IRC log of wcag2ict on 2012-07-10

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:49:26 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/07/10-wcag2ict-irc
13:49:28 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
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Zakim, this will be 2428
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ok, trackbot; I see WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM scheduled to start in 11 minutes
13:49:31 [trackbot]
Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
13:49:31 [trackbot]
Date: 10 July 2012
13:49:45 [Andi]
chair: Andi_Snow-Weaver
13:52:42 [Andi]
agenda+ Re-survey on 2.4.2 Page Titled https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/JUL102012/results
13:53:22 [Andi]
agenda+ Draft proposed edits to WCAG 2.0 resolution on 1.3.1 Info and Relationships http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag2ict-tf/2012Jul/0029.html
13:53:50 [Andi]
agenda+ Summary of WCAG 2.0 decision on SC we sent for their review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag2ict-tf/2012Jul/0031.html
13:54:04 [Andi]
agenda+ Confirm next meeting time; action items;
13:56:49 [Zakim]
WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has now started
13:56:56 [Zakim]
+Andi_Snow_Weaver
13:57:12 [MaryJo]
MaryJo has joined #wcag2ict
13:58:15 [korn]
korn has joined #wcag2ict
13:59:05 [Zakim]
+??P3
13:59:16 [Loic]
Loic has joined #wcag2ict
13:59:30 [Andi]
zakim, ??P3 is Gregg_Vanderheiden
13:59:30 [Zakim]
+Gregg_Vanderheiden; got it
13:59:31 [Zakim]
+Cooper
13:59:33 [greggvanderheiden]
greggvanderheiden has joined #wcag2ict
13:59:44 [Zakim]
+[Oracle]
13:59:51 [Zakim]
+??P6
13:59:53 [korn]
zakim, Oracle has Peter
13:59:53 [Zakim]
+Peter; got it
13:59:58 [Zakim]
+David_MacDonald
14:00:00 [korn]
zakim, Oracle has Peter_Korn
14:00:00 [Zakim]
+Peter_Korn; got it
14:00:09 [Zakim]
+Mary_Jo_Mueller
14:00:28 [Andi]
zakim, ??P6 is Loïc_Martínez_Normand
14:00:28 [Zakim]
+Loïc_Martínez_Normand; got it
14:00:32 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
14:00:40 [Zakim]
+Kiran_Keja
14:00:40 [Mike]
Mike has joined #wcag2ict
14:00:44 [MichaelC]
zakim, Microsoft is Alex_Li
14:00:44 [Zakim]
+Alex_Li; got it
14:00:57 [Zakim]
+Bruce_Bailey
14:01:26 [janina]
janina has joined #wcag2ict
14:01:34 [Zakim]
+??P15
14:01:35 [BBailey]
BBailey has joined #wcag2ict
14:01:37 [Andi]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:01:37 [Zakim]
On the phone I see Andi_Snow_Weaver, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Cooper, [Oracle], Loïc_Martínez_Normand, David_MacDonald, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Alex_Li, Kiran_Keja, Bruce_Bailey, ??P15
14:01:37 [Zakim]
[Oracle] has Peter_Korn
14:01:48 [MichaelC]
zakim, ??P15 is Mike_Pluke
14:01:48 [Zakim]
+Mike_Pluke; got it
14:01:49 [Zakim]
+Al_Hoffman
14:02:09 [alex_]
alex_ has joined #wcag2ict
14:02:28 [Kiran]
Kiran has joined #wcag2ict
14:02:39 [Zakim]
+??P17
14:02:41 [Andi]
scribe: MaryJo
14:02:46 [MichaelC]
zakim, ??P17 is Janina_Sajka
14:02:46 [Zakim]
+Janina_Sajka; got it
14:03:11 [Andi]
zakin, next item
14:03:27 [MichaelC]
zakim, next item
14:03:27 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Re-survey on 2.4.2 Page Titled https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/JUL102012/results" taken up [from Andi]
14:03:41 [Zakim]
-Al_Hoffman
14:04:28 [Zakim]
+Al_Hoffman
14:05:32 [Andi]
For documents this applies directly as written, and as described in INTENT from Understanding WCAG 2.0 (above) with the word “document” substituted for Web Page.
