56 <ArtB> … especially to start a conversation
17:39:11 <ArtB> JS: yes, everyone has an action to read the UCs
17:39:19 <ArtB> … and submit comments
17:39:33 <ArtB> … be able to point to the UCs when we talk outside of the TF
17:39:43 <ArtB> Topic: User Preferences Proposal
17:39:50 <ArtB> RS: I am preparing a doc now
17:40:00 <ArtB> … there is a lot going on in this space
17:40:11 <ArtB> … the Education space is doing some lead work
17:40:19 <ArtB> … Access for All is a collection of specs
17:40:25 <ArtB> … one defines User Prefs
17:40:38 <ArtB> … and another is Personal Prefs
17:40:50 <ArtB> … want to match content to user prefs
17:41:17 <ArtB> … APIP 
17:41:25 <jcraig> http://www.imsglobal.org/apip/index.html
17:41:26 <ArtB> [ missed what APIP stands for ]
17:41:34 <jcraig> Accessible Portable Item Protocol (APIP)
17:42:00 <ArtB> RS: some tech terms get missed by voice recognizers
17:42:28 <ArtB> … Libraries, Teachers using this work
17:42:41 <ArtB> JS: Access for All starts in Canada
17:43:11 <ArtB> RS: Global * is using A4All work
17:43:27 <ArtB> … using device capabilities
17:43:35 <ArtB> … need a vocab 
17:43:44 <ArtB> … and let web app know when a feature changes
17:44:06 <ArtB> … For example, a room gets noisy and the Web app will then automatically turn on captions
17:44:17 <jcraig> q+ to mention we'll probably need an event for "user preference change"
17:44:29 <janina> q?
17:44:49 <ArtB> RS: I want to get everyone familiar with these 3 areas
17:45:11 <ArtB> JS: IMS is helping here
17:45:22 <ArtB> Andy: Instructional Management Systems
17:45:38 <ArtB> RS: they do content packaging for learning modules
17:46:23 <ArtB> Andy: GPII
17:46:39 <ArtB> … ISO has done relevant work here too
17:47:13 <ArtB> … this is a large space so getting info into an ED is non-trivial
17:47:32 <janina> ack jc
17:47:32 <Zakim> jcraig, you wanted to mention we'll probably need an event for "user preference change"
17:47:40 <ArtB> JC: re coordination between the two specs
17:47:48 <ArtB> … there may be something about font changes
17:48:51 <janina> q?
17:49:23 <ArtB> Andy: this is not just education sector
17:49:39 <ArtB> … it's just that this technology is needed in that sector
17:49:57 <ArtB> … expect this to be applicable outside of education 
17:50:34 <ArtB> JS: yes, agree. Historically, there were national requirements for education.
17:51:23 <jcraig> Action: jcraig to verify drafts cover a way for web apps to be notified when user pref changes (e.g. font size, enabling captions) based on explicit user action or UA heuristics like ambient noise level changes, either an event and/or a method.
17:51:23 <trackbot> Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
17:52:03 <shepazu> Agenda+ Point of Regard
17:52:04 <ArtB> RS: Global Public Inclusive Infrastructure
17:52:21 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/wiki/Focus_and_Point_of_Regard
17:52:51 <ArtB> DS: re Point of Regard, I put some info in the above wiki
17:52:58 <ArtB> … got definitions from a few places
17:53:20 <ArtB> … PoR definitions are descriptive and not functional
17:53:37 <ArtB> … Need functional definition for UAs like browsers
17:53:58 <ArtB> … Think this could be important to clarify the definitions
17:54:31 <Zakim> -[Apple.a]
17:54:43 <ArtB> … This PoR wiki is a place holder for now
17:55:07 <ArtB> … but would like some feedback about a functional definition of PoR
17:55:30 <janina> q?
17:55:40 <ArtB> … For example, PoR could mention focus 
17:56:13 <ArtB> Clown: great idea
17:56:24 <ArtB> RS: please post to the list when you have something for us to review
17:56:27 <ArtB> DS: ok; will do
17:56:46 <ArtB> ACTION: doug notify the list when the PoR wiki is ready for review 
17:56:46 <trackbot> Sorry... I don't know anything about this channel
17:58:08 <ArtB> DS: curious about the term PoR versus Regard or Regard Point
17:58:19 <ArtB> Clown: screen readers use "cursor"
17:59:14 <ArtB> Topic: Be Done
17:59:21 <ArtB> JS: next call is July 25
17:59:33 <ArtB> … same time
17:59:43 <Zakim> -Rich
17:59:46 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:59:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/11-indie-ui-minutes.html ArtB
17:59:59 <Zakim> -[Apple]
18:00:04 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make log Public
18:00:14 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
18:00:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/11-indie-ui-minutes.html ArtB
18:00:32 <ArtB> zakim, who is here?
18:00:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see Doug_Schepers, Cooper, Janina_Sajka, Art_Barstow, Andy_Heath, Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:00:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see jcraig, andy, clown, richardschwerdtfe, janina, RRSAgent, Zakim, hober, smaug_, MichaelC, ArtB, shepazu, trackbot
18:00:43 <richardschwerdtfe> richardschwerdtfe has left #indie-ui
18:02:00 <ArtB> Present: James_Craig, Andy_Heath, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Art_Barstow, Doug_Schepers, Michael_Cooper
18:02:06 <ArtB> Chair: Janina
18:02:12 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
18:02:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/11-indie-ui-minutes.html ArtB
18:08:47 <ArtB> Present+ Edward_OConnor
18:08:53 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
18:08:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/11-indie-ui-minutes.html ArtB
18:10:19 <hober> :)
18:10:49 <ArtB> Present+ Janina_Sajka
18:10:58 <ArtB> RRSAgent, make minutes
18:10:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/11-indie-ui-minutes.html ArtB
18:11:17 <Zakim> -Cooper
18:11:27 <Zakim> -Art_Barstow
18:21:07 <ArtB> RRSAgent, bye
18:21:07 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/11-indie-ui-actions.rdf :
18:21:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Michael post the Apple proposals into the source code repo [1]
18:21:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/11-indie-ui-irc#T17-24-13
18:21:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ArtB follow-up with Mozilla re joining the Indie UI TF [2]
18:21:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/11-indie-ui-irc#T17-30-05
18:21:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: janina create a poll for voice conference time + day of week [3]
18:21:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/11-indie-ui-irc#T17-36-00
18:21:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: jcraig to verify drafts cover a way for web apps to be notified when user pref changes (e.g. font size, enabling captions) based on explicit user action or UA heuristics like ambient noise level changes, either an event and/or a method. [4]
18:21:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/11-indie-ui-irc#T17-51-23
18:21:07 <RRSAgent> ACTION: doug notify the list when the PoR wiki is ready for review  [5]
18:21:07 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2012/07/11-indie-ui-irc#T17-56-46