13:58:01 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag2ict
13:58:01 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2012/07/06-wcag2ict-irc
13:58:03 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:58:03 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #wcag2ict
13:58:05 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2428
13:58:05 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
13:58:06 <trackbot> Meeting: WCAG2ICT Task Force Teleconference
13:58:06 <trackbot> Date: 06 July 2012
13:59:11 <MichaelC> agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag2ict-tf/2012Jul/0006.html
13:59:17 <MichaelC> regrets: David_MacDonald
13:59:38 <MichaelC> chair: Mike_Pluke
13:59:51 <Andi> Andi has joined #wcag2ict
13:59:55 <Mike> Mike has joined #wcag2ict
14:00:08 <MichaelC> agenda+ Action items review <http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG2ICT-TF/track/>
14:00:09 <MichaelC> agenda+ Survey for 6th July <https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/JUL062012/results>
14:00:11 <MichaelC> agenda+ Confirm next meeting time; action items;
14:00:22 <Zakim> +Andi_Snow-Weaver
14:00:27 <Loic> Loic has joined #wcag2ict
14:00:44 <Zakim> +??P3
14:00:45 <Andi> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:00:45 <Zakim> On the phone I see Kiran_Keja, Cooper, Andi_Snow-Weaver, ??P3
14:01:00 <Zakim> +??P5
14:01:10 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P3 is Mike_Pluke
14:01:10 <Zakim> +Mike_Pluke; got it
14:01:20 <MaryJo> MaryJo has joined #WCAG2ICT
14:01:23 <Zakim> +Judy
14:01:37 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
14:01:45 <Zakim> +Mary_Jo_Mueller
14:01:50 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P5 is Loïc_Martínez
14:01:50 <Zakim> +Loïc_Martínez; got it
14:02:03 <Zakim> +Bruce_Bailey
14:02:13 <MichaelC> zakim, Microsoft is Alex_Li
14:02:13 <Zakim> +Alex_Li; got it
14:02:32 <alex> alex has joined #wcag2ict
14:02:32 <korn> korn has joined #wcag2ict
14:03:32 <Andi> regrets: David_MacDonald
14:03:46 <Zakim> +[Oracle]
14:03:58 <korn> Zakim, Oracle has Peter_Korn
14:03:58 <Zakim> +Peter_Korn; got it
14:04:31 <MichaelC> agenda?
14:05:05 <Andi> scribe: Andi
14:05:42 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
14:05:42 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Action items review <http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG2ICT-TF/track/>" taken up [from MichaelC]
14:06:06 <Zakim> +Pierce
14:06:36 <Zakim> +Shadi
14:06:41 <Andi> action-22?
14:06:41 <trackbot> ACTION-22 -- Gregg Vanderheiden to work with Pierce, Al, David, Loïc, Alex to draft proposal for 2.4.5 -- due 2012-07-06 -- OPEN
14:06:41 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG2ICT-TF/track/actions/22
14:06:43 <shadi> zakim, mute me
14:06:43 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
14:06:58 <Andi> no progress on action-22 yet
14:07:14 <Andi> action-23?
14:07:14 <trackbot> ACTION-23 -- Gregg Vanderheiden to ask WCAG WG to modify intent for 1.3.1 per proposal #2 -- due 2012-07-06 -- OPEN
14:07:14 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG2ICT-TF/track/actions/23
14:08:00 <Andi> AS: WCAG did agree to modify intent although slightly differently than we proposed
14:08:22 <Andi> AS: Andi will get the resolution from the WCAG minutes and include it in the action
14:08:30 <Andi> action-24?
14:08:30 <trackbot> ACTION-24 -- Gregg Vanderheiden to work Loïc, Mike, David, Andi to work on definition of "interaction context" -- due 2012-07-06 -- OPEN
14:08:30 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG2ICT-TF/track/actions/24
14:08:36 <MichaelC> action-23: see http://www.w3.org/2012/07/05-wai-wcag-minutes.html#item02
14:08:36 <trackbot> ACTION-23 Ask WCAG WG to modify intent for 1.3.1 per proposal #2 notes added
14:08:44 <Loic> q+
14:09:19 <Loic> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/home/introduction-to-wcag2ict-application-note/context-of-interaction
14:09:24 <Zakim> -Shadi
14:09:24 <Andi> LM: group has had many e-mails - seems to be converging on a definition
14:09:47 <Andi> LM: haven't yet officially agreed - not yet sure it has resolved all of the issues
14:09:51 <korn> q+
14:10:17 <MichaelC> ack l
14:10:30 <Andi> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:10:30 <Zakim> On the phone I see Kiran_Keja, Cooper, Andi_Snow-Weaver, Mike_Pluke, Loïc_Martínez, Judy, Alex_Li, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Bruce_Bailey, [Oracle], Pierce
14:10:32 <Zakim> [Oracle] has Peter_Korn
14:10:54 <Andi> ack korn
14:12:01 <Andi> PK: comments to group working on "interaction context" definition - make sure it covers toolbar windows which behave a little differently
14:12:17 <Andi> action-26?