14:06:00 [korn]
For software user interfaces, the precise analog to "web page" in the context of this success criterion is difficult to define. However, since there is almost always a single user interface component associated with top-most explicit groupings of user interface components (things like "windows", "dialog boxes", "frames", and "screens"), and since 4.1.2 requires that every user interface component has a programmatically determined name, conforming to
14:06:09 [Andi]
Pierce's edit: Note: A document's filename, as well as its title attribute, are both considered types of titles. While the filename is more universally presented by assistive technologies, the title attribute is more formally correct.
14:06:53 [korn]
q+
14:07:01 [MaryJo]
PK: Pierce's change to reverse the 2nd sentence looks fine, and Loic's edits look fine too.
14:07:09 [Andi]
q+
14:07:14 [Andi]
ack korn
14:07:19 [Andi]
q-
14:07:21 [alex_]
q+
14:07:50 [alex_]
q-
14:07:53 [MaryJo]
GV: Concerned about ordering of whether to provide title or file name first - one is supported by AT's more and one is more formally correct. Want to make sure we give the right advice.
14:09:18 [Andi]
q+ David_MacDonald
14:09:22 [Andi]
ack david
14:09:25 [MaryJo]
PK: Can make it clear that doing both increases the chances of this SC being met. Need to come up with right words.
14:10:03 [Zakim]
-Gregg_Vanderheiden
14:10:21 [Mike]
q+
14:10:26 [greggvanderheid-1]
greggvanderheid-1 has joined #wcag2ict
14:11:04 [MaryJo]
Al: Filenames aren't really aren't equivalent to the proper provision of a title, which is the point Pierce is making.
14:11:20 [Zakim]
+??P3
14:11:40 [Andi]
zakim, ??P3 is Gregg_Vanderheiden
14:11:40 [Zakim]
+Gregg_Vanderheiden; got it
14:11:48 [Andi]
ack mike
14:12:04 [Loic]
q+
14:12:10 [korn]
q+
14:12:16 [MaryJo]
MP: There are often more limitations on file names, so the title is preferrable.
14:12:46 [greggvanderheid-1]
Q+
14:13:06 [Andi]
ack loic
14:13:20 [Andi]
ack korn
14:13:49 [MaryJo]
Loic: Most people are comfortable with making short file names meaningful.
14:14:31 [MaryJo]
PK: If there are a large number of documents being named, it is difficult to name the files so they are easy to distinguish from each other in a meaningful way.
14:14:41 [greggvanderheid-1]
ACK g
14:14:53 [Andi]
Note: A document's filename, as well as its title attribute, are both considered types of titles. While the filename is more universally presented by assistive technologies, the title attribute is more formally correct. Using both provides the best accessibility support.
14:15:31 [David]
David has joined #wcag2ict
14:15:59 [janina]
+1 to gv's proposal
14:18:18 [Andi]
Note: A document's filename, as well as its title attribute, are both considered types of titles. While the filename is more universally presented by assistive technologies, the title attribute is more formally correct. Using both provides the best chance of being accessible to the user.
14:18:21 [MaryJo]
Alex: 'Accessibility support' is a concept we haven't discussed yet in the task force and not a term we have defined.
14:18:45 [Andi]
Note: A document's filename, as well as its title attribute, are both considered types of titles. While the filename is more universally presented by assistive technologies, the title attribute is more formally correct. Using both provides the best chance of being accessible to a user.
14:19:08 [Andi]
Note: A document's filename, as well as its title attribute, are both considered types of titles. While the filename is more universally presented by assistive technologies, the title attribute is more formally correct. Using both provides the best chance of being accessible to different users.
14:19:15 [janina]
Or "greater liklihood" ?
14:19:43 [korn]
+1
14:19:54 [Andi]
RESOLUTION: accept note for 2.4.2 as amended
14:21:05 [MaryJo]
AS: Loic's edit for the software part of 2.4.2.
14:21:07 [Zakim]
-Mike_Pluke
14:21:16 [korn]
q+
14:21:28 [Zakim]
+??P15
14:21:52 [Mike]
q+
14:22:27 [MichaelC]
zakim, ??P15 is Mike_Pluke
14:22:27 [Zakim]
+Mike_Pluke; got it
14:22:36 [Loic]
q+
14:22:54 [MaryJo]
GV: Fundamental difference in this edit is that it implies we know which part needs naming - the topmost grouping.
14:24:01 [Andi]
ack korn
14:25:57 [greggvanderheid-1]
q+
14:26:13 [korn]
q+
14:27:23 [MaryJo]
Loic: Would really like to see 'interaction context' in the first sentence. In lieu of using that term, thinks that 'top-most explicit groupings of user interface components' is the closest match to that term in this context.
