15:53:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-techs-tf
15:53:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/07/09-html-techs-tf-irc
15:53:21 <Joshue108> zakim, this will be 9224
15:53:21 <Zakim> ok, Joshue108; I see WAI_HTML TT()11:30AM scheduled to start 23 minutes ago
15:53:29 <Joshue108> rrsagent, make log world
15:53:47 <Joshue108> Meeting: HTML Techniques Task Force
15:53:57 <Joshue108> Chair: James Nurthen
15:54:11 <Joshue108> Agenda +
15:54:11 <Joshue108> * https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/techstfJuly92012/
15:58:03 <Zakim> WAI_HTML TT()11:30AM has now started
15:58:09 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:58:18 <Joshue108> zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
15:58:18 <Zakim> +Joshue; got it
16:00:43 <jnurthen> jnurthen has joined #html-techs-tf
16:02:40 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
16:02:48 <Zakim> +Jon_Gunderson
16:02:51 <jnurthen> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:02:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see Joshue, James_Nurthen, Jon_Gunderson
16:05:38 <Zakim> +Marc_Johlic
16:05:49 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #html-techs-tf
16:07:28 <Joshue108> scribenick: Joshue
16:09:34 <Joshue108> JonG: I am happy to go a technique, like a checkbox with mixed states.
16:09:47 <Joshue108> JN: Which guideline is that?
16:09:55 <Joshue108> JonG: Prob 4.1.2
16:10:54 <Joshue108> JOC: Thats great.
16:11:05 <Joshue108> zakim, take up item 1
16:11:05 <Zakim> agendum 1. "* https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/html-techs-28-June-2012/" taken up [from Joshue108]
16:11:21 <Joshue108> The group goes thru the techniques.
16:12:06 <Joshue108> JN: I think we need more simple generic techs, and then some more specific examples for widgets as needed.
16:12:40 <Joshue108> JonG: Its fine if we point to full working examples.
16:12:50 <Joshue108> JN: Do they need to be more detailed or is this ok?
16:13:04 <Joshue108> JonG: Full techs can be complicated.
16:13:08 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
16:13:08 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:13:50 <Joshue108> JonG: Are you going to replicate the authors guide?
16:13:52 <Joshue108> Jn: No.
16:14:28 <Joshue108> JN: We will try to focus them down, thats what Loretta has done.
16:15:19 <Joshue108> JonG: One of the practical things is that people can use libraries, for eg in the techniques doc.
16:15:45 <Joshue108> JN: But then they may not need to know the techniques then?
16:16:53 <Joshue108> JonG: The techniques doc may want to cover some of the considerations, such as dynamic menus that have three approaches. The techniques doc should show advantage and disadvantages etc.
16:17:27 <Joshue108> JonG: Some of the hotbutton issues for me are dynamic menus, hide/show panels and form controls for error feedeback.
16:17:39 <Joshue108> JN: We have a place for that in WCAG etc.
16:18:52 <Joshue108> JonG: The other issue is HTML5..
16:19:30 <Joshue108> JN: Menus sound like 4.1 to me, a tech for menus if you could do one that would be great.
16:19:42 <Joshue108> zakim, unmute me
16:19:42 <Zakim> Joshue should no longer be muted
16:21:39 <Joshue108> JN: There may be more detailed examples for widget types where there are scope for confusion.
16:21:49 <Joshue108> +1
16:23:05 <Joshue108> JOC: I'd like to hear from Jon has to say about the different approaches to dynamic markup of content using ARIA.
16:23:18 <Joshue108> JN: Lets get to that after discussing tech.
16:23:26 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
16:23:26 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:23:47 <Joshue108> JonG: On my comment, maybe it is ok.
16:24:32 <Joshue108> <discssion on use of image role="button"
16:24:42 <Joshue108> s/discssion/discussion
16:27:04 <Joshue108> <discussion on Image Sprites, and its a11y issues>
16:27:28 <Joshue108> JonG: We could have a discussion on how ARIA could be used to make Sprites accessible?
16:27:53 <Joshue108> JN: This could be a good CSS tech, how to do sprites in accessible manner?
16:28:09 <Joshue108> s/manner?/manner
16:29:25 <Joshue108> zakim, unmute me
16:29:25 <Zakim> Joshue should no longer be muted
16:34:10 <Joshue108> ACTION, James to draft technique tech for where native controls are preferable to ARIA annotations
16:34:19 <Joshue108> ACTION: James to draft technique tech for where native controls are preferable to ARIA annotations
16:34:37 <Joshue108> s/tech/text
16:35:00 <jongunderson> jongunderson has joined #html-techs-tf
16:39:05 <Joshue108> ACTION: Josh to AT test Toolbar example in "Using a WAI-ARIA role to expose the role of a user interface component" tech
16:48:14 <Joshue108> JN: Why does the example 'Example 1:A simple toolbar' reference a menubar?
16:49:13 <Joshue108> JN: ANy other comments on example 2?
16:49:57 <Joshue108> JOC: Example 2 is simple and clean, should be fine.
16:50:07 <Joshue108> JonG tidies up Example 1.
16:50:51 <Joshue108> JN: We need to log a bug on the Authoring practices doc.
16:51:52 <Zakim> -Jon_Gunderson
16:56:33 <Zakim> -James_Nurthen
16:56:35 <Zakim> -Marc_Johlic
16:56:35 <Zakim> WAI_HTML TT()11:30AM has ended
16:56:35 <Zakim> Attendees were Joshue, James_Nurthen, Jon_Gunderson, Marc_Johlic
16:56:41 <Joshue108> rrsagent, make minutes
16:56:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/09-html-techs-tf-minutes.html Joshue108