14:12:17 <trackbot> ACTION-26 -- Peter Korn to draft new proposal for 2.4.2 to try to address Loic's suggestion -- due 2012-07-10 -- OPEN
14:12:17 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/WCAG2ICT-TF/track/actions/26
14:12:26 <korn> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/home/2-operable/24-provide-ways-to-help-users-navigate-find-content-and-determine-where-they-are/242-page-titled
14:12:38 <Andi> PK: have a proposal ready for survey (#4)
14:12:49 <Andi> zakim, next item
14:12:49 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Survey for 6th July <https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/55145/JUL062012/results>" taken up [from MichaelC]
14:13:00 <Judy> q+
14:13:07 <alex> alex has joined #wcag2ict
14:13:16 <Andi> topic: Frontmatter for WCAG2ICT
14:15:02 <Andi> JB: to Bruce's comment about linking to editor's draft of "Understanding WCAG 2.0" - will be adding more links, including this one
14:19:27 <korn> q+
14:19:35 <alex> q+
14:19:39 <Judy> ack j
14:19:48 <Andi> JB: think we should accept Peter's suggested changes to the TOC
14:20:08 <Andi> ack korn
14:20:37 <Mike> q+
14:20:43 <Andi> JB: to Alex's comment, "reinterpreting" might be out of scope per our charter
14:21:07 <korn> q-
14:21:28 <Andi> PK: agree with the point Alex is making, think we should take this, and a few other issues that have come up, to WCAG and ask for a change to our task force statement
14:22:08 <Andi> ack alex
14:22:45 <BBailey> BBailey has joined #wcag2ict
14:23:01 <Andi> MP: have several cases where we have not been able to see how something would apply
14:23:12 <Andi> q+
14:23:15 <Andi> ack mike
14:23:19 <Judy> q+
14:24:02 <Andi> ack andi
14:24:10 <Andi> ack judy
14:24:27 <Andi> AS: +1 to PK's comment
14:25:39 <Andi> JB: recommend going with Peter's suggested re-wording
14:26:27 <Andi> RESOLUTION: accept grammatical edits and Peter's edit to Frontmatter
14:26:31 <alex> q+
14:26:51 <korn> q+
14:27:03 <Andi> ack alex
14:28:05 <Andi> ack korn
14:28:17 <Bruce_Bailey> Bruce_Bailey has joined #wcag2ict
14:28:29 <Judy> q+
14:28:34 <Andi> AL: request proposed language about "reinterpreting WCAG" be sent to WCAG working group
14:29:10 <Andi> PK: think language needs work, think it would be more effective if we collect all of the issues before going to WCAG WG
14:31:07 <alex> q+
14:31:20 <Andi> JB: think the proposal changes the meaning significantly - like the idea of batching the issues together
14:31:21 <Judy> ack j
14:31:22 <Andi> ack judy
14:31:26 <Andi> ack alex
14:32:01 <Judy> s/changes the meaning/would change the meaning/
14:32:41 <Judy> s/batching the issues/batching potential work statement changes/
14:32:45 <Judy> q+
14:32:46 <Andi> AL: okay if we can keep it on the table as something to be surveyed at a later point in time
14:33:01 <korn> q+
14:33:30 <Andi> ack judy
14:33:56 <Andi> MP: suggest a page on the wiki to collect the items
14:34:21 <Andi> ack korn
14:35:30 <Andi> PK: suggest a page on "potential issues with the WCAG2ICT TF work statement to bring to WCAG working group" ahead of the project plan
14:35:59 <Andi> topic: Meaningful Sequence (1.3.2)
14:37:06 <korn> q+
14:37:46 <Andi> ack korn
14:38:14 <Andi> PK: do like the shorter text proposed by Loïc
14:38:44 <Andi> PK: think we should hold off on a final defintion of "content" because it's so cross-cutting
14:39:30 <Andi> PK: use what's been suggested here with a note to ourselves to come back and revisit this one once we have a definition of content
14:39:50 <Andi> q+
14:41:13 <Andi> ack andi
14:41:49 <korn> q+
14:43:14 <Andi> PC: in documents, vital information is often presented in a place that is not in the focus order (example, watermark that says "Do not redistribute")
14:44:23 <Andi> PC: other issue is how to deal with headers and footers - are they allowed to interrupt the flow of the page text, etc.