14:27:41 [David]
q+
14:28:21 [David]
q-
14:28:40 [Loic]
q-
14:28:42 [Andi]
friendly amendment to make it less verbose? "...conforming to 4.1.2 for the top-most explicit groupings of user interface components would thereby mean conformance to this success criterion if the name described its topic or purpose."
14:28:47 [Andi]
ack mike
14:28:47 [MaryJo]
MP: We don't want to say this SC is redundant, as 4.1.2 does cover the need for a name, but doesn't cover the aspect of it being a meaningful or descriptive name.
14:28:49 [Andi]
ack gregg
14:30:07 [MaryJo]
GV: We can make an edit to this to emphasize this aspect. Since you made a name in 4.1.2, if you make the name descriptive then you satisfy this SC.
14:30:16 [Andi]
"...conforming to 4.1.2 for the name of the top-most explicit groupings of user interface components would thereby mean conformance to this success criterion if the name described its topic or purpose."
14:30:57 [Loic]
q+
14:31:12 [Andi]
q+
14:31:43 [MaryJo]
GV: We need to determine which term to use: 'software aspects of prodcts', 'software user interfaces', etc.
14:33:01 [Andi]
ack korn
14:33:45 [Mike]
q+
14:34:16 [MaryJo]
PK: A lot of this SC has to do with finding a single web page out of a lot of Web pages. In the software world, there are typically less applications or windows to filter through to find the right one.
14:34:59 [MaryJo]
PK: Software use cases are different, so we need to have a good analog that makes sense.
14:35:46 [greggvanderheid-1]
For software user interfaces, the precise analog to "web page" in the context of this success criterion is difficult to define. However, since there is almost always a single user interface component associated with top-most explicit groupings of user interface components (things like "windows", "dialog boxes", "frames", and "screens"), and since 4.1.2 requires that every user interface component has a programmatically determined name,
14:35:47 [greggvanderheid-1]
conforming to 4.1.2 would thereby mean that is success criterion was met if the name for the user interface component associated with top-most explicit groupings of user interface components described its topic or purpose.
14:36:12 [greggvanderheid-1]
For software user interfaces, the precise analog to "web page" in the context of this success criterion is difficult to define. However, since there is almost always a single user interface component associated with top-most explicit groupings of user interface components (things like "windows", "dialog boxes", "frames", and "screens"), and since 4.1.2 requires that every user interface component has a programmatically determined name,
14:36:13 [greggvanderheid-1]
conforming to 4.1.2 would thereby mean that this success criterion was met if the name for the user interface component associated with top-most explicit groupings of user interface components described its topic or purpose.
14:36:24 [Andi]
ack loic
14:36:41 [MaryJo]
PK: We shouldn't be too precise in this, to make sure that future technologies can be covered without having to readress this SC.
14:37:11 [MaryJo]
Loic: Agrees with the above proposed text from Gregg.
14:37:58 [MaryJo]
Loic: This is only applicable to software that has a user interface, not DLL's, etc.
14:38:22 [korn]
"If the names of all explicit groupings of user interface components are descriptive of the title or purpose, it will certainly be the case that all of the top-most ones are"
14:39:48 [MaryJo]
AS: We have a work item to go back and look at the terms used to make them consistent throughout the document.
14:40:13 [Andi]
ack andi
14:40:17 [greggvanderheid-1]
q+
14:40:27 [Andi]
ack mike
14:40:28 [MaryJo]
AS: 'Product' term is a problem, because this SC should also apply to software developed in-house for internal use that is not productized.
14:40:50 [korn]
q+
14:41:14 [Andi]
ack gregg
14:42:11 [MichaelC]
MichaelC has joined #wcag2ict
14:42:39 [MaryJo]
GV: Agree that we do need to go back and revisit terms we came up with for the SCs to make them consistent.
14:42:59 [alex_]
alex_ has joined #wcag2ict
14:44:43 [greggvanderheid-1]
q+
14:44:47 [Andi]
since 4.1.2 requires that every user interface component has a programmatically determined name, conforming to 4.1.2 would thereby mean that this success criterion was met if the name for the user interface component associated with top-most explicit groupings of user interface components described its topic or purpose. If the names of all explicit groupings of user interface components are
14:44:47 [Andi]
descriptive of the title or purpose, it will certainly be the case that all of the top-most ones are.
14:45:26 [greggvanderheid-1]
+1
14:45:27 [Andi]
ack korn
14:45:32 [Loic]
+1
14:45:35 [greggvanderheid-1]
ack g
14:46:35 [Andi]
Amended in the meeting: For documents this applies directly as written, and as described in INTENT from Understanding WCAG 2.0 (above) with the word “document” substituted for Web Page.
14:47:20 [Andi]
Note: A document's filename, as well as its title attribute, are both considered types of titles. While the filename is more universally presented by assistive technologies, the title attribute is more formally correct. Using both provides the best chance of being accessible to different users.
14:47:49 [Andi]
For software user interfaces, the precise analog to "web page" in the context of this success criterion is difficult to define. However, since there is almost always a single user interface component associated with top-most explicit groupings of user interface components (things like "windows", "dialog boxes", "frames", and "screens"), and since 4.1.2 requires that every user interface
14:47:49 [Andi]
component has a programmatically determined name,
14:48:06 [Andi]
since 4.1.2 requires that every user interface component has a programmatically determined name, conforming to 4.1.2 would thereby mean that this success criterion was met if the name for the user interface component associated with top-most explicit groupings of user interface components described its topic or purpose. If the names of all explicit groupings of user interface components are
14:48:06 [Andi]
descriptive of the title or purpose, it will certainly be the case that all of the top-most ones are.
14:48:56 [Andi]
Note: Where the accessibility services of the platform include a description attribute in addition to a name attribute, the description attribute and the name attribute are often used together to provide both a short cue and longer description of the topic or purpose.
14:49:06 [MaryJo]
RESOLUTION: Accept 2.4.2 as amended in version #5.
14:49:30 [Andi]
zakim, next item
14:49:30 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Draft proposed edits to WCAG 2.0 resolution on 1.3.1 Info and Relationships http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag2ict-tf/2012Jul/0029.html" taken up [from
14:49:34 [Zakim]
... Andi]
14:49:45 [alex_]
q+
14:50:46 [Andi]
ack alex
14:53:49 [MaryJo]
Alex: Concerned that 2.4.2 text doesn't explicitly exclude command line interfaces where the concept of a 'page title' doesn't exist.
14:55:15 [Loic]
+1 to Peter. Only one screen there is nothing to look for.
14:56:00 [MaryJo]
PK: If multiple CLI windows are being used, the operating system is handling them.
14:56:43 [MaryJo]
AS: If this is important to use the SC and asses for CLI interfaces, we need to circle back at a later time with this in mind.
14:57:14 [greggvanderheid-1]
q+
14:57:56 [Andi]
ack gregg
14:58:06 [MaryJo]
AS: WCAG didn't accept the text exactly as we proposed, but did agree to put part of our proposal in. Peter and Al had concerns and the link points to 2 possible edits to what WCAG agreed to add.
14:58:50 [David]
zakim, who's noisy
14:58:50 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'who's noisy', David
14:59:08 [Zakim]
-Cooper
14:59:41 [MaryJo]
GV: Likes Andi's wording. Even though it is more verbose, it is clearer in meaning.
15:00:33 [korn]
q+
15:01:02 [korn]
q-
15:01:06 [Andi]
Sighted users perceive structure AND RELATIONSHIPS through various visual
15:01:06 [Andi]
cues — headings are often in a larger, bold font separated from paragraphs
15:01:06 [Andi]
by blank lines; list items are preceded by a bullet and perhaps indented;
15:01:06 [Andi]
paragraphs are separated by a blank line; form fields may be positioned as
15:01:06 [Andi]
groups that share text labels; a different background color may be used to
15:01:06 [Andi]
indicate that several items are related to each other; words that have
15:01:08 [Andi]
special status are indicated by changing the font family and /or bolding,
15:01:10 [Andi]
italicizing, or underlining them; ITEMS THAT SHARE A COMMON CHARACTERISTIC
15:01:12 [Andi]
ARE ORGANIZED INTO A TABLE WHERE THE RELATIONSHIP OF CELLS SHARING THE SAME
15:01:15 [Andi]
ROW OR COLUMN AND THE RELATIONSHIP OF EACH CELL TO ITS ROW AND/OR COLUMN
15:01:17 [Andi]
HEADER ARE NECESSARY FOR UNDERSTANDING; and so on. Having THESE structures
15:01:18 [Andi]
and relationships programmatically determined or available in text ensures
15:01:20 [Andi]
that information important for comprehension will be perceivable by all.