14:44:26 <Andi> ack korn
14:45:00 <Andi> PK: think this is better addressed by a modification to WCAG 2.0 intent 
14:45:35 <Andi> PK: the reading sequence has to cover everything
14:47:31 <Andi> action: Pierce to work with Peter to draft proposal for modification to 1.3.2 intent to cover the issue of content that is not read automatically
14:47:31 <trackbot> Created ACTION-27 - Work with Peter to draft proposal for modification to 1.3.2 intent to cover the issue of content that is not read automatically [on Pierce Crowell - due 2012-07-13].
14:47:41 <Zakim> -Kiran_Keja
14:49:01 <Andi> This applies directly as written, and as described in  INTENT  from Understanding WCAG 2.0  (above)  where content is interpreted to mean "information and sensory experience to be communicated to the user by means of ICT"
14:49:06 <shadi> zakim, mute me
14:49:06 <Zakim> sorry, shadi, I do not know which phone connection belongs to you
14:49:07 <Zakim> +Shadi
14:49:09 <shadi> zakim, mute me
14:49:09 <Zakim> Shadi should now be muted
14:50:19 <Andi> RESOLUTION: Accept 1.3.2 as amended 'This applies directly as written, and as described in  INTENT  from Understanding WCAG 2.0  (above)  where content is interpreted to mean "information and sensory experience to be communicated to the user by means of ICT" ' and including the three note bullets proposed by Gregg.
14:50:37 <Andi> topic: Audio Control (1.4.2)
14:50:52 <Zakim> +Kiran_Keja
14:50:54 <Andi> zakim, who is making noise?
14:50:57 <korn> Zakim, who is talking?
14:51:08 <Zakim> Andi, listening for 13 seconds I heard sound from the following: Mike_Pluke (4%)
14:51:10 <Zakim> -Kiran_Keja
14:51:11 <Zakim> -Pierce
14:51:18 <Judy> zakim, who's on the phone?
14:51:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see Cooper, Andi_Snow-Weaver, Mike_Pluke, Loïc_Martínez, Judy, Alex_Li, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Bruce_Bailey, [Oracle], Shadi (muted)
14:51:20 <Zakim> [Oracle] has Peter_Korn
14:51:20 <Zakim> korn, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Andi_Snow-Weaver (5%), Mike_Pluke (50%)
14:51:55 <Zakim> +Kiran_Keja
14:52:36 <Kiran> Sorry, I got disconnected and had to call back in
14:54:37 <Andi> s/Sorry, I got disconnected and had to call back in//
14:55:35 <Loic> q+
14:56:00 <Andi> MP: notes Andi's proposal to address the issues
14:56:28 <Mike> q+
14:56:32 <Andi> LM: would like to see this split into separat sentences for electronic documents and software user interface
14:56:42 <Andi> LM: really like the "software user interface" words
14:56:45 <Andi> ack Loic
14:56:57 <Andi> ack Mike
14:57:00 <Andi> q+
14:57:36 <korn> q+
14:57:47 <BBailey> q+ to remind folks that Access Board tried this with 2010 ANPRM
14:58:04 <Andi> ack andi
14:58:11 <Andi> ack korn
14:59:04 <Andi> AS: if we separate them, we have to define the terms and so far we have not been able to agree on that - suggest keeping them together for now and revisiting definitions later 
14:59:27 <Andi> PK: agree but for a different reason - this applies everywhere so keeping them together reenforces that point
14:59:45 <Andi> BB: Access Board tried to separate these in 2010 ANPRM with no luck
14:59:46 <janina> janina has joined #wcag2ict
15:00:22 <Andi> 'This applies directly as written, and as described in INTENT from Understanding WCAG 2.0 (above) replacing "web page" with "electronic document or software user interface" and " any content" with " any part of an electronic document or software user interface".'