15:02:01 [David]
Zakim, who's making noise?
15:02:09 [MaryJo]
AS: Al or Pierce should try to attend the WCAG meeting to be there when the text is agreed upon or edited.
15:02:23 [Zakim]
David, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Andi_Snow_Weaver (27%), Gregg_Vanderheiden (13%), David_MacDonald (9%), Alex_Li (15%)
15:03:24 [greggvanderheid-1]
Sighted users perceive structure AND RELATIONSHIPS through various visual
15:03:25 [greggvanderheid-1]
cues — headings are often in a larger, bold font separated from paragraphs
15:03:26 [greggvanderheid-1]
by blank lines; list items are preceded by a bullet and perhaps indented;
15:03:28 [greggvanderheid-1]
paragraphs are separated by a blank line; form fields may be positioned as
15:03:28 [MaryJo]
RESOLUTION: Accept further modification to the Intent for 1.3.1 as proposed in the meeting.
15:03:29 [greggvanderheid-1]
groups that share text labels; a different background color may be used to
15:03:31 [greggvanderheid-1]
indicate that several items are related to each other; words that have
15:03:32 [greggvanderheid-1]
special status are indicated by changing the font family and /or bolding,
15:03:34 [greggvanderheid-1]
italicizing, or underlining them; ITEMS THAT SHARE A COMMON CHARACTERISTIC
15:03:35 [greggvanderheid-1]
ARE ORGANIZED INTO A TABLE WHERE THE RELATIONSHIP OF CELLS SHARING THE SAME
15:03:37 [greggvanderheid-1]
ROW OR COLUMN AND THE RELATIONSHIP OF EACH CELL TO ITS ROW AND/OR COLUMN
15:03:38 [greggvanderheid-1]
HEADER ARE NECESSARY FOR UNDERSTANDING; and so on. Having THESE structures
15:03:39 [greggvanderheid-1]
and relationships programmatically determined or available in text ensures
15:03:40 [greggvanderheid-1]
that information important for comprehension will be perceivable by all.
15:04:10 [Andi]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag2ict-tf/2012Jul/0029.html
15:04:34 [David]
Zakim, who's noisy?
15:04:45 [Zakim]
David, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Andi_Snow_Weaver (30%), Mary_Jo_Mueller (46%), Alex_Li (5%)
15:04:59 [Andi]
zakim, next item
15:04:59 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Summary of WCAG 2.0 decision on SC we sent for their review http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag2ict-tf/2012Jul/0031.html" taken up [from Andi]
15:05:42 [MaryJo]
RESOLUTION: Accept proposal #1 modification to the Intent for 1.3.1 from email http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag2ict-tf/2012Jul/0029.html.
15:06:04 [Andi]
https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/home/2-operable/21-make-all-functionality-available-from-a-keyboard/211-keyboard
15:06:43 [Andi]
Note: This does not imply that software must directly support OR PROVIDE a keyboard or "keyboard interface". UNDERLYING Platform software may provide device independent input services to applications that enable operation via a keyboard. Software that supports operation via such platform device independent services would be operable by a keyboard and would comply.
15:06:56 [Loic]
q+
15:07:16 [BBailey]
q+
15:07:35 [Andi]
ack loic
15:08:11 [greggvanderheid-1]
q+
15:08:16 [Andi]
ack bbailey
15:08:45 [Mike]
q+
15:08:50 [Andi]
ack gregg
15:09:21 [greggvanderheid-1]
ack g
15:09:28 [Andi]
ack mike
15:10:11 [Andi]
Note: This does not imply that software must directly support a keyboard or "keyboard interface" OR PROVIDE A SOFT KEYBOARD. UNDERLYING Platform software may provide device independent input services to applications that enable operation via a keyboard. Software that supports operation via such platform device independent services would be operable by a keyboard and would comply.
15:10:12 [korn]
q+
15:10:33 [Loic]
+1 To Andi's edit
15:10:38 [Andi]
ack korn
15:11:33 [MaryJo]
Loic: Concerned that 'provide a keyboard' would be misinterpreted as 'provide a hardware keyboard'.
15:12:11 [MaryJo]
PK: Propose we add this edit to our document and after public comment we can send this and any other further WCAG updates then.
15:12:20 [MaryJo]
Loic: Would prefer to send this to WCAG now.
15:12:34 [korn]
zakim, who is talking?
15:12:44 [Zakim]
korn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Gregg_Vanderheiden (93%), David_MacDonald (4%)
15:14:55 [Zakim]
-Gregg_Vanderheiden
15:15:16 [korn]
+1
15:15:24 [Mike]
+1
15:15:26 [Zakim]
+??P3
15:15:26 [Andi]
This does not imply that software must directly support a keyboard or "keyboard interface". NOR DOES IT REQUIRE THAT SOFTWARE PROVIDE A SOFT KEYBOARD. UNDERLYING Platform software may provide device independent input services to applications that enable operation via a keyboard. Software that supports operation via such platform device independent services would be operable by a keyboard
15:15:26 [Andi]
and would comply.
15:15:34 [Loic]
+1
15:15:47 [korn]
q+
15:15:50 [Andi]
zakim, ??P3 is Gregg_Vanderheiden
15:15:50 [Zakim]
+Gregg_Vanderheiden; got it
15:16:15 [Andi]
This does not imply that software must directly support a keyboard or "keyboard interface". NOR DOES IT IMPLY THAT SOFTWARE PROVIDE A SOFT KEYBOARD. UNDERLYING Platform software may provide device independent input services to applications that enable operation via a keyboard. Software that supports operation via such platform device independent services would be operable by a keyboard
15:16:15 [Andi]
and would comply.
15:16:58 [korn]
Again to be parallel, "... nor does it imply that software MUST PROVIDE a soft keyboard"
15:17:09 [Andi]
This does not imply that software must directly support a keyboard or "keyboard interface". NOR DOES IT IMPLY THAT SOFTWARE MUST PROVIDE A SOFT KEYBOARD. UNDERLYING Platform software may provide device independent input services to applications that enable operation via a keyboard. Software that supports operation via such platform device independent services would be operable by a keyboard
15:17:09 [Andi]
and would comply.
15:18:52 [MaryJo]
RESOLUTION: Send edit proposed in meeting for 2.1.1 to WCAG.
15:19:07 [Andi]
https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/home/2-operable/22-provide-users-enough-time-to-read-and-use-content/222-pause-stop-hide
15:19:57 [Andi]
Proposed: Note: While the success criteria uses the term "information", the WCAG 2.0 INTENT section makes it clear that this is to be applied to all content. Any content, whether informative or decorative, that blinks or moves creates a significant accessibility barrier for some users with cognitive, learning, and other disabilities."
15:20:18 [greggvanderheid-1]
Any content, whether informative or decorative, that IS UPDATED AUTOMATICALLY MAY CREATE AN ACCESSIBILITY BARRIER IF USERS DO NOT KNOW IT HAS UPDATED. FURTHER, ANY CONTENT, WHETHER INFORMATIVE OR DECORATIVE THAT blinks or moves creates a significant accessibility barrier for some users with cognitive, learning, and other disabilities."
15:20:34 [Andi]
WCAG approved: Note: While the success criteria uses the term "information", the WCAG 2.0 INTENT section makes it clear that this is to be applied to all content. Any content, whether informative or decorative, that IS UPDATED AUTOMATICALLY MAY CREATE AN ACCESSIBILITY BARRIER IF USERS DO NOT KNOW IT HAS UPDATED. FURTHER, ANY CONTENT, WHETHER INFORMATIVE OR DECORATIVE THAT blinks or moves
15:20:34 [Andi]
creates a significant accessibility barrier for some users with cognitive, learning, and other disabilities."
15:20:38 [MaryJo]
AS: The WCAG changes to our proposed text seems editorial. Only the second sentence was changed.
15:20:41 [Loic]
q+
15:20:45 [korn]
q-
15:21:00 [MaryJo]
GV: It added back the aspect about 'automatically updating'.
15:21:37 [Andi]
ack loic
15:21:55 [MaryJo]
Loic: The explanation for the user to know about updating information is not covered by this SC. This SC is about user control over the updating content.
15:22:59 [Loic]
Any content, wether informative or decorative, that is updated automatically, blinks or moves creates a significant accessibility barrier...
15:23:10 [Andi]
Note: While the success criteria uses the term "information", the WCAG 2.0 INTENT section makes it clear that this is to be applied to all content. Any content, whether informative or decorative, that IS UPDATED AUTOMATICALLY, BLINKS OR MOVES MAY CREATE AN ACCESSIBILITY BARRIER.
15:23:21 [MaryJo]
GV: Agrees with Loic's suggestion.