15:01:20 <Andi> RESOLUTION: Accept 1.4.2 as amended: 'This applies directly as written, and as described in INTENT from Understanding WCAG 2.0 (above) replacing "web page" with "electronic document or software user interface" and " any content" with " any part of an electronic document or software user interface".'
15:01:22 <Zakim> +??P4
15:01:22 <Loic> q+
15:01:23 <alex> q+
15:01:28 <Andi> ack bb
15:01:28 <Zakim> BBailey, you wanted to remind folks that Access Board tried this with 2010 ANPRM
15:01:39 <Andi> ack loic
15:01:56 <Andi> q+
15:01:57 <korn> q+
15:02:22 <Andi> LM: prefer "software user interface" to other "software" terms we have used for other SC
15:02:24 <Andi> ack alex
15:02:45 <janina> zakim, ??P4 is Janina_Sajka
15:02:45 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
15:02:49 <janina> zakim, mute me
15:02:49 <Zakim> Janina_Sajka should now be muted
15:05:41 <janina> q+
15:06:17 <janina> zakim, unmute me
15:06:17 <Zakim> Janina_Sajka should no longer be muted
15:06:29 <Andi> AL: assumption of multi-tasking environment with a screen reader - not the case in all ICT
15:06:41 <Mike> q+
15:08:06 <Andi> ack andi
15:08:13 <Andi> ack korn
15:08:52 <Judy> q+
15:08:57 <Judy> q?
15:09:16 <Andi> AS: to Loïc's point about replacing all variations of "software something" with "software user interface", agree that we need to re-examine and consider whether it's appropriate to do that
15:10:07 <Andi> PK: +1 to Andi's comment but think it would be okay to publish with different terms with an editorial note - perhaps get feedback
15:10:18 <alex> q+
15:11:00 <Andi> PK: also think we need a note on this and some other SC about platforms that automatically do this for built-in AT
15:11:42 <Andi> JS: disagrees that there are cases where the audio should not have to be paused
15:12:00 <Andi> AL: example of PA system with audio announcement to evacuate the building
15:12:15 <Andi> MP: addressed in M376 - closed products - emergency situation
15:12:17 <Andi> ack janina
15:12:19 <Andi> ack mike
15:12:26 <janina> zakim, mute me
15:12:26 <Zakim> Janina_Sajka should now be muted
15:12:39 <Andi> ack judy
15:12:49 <alex> q-
15:13:06 <korn> q+
15:14:01 <Andi> JB: to Peter's suggestion about not unifying terms for this first public draft - concern that it will affect understanding - prefer that we try to unify before publishing
15:14:08 <Andi> ack korn
15:14:53 <Mike> Q+
15:15:12 <Andi> PK: as time goes on, we are coming up with language we like better - should continue to do this until we get to the end of the SC before we go back and revisit any SC
15:15:20 <Andi> ack mike
15:16:31 <korn> q+
15:16:33 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
15:16:57 <Andi> MP: M376 has used "software that has a user interface" - so this might be one we could go and do the revisiting on
15:17:24 <Zakim> +??P4
15:17:33 <Andi> PK: suggest a bulleted list of the tasks we need to do before publish July draft and put this one on it
15:17:44 <janina> zakim, ??P4 is Janina_Sajka
15:17:44 <Zakim> +Janina_Sajka; got it
15:17:56 <janina> zakim, mute me
15:17:56 <Zakim> Janina_Sajka should now be muted
15:18:24 <Andi> action: Andi to start a list of tasks that have to be done prior to publication
15:18:24 <trackbot> Created ACTION-28 - Start a list of tasks that have to be done prior to publication [on Andi Snow-Weaver - due 2012-07-13].
15:19:05 <Andi> topic: Bypass Blocks (2.4.1)
15:19:22 <Andi> MP: defer this one for now due to high number of "do not accept" responses
15:19:40 <Andi> topic: Focus Order (2.4.3)
15:20:44 <Andi> This applies directly as written, and as described in  INTENT  from Understanding WCAG 2.0  (above)  where "Web Page" is interpreted to mean "Electronic Document or Software User Interface" 
15:20:49 <Loic> q+
15:21:14 <korn> q-
15:21:32 <korn> q+
15:21:38 <Andi> ack loic
15:21:52 <Andi> LM: +1 to Andi's edit
15:22:14 <Andi> AS: also keep the Note with three bullets
15:23:05 <Andi> RESOLUTION: Accept 2.4.3 as amended: 'This applies directly as written, and as described in INTENT from Understanding WCAG 2.0 (above) replacing "web page" with "electronic document or software user interface".'