15:23:58 [MaryJo]
RESOLUTION: Send edits proposed in meeting for 2.2.2 to WCAG.
15:25:34 [Mike]
q+
15:25:57 [Andi]
Conditionally accepted by WCAG: 2.2.1, 3.2.1, 3.2.2, 3.3.4, 4.1.2
15:26:00 [Andi]
ack mike
15:26:06 [Andi]
q+ Al_Hoffman
15:26:14 [MaryJo]
GV: WCAG group found some situations where our criteria could be met, but content would still fail the SC.
15:26:28 [Loic]
q+
15:27:10 [MaryJo]
AS: WCAG wants us to remove the exception we had for documents that can automatically comply.
15:27:17 [Andi]
ack al
15:28:06 [MaryJo]
Loic: We may need to look at all of these SC to make sure it makes sense with the sentence removed.
15:28:32 [korn]
q+
15:28:42 [Andi]
action: Andi to check these five success criteria (2.2.1, 3.2.1, 3.2.2, 3.3.4, 4.1.2) to make sure documents are still covered if we drop the sentence.
15:28:43 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-29 - Check these five success criteria (2.2.1, 3.2.1, 3.2.2, 3.3.4, 4.1.2) to make sure documents are still covered if we drop the sentence. [on Andi Snow-Weaver - due 2012-07-17].
15:28:52 [Andi]
ack loic
15:29:06 [Andi]
ack korn
15:29:19 [korn]
+1
15:29:23 [MaryJo]
PK: Did go through the SC and it did make sense, but agrees that Andi should take a 2nd look.
15:31:02 [MaryJo]
Al: Proposes that an example is added to each one of these.
15:31:29 [MaryJo]
Al: These examples can be added after our first draft is complete.
15:31:32 [BBailey]
q+
15:32:08 [Andi]
action: Andi to work with Gregg and Peter to gather examples provided by WCAG for 2.2.1, 3.2.1, 3.2.2, 3.3.4, 4.1.2 and draft examples to add after first public working draft
15:32:08 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-30 - Work with Gregg and Peter to gather examples provided by WCAG for 2.2.1, 3.2.1, 3.2.2, 3.3.4, 4.1.2 and draft examples to add after first public working draft [on Andi Snow-Weaver - due 2012-07-17].
15:33:37 [MaryJo]
Al: Doesn't want to remove useful guidance if the examples are obscure.
15:33:44 [korn]
q+
15:33:56 [BBailey]
q-
15:34:37 [MaryJo]
GV: Could add 'Except for unusual cases such as...' and then give the guidance we have.
15:35:15 [korn]
I'm sorry, but I have to leave now - we are over the meeting time and I have another thing I need to go to.
15:35:35 [MaryJo]
GV: Or edit our text with something like: "For pages that are nothing but text and simple hypertext links..."
15:35:41 [korn]
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15:37:15 [MaryJo]
RESOLUTION: Accept WCAG proposed edits for 2.2.1, 3.2.1, 3.2.2, 3.3.4, 4.1.2 and work on examples later.
15:37:41 [Zakim]
-Al_Hoffman
15:37:52 [Zakim]
-Alex_Li
15:37:54 [Zakim]
-Mary_Jo_Mueller
15:37:55 [Zakim]
-Mike_Pluke
15:37:55 [Zakim]
-Andi_Snow_Weaver
15:37:56 [janina]
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15:37:58 [Zakim]
-David_MacDonald
15:38:00 [Andi]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:38:00 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/10-wcag2ict-minutes.html Andi
15:38:01 [Zakim]
-Bruce_Bailey
15:38:03 [Zakim]
-Janina_Sajka
15:38:06 [Zakim]
-Loïc_Martínez_Normand
15:38:07 [Zakim]
-Gregg_Vanderheiden
15:38:08 [Zakim]
-Kiran_Keja
15:38:27 [Andi]
zakim, bye
15:38:27 [Zakim]
leaving. As of this point the attendees were Andi_Snow_Weaver, Gregg_Vanderheiden, Cooper, Peter, David_MacDonald, Peter_Korn, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Loïc_Martínez_Normand,
15:38:27 [Zakim]
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15:38:30 [Zakim]
... Kiran_Keja, Alex_Li, Bruce_Bailey, Mike_Pluke, Al_Hoffman, Janina_Sajka
15:38:34 [Andi]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:38:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/10-wcag2ict-minutes.html Andi
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