15:23:22 <korn> q+
15:23:25 <Andi> topic: Consistent Navigation (3.2.3)
15:23:47 <korn> q-
15:23:51 <Andi> MP: defer this one for now due to high number of "do not accept" responses
15:24:06 <Andi> PK: encourage people who wanted to accept to consider Peter's edit
15:24:20 <Andi> topic: Consistent Identification (3.2.4)
15:24:29 <korn> q+
15:24:52 <Andi> q+
15:25:58 <Andi> PK: +1 to Andi's text - a little trickier because this one refers to "set of web pages"
15:26:04 <korn> q-
15:26:20 <Loic> q+
15:27:18 <Andi> ack andi
15:27:53 <Andi> LM: substitute "a set of web pages" with "an electronic document or a softare user interface"
15:28:07 <Andi> This applies directly as written, and as described in INTENT from Understanding WCAG 2.0 (above) with “electronic document or software user interface” substituted for "set of Web Pages".
15:28:25 <BBailey> q+
15:28:30 <Andi> ack loic
15:28:47 <Andi> This applies directly as written, and as described in INTENT from Understanding WCAG 2.0 (above) with " an electronic document or a software user interface" substituted for "a set of Web Pages".
15:29:58 <korn> Success Criteria 3.2.4: Components that have the same functionality within [an electronic document or software user interface] are identified consistently.
15:30:57 <Andi> RESOLUTION: Accept 3.2.4 as amended: This applies directly as written, and as described in INTENT from Understanding WCAG 2.0 (above) with " an electronic document or a software user interface" substituted for "a set of Web Pages".
15:31:24 <korn> q+
15:31:31 <BBailey> q-
15:31:50 <Andi> ack korn
15:31:53 <korn> https://sites.google.com/site/wcag2ict/home/2-operable/24-provide-ways-to-help-users-navigate-find-content-and-determine-where-they-are/242-page-titled
15:32:48 <Zakim> -Janina_Sajka
15:32:50 <Zakim> -Alex_Li
15:32:51 <Zakim> -[Oracle]
15:32:51 <Zakim> -Kiran_Keja
15:32:52 <Zakim> -Andi_Snow-Weaver
15:32:53 <Zakim> -Judy
15:32:54 <Zakim> -Cooper
15:32:54 <Zakim> -Loïc_Martínez
15:32:55 <Zakim> -Shadi
15:32:57 <Zakim> -Mary_Jo_Mueller
15:32:59 <Andi> rrsagent, make minutes
15:32:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/06-wcag2ict-minutes.html Andi
15:32:59 <Zakim> -Bruce_Bailey
15:32:59 <janina> janina has left #wcag2ict
15:33:01 <Zakim> -Mike_Pluke
15:33:02 <korn> korn has left #wcag2ict
15:33:03 <Zakim> WAI_(WCAG2ICT)10:00AM has ended
15:33:05 <Zakim> Attendees were Kiran_Keja, Cooper, Andi_Snow-Weaver, Mike_Pluke, Judy, Mary_Jo_Mueller, Loïc_Martínez, Bruce_Bailey, Alex_Li, Peter_Korn, Pierce, Shadi, Janina_Sajka
15:33:16 <Andi> zakim, bye
15:33:16 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wcag2ict
15:33:24 <Andi> rrsagent, make minutes
15:33:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/06-wcag2ict-minutes.html Andi
15:36:28 <BBailey> BBailey has joined #wcag2ict
15:39:35 <Andi> s/separat sentences/separate sentences/
15:41:44 <Andi> s/could go and do the revisiting on/could go ahead and look at/
15:42:23 <Andi> rrsagent, make minutes
15:42:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/06-wcag2ict-minutes.html Andi
15:43:46 <Andi> s/a little trickier because this one refers to "set of web pages"/but think it works fine in this case/
15:43:49 <Andi> rrsagent, make minutes
15:43:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2012/07/06-wcag2ict-minutes.html Andi